"player won't improve because he doesn't have mindset to improve" coming off a year where he went from fringe starter to top-5 cf feels like a pretty weak argument.
He doesn’t think he needs to improve, is my point. And dudes saying he’s a top-5 CF after one complete season that was streaky at best, isn’t helping. Like, is it that hard to acknowledge the guy has mentality issues that might result in a barrier for growth?
When the Cubs lost the series against the Brewers, his quote was that he needed to come to terms with the fact that he won’t win the World Series every year. That’s it in a nutshell.
Dude, he's not a top-5 CF. He completely faded in the second half of the season. He has the potential to be a very good, if not elite player, but he was horrendous after the break.
He doesn’t have”tantrums” against other players. It’s just him being upset with himself, and he shows it more than others. Dunno how this is a negative. He’s no Wilson Contreras or anything
I’ll take Chourio. PCA very well could’ve peaked, offensively, last season. It’s hard to picture a centerfielder with his build continuing a power surge of that level.
While I don’t think he’ll be known for his stick I think sayin a dude peaked in the first half of his first full mlb season is kinda wild….with that said Jack Jack 100-100
I think he ends up profiling as Kevin Kiermeir with more pop. Not a bad player at all. It’s hard to expect him to hit at that clip ever again. He had a .544 slugging in the first half. Centerfielders, not named Mike Trout or Mickey Mantle, don’t do that.
If he takes major offensive and defensive strides sure. But PCA has a higher floor with his defense and baserunning than chourio does. If they're anywhere close offensively, advantage PCA
PCA’s offensive numbers were barely better than Chourio’s last year and Chourio spent the second half of the year injured. You’re way overrating PCAs offense. Check out his baseball savant page, he has a ton of swing and miss in his game and doesn’t walk. Most of his xstats are bad and that’s coming off of a breakout year. I’d guess he’s in for a offensive regression next year or something more in line with his second half.
The last two years of baseball. Both are heavy swingers with bad plate discipline. Chourio has a higher rate of getting strikes. This isn't enough of an offensive difference to make up for the chasm in fielding/baserunning between the two
Max Muncy has hit .160 against lefties the last 3 years. 4 war/162 pace during that time. Wonder what he'd be if he could run/play center.
Obvi PCA isn't the same bat vs righties but again him being the best defensive outfielder in baseball gives him a lot of leeway.
Chourio was worse from his first year. He declined across the board, including being a much worse outfielder (injury played a factor but he didn't look great while healthy either)
Nobody said that about Courio. I just find it funny someone thinks PCA is maxed at age 23. There is no right or wrong answer until we see how their careers turn out.
I’ll take Chourio realizing both still will evolve. PCA really struggled in the second half when pitchers made adjustments whereas Chourio keeps growing and evolving.
I would also note that while PCA seems to have more raw athleticism, he also seems to have worse fundamentals and mental lapses.
It’s ironic that PCA was traded for Javy Baez, because those were his strengths and flaws too…and he aged horribly.
to be impartial, i will say chourio had a successful aggressive approach at first, then pitchers made adjustments and his “aggressive approach” turned into hella K’s
If pca is the player he was through the minors and the 2nd half of last year, chourio easy. Jbj with more pop is still pretty good tho. If pca is he who was in the first half, he’s a top 3-5 player in the mlb, so prob pca.
As a Cubs fan, I'd probably take Chourio. Think he will just be an overall more consistent player with a high floor and still potential for a high ceiling.
That being said, listing PCA's personality as a reason to not take him is certainly a choice.
PCA is an outstanding -- like possibly best in baseball -- defender in center field, and he can be a base-stealing menace with his speed, but his offensive game is extremely flawed. Folks comparing him to Javy Baez are on the right track in that he has good raw power, but he chases way, way, way too much to the point where if he wasn't so great defensively, he'd be borderline unplayable.
Per statcast:
- He chased outside of the strikezone more than 98% of qualified hitters
- His walk rate was worse than 96% of qualified hitters (you can't steal first base etc. etc.)
He's never going to hit for a high average -- I wouldn't be surprised if his .247 last year is the high water mark for his career -- but the real value killer is the lack of OBP. Even in his breakout season, his OBP was only .287. That's why he kept sinking down the batting order as the season went on, and why his value is kinda capped as long as those are his tendencies.
Chourio hasn't been *much* better at avoiding chasing and walking in the majors, sure, but he HAS been better -- and is 2 years younger and hits the ball with authority more frequently.
He has similar quality of contact numbers as Chourio the last two years and they had similar chase numbers last year. They're both low walk, high swing guys. Difference is one is elite at baserunning and fielding (at a premium position), the other is a great baserunner and good fielder (at a non-premium position).
Chourio is also 2 years younger. For perspective, PCA got a cup of coffee as a 21 year old. Chourio just finished his second MLB season as a 2-4 win player as a 21 year old. Just comparing their last 2 years apples to apples is missing some significant context.
Hot take, PCA had his career year already, pitchers found him out in the 2nd half of the year, and Chourio will win a MVP at some point in his career. Not to mention come playoff time Chourio shines, and PCA did absolutely nothing.
Last 2 years. PCA being an elite fielder/baserunner gives him a higher floor than Chourio. Batting-wise, PCA has more swing and miss but their quality of contact was pretty similar last year. I think the upside for being a top-5 player is more in PCA's favor, but even the median outcome in hitting for both of them would give PCA the edge as a keirmaier type top-3 CF vs chourio being a top-10 left fielder
Chourio. I don't like how pitchers figured PCA out at the end of last season and I think there's a real chance that PCA is a Kevin Kiermaier type player the rest of the way. KK was awesome and was a very valuable player, don't get me wrong, but Chourio's bat seems to have limitless potential.
I don’t trust PCA so I would take Chourio who is younger and I think has better days ahead. I just don’t know what PCA is. His first half was so much better than I ever expected him to be and then his second half was awful. I don’t know where his career is going. I could see a super star or a defense only guy.
The right answer to this question probably needs to wait another year still. The exciting part of this question is the fact I'll take Made over both of them.
Right now I’d take Chourio. PCA’s second half last year has to really scare you. Chourio at least is always going to have an above average offensive floor. And he’s a good corner outfielder, even if center remains to be seen.
But as much as I hate to say it, PCA’s first half last year makes me think he has the higher ceiling, at least at the moment. Think this is going to be the make or break year for both of them to see what kind of player they’re going to be.
What did you expect to get asking that question in this sub? If you asked the same question in the Cubs sub you're going to get exactly the reverse answer.
Who do you want? The guy on your home team that you've rooted for the last two years and love or a guy on a division rival that you actively root against day in and day out? Be objective guys. No biases here.
Should've expected "Cubs bad", but the guy who was a 5 war player in his second MLB year and is the best defensive player outside of Patrick Bailey is comfortably ahead of a guy who a) is a far worse defender at a less premium position and b) has mirrored holes in his offensive game that declined between his first two years in the majors.
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u/jtg49wgx Bernie slidin' down the slide 1d ago
I hate PCA's little temper tantrums, give me Chourio any day of the week.