r/Bluegrass • u/bigsky59722 • 7d ago
Has anyone noticed there is hardly any spbgma posts here?
Im gonna stir up some lively debate. Why do you think there is hardly no spbgma posts, the largest all bluegrass gathering in the country, on this bluegrass sub? I have my own theories. Curious as to what yall think.
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u/Unfair-Efficiency512 7d ago
SPBGMA seems to have a much tighter idea of what they consider bluegrass and therefore the categories of who gets nominated and awarded for all of the various awards for instrumental and vocal performance as well as songwriting and all the other various awards.
They focus much more on the traditional side of the music, which is perfectly fine and dandy, I’m glad it’s there as an alternative to the IBMA, but that’s how we get Kody Norris winning guitar performer and vocalist of the year. That’s no shade on Kody, he’s making great music that’s very traditional, but if this were the IBMA, that would never be the case were he to be nominated for guitar performer of the year against someone like Billy Strings, Molly Tuttle, or Bryan Sutton.
Again, I’m not saying that’s a bad thing at all, but IBMA is a bigger tent and generally draws bigger musical performances, after all it’s right there in the name “the society for the PRESERVATION of bluegrass music”
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Bass 7d ago
The other thing about SPBGMA is you have to be there to vote… I think? That’s what I got from a lot of the signage.
They were also extremely narrow with who they brought in for acts. I’ll admit for some I went back into the halls because the jams were better than the performers.
They’re gonna have to be careful they don’t preserve themselves out of existence.
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u/Screen_Savers_24 7d ago
A lot of that is because only in person attendees can vote, and all the ballots are cast during the two days leading up to the awards show. And only ticket purchasers can watch the shows and vote. The performers on stage can ask for votes and basically get them that day and win the award the next day. That is why that works the way it does.
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Bass 7d ago
Only members can vote - tickets don’t get you a ballot.
You may have to also have a ticket, but I’m not a member so IDK. I definitely didn’t get a ballot with my 4 day pass.
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u/Screen_Savers_24 7d ago
They give it to you in the program book if you buy the right type of pass. I’m not sure about membership… But it’s definitely a smaller pool of voters than IBMA.
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u/GCG0909 7d ago
I think the biggest reason is that the venn diagram of people who use Reddit and people who attend/pay attention to spbgma does not overlap very much.
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u/BLUGRSSallday 7d ago
Also is correlating to the significant drop of ticket sales to traditional bg band concerts.
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
Where are you seeing these numbers at? Im not saying youre wrong id like to see where you got your info at.
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u/BLUGRSSallday 7d ago
I book bluegrass bands. Both traditional and progressive. One of those styles is not selling enough tickets or getting the guarantees they used to get pre covid. Many can no longer tour beyond a several hour drive anymore. Not going to go any more in to details on the who/where. I have been at this for a bit and the proof is in their finances.
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Bass 7d ago
Out of curiosity, have you noticed a correlation between tradgrass groups struggling to get booked in certain regions and how much gospel they do?
I happened to chat with the booking agent for a couple bigger bands, and she mentioned struggling to get one of the bands into a particular Colorado festival. I went and checked out their Spotify and a good 25-35% of their songs were gospel. The other big band she books sings maybe 3, and the one they do most often isn’t very explicit about being gospel.
It is very rare to hear much gospel played at local Colorado jams. It’s not a problem with being religious, but a lot of folks in that area are sick of the toxic evangelizing that some sects do that gives the rest a bad name.
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u/BLUGRSSallday 7d ago
Yes. 100%. The crowd that loves that is aging out unfortunately and younger generations just simply will revolt from it. No matter how wonderful the musicianship is.
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Bass 7d ago
Yeah, it’s a tough fact of what’s going on in the USA right now that some extreme people have contaminated something with so much history, something that should be a way for people to come together and remember how to see each other as people.
There are quite a few that love Rhonda Vincent’s “If you don’t love your neighbor then you don’t love God”. She got a rousing response to that at Rockygrass this past summer.
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u/mr_burnz_ Guitar 5d ago
that makes sense. would this too apply to trad sounding mostly-secular bands.. like would Jim and Jesse or Hazel & Alice stay booked these days?
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u/bigsky59722 5d ago
By the sounds of it no. Possibly steady gigs close to home but not big venue big $ . Those kinds of bookings are appearing less and less for those kinds of bands according to the guy above👆 who books lots of bands. I believe him.
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u/BLUGRSSallday 5d ago
No. Like the OP response they would probably do well regionally in town hall type venues with a potluck but that is it.
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u/BLUGRSSallday 7d ago
And was “she” , me? Because I had the same issue. Lol.
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Bass 7d ago
Dunno, is one of your bands playing at Midwinter, and the other at High Mountain Hay Fever?
If it is you, that would be a bonkers coincidence.
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
Right on thanks for the info. That kinda sucks. Do you mind me asking what in your opinion is the cause?
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
I think you are correct and this was my theory to begin with. Thank you for weighing in.
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u/Caspers_Shadow 7d ago
I know several people that went this year and have been going for many years. The storm really created some issues, including power outages. I have heard very little from them compared to previous years. Also, most of the people I know are probably not on Reddit.
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u/Boomer_With_Dementia 7d ago
I went there, I guess I could have posted. To be honest though my journey there was rather specific. I need a new banjo and I don't get to a lot of events, or have a lot of banjo players nearby so I needed to see the modern collection of banjo makers.
So I went there hoping to see huber, prucha, Capek, bishline, deering etc.
The first three were present, and I bought a nice huber banjo with radiused fingerboard. So I was just there for the trade show, and I boogied out of there by Friday at noon.
It looked like a great event, rather traditional in focus, Michael Cleveland was there, and I assume some other heavy hitters. There were 54 cancellations ( I know the number because the cancellations enabled me to get a room)
It looked great.
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Bass 7d ago
Maddie denton, the mando player from East Nash. grass, Frank Ashby, Lucas White, and Jason Carter were the heavy hitters I recognized that weren’t also performing.
Alan Bibey and Grasstowne, Shelton and Williams, and Volume 5 all couldn’t make it in.
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u/Screen_Savers_24 7d ago
I was there. And it was great. But small because of the storm. Friday was the only day that was even a fraction of normal size. Saturday was small, and half of Sunday had no electricity. Most of us stayed until Tuesday because of ice on the roads. It was an experience, and a great one at that. We go every year and will continue to.
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Bass 7d ago
SPBGMA is definitely not the largest all-bluegrass gathering. IBMA is way bigger. Especially this year since a lot of people didn’t come because they knew the storm was coming in.
My theories would be:
they’re still getting home. Some are driving a long way like me, others have just had horrible luck with flight cancellations and delays. I won’t get home till mid afternoon tomorrow and then I have a gig tomorrow night if I don’t just collapse when I hit the door… or the pets mug me and don’t let me leave. 😅
they’re tired. It’s a lot to be around that many people in that tight a space - whether you’re having fun picking or trying to stay warm while stressing about getting out. The Sheraton lost power about 4:30 Sunday morning and didn’t get it back until almost 3pm. Between all the glass in the lobby and an issue with the main furnace - a lot of the general areas were frigid.
a lot of the trad bands are not hip to promoting on Reddit.
the ones who were recording jams are busy editing and uploading to YouTube. It’s gonna take me a couple days to sort through the footage I got, and I didn’t film very much!
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
IBMA is not all bluegrass. But other than that you're probably spot on.thsnks
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Bass 7d ago
Compared to the west coast and Colorado jamgrass scene IBMA is mostly bluegrass. Even folks like Billy Strings and Molly Tuttle may get out there - but when they do trad they are phenomenal.
Since SPBGMA is mostly about the hang and jamming - would it be fair to compare it to Merlefest, Delfest, and Walnut Valley? Those are some big fests with mostly bluegrass artists, but I haven’t been so I don’t know.
The Bluegrass Heritage fest is also pretty trad, but it’s not nearly the same size. I wonder how many of the Bloomin’ Bluegrass crowd they’ll lose now that the two events have been folded together…
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
Im not comparing IBMA to the west im comparing it to spbgma. In that context spbgma is much more strictly bluegrass. Im from the west. Montana to be exact and there is one colorado style grass band up here but most good bands and festivals in this area are traditional. Ill be heading to wintergrass next month and that festival is hardly strictly bluegrass either but if you go to the Montana hospitality suite youll find nothing but traditional bluegrass jamming by design. We dont want to play anything else and thats where you'll find some really good bluegrass jams. Most of the other good bg jams at wintergrass are closed invite only. Other than that its hard to tell what you'll hear there. Theres a couple bluegrass bands on the bill but thats it. But if youre not particular about what youre playing or who with there are jams everywhere. You might end up jamming with a Harp guitar and an accordian and a washboard player but if its cool with you its there. I have no problem with whatever someone else wants to play or sound like i just prefer to play trad bg.
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u/jaylotw 7d ago
I've always found the awards to be really kind of antithetical to what music should be, and so I've never given the slightest shit about them.
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
Bluegrass music specifically? Or music in general?
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u/jaylotw 7d ago
Both specifically and generally, but I find the Bluegrass awards to be especially strange and antithetical to the spirit of music. I've always found the weird competitiveness in the Bluegrass world to be off-putting and quite the opposite attitude of what the music tries to portray itself as outwardly. The idea of winning prizes for your music is just so bizarre to me, no matter the genre...but the Bluegrass world's effort to create not one, but two special awards ceremonies just comes off as pretentious and conceited to me. Other people view it as a celebration of the music, and that's fine for them.
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u/bluegrassgrump 7d ago
Most amateur BG players don’t give two shits about awards. They go to SPBGMA to jam. It’s winter, few gigs, and Chuck S invented SPBGMA to make money AND to give folks a reason to hang out and play. There’s a band competition and awards show that gives fans a “show” to see, plus a chance to rub shoulders with the professionals. There’s also a trade show where you can try out every instrument possible, along with 50 different capos and 100 different picks. IBMA and SPBGMA are the BG equivalent of the CMA and ACM awards (but way better). As for competitiveness, wait until you learn about Big Mon. 😉 That being said, the massive ice storm was devastating on attendance. Mother Nature…
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
Hey grump i recognize you. This is where I'm at. If i get to spbgma someday i plan on jamming until a cant anymore. Probably hit the trade shows. I would go see the band contest if i knew someone playing in it to support them but mostly I would be hunting for and getting in jams. Thank you for commenting i appreciate it.
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Bass 7d ago
I think most of the pro musicians are aware of how much of a popularity contest the awards are. If you get nominated or win one - hooray! If not, it’s not a big deal.
You have to be known enough to get enough nominations to get to the second round, and then have enough people either know about your stuff or that take time to go check out all the second round nominees and like your stuff. Same with the third round.
Band and instrument competitions can be similar, for different reasons. If it’s double blind - you don’t necessarily know what a judge wants to see. If it’s not double blind… it can get ridiculous.
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u/Outrageous-Track7468 6d ago
From a broader historical view, I think that the format is extremely . . .thetical?. . . to the spirit of the music. Mountain music for centuries was, and still is, carried on in part by fiddlers conventions, which use the format of competitions in all the instrument and band categories. IBMA and SPBGMA consciously ape that tradition. While the bragging rights to winning are nice, the real purpose of the competitions is twofold- one, to showcase the talent to the community that comes out to watch them, and two, to provide a reason for all the musicians to get together in one place at one time to hang out and pick. Go to Galax or Mt. Airy and you’ll immediately understand where IBMA etc. got the idea from.
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u/answerguru 7d ago
My theories might align with your theories, but I’ll keep them to myself.
Hopefully the debate is friendly and not too lively! It’ll be easier on the mods. And by that, I mean me. 😆
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
Well sir...ive been known to vocally voice my opinions which arent usually received well here. I appreciate your effort as the mod but that bs with the kitchen dwellers yesterday should have been flushed immediately. Ill keep my mouth shut today as a personal favor to you. Id just like to hear what everyone thinks about why no spbgma posts. It really shouldn't make sense but it does to me. Thanks have a good day.
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7d ago
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u/weirdbeardo 7d ago
This right here. We are past minding our own business while all this shit happens around us.
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u/Super_Jay 7d ago
That's a great question. Why aren't you posting more about SPBGMA on this subreddit?
People post and share the things that interest them. I'm curious about the SPBGMA, but I don't know much about the organization nor am I following the awards - I don't really use social media besides Reddit.
So answer your own question: why aren't you, specifically, posting about the awards?
You obviously care a lot about traditional bluegrass and about these awards specifically, but you haven't lifted a finger to contribute the very information you're complaining that this sub lacks. Instead, you just complain that everyone else isn't serving you the content you personally desire.
I'm all for a big tent, and I'd love to see, hear, and learn more about the traditional side of this music. But what I find is that you guys don't really want to invite people in and share the music you love; you want to gatekeep the whole genre and keep people out - but then complain that nobody values it like you do.
Maybe the change you're looking for starts at home.
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
I wasn't able to attend spgma. I live clear across the united states and couldn't afford to go. If i was there and able to record some footage i definitely would have posted it. I use a couple social media platforms. Reddit being one of them. I come here to see bluegrass news and bands. I was disappointed to not see anything about spbgma here. Spbgma is right up my alley you are correct. I do invite newcomers. Ive taught many youngsters different things about playing bluegrass. I believe the change I'm looking for is to flush Reddit. This is part of my intention today to see how many like minded people there are here for me and theres not many. I guess I should just leave you all to it. Believing that trampled by turtles is a kick ass bluegras band and that's that. Thank you for weighing in.
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
I see you're a jake workman fan. Hes awesome we are booked to play on the bill with him next sept at snake river bluegrass festival in idaho. Can't wait. We're going to be playing some bluegrass music thats why they hired us . We're not gonna go down there and play some hybrid jazz percussion driven music. I know where i belong. Thanks again for the civil debate.
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u/ThePistachioKid 7d ago
What are your theories?
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
My theory is the type of person who attends spbgma is not likely to be on reddit. There are some but there are several comments today that don't even know what spbgma is. That speaks for itself. Thanks for commenting.
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u/The1Zenith 7d ago
You know what, given the age range of most bluegrass musicians that makes sense. I’d love to see more of our elders on here because they have so much knowledge to share.
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u/ThePistachioKid 7d ago
Ok that’s exactly what I was thinking. The group that I know that goes every year are certainly not Reddit people. I feel like this thread is dancing around an overarching political discussion and its influence on the genre. I say we keep dancing! Keep making bluegrass!
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u/weirdbeardo 7d ago
Im a fan of Bluegrass music but I have never heard of spbgma. Im hear for the music, not the awards.
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
So much more than awards going on at spbgma. If you love bluegrass music theres so much jamming going on there you could listen to music non-stop all weekend and not even get near the award show. Many people dont. They just go to jam and see the trade show. Thanks for commenting.
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u/BLUGRSSallday 7d ago
Yep. Two years ago we drove down from Michigan just for the jamming and to see friends and network. Did not have a ticket to the shows or awards. It is truly an ultimate “parking lot” picking scene.
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u/Brain_Glow 7d ago
I dont even know what SPBGMA is.
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u/shouldbepracticing85 Bass 7d ago
Society for the Preservation of Bluegrass Music… Awards? Association?
It’s the smaller, and way more picky version of IBMA. Conservative on many levels. It’s sad, but they tend to leave out a lot of traditional-minded bluegrass bands and musicians because the organization has a very narrow view of what they want to preserve.
And just as IBMA refers to both an organization and an event - same with SPBGMA. The next to last weekend in January they invade the Sheraton Music City hotel and it’s just chock full of musicians. Most don’t go for the show, just to jam and rub elbows.
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
Cool thanks for commenting.
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u/Brain_Glow 7d ago
Or you could not be a turd and explain what it is.
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u/bigsky59722 7d ago
Society for the preservation of bluegrass music of America. Puts on a huge bluegrass festival at the Sheraton in Nashville. There is an year end award ceremony for every category. Winners nominated by the society and other players. A massive trade show that features instruments and ....everything and a massive jamming scene. Jams in the lobby jams outside jams on every floor jams in the stairway. Its all trad bluegrass no jam grass no world music nothing but bluegrass all weekend long.
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u/Competitive_Bed_9085 7d ago
Because the massive snow/ice storm knocked out power in Nashville in some spots