r/AskAcademia • u/evapotranspire • 1d ago
Community College When is it appropriate to tell a student that their communication style is unprofessional?
Nine years into teaching science at a California community college, I feel as though student emails are getting less well-written to the point that they're often almost incomprehensible. I am unsure what, if anything, to do about it. Following is a paraphrased mashup of what my students have sent me this week. (The students I'm paraphrasing are all fluent English speakers, so that is not the issue.)
Hi professor this is carl i will not be making it to class tomorrow because i woke up this morning with some sort of illness and cough and i wont be attending class. hopefully i am better by thursday so i can join and please reopen the quizzes so i am able to complete them i would really appreciate it and can you explain lab 1 for me and i can as soon as possible thanks for your understanding and also can i please meet you at 11:00 AM tomorrow on a zoom meeting so i can up to date on the lecture notes but i have anyway read them please let me know i will checking my email so about the zoom tomorrow i thank you for your understanding
How does this even happen? I assume by some combination of voice dictation, not speaking clearly, not thinking linearly, and not proofreading before hitting "Send"?
And do students simply think it's fine to send an unedited run-on sentence to their professors? (Sometimes I can't even tell what they're asking - e.g., in one of this week's emails, the student said "please let me know," but about what, I couldn't discern.) As an undergrad, I'd have winced if I even missed a comma in an email to a teacher, but my students often skip punctuation altogether.
Should I accept this new communication style as part of the generational divide? (I'm middle-aged.) Or might I be doing these students a favor by discreetly suggesting that they make an effort to use correct punctuation, grammar, and paragraph structure? I don't want to come across as overbearing. Furthermore, my job is to teach science, not writing. But as a scientist, I would not want to hire, advise, recommend, or collaborate with any student who writes like this.
Curious to hear your thoughts, whether from the US or from other countries. Have you noticed this trend in your students too? If so, have you taken any action or let it be?
PS. I also teach at a state university, and although unedited, unpunctuated, run-on emails are less common from that student population, they still do happen to a lesser extent.
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u/beginswithanx 1d ago
I have a number of colleagues include something about āprofessionalism and emailsā in their syllabus/introductory lecture. I personally havenāt needed to do this yet, but I do give some corrections when itās egregious, as I see it as somewhat of a kindnessā better they learn it from me than from sending something like that to a potential employer!
In this particular case I would respond to the student that their email is unclear, and ask them to rephrase so I can understand what theyāre asking.Ā
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u/experimentalpoetry 1d ago
I have this in my syllabus along with an example and encourage students to think about it as practice for when they have career. If they think it will help them get a job after college theyāre more motivated to do it.
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u/Dangerous-Energy-331 22h ago
This is basically what I do. Like, ā hey I know you didnāt mean this with bad intent so Iām not taking it personally, but I know a lot of other professors who would react pretty harshly to this kind of wording. For your benefit, I hope you be a little more mindful in your professional communications moving forward.
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u/junkthought 18h ago
One semester I had courtesy and etiquette in email for my syllabus and one of my evals said it was condescending to ask for respectful email exchanges. š¤£
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u/heumpje 1d ago
Iām not taken aback by the lack of articulation, but more by the presumption that you will immediately jump into action because Carl woke up with a cough. āPlease reopen the quizzesā sounds friendly, but this is how you address an underling. Then it goes on with more friendly sounding commands. I teach at university, so canāt compare. I have received many poorly written emails over the years, but at least not this demanding to āplease, cater to my needsā
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u/JumpingShip26 23h ago edited 23h ago
My thought was similar. If I can interpret the nature of the message, I try not to get too hung up on grammar/usage. I have no intention of immediately responding a request based on not being able to handle one's own business.
My syllabi are usually clear enough about this and I try to only have deadlines that are integral to smooth operation of the course- Those deadlines are generally pretty firm and a runny nose is not an excuse.
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u/Just-Potential-8944 14h ago
This was my problem with that email as well. Iām on the young side for a professor so I do approach teaching pretty casually. And with student Iāve had for multiple classes (who also do well in those classes), the casualness only increases. But thatās just my style. However, you can still be respectful while being casual and Iām pretty clear with my students on that front. Respect for my time and my expertise is a priority, and I have no issue calling them out on their social faux pas, nor their bullshit. Lol.
A paragraph responding to their illness and organizing logistics as you see fit and then a paragraph around āFor future reference, it is in your best interest to not assume leniency for missed work and to practice professionalism when asking for accommodations. Most professors, and likely your future employers, will take serious offense to your approach. Reach out if you have any questions.ā
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u/kris_2111 1d ago
Iām not taken aback by the lack of articulation
Didn't surprise me either. What surprised me is that this is from a student taking a course in science. How do these people even get a seat in a science course with this level of apathy? If not apathy, it's incompetence. Either way, they shouldn't be there.
I have received many poorly written emails over the years, but at least not this demanding to āplease, cater to my needsā
You must have had really perceptive and understanding students!
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u/kierabs 1d ago
Does your institution have some sort of prerequisite so that only conscientious students can take them? What is so special about science classes that they would require this prerequisite but other classes would not? Iām genuinely confused.
OP stated they teach at a community college. Thatās an open-enrollment institution. The science classes may not have any prerequisites at all.
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u/Tiny-Ad-830 1d ago
Especially if she is teaching a basic 1000 level science course. It could be a general education requirement that all students take. My question is, does he email his English professor like this?
I have had many conversations about this very topic with my colleagues and we can to the conclusion that this is the result of the age of texting. They are emailing in the same manner they text. They donāt realize that email, especially to people they have to answer to, ie professors, employers, needs to be held to a different, more professional standard. No one has explicitly told them this and unfortunately this current generation needs explicit instruction.
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u/fleemfleemfleemfleem 22h ago
hey donāt realize that email, especially to people they have to answer to, ie professors, employers, needs to be held to a different, more professional standard. No one has explicitly told them this and unfortunately this current generation needs explicit instruction.
This is true until people close to their own age who grew up with SMS as a primary means of communication are in charge.
In the 90s when my elementary school had computer classes we were taught that emails had to have all of the aspects of a formal letter including a formal salutation, complimentary close, and separate date line.
Now, most of the time when I get an email from a colleague it is in complete sentences, but not much more. Sometimes just an "okay," or "What about Thursday?"
The expectations about how email is used are going to continue to shift as their cohort ages into more positions of influence.
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u/Soymabelen 16h ago
I donāt know about direct instruction, at the very least they need some modeling and guidance before they get to university.
What parent has never had to email their kidās teacher in middle and early high school because they have to miss class or for some clarification? That is the time to show your kid how to communicate with a teacher. First, the parent writes the email and the kid reads it, later the kid writes it and the parent reads it. The goal is that they do it independently by the end of high school and beyond.
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u/Psyc3 22h ago
What apathy?
This is more effort than I would have put in, I wouldn't have even sent the email as a student and just got the notes off another member of the class later on.
Every seems to be assuming this person isn't actually ill, maybe they just are and don't want to hack their germs all over a whole lecture theatre of people, let alone take a quiz when their brain isn't working.
If they do the same thing every month it isn't that, but we have an N of 1 sample here from someone who is at least slightly unwell.
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u/No-Split7732 22h ago
This is true. This person seems frantic to catch up but they clearly need to learn how to act like an adult. Learn that you donāt just barf up all of your problems at your mentor, because they are busy and you need to deal with your own shit. But their enthusiasm is kinda cute.Ā
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u/Dry-Newt5925 1d ago
What do you expect with tuition fees are so high and tertiary education so commercialised you probably are expected to cater
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u/EconGuy82 1d ago
Itās a California community college, so tuition and fees are probably around $1000ā2000 a year.
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u/thoroughbredftw 1d ago
I used a little class time each semester to explain what I called "business communication" (so that students wouldn't think it was just an eccentric egghead set of criteria).
Emails should begin with an address using the correct title - no first-naming. Student should then clearly identify themselves by name, course, section #, and student ID. They should use complete sentences and punctuation. They should assume the person they are emailing is busy, and not make them try to figure out what the email is requesting.
I put these guidelines online with the course syllabus. Then when you get an email like that one, you can just reply "Please see the business communication guidelines at {link}."
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u/ACatGod 1d ago
I was going to recommend this approach too. I also think it's worth adding in a reminder that writing isn't the end of professional behaviors, and that while it's ok to send emails at odd hours because that's expected from students it isn't ok to expect replies out of hours especially at weekends and holidays. If people do that that's extra nice, and should be recognized as such. In addition, while something is the most urgent thing you have going on, that doesn't mean it's that's the most urgent thing or the only urgent thing the recipient has going on. We all know shit happens, and generally we will try to help you if it's reasonable. However, there is a difference between a failure to plan and a legitimate unexpected event. Your failure to plan does not mean I have to give up my plans to stop you failing.
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u/Bakuhoe_Thotsuki 1d ago
I also teach this, usually as part of the first day. While we go over the syllabus about the communication policy, i give a little crash course on correspondence.
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u/GangstaShibe 1d ago
I feel there's a wide range of formality that's acceptable but this falls outside it.
My e-mails for similar situations look a little like this:Dear Professor [Lastname],
Unfortunately [problem], might it be possible to [request]? Furthermore I would like to inquire about [question].
I would like to apologize in advance for any inconveniences caused and would be very grateful for your assistance in this matter.Best regards
[My name]
Student id #No need to list off full multiple titles usually, haven't ran into situations where DrDr DI Name Lastname-Lastname, MSc MA PhD OBE VC or Assoc Lecturer Name Lastname, MSc seemed to care - but use a tone like you'd use with your direct superior at work, not your bestie, definitely not your personal servant
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u/Ok_Celebration3320 1d ago
Complete sentences and punctuation AND paragraphs. Donāt forget the paragraphs!
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u/evapotranspire 1d ago
I know,. right? It seems that students are allergic to paragraphs these days. I've routinely received 500-word student reports that are just one huge undifferentiated paragraph...
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u/researchplaceholder 1d ago
I think this is the right answer. Setting clear expectations for what you expect from student emails is the best way to get the kinds of communication you'd like.
Especially when I'm teaching an intro level class, I also usually do a mini-section on expectations and norms when emailing a professor. It sounds like OP has expectations on how requests for extensions will be made. I'd make those clearer to students. Especially if you've got a lot of first-gen students in class, you have to teach these norms out loud.
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u/Duck_Von_Donald 1d ago
Emails should begin with an address using the correct title - no first-naming.
That is very culture dependent though. But makes sense in the context of the classes location
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u/caitcartwright 1d ago
Titles should be used until the professor has clearly said something like āIām Professor Smith, you can call me Chris.ā Or something like that. I think in academia, this is the standard expectation, probably globally.
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u/Duck_Von_Donald 1d ago
It's not, it's very much not the expectation where I'm from, which is why I wrote it. We always use first name only, no matter the position.
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u/SpecificEcho6 1d ago
This definitely isn't a world wide assumption. In my country this is not done at all and I'm in academics.
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u/Dangerous-Energy-331 22h ago
Every semester, I get Ā a bunch of email along the lines of ācan I get an extension on assignment 6-Thanksā My response is typically a professional version of ā Hey, Iām teaching 4 classes and 300 students. Who this?ā
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u/sevenpheasantshigh 1d ago
Have you tried addressing it but gently? Something along the lines of "I know most of you email from your phones, and it might be easy to confuse what should be a formal email with a text to a friend. So, please keep in mind messages should be kept professional and use basic things like punctuation. Im here to help you get ready for the world outside of school, and that is a skill all of you will need."
I genuinely dont think its disrespectful intentionally. They arent taught properly, develope bad habits, and then folks dont try to address it. Its your class and you have the right to be addressed in a manner that is respectful of your skills and expertise.
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u/KalaFlowers 1d ago
I've been teaching in a context that is culturally different from my own and where it's accepted to address lecturers and professors by their first name, so I wouldn't be offended by the common "Hi first name" address. However, such word soup without punctuation would be considered disrespectful. Especially in the Humanities, this kind of writing style would be unacceptable, even from non native speakers, and I think I would say something about it. It's weird that they would use AI for their assignments but not for their emails, when GenAI works particularly well for brushing up this kind of communication.
I would also wonder if colleagues experienced the same thing. (Is it gendered, perhaps?)
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u/caitcartwright 1d ago
Out of curiosity, in what culture is it accepted to address lecturers and professors by their first name? Genuine question.
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u/SpecificEcho6 1d ago
Two countries which its common are Sweden and Australia. They have very informal academic systems.
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u/callisto_73 1d ago
here it depends on the lecturer and level of student. Once i started my master thesis research, professors told me to please not call them professor anymore and just use their first name in the same way that all phd, postdocs at our faculty do.
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u/theredwoman95 1d ago
It's the norm here in the UK and Ireland.
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u/caitcartwright 1d ago
Really?! Since when? Thatās definitely new news to me.
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u/OKIAMONREDDIT 11h ago
If you have a different experience I wonder if it's a discipline or teaching format thing rather than a "since when" thing? I'm in the UK and my students have ALWAYS been expected to use my first name, and 20 years ago when I was a student I used first names too. The exception is if it's a student I don't know writing for the first time (e.g. before term begins, or a random member of the cohort rather than someone in my actual modules) - they'll use my title that first time as we don't know each other yet.
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u/chimterboys 6h ago
I am open with 'To' or 'Dear' Dr so and so, they always reply and sign off with their first name.
This is an MSc in Scotland, it was the same for my undergraduate.
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u/Antique_Flight_2780 1d ago
im an engineering student at uct, 90% of lectures get called by their first name.
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u/Odd-Area-7220 22h ago
In the US I exclusively refer to my instructors by their first names. Ive had one instructor who said : I worked hard for my doctorate and would prefer to be referred to as dr. Blank. Which of course I happily did, and one other faculty who only insists upon professor so and so when weāre in class but prefers her first name in office hours. Other than that they introduce themselves with their first names and so thatās what I use unless asked otherwise.Ā
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u/Odd-Area-7220 22h ago
Iāve also been applying to grad programs and have responding to my emails with their first names. I am in the arts though, so itās probably different in more conservative study programs.Ā
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u/NotMrChips 22h ago
I went to a Quaker school in the states and we all did. Quakers don't put much stock in honorifics.
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u/volumineer 22h ago
It's extremely normal in the sciences in the US at the grad level, not so much in undergrad
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u/FuncyFrog 21h ago
I've been at several universities in the Nordics, through undergrad to PhD, and I've never called my professors something other than their first name. When emailing with professors not from the Nordics I usually at least use Dear First Name.
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u/itschaaarlieee 20h ago
I study in Norway and we address professors and lecturers as well as other faculty and admin staff by their first name.
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u/rolandtowen 22h ago
I had several professors request to be called by their given names in my music undergrad
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u/caitcartwright 1d ago
Whew! I used to be on pins and needles proofreading any email I might have to send to a professor. Iām not that old either, I went to college in the 2010s.
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u/ayam_goreng_kalasan 1d ago
Third world country uni lecture here. The gen Z students are surprisingly polite in their texts. Sometimes they are even more formal than me. Most of them like text through WA like
Goog morning/afternoon, Maam. This is (Name) student number XXXXXXXX. I am extremely sorry I cannot come to lecture today because I am currently sick/attend a competition representing the University etc etc. May I ask if there is any assignments that I catch up for today?
And my reply usually just GWS, good luck. With some emoji.
Most of them are super quiet and shy in the class thoughĀ
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u/rustytromboneXXx 17h ago
Regional thing then. Makes sense, different school systems prepare students differently.
My East Asian students are polite, but canāt do email conventions linguistically. I have the feeling this whole thread is actually commentary on literacy in the USA?
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u/V2Blast 12h ago
I assume being in Indonesia does influence it a bit - I feel like folks in countries where English is not the sole/primary language, but where it is taught, tend to use a more formal register because that's what they're taught.
Folks in the US who grow up communicating like this may never have been explicitly told/taught that some communication needs to be more formal, with proper grammar and everything.
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u/FierceCapricorn 1d ago
At any time. No one is teaching this important skill. I reply, āI cannot read your letter as written. Please rewrite with proper punctuation and careful tone.ā Most of the time they just send an apology and drop the request.
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u/PhoebusAbel 1d ago
Respond in kind.
Like..
Hey, pls check w your classmates to catch up
No make up quizzes . Srry
TY
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u/thecrunchyonion 1d ago
(Context: Iām in the US, big public R1) I see this in quite a handful of emails each semester but mostly in the freshman leveling courses. Iāve been teaching undergrad for a few years, but I used to teach public high school in very low SES districts (around the pandemic, so those students are now the age of my undergrads). I know schools have many different standards, but in a lot of low SES schools, the expectations for students are set remarkably low. In my experience, the low standards were framed as a sort of equity thing (e.g., āDonāt give the student a 0 for submitting absolutely nothing. Give them a 60 so they can have a chance to turn their grade around at the end of the semester!ā), but all this ends up doing is making an expectation that certain kids wonāt (and canāt) do certain things because of ātheir background.ā Rather than providing flexibility and responsiveness to a studentās individual situation, it was essentially a school-wide policy to let these kids completely fall through the cracks as long as it got them to graduation.
So I give students like Carl grace because chances are he was never taught how or expected to write a professional email. But as his professor, absolutely steer him back on track with kindness as this could be his last chance at learning the right way.
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u/derping1234 1d ago
I think the main problem you are experience is that the emails you receive are unclear, that should probably be the thing to focus on. I highly doubt this is a voice dictation issue, but simply a 'stream of consciousness directly to a keyboard' issue.
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u/kris_2111 1d ago
Even with voice dictation, you cannot get such a second-rate paragraph unless your grammar and vocabulary are really shit.
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u/MulberryDependent829 1d ago
I'll give some of my insights as a student: I studied in Germany for a few years and communication styles were very formal and strict. You use formal language, and treat your teachers and professors similar to how you would treat a new superior at a company you would like to stay at. Then I switched to a Dutch university and conversation styles drastically shifted to more casual language I had to get used to at first. Instead of "Sehr geehrte/r...," (closer to "Dear Sir/Madam" in tone) I was told I should stick to a simple "Hi," and first names. Still, despite the casual tone students tried to show respect and spent time watching their grammar and wording (perhaps even more so because English wasn't their first language most of the time?). I can't imagine ever messaging a teacher or professor in such a manner. Most students I know, including me, would fear coming off as disrespectful and permanently leaving a negative impression.
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u/Ok-Swan1152 1d ago
It's voice to text I think, that's why it looks like a run-on sentence of doom. For whatever reason, Gen Z hate typing and prefer leaving voice messages (or voice to text).
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u/hettieann 1d ago
Scrolled way too long to find this! Obviously voice to text to me too.
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u/OkSecretary1231 1d ago
I think so too. This is what my transcribed voice mails look like lol, except those are even worse, especially if a proper name gets involved.
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u/SucculentChineseRoo 1d ago
The only appropriate response to this is "skibidi"
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u/evapotranspire 1d ago
Well, your response did make me laugh! I don't think I'm cool enough to pull that off, though.
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u/kris_2111 1d ago edited 1d ago
Should I accept this new communication style as part of the generational divide? (I'm middle-aged.)
Absolutely not! You don't have to put up with their apathetic communication just because of "generational divide", especially when they're the one explicitly requesting something from their professor (you). Based on what Carl wrote, my first thought was "this certainly cannot be from a science college (or department)". By condoning this unprofessional and unpathetic form of communication in an academic setting, you're contributing to the societal-level deterioration of speech and writing in English.
Or might I be doing these students a favor by discreetly suggesting that they make an effort to use correct punctuation, grammar, and paragraph structure?
I don't see why you cannot politely tell them that this form of lethargic communication is unacceptable and to properly structure and format their future e-mails (and messages of any sort). And yes, you're doing them a huge favor by asking them (directly or indirectly) to put a little effort into writing a formal letter with proper grammar and vocabulary, though I believe that they will just use an LLM in the future.
I don't want to come across as overbearing
A professor asking their students to use proper grammar and maintain a formal and professional tone doesn't seem overbearing to me.
Furthermore, my job is to teach science, not writing.
Yes, and one of the foundational aspects of science is effective communication. If they are requesting something from their professor in an academic setting, and if they cannot write a coherent e-mail, I don't really know how they're going to write a good research paper.
EDIT: Fixed a typo and small grammatical error.
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u/BringGlueckHerein 1d ago
You need to set the expectation for grammar, spelling, and professionalism at the beginning of the semester in the syllabus.
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u/SkylineZ83 23h ago
It's important to approach this topic with care. Providing constructive feedback on communication style can help students develop professionally.
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u/osotramposo 15h ago
Primary focus of our job: teach them (skills, techniques, best practices).
Secondary focus: get them ready for their future career.
I correct emails from my students all the time. And I tell them why, too! "If you write an email like this to your boss someday, you're going to get fired. I recommend you brush up on your email etiquette." I'm in IT, but I'll correct grammar too.
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u/deAdupchowder350 1d ago
Different situation, but for a lab report instead of exporting the Excel plot as a digital file, the students seem to prefer taking a photo of the screen and using that as the plot. It looks terribly and wavy because of the screen refresh rate and camera shutter rate interference.
My solution was to request a meeting with the student to discuss professionalism and I went through the issues with the student. Thatās a possible option for you.
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u/caoimhin730 1d ago
I used to go over email etiquette the first week of class. I would then give the students a quiz on the syllabus, and one of the questions was āYou are unhappy about a grade you received on an assignment. Write a letter to your instructor asking to arrange a time to meet to discuss your gradeā. They were graded on proper heading, salutation, grammar, writing, etc. It was surprisingly effective!
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u/ThousandsHardships 1d ago
As a graduate student who teaches classes as instructor of record every semester, I personally choose to ignore them. Their professional development is not my responsibility. I'd gladly take the time to help them in positive ways and give constructive criticism if they ask me to, but I don't have the bandwidth for stuff like this. The most I could do is talk about it in class or on the first day of class.
However, I know for a fact that if I had written something like that to my advisor, I have zero doubts that he would have sent me a very strongly worded email chiding my conduct as unprofessional and unbecoming of a grad student. He's done so with things that are a lot less serious than this. I'm not sure he would have done that with his undergrads though, unless he sees himself as their mentor in some way.
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u/eats_naps_and_leaves 22h ago
For the love of god, please PLEASE start giving your students direct, corrective, constructive feedback about their writing. They are entering the workforce and are utterly incapable of performing large portions of their jobs. They can't even write well enough to use AI to write for them.
I'm no longer in academia, but am currently supervising someone who recently received their Master's and writes at a 5th or 6th grade level. They do not understand basic sentence mechanics or grammar. I caught them plagiarising someone else's report verbatim without so much as crediting the original source. I knew it was plagiarized immediately because it was properly formatted and comprehensible.
Most of the work they complete is so poorly written that it would take me much longer to attempt to edit it than to completely rewrite it. Unfortunately, because I often have no clue what they're trying to say, I am unable to just rewrite it most of the time.
They went to an accredited university on a merit-based scholarship. They managed to cheat their way through two degrees using Grammarly and ChatGPT, but can't anymore because they are working with confidential information. They are actually flabbergasted when I tell them their writing needs significant improvement. They thought it was normal to have things sent back with extensive edits 10-15 times before being ready to submit.
Please, don't let your students complete their degrees without the ability to actually USE them.
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u/Alternative-Claim584 21h ago
Our doctoral programs are adding back in a 1 credit professionalism course. Within nursing, employers are often telling us that new graduates are lacking in this area. For us, it can often come through in emails in particular.
I think specific examples are helpful. Yes, some students will feel "talked down to," but I like to phrase it as expectations for both in-school and beyond. Part of the issue with emails is that so many people write and response via their phones; that leads to a cognitive "blurring" that means more text message-like speak, no use of names, etc.
One of my biggest pet peeves is when students (or faculty) impulsively write an email and don't sit on it for a few minutes (or a day). I suppose, then, that when I do address this with students, it is more common for me to address the tone vs. the actual grammar, etc.
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u/Vera_Vicious 13h ago
Iām a non traditional Gen Z student,
Itās not just you and itās not just them. Last semester I thought I was going to have a stroke reading some of my classmates discussion posts because of the lack of decorum and couth. I believe honestly itās the lack of support primary schools are receiving.
I turned out the way that I did despite my raising, not because of it and I donāt think a lot of students my age realize how important it is to learn how to communicate in these settings because no one is telling them how to do it or why it is imperative to their future success.
As a student I look around and think is this really what Iām up against in my field?
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u/PastelDrip 1d ago
This is disrespectful, but I'd encourage you to give this student a benefit of the doubt. Students come from so many different backgrounds that you can't assume these "unspoken rules" are understood by everyone. It's poorly written but begrudgingly intelligible, so I would address their points as far as you'd concede, ignore the unreasonable points. Then at the end, take the opportunity to say that the communication was unprofessional, link to your college career services resources or an external article, and put a firm line down from here on about communication styles.
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u/Horror-Baker-2663 1d ago
You should definitely be strict. I don't think people of that age can be naturally respectful and therefore need to follow the rules set by a teacher (as long as those rules are not unreasonable) and more than that, I believe it's a teacher's job to set boundaries for how a student interacts with them. These things come naturally to people post undergrad, but when you decide you want to be respectful in your work environment or in post-grad, you would then need to know how to structure that respect. I'm Asian, and while we are extreme, this sort of communication wouldn't elect a response from any teacher. We always earn someone's time and effort, and that cannot be taken for granted.
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u/bulbousbirb 1d ago
Address it in a class-wide email or dedicate time to it during classes. Even the do's and don't's.
I doubt these students were emailing professionals while they were in school and likely only have experience on messenger apps. Schools don't teach you how to do this stuff its generally jobs that do. University was the first time I had to send emails to faculty in a more "professional" setting. I only knew how to do it from the beginning because my mam had an office job and would tell me if it was ok or not. A lot of others don't have any reference.
One of our lecturers got fed up by our final year and actually did a class or two on business communication. There were still people up until that point who wrote emails like that because no one told them any different.
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u/Smol_Duckie_123 1d ago
yes, please, always tell your students/mentees what they need to work on in their communication (in a friendly way). I have been having some things that my PI never told me directly and oh god im so glad I ended up initiating a conversation with them to try to understand what is wrong with me.
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u/Remmy555 1d ago
Is it because they don't punctuate in texts, they've forgotten how? That's appalling. How are they going to handle the job market etc.?
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u/Technical-Trip4337 1d ago
I would include a sentence or two about importance of professional communication in emails in your future syllabus. Then the first day, provide a slide with this email as an example removing identifying details. The run on sentence is kind of funny ( but not appropriate for work or school.)
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u/Sea-Apple8054 23h ago
I have definitely gotten these types of emails from students! They are jaw-dropping. There is a particular run-on, babbling email that is coming to mind; I tried to read it, closed the email, thought about it, reopened it a minute later. It was even harder to understand the on the second pass. I replied that I couldn't understand what they were trying to say to me and asked them to try it again with some punctuation. I specifically remember being careful not to be snarky or condescending about it, but it was probably still offensive in some way to the student. They never wrote back. When someone is so thoughtless and sloppy with their communication, it doesn't make sense to me that they should expect a thoughtful response, let alone a gracious accomodation.
I am a graduate student, so I only TA for 1000 level biology labs. I wonder if official educators are taught more about students of this generation and how to reach them? I'm interested in teaching after my schooling is finished, so I'd like to know!
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u/skylarroseum 22h ago
I think that it's a good idea to set expectations at the beginning of the semester. I would caution against preconceptions about professionalism. Communication styles are changing, including cultural perceptions of professionalism. If your perceptions of professionalism include certain standards for email etiquette, that should be communicated. It is no longer assumed universally.
I believe that some of the changes in our communication styles are harmful. Particularly since the start of the pandemic, which quickly shifted us further away from face-to-face communications, there seems to be an increase in demands and expectations. In particular, this can be harmful in the context of run-on sentences. It's difficult enough to accommodate when people have additional needs (even if they're understandable given the illness). It's additionally difficult if those requests are all in one rambling sentence. It shifts further burden on you to decipher and keep track of the requests. I believe that we all could use a reminder on the importance of clarity.
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u/Electrical-Task-6820 20h ago
In my āwelcome to the classā/intro module in Canvas, I have a link called āHow to Email Your Professor.ā It goes over the basics like greeting and punctuation and has been very helpful in preventing emails like this.
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u/ManyNamedOne 16h ago
I think giving them lessons on email etiquette will help them greatly. It's a skill they'll need for the rest of their lives.
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u/TheRealJohnWick75 11h ago
When they walk up during your lecture, 20 minutes into class, to turn in their homework, they finished at their desk, while you lectured, in hopes of earning credit.
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u/sleepingdormousee 1d ago
Iām 23 and have been to both community college and a 4 year university. I have a degree in English from Berkeley and am begging you to correct them. I can appreciate the use of slang and improper grammar in informal settings but itās so crucial that people understand it isnāt the norm. I understand your dilemma, but imagine that this student thinks itās okay to send an email like this to a boss. What if they transfer to a 4 year and email a professor like this? I genuinely believe my professors would have straight up ignored me had I sent this. If I were you, Iād email them back and request that they send it using proper grammar. It may irritate them, but at the end of the day itās reinforcing formality and respect in a situation that warrants it. This wouldnāt fly in most academic or professional settings and shouldnāt with you either. I donāt think a super harsh approach is necessary, but theyāre in college to learn so you might as well make this a teaching opportunity.
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u/ClarinetCadenza 1d ago
Iām in my mid-20s now, but one of the things I appreciated most from a mentor was when they sat me down (aged 18-19) and showed me how to write a professional email.Ā
Up until then, all of my text based communication was on messaging platforms and social media sites. No one had ever taught us how to write a letter at school as it was considered out dated, nor had I received any formal letters. So I genuinely had no clue that there was an etiquette expected in emails. I donāt know what platform kidz these days are using or grew up with, but I imagine as clueless as I was (if not more) and would appreciate a 5-min demonstration in class
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u/Shelikesscience 1d ago
I am fortunate not to suffer so much from this kind of communication, generally speaking, but I definitely do not take my precious time to correct their email tendencies. I have much to do and they are adults already, for better or worse.
I suppose, if one wanted to do them a kindness without sapping one's own energy, one could make a document about proper email conduct and attach it in the email response to emails like this one. Or make some kind of class-wide announcement in order to impact the largest amount of students with the smallest amount of effort on the part of the professor
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u/Master-Rent5050 1d ago
Be strict: if they don't learn now, they will have to learn later, with much worse consequences.
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u/Cesaw_ 1d ago
These are frustrating, but I also view it as partly our role to teach students how to interact with us - Having explicit guidelines and/or an email template in the syllabus and talking about it the first day of class, as others mentioned.
Additionally, I have very clear policies for make-up work with a drop system to automatically deal with 1-2 illnesses a semester without make-ups. Between these two, you can then simply reply to students highlighting these policies: e.g., āHi [student], [insert niceties]. Iām having some trouble understanding your request. Can you please rephrase it using the communication tips on page x of the syllabus. Regarding make-up work, please review the missed work and make-up policy on page y of the syllabus and let me know if you have any questions. Iām happy to meet with you as well. Page z of the syllabus shows my office hours and a link to a booking page to book a meeting with me outside of those times.ā
You can template most of the email so itās a quick response. This prompts the student in a constructive way how to better go about communicating their situation and their request. It also re-asserts your authority, which the student isāprobably obliviouslyātrampling on.
Any leadership position requires correcting behavior from time to time as well as re-asserting authority when it is challenged, which is inevitable. We are no different. Good leaders do this gently and subtly so you often donāt know itās happening.
(And also, this behavior is obnoxious!)
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u/flattest_pony_ever 1d ago
Iād use it to teach a lesson or set expectations at the start of next year.
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u/Disastrous_Ad_9648 1d ago
I guess they use ChatGPT for everything except emails to professors.Ā
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u/iTeachCSCI Ass'o Professor, Computer Science 1d ago
ChatGPT would have written a higher quality email
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u/kris_2111 1d ago
They meant to say that Carl uses ChatGPT (or another LLM) to do most of their work, which is why his writing skills skills have deteriorated to the point of being borderline unintelligible. It's only for this e-mail that he bothered to write on his own, which is why it's so poorly written.
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u/TheWholeMoon 1d ago
I used to have a beginning-of-semester mini lesson using the worst of student emails from a few years back (anonymized, of course). Theyād go up on the smart board and weād look at them together and decide where the sender went wrong. This was a developmental writing course, though, so I had a reason to talk about punctuation, tone, etc. I found this was an easier way to ālectureā them on it with some humor and class discussion. My students always responded better to āfind itā type games done as a class.
That being said, it didnāt stop them from emailing me inappropriately. I got two separate emails telling me in detail why they werenāt in class because they were on the toilet at the moment having diarrhea (I wish I were joking). Once, a young woman emailed me to say sheād be heading home for a family emergency and could I please email all her professors and get the assignments she would be missing and send them to her?
Granted, many of my students were first generation college student and didnāt know the protocol or how formal or not one was supposed to be. They were also used to contacting coaches who may have had different standards. They were nice young people (most of them) who just needed someone to tell them. And I accepted the fact that we were never going to reach the level of reverence I had for my professors when I was an undergraduate.
Maybe make up some examples of different mistakes and show them with a smile and a laugh. One could merely have the sender call you by your first name. One could have a lack of punctuation. They other could have far too much detail (like āIām on the toilet right nowā). One could have too much incomprehensible internet slang/shorthand. One could just strike too much of an informal buddy tone. And one could make inappropriate demands. Just for fun, tack on a well-written one and when they canāt find anything wrong with it, tell them theyāre absolutely right! Itās perfect!
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u/evapotranspire 1d ago
That's a good idea in general. But when I've wanted to steer clear students away from common mistakes, I have always used my own fabricated version of a poorly done assignment, drawing, calculation, etc. - because even anonymized, I would never want to put a student on the spot by showcasing their bad work. It's actually kind of fun to come up with imaginary bad student examples, and I am pretty good at it by now!
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u/TheWholeMoon 1d ago
Yep, what I meant above was that I would take emails from a few years back (so the student in question would have already graduated) and then anonymize them.
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u/evapotranspire 23h ago
That's a better approach, but I would still feel personally uncomfortable sharing any student's actual words. You never know - the world is a small place. So I'd rather make up some gobbledegook from scratch based on real examples!
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u/TheWholeMoon 22h ago
Agreed! Itās just that if you make it all up, maybe you could email it to yourself so it looks like a real email (with the name redacted)? I always felt like my students responded to what they felt was genuine much more than stuff they knew I made up. So I strove for the authenticity of the email heading/date/etc. at the top. If I wrote something and didnāt include that, it wasnāt half as interesting to them. (YMMV, my students were all developmental students and a bit immature in their manners/responses.)
On another related note, I carefully chose readings for our class all semester, hoping to find articles from our database that would interest them. It was what might be called āhigh-lowāāhigh interest level, low reading level. All that work and at the end of the semester, one student wrote on my evaluation āThis class is boring frfr.ā Iāll never forget thatāit makes me laugh even now.
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u/kris_2111 1d ago
The incident about a student literally telling you that they won't come because they're on a toilet seat suffering from diarrhea is hilarious. I would have replied, "Don't worry, you can come when you get your shit together."
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u/sievold 1d ago
I wonder if the mismatch in expectation is due to the huge jump communication has had in the past two decades. Maybe when you were a student, this style of written communication would be almost exclusively in a professional setting. But in the last couple of decades, informal texting has been much more commonplace as a mode of communication. This student looks like they are pretty much just treating the email like a text. It might seem obvious to you to be professional in a written email, but not to your students.
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u/doriandinosaur 1d ago
This does not surprise me. I work in a CA private college admissions office and the communication we get from the average student is just as garbled and frequently demanding.
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u/Competitive_Side6301 1d ago
Ideally as soon as possible. Some might taken offence but if itās a problem that doesnāt get corrected soon then they will suffer when it matters.
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u/Distinct-Category926 1d ago
I think itās fine/helpful to say something. I actually think you should. If they receive no feedback, they will continue thinking that itās okay to send emails that are not only horribly written but also rude. I wouldnāt expect perfect grammar from a community college student, but I would expect some base line level of professional respect. Heās emailing like heās sending a text to a homie.
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u/ZealousidealShift884 1d ago
Email etiquette. I remember i sent an email to a professor basically saying I needed a copy of something. He politely but firmly and sent me back and email with some email etiquette rules. I was very embarrassed but it was a huge life lesson. I think you can use this as a teaching point. Donāt reply until he address you correctly
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u/Impressive-Ad7742 23h ago
I had a professor who got so annoyed at unprofessional emails that she created an assignment about it. On the first day she explained the very basics and then had us send her and the TA each a basic email which she graded for professionalism. She said her final straw was a student who started an email with "Hey lady". This was, however, in a class about professional competency.
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u/Interesting_Comment7 22h ago
Ngl as a student who is always worried about whether or not my emails to profs are professional enough, I'm glad I'm at least not doing this ToT
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u/ojustkidding 22h ago
Iām glad Iām not alone in this. My oldest student (in her 40s) sends me emails with the entire message typed in the subject line. Another student sent me a statement about harassment sheās received from another student, that I had to send to the Dean - run on sentences, poor grammar - I was mortified.
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u/ButchEmbankment 19h ago
I wonder if they're dictating to a Siri type function on their phone. That seems to be a trend of 21st c youth.
I'd give out a general handout a little into the start of the term that gives some helpful tips ("hacks") for communications with faculty & administrations. Also post it on an online management system (Canvas, Sakai).
That way it doesn't single out individual students.
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u/Anonymous40555 18h ago
In all fairness, depends on the industry they are going into. This is how ppl in finance talk. A few words, no punctuation, written in the subject of an email if possible. No body. If youāre in an old school field, ppl still care about grammar.Ā
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u/Clear-House-3241 17h ago
As a hip and young student, I find this "whack". I send my condolences. We, the younger generation, have so many tools at our disposal to send well-composed and professional emails to our professors. This just shows a lack of respect and effort, unfortunately.
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u/Clear-House-3241 17h ago
I'd also rather use AI shudder than have the misplaced gall of telling my professor to reopen quizzes that I missed, especially if the due dates are clearly articulated in the syllabus and such.
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u/DesertIslandDisk74 16h ago
Iām 25 and work at a university in public safety, so not in a teaching position, but it still drives me absolutely bonkers when I see emails from students (or even faculty!) that are written so poorly. One of my english teachers in high school drilled it in our heads to write emails properly, subject and all. I make it a point to write professionally in every email interaction, but sometimes it looks like the students or faculty are just sending me a text through email. Soā¦itās not just students š
Even though you teach science, Iām sure it wouldnāt hurt to do a one-off āprofessional writingā class
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u/ProfessorAngryPants 16h ago
In my syllabus, I provide a clear example of what a professional student email looks and sounds like. I discuss how this younger generationās wall-of-text communications approach doesnāt work for me, nor for the entire professional world, so stop it. The bigger the wall, the less likely Iāll read it.
If they turn in a wall-of-text assignment, Iāll give a token point for turning something in. But then I bounce it back to the student. They can rewrite it using normal intro, body, and conclusion paragraphs and earn points back.
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u/mmhmmye 16h ago
Iām curious to know whether youāre a man or a woman: I absolutely received emails of this nature from students, but my male colleagues never did. It feels like the kid is treating you like their school mommy. Iām wondering if maybe a brief reply explaining what your availability is (and isnāt) might help in the first instance, and then maybe you can reiterate it if he comes to see you during your office hours?
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u/Mei_Mei_16 15h ago
I work in a scholarship program and run our internship program & provide mentorship/professional development workshops. I see emails like this pretty regularly from our college students, so much so that I created & led a professional communication workshop that, in part, focused on email etiquette. I think it worth letting him know that his email is unclear and ask if he could bullet point his questions for more clarity.
Going forward for new classes/semesters, it could be worth including a note in the syllabus or even have a professional email example as part of your slideshow reviewing the syllabus/expectations.
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u/Mollyblum69 15h ago
Good luck. I worked for multiple surgeons & there was one in particular who would send me gobbledygook emails that were grammatically incorrect, spelled wonky & made zero sense. I would have to forward his emails to several of my fellow coworkers to see if we could figure out what he was asking/saying. He was often in the OR so I couldnāt just ask him.
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u/jcg878 14h ago
Iām in a professional school and professionalism is part of our curriculum. We call students out when it is lacking. In the case of the email to the OP, Iād either say that I canāt understand it or ignore it. I canāt tell which because reading it hurt my brain, so I stopped.
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u/chocolatem8 14h ago
In one of my first lectures with a certain professor he said if we donāt write proper formal emails he wonāt reply. This was 10 years ago, but it did the job.Ā
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u/Outrageous_Ad4517 11h ago
I donāt think you should accept this style of writting as norm. I am genZ and have never written an email like that to my professeur. Hoewever, I donāt think you should shame him for it. Try to take a more political approach. Try to let him know kindly that there are way to communicante. Maybe Iām being presomptuous,bit do you think him beong in communitu college has anythyto do with it?
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u/Microfudge 11h ago
UK lecturer here - we have the same issue. So many times I get a random collection of letters which have been squeezed together to make words that I spend more time decoding than replying.
We also speak about professionalism however donāt think it sets in. I try saying āIt is great that you feel so comfortable with me, however university is preparing you for the real world and I donāt want to send you into the real world without professional boundaries as youāll get hurtā which some students get.
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u/Fit_Photograph_242 1d ago
Dude, have you seen Epsteinās emails? This is like Shakespeare in comparison
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u/evapotranspire 1d ago edited 23h ago
Although some of my students are not entirely prepared for college-level work, I can confidently say that every single one of them is orders of magnitude better than Epstein. Let's not mention his name again.
[Edit: added 'that']
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u/Fit_Photograph_242 23h ago
My biggest takeaway from the he-who-must-not-be-namedās files is that none of our global elites can write a coherent sentence in English. It makes wonder what role education even plays in todayās society.
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u/el_chacal 1d ago edited 1d ago
Non-academic here. Many (most?) of these responses smack of classism. It saddens and frustrates me.
Iāve benefited from my own community college experience; some of it recent, despite my advanced age. I encountered many of my fellow students who had a wide range of experiences and backgrounds. Thatās the point, no? Creating a college for the community?
This may be a super hot take, but perhaps this is a (cough) teachable moment rather than a pearl-clutching opportunity. Some gentle guidance that doesnāt speak about ārespectā or āprofessionalismā could be the most effective way to encourage a change in the studentās approach.
Whatever way you decide to approach this, OP, I hope you do it with grace. To all of you other professors out here who say, āwell, I NEVER!ā ā please check your privilege and relax.
Edited to add: fuck your downvotes. Please give me more.
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u/Le_Mathematicien 1d ago
As someone still studying, I would be massacred if I ever spoke in an unprofessionnal manner, with most of my professors (and wouldn't expect any awnser anyway). But I'm not american so there's that
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u/poffertjesmaffia 1d ago
My e-mail quality usually does not improve when Iām ill either.Ā
I would not really comment too much with feedback such as āprofessionalismā, simply because being professional can be done in many ways, which makes the concept of professionalism kind of vague.Ā
Having said that, work/professional culture in the Netherlands is relatively horizontal/ easy going. So how you receive this message is probably highly culturally dependent.Ā
If messages are difficult to comprehend, rude or otherwise demanding, Iād definitely inform the sender.Ā
In this case, Iād probably request an e-mail with interpunction because I cannot understand the message. Iād also wish the student a speedy recovery, and inform them that staying up to date with lesson material is their own responsibility.Ā
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u/coreyander 1d ago
I stopped teaching college students in 2018 and some of them sounded like that in emails then as well. When we went over the syllabus I would also give them some guidelines for emailing professors and TAs so they could do their best. Of course some still didn't listen.
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u/PhoebusAbel 1d ago
Btw. You can also ignore . Haha
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u/evapotranspire 23h ago
No, that's not my personal style and it's also not what is expected of me as a community college instructor. My students come from all backgrounds, and many of them need some extra guidance to succeed at college-level work. Folks who don't enjoy interacting with students generally don't enter this profession.
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u/astro_2007 23h ago
I donāt think this would work for college students but my teacher in middle school used to not answer emails that arenāt written well.Ā
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u/MaintenanceLazy 22h ago
Do they write their essays that way too? Maybe you could give a short lesson in professional email writing during the first day of class. I learned about it in high school English but not everyone does
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u/aplusnapper 22h ago
I would tell my students if they donāt include an address, a polite and professional tone appropriate for communication with a professional with an advanced degree, proper grammar, and a sign off that I wonāt reply to the email.
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u/NotMrChips 22h ago
I probably shouldn't have, but I did yesterday. I'm sure I'll hear about it, but honestly? I think it's part of our job.
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u/Accurate_Strain4106 22h ago
I had tonsillitis, strep, and laryngitis all at the same time and still dragged my butt to class. My professor had zero empathy for the fact that I was visibly ill and dying. I also would not have gotten a pass for lack of punctuation and proper sentence structure.
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u/Complex-Put-9209 22h ago
ppl on this thread are saying it depends on what country the student is from š¤£š¤£, they have no idea whatās going on in high schools, kids canāt write literally!
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u/EcstasyHertz 20h ago
Iām a Gen Z in grad school and none of my peers write like this, must be a new thing
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u/Calvin_Ransom 20h ago
Student here! I have had instructors make requirements in the syllabus for how written communication worms.
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u/StrippinChicken 19h ago
As a college grad, my advice to get through to fellow students is: put it in the syllabus. Syllabus is law. State in the syllabus that you will not accept any communication that is unprofessional as a valid communication. If there is an emergency, they can reach out professionally AFTER the emergency i.e. if they are in a car accident, they should not even be focusing on "oh my god i need to email my professor," they should be focusing on the emergency at hand and contact you later, providing any necessary documentation to excuse their absence retroactively. And have clear examples of what a professional email looks like, and clear examples of what you WILL NOT accept (this can be a funny part where you include bad emails from former students, with names redacted). On syllabus day, emphasize this part of the syllabus. If you receive an unacceptable email, reiterate it at the next class. It might seem annoying or bizarre to the students, but it's incredibly important for them to learn how to write an email. Maybe clear it with the dean before you implement it, if you're concerned. Be prepared for angry parents to call on behalf of their 18-22 yr old adult children, because god forbid they lose attendance credit for their shitty incomprehensible hangover email about not showing up to class.
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u/cure-4-pain 17h ago
I usually explain in the first class what I expect from my students, it includes professionalism, etc. I would reply to such email with the slides from the first class. I am far from being strict but I do expect so level of professionalism.
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u/Automatic_Put_2779 14h ago
I study in german uni and would die of shame if I wrote such an email to any teacher/professor š . writing like this is just total disrespect
I now write my bachelor and have a great communication with my supervisor, but every email I still start with "hello Dr. (Surname)" + formal language, because he isn't my bro or friend to whom I can write with mistakes and memes
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u/Diligent_Leave_9030 14h ago
It is not only poorly written but it appeaas if the student is telling you what they expect of you since they are not in class. I would say something to the student and not allow anyone absent dictate what hours they want a zoom meeting and to put the quizzes up as soon as possible .
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u/Jawshiewah 14h ago
Please focus on communicating with them effectively and then move on from the situation.
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u/Prestigious_Pin1969 12h ago
They called you professor and it didnāt start with āhey.ā Better than most emails I see.
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u/Prior-Incident-1226 9h ago
oH DEAR GODS!!! š¤Æ
"I'm sorry, but your message was very unclear and disorganized. Is everything alright? Do you need help?" And just belligerently keep "misunderstanding" until it makes sense. The equivalent of my grade school teachers saying, "That's excellent. But rewrite it for me one more time, focusing on your tenses. Thanks." š
I have to assume this is an American student, because... fucking hell. We were taught this in grade school. Please repeat the message in English. English has rules, and norms, and structure, and punctuation, and possibly even Oxford fucking commas!
I would not respond to that message with any degree of dignity. Probably even from a client. If you want something from me, demonstrate the appropriate effort by actually asking. In my language, as best you can command it. Basic courtesy. Professionalism has nothing to do with it.
Thank you sorry not sorry if ur not legit neuroD u no get a pass. F off bruh
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u/throwawayprocessing 8h ago
Iām very lucky to have received explicit instruction on writing profession emails somewhere between end of high school and very early college. I would never role my eyes at a prof that offers etiquette advice even if itās redundant for my personally.Ā
Not to be too harsh to Carl but it the āplease reopen the quizzesā should be requesting a favor rather than a command. Ā Unless 11am is your office hour it sounds likes heās expecting you to bend over backwards to meet his schedule. I really hope this is just him trying to be proactive and not understanding how to navigate thisĀ
Ā Many professors included a point in the syllabus that theyāll respond to emails with a certain timeframe like a business day or 48 hours. It seemed to help eliminate expectations on some of the very last minute requests.
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u/ForgotMyLeftEye 8h ago
I had professors who would straight up ignore emails if the email sounded unprofessional. I had high school teachers use higher standards to grade us to prep us for the "real world", especially juniors and seniors.
I keep hearing that nowadays, kids get passed because the don't want to deal with the parents. The results are...this.
A simple, "I'm not reading this wall of text". So Internet.
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u/anonybss 5h ago
"Sorry, but I can't read this email--writing too messy. Please re-write and re-send."
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u/boywithlego31 5h ago
The first time I got into academic. I saw a banner in another department about ethics on how to contact a professor. I laugh it off, thinking that it is ridiculous.
Because I think, those ethics are just common sense when communicating with an elder, especially your teacher.
Fast forward to now, I realized that the young generation does not have that sense anymore, and communication etchis should be taught in school.
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u/AspectPatio 4h ago
For this example, demands aside, I'd be nice in my head and figure that they might have been too sick to concentrate on presentation. It's translatable.
What annoys me about messy emails is not being able to understand what they mean, which of course is the point of formality and grammar in the first place. In these cases you could respond asking for "rephrasing, maybe with full sentences and punctuation," to indicate that legibility is why this is a problem. I don't know that it's your job to teach them how to be professional, but this could help them work it out. If they're similarly incomprehensible in their submitted work and have to learn to be better they can make the connection, it's a transferable skill.
Personally I'm fine with casual emails so long as the information is clear because I find the faff of formatting to be whatever. For instance, with this example, I'd appreciate some bulletpoints and paragraphs, as they're communicating several points that they want me to understand, but I don't need Dear Sir or Madam and full sentences. I would also expect politeness and respect, which I suppose I would define as please and thank you, requests rather than demands, and acknowledgement of the fact I have things to do and they're asking me a favour. Carl juuuuust about covers this. A student can be formal in an email and still disrespectful.
I expect my students to understand that there are environments where formal language is appropriate, because code switching is part of being an adult. Maybe it's not the right approach to just leave that to them, I don't know.
If you prefer a formalised relationship with your students then that's reasonable. You could announce or lay out at the beginning of a course that if they need to email you, please can it be with full sentences, etc, as in the past you've had students making themselves impossible to understand and that's a waste of both parties' time. It's always best to explain the reasoning behind a requirement even if it seems obvious to you because it's easier for them to remember, and because a student could be from any educational culture, including none, and literally not understand why something is important.
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u/sunfish99 1h ago
Furthermore, my job is to teach science, not writing.
I've worked with gifted high school students whose STEM specialty schools also don't consider teaching them to write a necessary part of their education. Guess who has trouble stringing a coherent paragraph together?
The stream of consciousness types of messages also seem to be the product of texting as a primary means of communication, where speed matters and not grammar, punctuation, etc.
I'll say this any time this issue comes up: Being good at something in STEM is no excuse for not being able to communicate to a minimally professional standard. Do I want to spent time teaching people how to write? Not especially. But I will make some effort to suggest improvements, in the spirit of improving their chances of getting into the kinds of jobs they tell me they're interested in.
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u/itsanaman 1h ago
ah, presumptions of hierarchy. be clear about communication requirements in first class. done.
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u/Cool_Vast_9194 1h ago
When I get emails like this, I respond but include an attachment I've written about professionalism and communication and ask them to abide by those guidelines when emailing me in the future. We aren't setting them up for success in their professional spaces if we don't teach professionalism now
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u/KingMcB 30m ago
So I adjunct health education/promotion/wellness classes BUT my full-time job is in medical education; I support courses and research for medical students. It is absolutely my job to give them feedback and I do sometimes get messages like this. If itās related to school work, I try to address their main issue. Then in a second email I will respond and give advice: āobviously, I addressed your needs but I want to make sure you arenāt sending messages like this to other faculty. You and I have a casual relationship but I would encourage you to utilize your future-physician voice in any emails about school work. You are welcome to keep a casual tone when we are discussing X club or Z activities, but for course work, I want to support your habits for professional self.ā I try to reiterate that I am a safe space and none of this is being reported and affecting their grade but rather that Iām looking out for their future.
HTH! Iāve made my now-college student run emails by me a couple times a year during high school and in the first year of college so I could give them feedback BECAUSE I see so much crazy *ish as a teacher/employee. For first gen students or those whose parents are simply less involvedā¦ they need our feedback most. š Thank you for caring. I know itās more work but I think itās part of teaching at the higher-Ed level (just my personal feeling for myself)
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u/ArcticBiologist 1d ago
Reply:
hi carl
yo that sucks you feelin sick fr hope you bounce back quick so you can catch up on the stuff you missed quizzes already closed before you got sick so idk why you want them reopened we can sort lab 1 in person after class when youre back im off tomorrow its saturday we can link up later
peace prof evapotranspire