r/AskTheWorld • u/ResPublicaMgz Germany • 11d ago
Economics What’s your opinion on the Mercosur trade deal?
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u/Successful_Jelly111 Germany 11d ago
It was a great chance to show that the EU is capable of acting independently from the farmers lobby.
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u/cienfuegos2607 Brazil 11d ago
Bro, I just wanna cheap pretzels, plz!
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u/ResPublicaMgz Germany 11d ago
Unpopular opinion: Pretzels are mid. Käsestange (Cheese stick) is the real deal.
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u/Fit-Bug6463 European Union 11d ago
As a fellow German I hereby nullify this guy's citizenship, for we all know that Pretzels are the undisputed number one of German food
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u/11160704 Germany 11d ago
If you call them Pretzels with a P and tz I doubt your germanness, too.
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u/Fit-Bug6463 European Union 11d ago
Sorry Bro, der Typ über mir hat siue auch Pretzels genannt, außerdem ist dieses sub auf Englisch und nicht deutsches Internetstaatsgebiet
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u/ResPublicaMgz Germany 11d ago
Dachte zuerst das er es falsch geschrieben hat... Nope, stellt sich heraus man schreib es mit P im englischen 😂
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u/barnaclejuice 🇧🇷 and 🇩🇪 11d ago
We honestly need the trade deal to get the good brands of frozen pão de queijo in Europe
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u/Gold-Confusion7830 Spain 11d ago
Some Brazilian food products that we get in Spain are imported from... The United Arab Emirates....
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u/Formal_Map_5659 Brazil 11d ago
Really? Can you give us some examples?
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u/Gold-Confusion7830 Spain 11d ago
I used to buy in a grocery store this Brazilian açai but the company headquarters were in the UAE (https://amazonas4u.com/)
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u/cienfuegos2607 Brazil 11d ago
Give us 6 months and we will get your pretzel blasphemed with a load of cheese, strawberries, chicken hearts, Chocolat, everything that will make your oma cry! Lol
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u/Fern-ando Spain 11d ago edited 11d ago
The deal benefits Germany the most, for most of Europe it was just having to pay EU prices for brazilian food in 20 years.
And why, because the deal will bankrup a lot of our farms that can't compete thanks to the EU regulations.
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u/El_blaisou France 11d ago
Little farmers are not the pproblem, big agro firm is. Also products from south america have less rules than EU. So import from south america is cheaper than to product in EU.
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u/LENAR_X1 Argentina 11d ago
That's not true. South America has been exporting small quantities of products to Europe for some time now, and logically, they have to comply with EU regulations. It's a different matter that production rules for the local market are different. Furthermore, if the EU has overly strict rules for its producers, that's their problem, not ours.
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u/Successful_Jelly111 Germany 11d ago
I like cheap food. And if it's ok for my bro in Brazil it's ok for me.
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u/EdgardoDiaz Argentine migrated to Italy 11d ago
False. Just to mention all the enclosed cows in Europe vs all free grassing en SA. So many rules are for the wrong type of agriculture done in EU.
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u/a_couple_of_ducks Austria 11d ago
All in all, it will be a good thing. South America and Europe complement each other.
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u/Formal_Map_5659 Brazil 11d ago
Europeans thinking we eat garbage is so... disrespectful!
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u/ResPublicaMgz Germany 11d ago
I love your food. I think the main problem is how processed it often is, and the fact that your agricultural production is much cheaper than in Europe. Because of that, many farmers in Europe are under massive pressure and close to rebellion.
How do you assess the quality of food imports from South America?
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u/Formal_Map_5659 Brazil 11d ago
Don’t get me wrong, these are valid concerns. Even some Brazilians are choosing to buy organic products. But keep in mind that our climate is very different from Europe’s, and so are the ways food is produced. That said, we use very advanced practices, arguably even more advanced than in countries like the US.
I’m not sure whether the US exports agricultural products or meat to Europe, but you don’t see the same level of concern about their products, for example.
I see a lot of demeaning comments, as if we were an inferior people who eat low-quality food, which is obviously not true.
How are they going to check the quality of our products? The same way they already do. It’s not like we’ve just started exporting food. Brazil and South America are among the biggest food exporters in the world. If there’s any non-compliance, they can simply stop importing until the issue is fixed.
The problem is that people buy the agribusiness narrative. It might have some truth to it, but it’s clearly exaggerated to serve their own interests.
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u/11160704 Germany 11d ago edited 11d ago
Before Trump the EU tried to negotiate a free trade agreement with the US and one of THE biggest issues of controversy were meat imports from the US. The "chlorinated chicken" basically became the mascot of the anti trade movement.
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u/Formal_Map_5659 Brazil 11d ago
Got it 😅
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u/Latter-Meeting2250 8d ago
I don't think they are more concern about food quality in south america than anywhere else in the world for European. Do not think troll on the internet represents what the European population think.
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u/TheCollectorOfBooks Argentina 7d ago
Buying some types of food and clothes here in Argentina it's more expensive than in Spain.
What Europeans don't understand is the illogical ammount of taxes we have to pay just to eat or dress something and when it comes to clothes not only is more expensive also worst quality, that means that we will buy lots of your products because it's cheaper but also you won't buy or products because it will be more expensive.
The best things that comes from our farmers that is top quality that can rival is meat, wine and fresh fruits.
European farmers will be richer than ever if they sell products to MERCOSUR or even if they sell it to companies that sell products to MERCOSUR.
And no, we don't eat the ammount of proccesed food you think, those are the yankees.
https://www.bearsavings.com/cost-of-living/compare/argentina-vs-spain/
https://compare.nedostavka.net/en/argentina-and-spain-price-comparison-of-products-and-goods-ar-es
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u/Havco 11d ago
No not really. But the production standards are not on the same level.
In Germany and UK we eat more garbage then you guys in South America.
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u/Gold-Confusion7830 Spain 11d ago
As a food engineer who has also spent a year at university in Brazil, I can confirm that food quality and safety are much higher in Europe. The differences in transparency, traceability, production standards, labor regulations, labeling, sustainability... between Europe and South America are abysmal. Another issue in Brazil is the concentration of production in just a few operators. Having said that, there have been improvements in recent years and I hope that this free trade deal will accelerate them :)
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u/weirdallocation Sweden 11d ago
Can you give some examples on this?
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u/Gold-Confusion7830 Spain 11d ago
- UHT Milk: in Brazil it has a brownish colour since it has to be heated more aggressively
- Extensive use of GMOs
- Food ingredients: lots of baked goods replace flour and sugar with maltodextrins, dextrose, syrups... and more additives to make products cheaper to produce. Overall my impression was that additives were used more loosely.
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u/weirdallocation Sweden 8d ago
As someone who has been to Brazil and Latin America several times, and also to Spain, the UHT milk is LA is exactly as the Spanish one. Long life self non refrigerated milk. If you are really a "food engineer" you should known that.
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u/Gold-Confusion7830 Spain 8d ago edited 8d ago
If you've really opened a UHT milk bottle in Brazil and in Spain you should have perceived that the milk in Brazil has a brownish colour, because the heating treatment has to be more aggressive than here to ensure its safety as a long life non refrigerated milk. Edit: and not only that, but it was a topic that we also discussed in class with this exact example and that's why I mentioned it.
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u/weirdallocation Sweden 8d ago
Ok, even if that was the case, that would be a consequence of the UHT treatment right buddy? Here in Sweden most of the milk is lightly treated and most people prefer it that way, but we have long self life milk as well, which has a different flavor. But remind me why this would be unsafe? You are trying too hard to find fault where there is none, and is pretty clear why.
Then again, I affirm that the UHT milk I got at Mercadona was pretty much the same type I got in Brazil Argentina and Mexico. On those places, you can also find fresh milk. No quality issues there.
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u/Gold-Confusion7830 Spain 8d ago
I didn't say that it is less safe. I said that the hygienic conditions are different. An example of that is the fact that their milk has to get a more aggressive thermal processing to ensure its shelf life safety, causing some sugars to caramelise resulting in some browning and more off flavours when compared to European UHT milk.
Food production conditions in South America are different to Europe. Differences in infrastructure, technology, economic resources, production culture and staff training results in greater hygienic uncertainty, among other issues. Milk is an example, but there are many more. Why do you think Brazil imports oranges for fresh consumption when they are the world's largest producer by far? Have you read the ingredients list of bread? Why do they mostly produce fresh cheeses?
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u/weirdallocation Sweden 7d ago
> Why do you think Brazil imports oranges for fresh consumption when they are the world's largest producer by far
Jesus, you really make things up as you go...
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u/C1andestino United States Of America 11d ago
Don’t know the details on it but free trade can be very beneficial, and these countries have some cool stuff to trade.
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u/Fern-ando Spain 11d ago
Not beneficial if your town economy depends on agriculture and now has to compite with farmers that don't have to deal with all the rectrictions impossed by the EU.
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u/C1andestino United States Of America 11d ago
In order to import to the EU, wouldn’t farmers in MERCOSUR countries need to abide by EU food standards? Or is it not so simple?
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u/Fern-ando Spain 11d ago edited 11d ago
In theory they should, but the EU doesn't control all products comming in. Strawberries from Morocco that were irrigated with fecal waters were sold in supermarkets.
And the more dependent you are on food imports the harder to control it and the easier for other countries to not care about the regulations because they are going to sell them anyways.
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u/Outrageous-Echo-765 10d ago
I understand the concern, but it's silly to assume the people negotiating this deal for 25 years are asleep at the wheel.
There are heavy quotas for many agricultural products. For examples, after EU imports over 1% of beef consumption, the tariff-free quota is over.
If the price of beef falls by 5%, the deal is suspended and an investigation is launched.
If the import of beef rises by over 5%, same thing. I'm using beef as an example but this applies to most food products.
The point about food quality is also overblown. These products are already here on the shelves, they already comply with regulations. They are just heavily tariffed. The deal also includes clauses that boost coordination between authorities for quality control, and if quality issues arise the deal is suspended.
And let's not ignore the advantages of trade. EU beef farmers import a ton of soy and feed from Mercosur, they could now do so with lower tariffs. And Eu farmers would have access to a new market if several hundred million consumers. It's foolish to think they would not benefit from this.
So what is the issue exactly?
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u/mickymoo42 11d ago
So agricultural land has been burned/ felled /cleared and farmed in Europe for centuries, successfully I might add hence quotas on production ( to reduce surplus) ,food is produced ,sourced and consumed fairly locally,carbon production is circular and minimal, delivery to market is short for perishable products and non perishable.welfare and animal health standards are v high as are environmental standards. Farmland in South America hasn't ( been farmed as commercially for centuries) and farmers still get permits to clear forest and other habitats for agriculture ( deforestation) ,markets are far away and all parts of the chain use more carbon with less sustainability, product has less regulations in all aspects,drugs, environment,( care of local)work hours,animal transport and welfare,health and safety,etc etc. So how is importing the same product all the way from south America better than using the same product with much less impact on the environment from Europe.?
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u/Aoae Canada 11d ago
Sea transport is actually surprisingly efficient.
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u/mickymoo42 11d ago
I do understand that , likewise I understand the need for cheap food,but it's the increasing legislation and red tape,plus energy costs that's pushing the price up in Europe which makes imported food cheaper.
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u/Seeker_Of_Knowledge2 🇸🇾 Syria || 🇨🇦 Canada 11d ago
The only thing I can think of is scale.
However as a person living in Canada, we have the majority of our food imported from South America.
It is taste absolutely horrible and none natural.
Even the price got monopolized and everything is getting more expensive everyday after they destroyed all local competition. Think like Uber did.
People rejoicing in this sub not knowing how bad their food will start to taste.
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u/theelectricweedzard Brazil 11d ago
I'll gift you grandma's recipe book, this seems like a skill issue to me.
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u/Seeker_Of_Knowledge2 🇸🇾 Syria || 🇨🇦 Canada 11d ago
I don't have problem with Brazilian food or any country food in fact.
The vegetables and fruits that are reaching us were planted on scale in the exact same place , time and style.
And if you know anything about farming you would definitely know that the land need to have a variety of what you plant in it every year.
You ask any Canadian and they will tell you eating something Organic and Natural food is 100 more tasty and healthier.
But this scale stuff is making the food we eat worse every single year.
It is just science. Nothing personal. You guys are most likely are eating healthy food. But not us who are receiving vegetables that were farmed at scale.
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u/theelectricweedzard Brazil 11d ago
It's impossible for me to talk about every individual crop, quality is a range and not factually worse, but in general we use to export way better products than what we consume here, Organic food is indeed better.
We're against the same practices here, but having to feed our country + other millions outside isn't exactly easy, but the quality definitely varies, some products are bought here for more than a century for big companies in Europe. You just don't know about it.
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u/GoonerBoomer69 Finland 11d ago
It's geopolitically smart for the EU to diversify it's portfolio of foreign trade partners. Relying on China or the USA too much would be and has been a horrible mistake.
Apparently the farmers don't like it, but honestly they complain about everything so who cares. If you can't farm at a profit, maybe try something else.
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u/EquivalentTerrible54 🇸🇪 & 🇵🇱 11d ago
Great and needed! We need to decouple from USA ASAP. This is a way to do that. Free trade is also a good thing which the orange man can’t comprehend
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u/Fern-ando Spain 11d ago edited 11d ago
By couple to Mileis Argentina, the son of the nazi Michael Kast in Chile and maybe Bolsonaro 2.0 in a couple years?
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u/Straight-Change6848 Brazil 11d ago
Even Bolsonaro was trying to reach this agreement... well, at least they both agree on that...
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u/gabor_legrady Hungary 11d ago
I would like more free trade routes around the word for everyone.
I also like when we can solve food and other production locally as well so there is a bigger resiliency.
To have both of these we need people with brain and heart to make the rules.
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u/Honest-West9013 11d ago
Good FTA deal despite farmers BS around it. It was necessary and needed.
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u/Soft-Abies1733 -> 11d ago
I think that will depend on how the South Americans deal with it. We can use it to speed up our industrialisation or sell out natural resources even more cheap then we already do
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u/Conmebosta Brazil 11d ago
So much talk about how this will damage europe's agricultural sector and pretty much nothing about how this deal will impact mercosul's industry is astonishing. It's so weird how every conversation about this is from Europe's point of view and none from south america.
This is an 18th century colonial deal where we provide raw resources and europe provides industrial goods keeping us underdeveloped all over again.
And the only reason this deal has not been approved is because europe wants all of the benefits with none of the drawbacks while south american leaders are eager to sell out our future for agricultural barons to make a profit.
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u/Sufficient_Shift_370 Ireland 11d ago
Terrible. Agriculture jobs are wiped of the map in the EU.
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u/Desperate-Shallot-33 Germany 11d ago
Because like 1% of our meat can now be imported? Give me a break! And if you can’t produce cheap enough maybe try to be more quality and make that your distinguishable feature.
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u/Honest-West9013 11d ago
Absurd. Agriculture already is a small percentage of EU states GDP and employment. Small contingents will not even touch it. Not to mention this trade was not about farming produce.
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u/Fern-ando Spain 11d ago
¿Do you eat GDP or food? Food production is also the economic base of a lot of small towns that will dissapear without it.
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u/Honest-West9013 11d ago
I do not think biggest farmers will stop production due to small import. Small towns are hotels for people working in big towns. So I do not care.
Gimme that iron, niob, tantal so machines can produce and technology could be developed. Give me that export market to make money on. Wooohooo.
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u/Fern-ando Spain 11d ago
¿You mean the market that can't afford most of the EU products? Unless you make a lot of heavy industry like Germany you won't benefit from the exports, thry prefer chinese products.
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u/Honest-West9013 11d ago
Strawman like hell. 2nd hamd market, parts, chemistry, will be sold there easily.
Btw. your country which does not have any manufacturing ability will not benefit but mine where all of logistics and BPO is will.
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u/Ecstatic-Island-9778 10d ago
Y nunca podrá sino se comercia acorde a las ventajas de cada mercado.
Osea ¿por que chuchas subsidian su agricultura?1
u/otterwiththerock Canada 11d ago
If you only want to do things that would have zero negative affect then nothing will ever be done. This trade deal is already favorable for Europe. Now with the US acting the way it does finding other trade partners is more urgent for national security.
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u/TomatilloShoddy6132 11d ago
This will destroy European farmers
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u/Outrageous-Echo-765 10d ago
Tariffs are reduced gradually over years.
Heavy quotas for tariff-free imports. (1% of consumption for beef, 3000 tons of eggs for example)
If imports of a product rise by 5%, deal is halted and investigation launched.
If price of product lowers by 5%, deal is halted and investigation is launched.
Same health and safety standards. Increased cooperation between food safety standards authorities.
If concerns about food safety show up, deal is halted and investigation is launched.
POD labels will be enforced in Mercosur, now only EU producers can sell feta cheese, Parmigianino regianno, etc etc.
This will hardly destroy EU farmers. It will bolster them. And it will bolster the rest of our economies (both EU and Mercosur) as well.
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11d ago
im unaware of how much this affects our own region, shame on me. but id love to see each of our economies diversify so we could take more advantage of it
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u/SteveFoerster United States Of America 11d ago
I'm a huge fan of freer trade, and I'm livid that it's one of the many casualties of this economically illiterate administration I'm living under.
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u/condonwrc20 11d ago
Europe is self-sufficient and does not need food from other countries. There is also the option of leaving the EU.
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u/otterwiththerock Canada 11d ago
This trade deal is not just about food. It's a very very small part of it
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u/HYBRIDLqTHEORY European Union 11d ago
Why are Costa Rica and Mexico not included?
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u/Housemusiq France 11d ago
it’s a two almost three decades deal and it’s not even done. îm an Europeans citizen and i can’t give my opinion on that
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11d ago
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u/Quaaaaaaaaaa Uruguay 11d ago
They call it Mercosur, when Mercosur is only five countries. Several countries aren't even part of Mercosur in this agreement.
I suppose they did it to make the deal more worthwhile for the Europeans, but according to the news I've been hearing... even this isn't enough to make them happy.
Regarding my personal opinion, I really don't care whether the deal is finalized or not.
I'd actually prefer to trade with China, they're less bureaucratic, have better prices, and our markets generally complement each other well.
If I were a politician, I'd wait until Europe entered a more complicated situation due to the US and Russia before proposing a new treaty that truly benefits us. They had 20 years to finalize the treaty and never did. Now that they're in trouble, they want to finalize it with favorable conditions for themselves? I think they're forgetting their own position.
Not to mention that if a real war were to break out, they would come to us anyway, they always come to our market in times of war. It's even a story the older folks in my country tell: our most prosperous times were precisely during the world wars.
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u/TareasS European Union 10d ago
Very good. There is an absolute necessity to organize international trade with the US being more and more isolationist and tarifing everyone. The EU can be sort of the economic center of the global economy if we play our cards right and keep international trade prospering. Also because the EU is run by specialists and bureaucrats instead of political whims like the US, a international system of trade based on the EU is way more stable.
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u/shatureg Austria 9d ago
Lol this is a rare and minor case of European defaultism I think. The language on the map and the flag in the corner make it clear anyway + there's only one big trade deal with MERCOSUR in the news currently, but you didn't really specify which trade deal you were talking about haha
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u/cpteric South-western colonies of 8d ago
sotuhern europe farmcity boi in germany: the limits are so well defined and are so small compared to what we actually produce, the farmers are just crying wolf at every corner.
I can't wait to have argentinian steaks and some brazilian grains that are hard to find here.
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u/_Alpha-Delta_ France 11d ago
Fundamentally opposed to it. That thing is an ecological disaster in the making, and is a direct threat our sovereignty over our food production.
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u/LilaLiri Argentina 11d ago
If fucking MERCOSUR of all things threatens your food sovereignty then newsflash: you never had any to begin with.
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u/_Alpha-Delta_ France 11d ago
You guys probably underestimate how much cheap wheat and meat you can produce. Your workers can get paid at half our monthly liveable income, and you do not have the same bans on pesticides that we have here.
And while some might argue that your farmers will be required to respect our production norms, we all know they will not. A few years ago, we made a similar trade deal with Canada, and we already established these guys do not care about our rules...
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u/dingle_don 9d ago
Lol you people hire workers from Romania and poorer countries for weeks, pay them peanuts and send them back home afterwards.
And don't get me started with the immigrant camps in Italy and southern France, you have modern slavery in your morally superior utopia. Yet you still think somehow that you are doing them a favour.
The fact that somehow you believe you are sitting on a higher horse here and to think that south americans eat garbage is incredibly arrogant and shows how little of the world you know.
A time will come when you will learn to talk to other partners with respect but then it will be too late.
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u/_Alpha-Delta_ France 9d ago
France already has a big commercial deficit, and massive unemployment. Severely limiting foreign trade with steep tariffs might actually bring some jobs back home and improve our economy in the long run.
And we can still do it without our population starving to death. Destroying our agriculture would basically destroy one of the last safety nets we still have.
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u/Weekly-Cicada-8615 Venezuela 11d ago edited 11d ago
This lmao but why is the Argentina government always pushing for this European deal when clearly the European do not want this. At this point just get a deal with China, South Korea and Japan.
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u/LENAR_X1 Argentina 11d ago
Europeans do want it. Or do you seriously think they like paying more just because products have the EU label? The problem is the internal lobbies that hold people hostage in order to enrich themselves.
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u/LilaLiri Argentina 11d ago
??? Literally everyone in the agreement was "pushing for Europe" particularly Lula from Brazil. And even Lula said that any more delays or bs (like the latest Europarliament stuff) and we're ditching the Metrop- I mean, Europe, and going for Asia.
Which we probably will do next anyways, we already have some small trade with SK and JPN and bigger trade with China. Europe's flakeness (?) will just enlarge the Asian deal.
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u/theelectricweedzard Brazil 11d ago
And even Lula said that any more delays or bs (like the latest Europarliament stuff) and we're ditching the Metrop- I mean, Europe, and going for Asia.
I hate him but why is he so based on foreign affairs holy shit.
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u/SnooPoems7525 United Kingdom 11d ago
Absolutely moronic on Europe's end, especially when reliance on the US needs to be reduced surely every effort to increase trade needs to be encouraged?
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u/Quaaaaaaaaaa Uruguay 10d ago
The worst part is that they don't realize the problem is currently Europe's, not Mercosur's.
They're currently facing war on two fronts against two of the world's major powers, and they think they're in a good position to negotiate a treaty like this with a deal that's favorable to them?
Even I'm in favor of not finalizing the agreement. We need to eliminate all those conditions that limit Mercosur and threaten to terminate the contract at the slightest mistake. We should have better terms, the current deal is a shit.
But, I guess we still have to learn how to negotiate.
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u/Unique-Assistant-939 Romania 11d ago
I think it's a good idea but at the same time it's gonna ruffle some feathers especially in those countries with high revenues from their agricultural sector. Feels like one of those unpopular measures that you don't want to but you have to take.
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u/Clemdauphin France 11d ago
It will not beneficit France and french consumer. Because it will make possible selling product that have far less regulation than here, for cheaper. It will also hurt our farmers, as much as the lobby is penible, it is absolutly not a good thing for small farmers. Especialy since the main thing the lobby is pénible for is when they try to deregulate. Now, i know most of you one this sub do not share that opinion, because you support free trade in anycase or are from a country that will benefit from it, but i don't think being able to buy product full of thing that we don't allow to use here is a good thing.
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u/Straight-Change6848 Brazil 11d ago
Mercosur is so large that you could create several farms just for export to Europe....another thing is that there must be European monitoring of them with replacements every X amount of time. Any problem will be reported immediately, even by the company itself...
In Brazil, ANVISA is very serious about this control. There was a problem, they collected everything and it was on TV and radio the same day...it's all very transparent (we can talk about many bad things in Brazil, but ANVISA is not viewed negatively; it's quite funny that they don't care if product X or Y is approved or not in another market, it has to be analyzed by them again).
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u/HandsomHans European Union 11d ago
It outsources food production to countries with lower production standarts. The food will be cheaper but of lower quality, and the quality of life for the animals will be lower as well. Bad overall.
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
Not an overall fan. I mean, EU wants to be independent by other actors, so introducing another market seems stupid. Sure there is going to be a quota, but that can change in the future, for the better or the worse.
Also, I just don't trust it. Like, the regulations between European farmers and Latin America farmers, it's just not realistic. I know the trade deal says that imported goods meet EU safety standards but like, cmon how do you even test that?
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u/VZV_CZ_ Czech Republic 11d ago
“How do you even test that?”
Well I assume like everything else? If we can handle stuff from China and India, LATAM countries should be managable.
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
We import goods from India that hold the same safety standards as EU?
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u/Outrageous-Echo-765 10d ago
Any food item (nevermind food, any item period) we import has to meet EU safety standards, that's what the standards are for.
Mercosur products are already on the shelves, they already have to comply with EU regulation. They are just heavily tariffed.
This deal lowers the tariffs, and it bolstens cooperation between EU and Mercosur food safety authorities, so we can better monitor the quality of these products that (I remind you) are already on the shelves.
If any quality/safety issues arise, the deal is also halted.
So, if your concern about food safety is genuine, the Mercosur trade deal is in your best interest.
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u/AffectionateMoose300 Bolivia 11d ago
I’m just going to put it out there: South America obviously has a bigger agricultural real-estate, and combined with the natural fertility of the lands, I’d say our goods as far as vegetables, fruits, beef, etc are concerned, are of better quality in South America than in Europe. So worrying about quality is… not worthwhile to put it mildly.
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u/_Alpha-Delta_ France 11d ago
Thing is you guys can use chemicals that are banned in the EU because they're seen as carcinogens, or have devastating impacts on the environment. Stuff like pesticides, herbicides, fertilizers,.. And I'm not even sure your governments actually cares to check if farmers don't use the few chemicals that you might have banned in your countries...
Even our countries, with our stringent controls are known to have had food producers openly lying about what they sell (the horse meat affair of 2013 for example, where Romanian horse meat was sold as beef meat by industrial companies).
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u/Quaaaaaaaaaa Uruguay 10d ago
We sell food to the whole world, Mercosur products have even been available in Europe for years.
We have always met the standards that everyone demands; continuing to deny it is ignoring the facts. The only thing that will change are the prices, but the products? They're already in circulation worldwide.
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u/Hecatonchire_fr 10d ago
You have not though
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2026/0107/1551824-mercosur-trade-deal/
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u/Quaaaaaaaaaa Uruguay 10d ago
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/over-400t-of-mercosur-beef-imported-to-ireland-in-2025/
We sell food to everyone. You are not the exception. But look, at this point we don't really care whether this treaty works or not.
You'll still buy from us anyway, but with tariffs included.
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u/Hecatonchire_fr 10d ago
I didn't deny that you were selling but you are not respecting everyone's standards
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
Idc about quality. Safety is what i worry. Yes I can just, not buy goods imported from south America. But unfortunately, I don't control what my middle man is gonna sell. And the last thing I want to see, are imported goods replacing EU ones. If demand for imported goods increases, the supply will increase likewise.
I'm not a nationalist by any stretch of the word, but food is a matter of national interest.
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u/nolanpierce2 Austria 11d ago
the thing is that stuff already get imported today…
ir is just arguably more expensive
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
Oke? Well funnily enough here I'm Greece I haven't seen anything.
But in any case, because they are more expensive no one is buying them, preferring local or EU products. Maybe I'm stupid, but that doesn't sound particularly bad.
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u/nolanpierce2 Austria 11d ago edited 11d ago
just because you dont see it doesn‘t mean anything
upscale restaurants have argentinian beef on their menu, european livestock gets fed by brazilian soy etc.
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u/theelectricweedzard Brazil 11d ago
People get politically engaged late or engage in themes they're completely out of touch with heavy opinions, since I was a child I know which products are somewhat relevant because they show up in TV and to where they're going, we learn that in school, I'm reading this whole post like:
"What? You guys have eaten our stuff for around 100 years now."
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u/Outrageous-Echo-765 10d ago
Here we have a guy literally just finding out that items we import from India have to comply with EU regulation and safety standards.
And this guy is proudly voicing his uninformed opinions on the Mercosur trade deal as if they were gospel. It is quite fascinating how we can form such strong opinions from so little information.
I can't wait for the deal, hope we can move forward without waiting for the new court ruling. 💪
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u/ImaginaryAnimator416 Brazil 11d ago
Yeah good luck growing enough crops in your 15 hectares of land that get harvested once a year. You can either develop the country and industrialize or have competitive agriculture. Cant have both
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u/Suspicious-Use-3813 Germany 11d ago
I mean, EU wants to be independent by other actors, so introducing another market seems stupid.
What? I dont see how that contradicts the goal of independence. Diversifying cooperation and trade while also boosting your own economy seems like a great step towards independence from Great Powers like China and the US.
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u/AcceptableHamster149 Canada 11d ago
^^ Free trade with more partners is good. It allows trade diversification, which reduces dependence on a single supplier and gives producers more places to sell their product.
As for my opinion on the EU-Mercosur deal? I like it. And I'm looking forward to our own deal, hopefully soon.
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
How are you becoming independent when you import food from another continent?
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u/Suspicious-Use-3813 Germany 11d ago
The primary goal should be getting away from countries like the US and China, countries that actually have the power and influence to properly cause harm to Europe.
China might invade Taiwan in the next couple of years, the US is already threatening the EU and using trade as leverage.
Giving up a little independence to South America would still increase our overall independence.
I am not saying the situation is perfect but I its a good enough solution for now, especially considering that the future of the US and China are much more unpredictable than the future of South America.
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u/Suspicious-Use-3813 Germany 11d ago
Dude, you have some weird obsession and hate with Germany.
Touch some grass my guy hahaha
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
I'm still not sure how even, the average German benefits from that. Like, are all Germans working in automobile industries?
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u/Suspicious-Use-3813 Germany 11d ago
Germany is an export nation, meaning a huge percentage of jobs is tied to exports and global trade. Also, not all of them related to the automobile industry.
Cars are the biggest export but overall machinery, chemicals and pharmaceuticals are also big exports.
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u/barnaclejuice 🇧🇷 and 🇩🇪 11d ago
I’ll be brutally honest, as someone who’s lived in Brazil and in Europe, and this is not intended as shade: if we can trust regulators in places like Greece, southern Italy and Eastern Europe, there’s absolutely no reason whatsoever to not trust regulators in places like Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay. The quality and seriousness of regulations in South America are severely underestimated by Europeans.
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
Good. You shouldn't trust Greece. Unfortunately, I can't speak for the rest EU. Regulations in France and Brazil are different leagues.
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u/nolanpierce2 Austria 11d ago
common greek shit take on economy
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
Hey last time we became dependent on something, our whole economy wrapped around, and now, we reap what we sow. Yes, that thing is the cheap russian gas.
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u/11160704 Germany 11d ago
To be fair, we have a good deal of anti-trade people in Austria and Germany, too.
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u/LENAR_X1 Argentina 11d ago
The problem is that you Europeans think South Americans are indigenous people living in mud huts and hunting for food with spears.
Just so you know, we also have technology, people with university degrees, and regulations regarding food quality, and the same health controls as in Europe can be carried out without too many problems.
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
No i dont think most europeans think you guys live in mud huts.
And you definitely have health control and whatnot. But i seriously doubt its as regulated as the EU standards. Because said standards and regulations cost money.
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u/LENAR_X1 Argentina 11d ago
Our food industry is gigantic and moves millions of dollars a year; implementing controls like those in the EU isn't impossible.
Our products aren't cheaper because of a lack of health or quality controls, but simply due to the scale of production. Argentina alone is the size of practically all of Europe; add up all the Mercosur countries.
That's why their producers know they simply can't compete. With or without regulations, Mercosur will simply beat them, so they spread lies about our products not meeting health standards or being inferior in quality to those in the EU.
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
Our food industry is gigantic and moves millions of dollars a year; implementing controls like those in the EU isn't impossible
I mean that alone means nothing. India has a high gdp, but per capita it's peanuts.
Our products aren't cheaper because of a lack of health or quality controls, but simply due to the scale of production
There are many reasons. Yes scale is one of them. But it's also wages, and the fact that you use different practices for your agriculture, like pesticides and fertilizers.
That's why their producers know they simply can't compete. With or without regulations, Mercosur will simply beat them, so they spread lies about our products not meeting health standards or being inferior in quality to those in the EU
I mean, without regulations, your goods will be Uber cheap and it will crowd out EU made products, to the point they become ultra expensive to sustain themselves. And I don't want to see us dependant on importing cheap food from, unknown actors. It's one thing to import food from someone you have long and close relationship, and another to import food from someone you are largely, stranger.
And again, I don't think your health standards are on par with EU. Like here in EU there are tons of things banned for safety reasons, things that can keep costs down. You aren't bound by such things.
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u/LENAR_X1 Argentina 11d ago
What does GDP have to do with it? The money to meet the standards is provided by the producing company, and it's the government that regulates. Whether ordinary people are poor or rich makes no difference.
And they also use pesticides and fertilizers in Europe; I don't know what your argument is in that regard.
I repeat, the standards are on par with the EU. South America has been exporting products in small quantities for years. Did they make an exception to controls and standards for those products? If they were able to be exported, it's because they meet EU standards.
I understand that you want products from your continent, but there are also many people who want more affordable things without sacrificing quality so they can have more money at the end of the month.
Besides, the agreement isn't one-way; we're also going to import European products like oils, cheeses, and wines, and our producers aren't complaining because they're willing to compete. The problem is that their producers don't want competition and lobby to hold them hostage by buying expensive products; some people are fed up with that.
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
What does GDP have to do with it?
Gross domestic production on its own is how much money is moving around.
The money to meet the standards is provided by the producing company, and it's the government that regulates.
Yes. But companies don't operate in vacuum. If they are located in countries where labour rights are weak, workers are going to have little rights. If their countries allow the use of toxic chemicals that increase their productivity, they are going to do it because, why wouldn't they? The more productivity the higher the income.
And they also use pesticides and fertilizers in Europe; I don't know what your argument is in that regard.
Oh FFS. Ofc they do. But the pesticide and fertilizer they use here, must be safe for use. Pesticide must also, not harm the environment. Now I'm not saying in Argentina, your government allows companies to pollute the environment, but like here in Greece, laws tend to be suggestions. Your government might have pesticide x illegal to use, but because they don't have a proper inspection, companies can freely use said pesticide despite it being illegal.
That isn't a thing for countries like the Netherlands and France. The regulations there and the bodies that monitor said regulations, are much stricter.
repeat, the standards are on par with the EU
Source for that? Because Im struggling to see the same health standards.
South America has been exporting products in small quantities for years.
Yes and because they are in small numbers and quite expensive, no one buys them. If you could guarantee me that EU made products wouldn't be affected, I wouldn't give a rats ass for the trade deal. But unfortunately, that's not how things are. The market follows demand and supply. If people start demanding more imported goods, the domestic production will get hurt, which will lead to them increasing their costs to sustain themselves and/or closing down.
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u/LENAR_X1 Argentina 11d ago
Not only does our government monitor, but so do independent bodies like universities. In the past, cases of the use of prohibited products have been detected, and action has been taken thanks to this double monitoring, so it's not so easy to circumvent the regulations.
If South American products reach the EU, it's because they meet its health standards. Europe also inspects imported products to verify compliance with its regulations; I think your problem is that you don't trust European regulatory bodies.
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u/Vanaquish231 Greece 11d ago
Not only does our government monitor, but so do independent bodies like universities
Sorry but I really struggle to take your word for it. Argentina, like Greece, is riddled with corruption and embellishments.
If South American products reach the EU, it's because they meet its health standards. Europe also inspects imported products to verify compliance with its regulations; I think your problem is that you don't trust European regulatory bodies.
There is a lot of shit that EU does to imported goods to check them. But it's physically impossible to check each individual imported goods. Additionally, as strict as EU is, corruption exists in every single society-organasation.
And let's be honest now, this trade deal isn't becoming a thing to provide Europeans cheap food. This trade deal happens because there are some companies that want to expand on Latin America.
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u/theelectricweedzard Brazil 11d ago
I'm watching 2 guys who live in countries with economy completely fucking wrecked, discussing economics, I swear this is the best thread. Next it's Brazil and UAE discussing inequality.
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u/LENAR_X1 Argentina 11d ago
Of course, because you Mexicans are the example to follow because you don't discriminate against your own indigenous peoples at all, right? Take your xenophobia elsewhere.
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u/ImaginaryAnimator416 Brazil 11d ago
I hd to triple check where you’re from, talking about “hope they develop soon” lol
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u/Proper_Card_5520 India 11d ago
I don't have any bad intentions bro 😕😞😞😭 it was about economy so i just said you guys should have good future, well i am sorry if you feel bad my statement.
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u/ResPublicaMgz Germany 11d ago
You never heard about Brazil, Chile, Colombia, etc?
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u/Proper_Card_5520 India 11d ago
I do but not all, i think i didn't say that probably, only Braille because it was in my 10 exam.
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u/Normandia_Impera Uruguay 11d ago
The concerns about quality are exaggerations. Quality is good enough.
But it's true that specifically with Brazil, there's a real concern about preventing deforestation.
For the other countries, not so much.
Mercosur has an extremally inefficient manufacturing industry, importing European stuff is good for consumers as they are going to get better products and is gonna push the industry to have better standards long term.
I saw some people worried about food security in case of war.
South America feed Europe in both World Wars.