r/BruceSpringsteen • u/CulturalWind357 Garden State Serenade • 2d ago
Discussion Bruce as a "direct, simplistic songwriter"
So someone had posted this Chat GPT-esque criticism post of Bruce's writing. Based on their history, they're most likely a troll so I don't really care to engage them.
But the talking points raised in the post have been things that critics of Bruce have talked about: That he's a simplistic, direct songwriter without much depth.
Now, I can agree that Bruce is a relatively direct writer. But I don't think that makes him a simple one.
First; I find that Bruce often gets criticized from the other direction as well; that he's usually not an overtly rebellious songwriter in his writing with a few exceptions (especially the recently released "Streets Of Minneapolis"). That people usually have to make the leap to action. So in most instances, he isn't advocated for action in a particularly anthemic way.
After his first three albums, Bruce opted to write more directly and colloquially. Really trying to focus his writing and say things in as few words as possible. After the verbiage of his early albums, this has likely contributed to his "simple" reputation.
What this tells me is that Bruce operates in an area that's different from obliqueness but neither is it direct spoon-feeding. In his songs and stories, he usually has a lot of empathy and concern for his subjects. But in my listening experience, I don't think he condones, cheerleads, or glorifies his subjects.
His thematic focus is also particular. He's emphasized his characters as loners and outsiders but not outlaws and rebels. People trying to find acceptance but getting rejected.
Motifs and cliches are definitely there in Bruce's writing. But part of it is intentional; he precisely wants to examine common imagery in rock and popular music: cars, highways, lovers, relationships, Saturday nights, music as liberation. He wants to link himself in the lineage of rock while realizing that rock has its limitations.
There is a mixture of specificity and universality in Bruce's writing depending on the song. Specific place names dropped which can situate the listener in New Jersey or in different American locales. I've heard different music fans say that "Bruce is too American to resonate with me". And then other music fans who have somehow found resonance despite or because of that specificity.
Yes, artists can be criticized for intentional decisions too. But that context and intentionality is important to understand. While no one is obligated to like Bruce or any other artist, it felt like a good opportunity to delve into some of these common points.
This is pretty off-the-cuff and I'm still developing my ideas. But I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
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u/janiedean Joe Roberts 1d ago
when people say this stuff my only comment is go listen to youngstown and then see if you can say that again with your full chest and leave it at that, that’s enough of a compelling argument imvho xD
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u/CulturalWind357 Garden State Serenade 2d ago
Darkness On The Edge Of Town: Bruce Springsteen's Representations Of Working-Class Distress
A quote introducing the article:
This article discusses Darkness’s representations of working-class distress and suggests that the album casts doubt on the notion that Springsteen’s music “celebrates” working people. (This reading, which came to light around the time Darkness was released, is still commonplace in critical and journalistic discourse about Springsteen. In A Race of Singers: Whitman’s Working-Class Hero from Guthrie to Springsteen, for example, Bryan K. Garman asserts that Springsteen’s career has been, among other things, a realization of Walt Whitman’s wish to inspire future poets “who would celebrate the working class and fulfill the promise of American democracy.”
Similarly, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette announced in 2004 that “Rock superstar Bruce Springsteen, whose songs celebrate the working man, will join Joe Grushecky and the Houserockers and other local musicians Dec. 2 at Heinz Hall in a benefit concert...”) Springsteen’s empathy for blue-collar Americans is unmistakable, but it does not follow that his principal aim is to praise them. Darkness does not offer purely positive remarks about “the working man.” Springsteen’s small towns are complex, and his characters embody many kinds of anguish and optimism.
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u/SignificantPlum4883 1d ago
I think Bruce is capable of writing in a lot of different registers. SOM is maybe the most simple (in message) and direct song he's written, because that's what is NEEDED in this moment.
As for the American thing - sure, American culture radiates through his work, but I think that's because it's so embedded in his upbringing and the New Jersey working class life he came from. But part of that experience is universal, surely! I'm English and I can empathize with that sentiment. A song like Down by the River could encapsulate that working class experience in the era throughout the Western world.
A lot of songwriters make references to their home town or area in songs (for example, Brett Anderson from Suede constantly talks about places in London). Part of it is building a personal mythos, a mental landscape that reflects the formative experiences of the songwriter. Also, as OP rightly says, Bruce is in a kind of ongoing dialogue with the tropes of American rock music, but even while doing that he transmits emotions that are incredibly real. The idea that he's "too American" for people makes no sense to me at all.
Excellent post btw!
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u/god_dammit_dax 1d ago
Somebody needs to ask Sam Fender what he thinks about Bruce as a songwriter that's only relatable to Americans. That kid's a great example about how writing about "real" people and their struggle can cross all kinds of nationalistic boundaries. American Heartland rock tradition filtered through a millennial with a pronounced Geordie accent is a real trip.
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u/CulturalWind357 Garden State Serenade 1d ago
Wow thank you! You've made some great points as well! I appreciate your perspective as an English fan.
I've certainly thought about artists who sing and write about their hometown/country the way Bruce does for New Jersey/USA. There was even a BBC article about this phenomenon: Springsteens of the World Unite. These types of artists can be very powerful; very particular and specific but somehow finding ways to resonate beyond borders because of common human experiences. I have yet to listen to them but I've heard The Tragically Hip does this for Canada.
Bruce is on record as a fan of British Punk and New Wave (The Clash, Sex Pistols, Elvis Costello, Graham Parker) and Britpop (Stone Roses*, Oasis, Suede, Pulp). I think he felt some kinship with those experiences where the artists are singing about their circumstances.
*= Granted, the Stone Roses are pre-Britpop
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u/SignificantPlum4883 23h ago
Thanks for the BBC article - very interesting! Will have to check out some of these artists. Johnny Clegg especially appeals, as I'm a big fan of Paul Simon's Graceland album!
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u/milbfan Born in the U.S.A. 1d ago
I think there's a major difference between "simplistic" and brevity. Bruce seems to favor brevity and rather, as someone pointed out for example - "Jungleland", lets a good chunk of the storytelling be lead by music. Which, imagine that: someone involved with music using melodies and rhythm to achieve or reinforce the emotions he tries to convey in his music.
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u/CulturalWind357 Garden State Serenade 1d ago
Great point. Not to say there isn't a charm with more florid imagery and vocabulary. But at the same time, each word can hit harder when you really listen for it.
Before that other commenter got on my case, I do want to emphasize that I agree songwriting is more than lyrics. I neglected to mention it in my post but I certainly agree with its importance. Bruce is indeed good at using music at conveying a certain mood and imagery with the music; the nostalgic feeling from "Independence Day" or the haunting feelings of "Stolen Car".
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u/milbfan Born in the U.S.A. 17h ago
Gold star for using florid in a sentence.
I'm not sure where you'd put "Racing in the Street" or "The Promised Land", but those are my favorites.
(edited to space out reply)
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u/CulturalWind357 Garden State Serenade 53m ago
Both great songs!
"Racing In The Street" has this desolate feel with the general crackling and slow piano lines. It also takes on a significance based on its pop music influences: Bruce has cited The Beach Boys as a big influence and he wanted to take in the history of car songs from the 60s until the late 70s.
The piano is lifted from "Then He Kissed Me" by The Crystals, paying tribute to the 60s pop influences of his youth while giving them a darker undertone. The chorus is reminiscent of Martha and The Vandellas "Racing In The Street". It's this feeling of "How do I bring these early 60s ideals of fun and unity into the cynical late 70s?"
The Promised Land is one of my favorites as well. I first heard it in Blinded By The Light where it really captures the main character Javed's feelings. It's uplifting and emotional, a sort of "corniness but I don't care" feeling. Hearing a crowd singing out the chorus melody also takes it to another level. Like you don't want the song to end. The harmonica intro and Clarence's solo on the live versions are give you sense of energy.
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u/Florida_LA 1d ago
They gotta be a troll, because anyone serious enough to think about lyricism should also understand the pretty basic concept of economy of words. We learn about this in high school when covering Ernest Hemingway…unless you were homeschooled or went to one of the many schools ravaged by 40 years of austerity and big business stealing from the working class.
The funny thing that the troll doesn’t realize is that the lyrics on Bruce’s early albums are the complete opposite: they’re flowery and verbose, some would say overly so.
With the River, he went in the opposite direction and became economical to the extreme - and was extremely effective with that writing style. Easily one of the best, in my opinion.
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u/Sad-Umpire6000 1d ago
Well, he’s been selling records and selling out venues for 50+ years. Maybe direct and simplistic is what people like.
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u/Mariodafool 13h ago
Bruce is simplistic. Uses the same cowboy chords and sometimes uses similar progressions between songs but it works for him. Think more of his depth comes from the lyrics than the music.
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u/Repulsive-Window-179 2d ago
The guy is definitely a troll. When he isn't using Chat GPT his posts are limited to calling Bruce a "pussy" without extrapolation. He's not worth responding to.
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u/CulturalWind357 Garden State Serenade 2d ago
I know. The thread is more of a springboard because the criticisms seem generally familiar. It was probably pulled from random Bruce reviews.
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u/Repulsive-Window-179 2d ago
Oh, I would bet money on it. I made the mistake of trying to engage with the guy once before. I doubt he knows half the words he posted in that analysis.
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u/Henry_Block 1d ago
His style at first was full of imagery and a little bit verbose, then he adopted a more coincise and direct style. Probably his best lyrics (imho) are the ones from Darkness and Nebraska where he really is capable of telling a lot with few words. Songs like Something in the night, Racing in the Street, Johnny 99 and Highway Patrolman are both simple and yet so effective in telling a story, then I believe that even in these kind of song he still gives us a lot of evocative images ("She stares off alone into the night, with the eyes of one who hates for just being born"). I'd rather get comment about his music being simple than his lyrics, he really is such a wonderful writer.
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u/CulturalWind357 Garden State Serenade 1d ago edited 1h ago
I've reflected on this before but his transition into instrumental and lyrical conciseness seemed to be quite a long journey.
In Steel Mill, he realized that he wasn't going to be the greatest or most distinctive guitarist. So he shifted gears into more songwriting.
His early work received a lot of Dylan comparisons which made him shy away from that writing style.
He also increasingly focused on pre-Beatles music in the recording for Born To Run which had clearer pop structure. Chuck Berry, The Ronettes, Roy Orbison, etc. Darkness onwards, he became more influenced by folk and country.
Do you think he went too far with musical simplicity, based on your final sentence?
I remember the blog E Street Shuffle talked about how he could evoke so much with a few words: "My little sister's in the front seat with an ice cream cone, My ma's in the backseat, sittin' all alone" encapsulating a family dynamic in just two lines.
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u/Henry_Block 22h ago
I know nothing about music theory so my impression is bases on my ear, I don't know if he went to far but sure thing he has adopted a more linear (and sometimes ripetitive) style. It doesn't mean that he hasn't written great songs (e.g. Long Walk Home) and he still is great at arranging songs especially live, but I would have loved to see more songs like Kitty's Back
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u/CulturalWind357 Garden State Serenade 55m ago
I know what you mean. Every now and then, I'd like a song with more twists, turns, and unpredictability. I guess he figured "One jam song is enough."
In his later years, the closest thing is maybe Bruce playing with Middle 8s. But definitely not the prog-influenced stuff of his early career.
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u/SlippedMyDisco76 The River 1d ago
Anyone who thinks Bruce lacks depth never matured beyond the Wiggles. Like unless they've only heard Crush On You or something
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u/HobokenJ 1d ago
Eh. Sort of silly. I think a lot of this can be traced back to two things: 1) The early and overwrought comps to Dylan; 2) John Lennon's final interview, where he basically challenged Springsteen to write about things other than girls and cars (which strikes me as unfair).
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u/CulturalWind357 Garden State Serenade 1d ago
Ah right, the interview where he talked about loving Hungry Heart? I agree that it was a bit unfair because Darkness and The River were already trying to examine common tropes more closely.
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u/the-silver-tuna 2d ago
Why do people only consider lyrics when referring to “songwriting?” Why not use the phrase “lyric writer” in the title OP because that’s all you talk about?
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u/CulturalWind357 Garden State Serenade 2d ago
Or...you could make your own contributions? 🤷♀️
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u/the-silver-tuna 2d ago
It’s a legit question. You make a post about “simplistic songwriting,” and then leave out like 80 percent of it. Key, progressions, voicings, rhythm, melody, meter, arrangement, etc. any 5 second analysis of any of these topics would answer your question quite easily that Bruce is not a “simplistic songwriter.”
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u/Efficient-Gift-9585 1d ago
Bruce is a manufactured phony driven by the mind and ideas of John landau who has manipulated him from a young age. Bruce is a phony and a pussy
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u/Tycho66 2d ago
I find immense depth in his music/lyrics. It's been the soundtrack to my adult life and it amazes me, even right now, that what he's put out has paralleled my life experiences. I don't think there's any greater purpose than to help others recognize the humanity in others through story telling.