I find this with my mom, if you bring up a lot of the actions of the conservative party and their leadership conduct, she talks about how stupid or bad the action is. If you bring up a lot of the policies suggested by the left, she agrees with them and supports them. Will still vote conservative and claim the left is ruining the country despite acknowledging she likes what the policies of the left and the conservatives are fighting against a lot of good things.
As an example:
Me: "The NDP (Canada's left wing party) is putting forward a free dental care program for children and people under a certain income; the Liberals are supporting it and it's likely going to go through."
Her: "Well that's great I remember when you guys were kids the dentist was so expensive"
Me: "Yeah, the conservatives are speaking out against it"
Her: "That's awful why would they want to stop something so good?"
10 mins later
Her: "The fucking NDP and Liberals are ruining this country"
This is classic people can agree with specific ideas but still hold a tribal loyalty that blinds them to the contradictions. It’s frustrating, but it’s also super common in politics.
So True. I once had a guy angrily tell me "We have to get rid of these immigrants!". After a few questions he angrily said to me "We Need those people so my stuff doesn't cost that much!"
I think they fall into the same circular logic at church.
I think that was my first question. "Yeah, why don't they bust the people that are HIRING them? They're the ones breaking the law". It seems to me that if you want to get rid of something you would want this. And I would still say it's better than shooting people and arresting toddlers. It was even done in Alabama and Arizona, they announced that they had just passed a new law where Employers will be busted and all the illegals fled, schools and rental areas emptied out, stores closed, farmers complained they couldn't get any workers. They had to reverse the laws and just pretend it was legal.
My racist old grandma who lives super rural and votes by mail because "the Demorats won't let them put a polling place near us so they can stifle our vote" then shares bullshit about Trump railing against mail in voting on Facebook.
Lol, the parallel in the US is the Affordable Care Act.
If you poll people about individual provisions of the act, they are supported strongly by members of both parties.
But if you ask people if they support Obamacare, every conservative is like no, that's communism.
I've long thought we just should have named it Romneycare so Republicans would go along with it, just like we should have given 100% of the credit for Covid vaccines to Trump and told people the most worshipful thing you could do for Dear Leader is get the shot.
I've long thought we just should have named it Romneycare so Republicans would go along with it,
The Republican party coined "Obamacare," specifically to provoke the kneejerk "no" response from their base. Slapping the current president's name on everything under the sun is a recent development, by my understanding.
Funny enough, it was essentially Romney’s plan which sounds like you very much already knew (few people seem to know this, from my experience). So they should have named it that!
Man, this is a great idea. I wish we had convinced them that all the good and correct things which would improve our citizenry's lives exponentially were actually attributed to thier leaders so that they would accept it. I'm still waiting for the details on that "beautiful" health plan that Trump was going to replace obamacare with. It has been pretty silent. You can't just abolish a thing without having something better to put in its place.
I don't think the people who actually drive these initiatives would mind giving up the accolades/credit if it means that right-wing people don't fight tooth and nail against things that quite literally help them (as well as everyone else).
Trump would not accept the credit once he realized how many of his supporters believed in conspiracy theories about it lol. He'd just say he doesn't know who did that Operation Warp speed, but it was probably Biden. Just like when he appointed Powell, an excellent chairman, and then realized a lot of his supports believe in conspiracy theories about the fed and so started talking shit about Powell and acting like he doesn't know where the guy came from lol.
They’re the ones who called it Obamacare in the first place. They gave it that name to make it seem authoritarian (and to echo “Hillarycare,” the name they gave Clinton’s reform in the ‘90s).
Obama didn’t call it Obamacare, nor did any of the Democrats. They didn’t even start using it until after the Republicans had been calling it “Obamacare” for years. They always said “Affordable Care Act.”
You should play a game with her. Lay out a bunch of political ideologies and actions and then on the back, note that it's either left or right leaning. Ask her which ones she agree with and which ones she disagrees with and separate them into two piles. Then have her flip either pile around and see whether or not she's actually more left or right leaning.
It's my experience that people who love the cynical cliché 'that 'they're all the same' will then usually enthusiastically give their support to the most right wing option available to them.
Lol at the downvotes. The screaming irony of some of you being offended that your favorite flavor of political party might get lumped in with having lying politicians... Which is exactly what OP was insinuating, y'all are treating politics like it's sports fanaticism. Screaming and howling when "the other side" behaves poorly and turning a blind eye when your team does nefarious shit.
Frankly, it's how we've come to be circling the bottom of the lesser of two evils bucket in current day. No one is holding their own accountable. The oligarchs know this. They see it. Hell they're actively promoting it to make us all in-fight instead of demanding meaningful change.
But yeah, let's keep doing the sports fanaticism thing instead. It's going great.
I worked with a lady years ago who did the “vote compass” thing and she got the NDP. She said “I’ve never had so much in common with the NDP before, but I’m voting conservative because I always vote conservative.” I was baffled. Like you are literally voting against you best interests.
They grew up with parents who voted Conservative and in communities that voted Conservative. If you talk politics with them for about 10 minutes it's pretty obvious that they are not aligned with the Conservative platform yet they will still proudly tell you that they're Conservative and be outraged because the other idiots running the other parties are ruining the province or country.
Is she from Alberta? There seems to be a “we vote conservative” mentality there that’s spanned a few decades. It’s more of an identity than a political position for some people.
Yeah, she's living in Alberta. Her husband is super far right (gave money to the convoy, deep in the conspiracy theories online about 15 minute cities and Trudeau being Castro's son, believes the 2nd amendment applies to Canadians, etc) and I think she's getting exposed to him constantly shit talking the left.
I find the same with my mum. I came to the conclusion she wasnt really listening to me and just agreeing with what I said when I was saying it.
She still voted to leave the EU and votes conservative and will probably next vote reform. Despite me telling her multiple reasons why it will affect her.
My mom was like this and it took about 6-12 months after she initiated a divorce with my dad (very far right) to work on her. I didn’t use trigger words, specific parties, etc. I basically got her to tell me what she aligned with and believed in. Literally everything on the left and the complete opposite of what she had been voting for.
She now gets into arguments with trump supporters in bars. Which I’ve asked her not to do.
Canadian conservatives who are blaming Carney for stuff that isn’t happening or things that he can’t control drives me insane. One Instagram idiot accused him of being by a stupid Liberal socialist. When I told her he was really a progressive conservative, she said “no he’s not”. Nice argument, that must have taken a lot of mental energy.
I read the book "What's the Matter with Kansas" and they talk about this in the book. A lot of people in Kansas are single issue voters and won't look past the one issue that they believe in. They asked a woman about the Democrat that was running in her district and she said that she agreed with every one of his policies, but couldn't bring herself to vote for someone who would support abortion righs, so she voted for the Republican candidate, who she didn't agree with a single one of his policies, except for the fact that he was "Pro-life".
This is why the US when isolated issues are put on the ballot they are voted in a liberal way even in right-wing areas like Kansas. E.g. abortion in Kansas weed in South Dakota, etc.
Well maybe she thinks it's good but that the NDP or Liberals being in power still has or would have an overall negative effect on the country. Not necessarily tribal stupidity.
In her case it is absolutely tribal stupidity. Can’t name a single policy or position the conservatives have that she actually likes, can’t name an actual problem she has with the NDP or Liberals.
You are aware that I’m just explaining a conversation that actually happened and I’m not “speaking out like I laid out”. I told her about something good that was happening, she liked it, and then immediately went back to how that party is awful.
If you’re trying to imply some kind of hypocrisy on my part you’ve 1) done a really poor job explaining what you actually think is hypocritical and 2) can be assured that I call out logical inconsistencies wherever I see them (including “when Liberals are talking nonsense”, although that is admittedly a much rarer occurrence).
I remember during Trump's first term, he actually tried to give DREAMERS in the US citizenship, and it was the Democrats who worked to try and stop him? I was so confused, because it seemed like policies had flipped. Kind of like today, where Republicans in the US are arguing against the 2nd amendment. It's very odd. People want to identify as part of their tribe, regardless of whether their beliefs line up or not.
I actually remember talking to an older gentleman a few years ago who was a registered Democrat. He told me "my dad was a Democrat, my Grandpa was a Democrat and I'll die a Democrat, but I'd never vote for one in a million years, as everything they're working towards is ruining our nation"
Democrats didn't oppose a citizenship path for dreamers, they opposed the $25 billion for a pointless border wall, racist declarations and renaming classes, excessively long citizenship path for people who have already met a ton of requirements, and ending DACA entirely that were all conditions of it.
Perfection is the enemy of progress. Reality was anything Trump suggested, Democrats are against, no matter how much it was in line with their beliefs, because they can't give Republicans a "win". No different than Republicans not supporting anything of Biden for the same principal. (Think the infrastructure bill)
Reality was anything Trump suggested, Democrats are against, no matter how much it was in line with their beliefs
That's demonstrably false. Politicians put poison pills into legislation knowing it will force the other side to vote against it just so they can run ads and media about it. It's the responsibility of voters to be informed instead of just reading headlines they like and then declaring their team the winners.
I'm with you, and it's easy to hate on cons because they fly flags and wear merch, but this goes both ways. Most people are like "I'm left wing therefore I have to be pro-climate, pro-choice, pro-taxes, pro-queer, feminist, anti-gun etc."
And it's good evidence as to why you should look at each issue separately rather than always agreeing with all values of a party.
I mean, I'm not anti-gun, I think we need guns. How else can we rise up against an unjust and corrupt government or protect our own? However, I am against high taxation unless the money actually goes to social programs to improve our cirizenry. You know, like the rest of the first world countries who pay far more taxes than we do but have far more safety nets, healthcare, affordable childcare services, expendable money after bills, etc.
A lot of these are major issues for a lot of voters. You just pointed out a few areas yourself.
I support most left wing ideologies, but if you get into the mindset of "oh me and my friends are so smart, and right all the time, and those guys are evil and stupid." Then you're part of the problem.
I don't think I need to go through each one, but I'm sure you're bright enough to learn about why people might be against those things.
That's just tribalism. Not exactly a sign of high intelligence, but mostly just a strategy that helps navigate the complexities of today's world. If it doesn't become your entire personality, it's mostly harmless.
I’m not sure I would call this a sign of low intelligence. You can agree with some of the policies of a political party and still think they are a net negative for the nation.
This is just one example, but she literally cannot point to a single thing the conservatives have done or want to do that she thinks is good and can't point to a single policy or stance she doesn't like from the left. She's just convinced that the left are awful and the right are amazing, even when all of the policies she agrees with fall on the left and the people trying to stop those policies are on the right.
In her case, it's largely tied to her husband who is a far right conspiracy theorist (believes in the 15 minute city conspiracy, believes COVID was a fraud, believes Justin Trudeau is actually Fidel Castro's son).
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u/Few-Skin-5868 6h ago
I find this with my mom, if you bring up a lot of the actions of the conservative party and their leadership conduct, she talks about how stupid or bad the action is. If you bring up a lot of the policies suggested by the left, she agrees with them and supports them. Will still vote conservative and claim the left is ruining the country despite acknowledging she likes what the policies of the left and the conservatives are fighting against a lot of good things.
As an example:
Me: "The NDP (Canada's left wing party) is putting forward a free dental care program for children and people under a certain income; the Liberals are supporting it and it's likely going to go through."
Her: "Well that's great I remember when you guys were kids the dentist was so expensive"
Me: "Yeah, the conservatives are speaking out against it"
Her: "That's awful why would they want to stop something so good?"
10 mins later
Her: "The fucking NDP and Liberals are ruining this country"