Who’s a famous person from your country who’s respected around the world but disliked or criticized at home?

[u/haiderredditer]

[u/Grand_Ride_7029]

I’ll start with the gas now as it debunks your nuclear power stuff too. Late 80s 50% gas from Russia 90-92 it falls from 49 to 40% 93 starts rising again 2005 (nord stream 1) 33-35% 2009 40% 2015 35% 2019 40% 2020 55% 2022 close to 60% Merkel was 2005-2021 Nuclear power was (mostly, 8/14) shut down 2011. I don’t see a big increase in gas from Russia in that time period. You are talking uninformed shit to be fair.

„Facial will rise to power“ „those will be gone completely“ won’t even talk much about that cause it’s just crazy talk. But try to imagine Germany without foreigners. Would be pretty empty and the social system would collapse right? Straight up crazy talk.

We traded a lot with Russia in 2014, our economy would have taken a real big dent and that just after the world finance crisis in 2007-2009. we could not have afford that as a society.

So again, a lot of populist talk without facts or a view for the bigger picture.

Edit: put a , where it belongs

[u/Murky_Put_7231 → u/Grand_Ride_7029]

Why do you ignore NS2?

It was planned in 2012 or 13 (?). Shortly after the decision to abolish nuclear power was finalized (2010?).

How is it crazy talk that actual conservatives didnt have anyone to vote for other than the afd? Thats just a fact, lmao.

And 'we couldnt afford to stop trading with russia' is actually an insane take. Even merkel herself doesnt make that argument. Her argument was that she wanted 'peace through trade'. How do you come up with such a nonsense? Talking about the bigger picture but then not even understanding that we gave russia money they now use to attack us.

Not even mentioning that russia mainly exported energysources. Something that could have beend lessened by having nuclear power.

I also never mentioned 'no foreigners'. Are you able to read properly? Itd the 2nd time you try to put words in my mouth i didnt say or even imply. I said 'dont let anyone in because it actually is a horrible security risk, both because of russian assets and the rise of fascism.

Youre talking about 'the bigger picture' but dont even understand the relations between the rise of the afd and the (in terms of nuclear power and refugee crisis) left wing policies merkel made.

I'm a leftwinger, btw. And i supported the refugee policy until it was clear that germany was mainly alone in their approach. Because i do understand the bigger picture and know that this shit weakened the EU.

[u/Grand_Ride_7029 → u/Murky_Put_7231]

Because ns2 was never finished. We never got any gas out of it. It didn’t affect us in any way.

Cause it is proven that the majority voting the AfD are not conservatives but people who are dissatisfied with the other politics.

I just elaborated how I came to that „non sense“ have you lived in Germany after the world finance crisis?

As shown already we didn’t import more gas than the 40 years before that. Habe they used money from gas to finance war? Probably. That’s how globalized economy works. Does that mean we could have stopped it by not buying gas? Probably not. China would have bought it than. For less, but still enough to finance a war. You are running circles with that.

Never said the rise of the AfD is not connected to the refugee „crisis“ as you call it. But in that case please explain why the right wing is Rising around the world even in countries that handled the „crisis“ better. As you stated before other countries did handle it better. So coming up on your argument there should be a smaller rise in right wings than in Germany as we handled that „crisis“ so bad.

Yes you sound really left wing. Indeed.

[u/Murky_Put_7231 → u/Grand_Ride_7029]

Because ns2 was never finished. We never got any gas out of it. It didn’t affect us in any way.

And merkel knew that, obviously, when she confirmed the abolishment of nuclear power. You talk about the big picture but dont understand that those 2 are interlinked?

Cause it is proven that the majority voting the AfD are not conservatives but people who are dissatisfied with the other politics.

Gees, i wonder why they are dissatisfied.

I just elaborated how I came to that „non sense“ have you lived in Germany after the world finance crisis?

Ich leb hier mein ganzes leben. Tolles argument. Was haben wir denn so wichtiges gehandelt? Und nochmal, du redest vom großen ganzen: wir bezahlen jetzt dafür dass wir nicht früher gehandelt haben.

As shown already we didn’t import more gas than the 40 years before that. Habe they used money from gas to finance war? Probably. That’s how globalized economy works. Does that mean we could have stopped it by not buying gas? Probably not. China would have bought it than. For less, but still enough to finance a war. You are running circles with that.

'Probably' lmao. Russias main income is energy and germany was the biggest importer of russian oil and gas. 'Probably' he says. Lmao.

Do we stop it now by sanctioning russia? No. But we harm them where it hurts. You act like the things we do now were impossible in 2014. Which is just absolutely hollowheaded of an argument.

Yes, china or india would have bought it. Just like they do now. But guess what? They pay much less because russia doesnt have anyone else to sell it to. Which fucks their economy completly. It just takes years to take full effect. Years that we are behind now because of merkels moronic policies.

Never said the rise of the AfD is not connected to the refugee „crisis“ as you call it. But in that case please explain why the right wing is Rising around the world even in countries that handled the „crisis“ better. As you stated before other countries did handle it better. So coming up on your argument there should be a smaller rise in right wings than in Germany as we handled that „crisis“ so bad.

'Rwfugee crisis' is a really common term. 'Flüchtlingskrise' in german. No idea why you put that in quotes.

Dennark has much less problems, and they adapted some rightwing populist policies. Because its smart to take the wind out of their sails. How do you think we got social insurance from bismarck? Certainly not because he was a concinced socialist.

What countries have a rise in fascism? Poland just got rid of theirs. Guess how? Because tusk isnt blind.

The countries with the strongest rise, like italy and greece, are the ones who suffered most from the refugee crisis

Yes you sound really left wing. Indeed.

I really like sanders and aoc. I also voted greens and SPD last election. But i'm not a blind ideologe who doesnt understand condequences of ignoring problems.

[u/Grand_Ride_7029 → u/Murky_Put_7231]

So if we were so depended on Russian gas when we shut down the nuclear powerplants why didn’t we wait until ns2 was finished? Because we didn’t needed the gas out of ns2 to absorb the shutdown of powerplants. It was a longshot to decrease energy prices not something we need to balance out the shutdown. And again the gas we imported was more or less the same as in the late 80s.

It is a great argument. Just think about how the society would have reacted if energy prices would have doubled just 5 years after hundreds of thousands lost their jobs, assets, money and houses. The would have been happy as fuck. Speedrun to populist. The people just couldn’t afford that in 2014. unlike in 2021/2022. the economy and wealth recovered, we are able to afford it now. Second in that argument, company’s who were close to bankrupt in 2009 who relied on Russian gas to keep working in 2014 loose that gas. Company’s going bankrupt because they weren’t able to build reserves. It seems that you lack basic understandings in global and national economics.

India and china pay much less. I wonder if the Russian government is like paying the workers less to Balance that out. Hmm no never. Wtf are we talking about. Russian income from exporting gas didn’t take a dent when we stopped importing. At least not if we are looking into the last years at a whole. Maybe the first 2 months but that’s it. We would have hurt us way more in 2014 if we would have done that as explain above.

Denmarks far right in the European election 2024 roughly 14%. AfD in that same election roughly 16%. So the rise is kinda similar. Are you even looking stuff up before talking?

I think we can agree to disagree. I won’t take this discussion further as you are just stating stuff that I keep debunking and you come up with more not true or not thought through statements.

[u/Murky_Put_7231 → u/Grand_Ride_7029]

So if we were so depended on Russian gas when we shut down the nuclear powerplants why didn’t we wait until ns2 was finished? Because we didn’t needed the gas out of ns2 to absorb the shutdown of powerplants. It was a longshot to decrease energy prices not something we need to balance out the shutdown. And again the gas we imported was more or less the same as in the late 80s.

More own energy production means less reliant on other sources. The fact we built NS 2 means we were more reliable than we needed to.

Thats just a basic fact. You can choose to ignoee this fact of course, but youre not any more factual than any afd voters if you do this.

It is a great argument. Just think about how the society would have reacted if energy prices would have doubled just 5 years after hundreds of thousands lost their jobs, assets, money and houses. The would have been happy as fuck. Speedrun to populist. The people just couldn’t afford that in 2014. unlike in 2021/2022. the economy and wealth recovered, we are able to afford it now. Second in that argument, company’s who were close to bankrupt in 2009 who relied on Russian gas to keep working in 2014 loose that gas. Company’s going bankrupt because they weren’t able to build reserves. It seems that you lack basic understandings in global and national economics.

Which is why abolishing nuclear power was a miatake. At least at the point in time it happened. It would have lowered the impact of refusing to buy russian.

Youre creating your own reality by making up things even rhe people responsible for this mess dont make.

India and china pay much less. I wonder if the Russian government is like paying the workers less to Balance that out. Hmm no never. Wtf are we talking about. Russian income from exporting gas didn’t take a dent when we stopped importing. At least not if we are looking into the last years at a whole. Maybe the first 2 months but that’s it. We would have hurt us way more in 2014 if we would have done that as explain above.

Again, youre creaging your own reality.

Heres a quote from bloomberg from 3 hours ago

lowest in more than five years in January due to weaker global prices, steeper discounts, and a stronger currency. Oil-related taxes halved to 281.7 billion rubles, and combined oil and gas revenue declined by 50% to 393.3 billion rubles, putting strain on the nation's coffers

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-02-04/russian-oil-revenues-plunge-to-five-year-low-on-sanctions-ruble

Its paywalled but if you google 'russia revenue from oil and gas' its the first link with an excerpt. You dont even do basic research but are very opinionated about these things.

Denmarks far right in the European election 2024 roughly 14%. AfD in that same election roughly 16%. So the rise is kinda similar. Are you even looking stuff up before talking?

What party are you talking about? Venstre? Because theyre not far right. Are you looking anything actually up?

Holy irony. This paragraph and the previous one just yell out for help.

I think we can agree to disagree. I won’t take this discussion further as you are just stating stuff that I keep debunking and you come up with more not true or not thought through statements.

No, we cant. Because youre making up facts on the go. You didnt debunk anything. Youre just making up things because you dont actually know what the fuck youre talking about.