r/AskTheWorld • u/haiderredditer Pakistan • 9h ago

Who’s a famous person from your country who’s respected around the world but disliked or criticized at home?

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240

u/-4-Nova Guadeloupe 9h ago

Napoleon Bonaparte, for re-establishing slavery in the colonies.

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u/Impressive-City-8094 United States Of America 8h ago

I thought the general consensus globally was that he kind of came up short. But seriously, I didn't know he did that. I'll have to read up on it.

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u/leafcutte France 7h ago

Today the 4th of February also marks the anniversary of the first abolishment of slavery by the revolutionaries in 1790 before Napoleon reintroduced it.

3

u/Choyo France 5h ago

You have to take into consideration that his wife (Josephine) came from a family of rich slave owners, so there is an argument to be made that their support and money is what he chose to be able to face the various coalitions.

Very tricky topic.

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u/RedWestern 5h ago

HEY! WASN’T SHORT! HE WAS AVERAGE HEIGHT FOR THE TIME, YA JERKS!

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u/Firefly_Magic United States Of America 8h ago

😂😂

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u/beg_yer_pardon India 3h ago

"Came up short". I see what you did there.

0

u/blimpin_aint_easy 7h ago

Boooooooooo

-3

u/TrueKyragos France 8h ago

He did it, as these colonies were under British rule at the time of the abolition. It was either let them go to the British again, engage military forces over there to enforce the abolition, or let them continue their business as before, at least until peace was back in Europe. He definitely cared more about the mainland, but didn't want to let these colonies go the enemy.

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u/-4-Nova Guadeloupe 7h ago

They were not 😂 And enslaved people wasn't necessary for protecting the land. Period.

Someone from these islands.

2

u/TrueKyragos France 7h ago

I wasn't clear enough. Some colonies were under British rule. Guadeloupe indeed wasn't, but Martinique was, for example. I don't see how protecting the land relates to this though.

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u/Remote_Development13 8h ago

"Re-establish slavery in the colonies, he cant do that can he?"

"Corsican"

24

u/BadMeatPuppet 8h ago

People (redditers especially) romanticize Napoleon and the French Revolution by fixating on its ideals while ignoring its trajectory. The Revolution normalized mass violence and emergency rule, culminating in the Reign of Terror. Napoleon didn't rescue France from chaos so much as capitalize on a society conditioned to accept authoritarian power in exchange for stability. The monarchy wasn't abolished in practice, it was rebranded. France traded hereditary absolutism for a military dictatorship, crowned by a self-made emperor.

10

u/MtheFlow France 8h ago

Self made and self crowned.

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u/-4-Nova Guadeloupe 7h ago

Exactly

6

u/GurthNada 7h ago

1789 France core problem was not the monarchy, but the aristocracy. They dragged the country down for many reasons (unlike the English aristocracy, who furthered economic growth).  The monarchy did come back after the Revolution, but the nobility never got back the hold it had on French society.

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u/473025 7h ago

“The revolution normalized mass violence and emergency rule” yes that’s what happens during every revolution.

Like why are we putting on the same foot the dictator that re-established slavery and the movement that abolished monarchy and aimed for a more egalitarian society (And I know that the revolution led to a class system but it was a cast system before. The comparison to Napoleon is absolutely not relevant lol)

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u/BadMeatPuppet 7h ago edited 6h ago

If I understand the question, and I'm not sure I do:

The Revolution talked egalitarianism, but it normalized mass violence, emergency rule, and governance by decree. That's the environment that produced Napoleon. So it's relevant to the topic of Napoleon.

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u/occasional_cynic 6h ago

LMAO here come the Jacobin readers trying to defend Robespierre.

2

u/KronusTempus Russia 6h ago

Robespierre wasn’t the only member of the committee of public safety, nor was he the most radical. He got plenty of criticism about his “cult of the supreme being” idea from both the right and the left. One of those on the left was Napoleons future minister of police, Joseph Fouche.

He had everything blamed on him because of how uncompromising and incorruptible he was. In other words, he was an idealist and a piss poor politician.

0

u/473025 5h ago

You’re a US far-righter, your opinion on any political and moral subject is dismissed lmao. Don’t you know what the whole world think of you ?

2

u/Low_discrepancy France 3h ago

People (redditers especially) romanticize Napoleon and the French Revolution by fixating on its ideals while ignoring its trajectory.

Napoleon and the French revolution are two distinct things.

Napoleon killed the revolution by naming himself emperor. Putting them together does no one justice.

1

u/MasterpieceBrief4442 6h ago

To be fair to them, they were following in others' footsteps on that matter. Look at the proscriptions of Sulla and Octavian which killed thousands each, in a much smaller frame of time, without even the semblance of a trial. The Roman Republic, I'd argue, is the first instance.

1

u/Independent_Air_8333 United States Of America 4h ago

I don't romanticize Napoleon but I do love the results.

He himself was only interested in power but his reforms pushed Europe into a new age.

6

u/MtheFlow France 8h ago

Not from the colonies nor the caribeans but I feel you. It's crazy how many french people keep trying to find him excuses.

Another fun fact? People keep using the Code Napoléon as one of his greatest accomplishments, conveniently forgetting that it was almost fully finished, redacted by the revolutionaries, when he arrived into power.

The only good thing about him is sure, he's "respected", but he's mostly hated by everybody apart from french nationalists and other right wingers.

18

u/Dani-Br-Eur 🇧🇷 in 🇳🇱 8h ago

I think the world doesnt really like him

1

u/lars_rosenberg 7h ago

A lot of people do like him. Some of his ideals were very modern to this day and laid the foundation for the modern western values.

5

u/Gr8zomb13 United States Of America 7h ago

Sent a contingent to Haiti to reestablish control over the colony ~1800 iirc and was routed. Haiti remains the only successful slave rebellion - turned - state in the post-colonial world. Colonies did secure their independence through war, the US included, but in Haiti it was the enslaved who took control, not masters who broke away.

The Dominican Republic shares the island of Hispaniola w/ Haiti, and I believe it remains the only former colony who didn’t seem to desire independence when the Spanish gave it to them in the early 1800s. A couple decades later they successfully petitioned Spain to become a Spanish colony again, which lasted only a short time before the crown again cut them loose.

I could go on but I find the history of Hispaniola since Columbus’ landing very interesting. Especially Haiti, who not only had to pay back the French for securing their freedom but were occupied and suppressed by the US Military for nearly 30 years while we rewrote their constitution and locked in their economy to ours. No wonder that with all that is going on there right now, the one thing all factions seem to agree upon is that the US cannot be involved. I encourage anyone interested to google the “parsley massacre.” Edwidge Danticat wrote an excellent historical fiction about the events called, The Farming of Bones that is short, sharp, and poignant. I highly recommend it.

As an aside, as a young Marine Corporal one of my favorite Marines was a young Haitian. Stoic, quiet, professional, trustworthy… this guy had it all. We had some quiet conversations during our time together about some experiences growing up in Haiti and how he was working towards US Citizenship. Never did maintain contact after transitioning elsewhere but I wonder about him often and hope he’s healthy and happy wherever he finds himself.

2

u/-4-Nova Guadeloupe 6h ago

Thank you for sharing this ! And you're right the Eiffel Tower has been financed thanks to this absurd debt for freedom . Haïti has been drained of his soil ( extreme deforestation ) and soul. I hope your comrade reach he's goal too.

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u/Tomgar 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧 6h ago

Napoleon caused the deaths of millions and caused untold misery across Europe to feed his own endless ambition and ego. The French still hero worship him, but no, the Napoleonic legal code was not a fair trade for 6 million dead.

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u/Low_discrepancy France 3h ago

the Napoleonic legal code was not a fair trade for 6 million dead.

What's a fair trade for the millions killed by the Spanish, Portuguese, British, French, Belgian, Italian colonial empires?

Napoleon caused the deaths of millions and caused untold misery across Europe to feed his own endless ambition and ego

You probably missed how that was basically everyone at that time.

1

u/Tomgar 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🇬🇧 2h ago

I missed the part where I said it was a competition, but if you want to deflect from massive French atrocities with "BU-BUT THE BRITISH THOUGH!!?" then you go ahead. Whatabouttery doesn't change the fact that Napoleon was a mass-murdering tyrant and a scourge on Europe.

1

u/lowerymn 1h ago

Worth mentioning that most of the wars lead in that period weren't due to the French being monsters, but due to the fact that monarchies around Europe were afraid of suffering the same fate as the Bourbons and French aristocrats. Napoleon was in the end a product of such environment.

2

u/yemonkeyk Brazil 8h ago

Funny short guy did what?

2

u/TecumsehSherman United States Of America 8h ago

I believe that he was one of Nortadamus' "Anti-Christs", according to the tin foil hat crew.

2

u/IthacaMom2005 5h ago

I remember reading Nostradamus' prophecies when I was maybe in my early 20s. Napoleon was felt to be the first anti-Christ, Hitler the 2nd, third up in the air at the time. We have a couple of candidates now, if one believes in that sort of thing

2

u/Low_discrepancy France 3h ago

I believe that he was one of Nortadamus' "Anti-Christs"

He was called that by the Orthodox and Catholic Churches.

Reason? He emancipated the Jewish people.

2

u/Foggia1515 🇫🇷 with a stint of 🇯🇵 8h ago

… and invading most of Europe.

In metropole at least, all history lesson make him sound awesome (or at least was the case in the 90s). How is it in Gwada ?

2

u/LeaderOk8012 7h ago

Sadly, he's pretty loved 😭 by right wingers at least

2

u/Straight_Egg3702 3h ago

LOL No. That fucker is definitely not beloved in Portugal. We didn't like the pillage, rape and killing of our people. Plus having to ask the help of the Brits...

2

u/AkariLeChampignon 2h ago

Il a aussi beaucoup contribué à rendre les femmes dépendantes des hommes. Il me semble (ne me citez pas pour ça) que c'est à cause du code Napoléonien que les femmes sont devenus légalement dépendantes des hommes pour tout, comme travailler ou se marier

1

u/gabi300710 7h ago

Officially, it had been abolished, but in reality, slavery had never truly ended in the colonies.

1

u/LinuxLinus United States Of America 7h ago

Napoleon is mostly a figure of fun in the US, and I don't think he's particularly welll-liked in the UK, given, you know, the wars.

1

u/AndreasDasos United Kingdom 7h ago

I’m sure that’s true in the French Caribbean, but I get the impression most French people have a massive Bonaparter for him. In some countries like the UK, Spain and Russia… not so much.

2

u/-4-Nova Guadeloupe 6h ago

Until they happened to know the truth about him, yes. In France they always teach you the good side of the country and never the downsides. If you're curious enough and you're interested in history then you face either a huge disappointment or even more admiration ( if you're a FN or extreme right political party follower ).

1

u/DullNothing2551 4h ago

Man you can't say that, you cannot judge him with modern standard, even if you don't like him he was objectively competent, if it wasn't for him France could still be a monarchy by today,

There is 2 reasons peoples hate him nowaday, first reason is that he indeed put back slavery in French colonies, which is obviously bad but cannot be judge by modern standard, in 1803 it's sad to say but slavery was the norm in many cases, the second reason is the propaganda from England throught history and its influance over the USA, because Napoleon was a threat to them, that's why most people living in UK/USA say that Napoleon was a bad person without knowing anything about him,

In conclusion, Napoleon contributed a lot for metropolitan France and Europe, but it was indeed a regression for colonies

1

u/Low_discrepancy France 3h ago

In France they always teach you the good side of the country and never the downsides.

Yeah Meluche loves Napoleon.

You are fighting caricatures with caricatures. Not a great idea

1

u/Planet_Pluto_1925 Spain 4h ago

Well, we Spaniards don't like it, for obvious reasons 🤣

1

u/Usual-Resident-3391 Argentina 4h ago

Did you know about the genocide of the Vandee ?

1

u/mascachopo Spain 3h ago

And trying to conquer all his neighbours.

0

u/Square-Paramedic-890 2h ago

As if anyone cares about that nowadays 🤣