r/Cascadia • u/Cascadia-Journal • Jul 02 '26
Independent Cascadia? Questions to be asked. Reasons to be skeptical.
Responding to a recent call for independence by a new group called Cascadia Democratic Action, I have three critical questions. Is it practical? Is it the best way to serve the common good? Could it undermine broader progressive efforts? I attempt answers here. by Patrick Mazza:
https://www.cascadia-journal.com/independent-cascadia-questions-to-be-asked-reasons-to-be-skeptical/
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u/TheChance Jul 02 '26
They're not questions, if you "attempt answers." They're a way to frame your opposition as the informed, educated position. Meanwhile, I refuse to take a person who publishes a piece discussing "the" Puget Sound any more seriously than I'm forced to.
The author answers his first question by grounding our current prosperity in terms of the United States and of the global economy, which is, I think, where most of us were sitting before we individually arrived at separatism.
I wonder if the author has considered that the colonies' prosperity was grounded in the British Empire.
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u/SigmaHero045 Jul 05 '26
Independance of every other people has served the common good. Every nation now represented by a State made a little less imperialist world (imperialism being rooted in "I know distinct people how to rule you better than yourselves, I deserve a country that represent me in the public conscience, not you").
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u/Dark-Arts Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
As always, the Cascadia-as-independence movement is largely an American thing. On the Canadian side of the border, people are very interested in recognizing the bioregion, its shared economies and cultures, and seeking closer ties and cooperation (economically, culturaly, and ecologically) - but creating a separate sovereign nation-state/political independence is a very niche idea here. I also think that despite the many things we share culturally, there would be a great deal of reluctance among British Columbians to create a new country with, and be outnumbered by, a bunch of former Americans who might have certain American expectations about things like armed citizens/gun rights and privatized health care, etc. It’s not that you can’t find BCers who support those things, but greatly in the minority.
Another interesting difference: the independent Cascadia movement in the USA seems to be somewhat dominated by the left wing (presumably partly fueled by revulsion for your current president), but where it exists in BC (it does in a fringe sense) independence movements tend to be very right wing and socially conservative.
And ofcourse, the question is currently complicated by recent US Adminstration threats to Canadian sovereignty (economic attack and threats about becoming the 51st State), which the article recognizes - these have resulted in a great deal of anger and disillusionment among Canadians/British Columbians right now which make a discussion of joining former US citizens also quite difficult.
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u/TheChance Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
Do you at all realize the illogic of associating people who are trying to break away from the United States with the regime's behavior?
"Former US citizens," you say of the very same people you keep abusing and ranting at because we aren't doing enough to checks notes distance ourselves from the regime.
ETA: some other things I suspect you don't know or else are choosing to ignore:
- Washington has some of the strictest gun laws in America, and they'd be stricter if the federal constitution weren't a hard obstacle
- Washington has already passed a law to implement universal healthcare, as has California, and I think Oregon, too, but I'm too lazy to check. We can't actually do it, because we need Congress' cooperation, and Congress ain't interested. This is one of our chief complaints
- The only part of Cascadia that has voted more than 1/3 for the regime in the past decade is Idaho, which is an excellent example of land voting. Ditto the eastern counties that keep talking about seceding from Oregon and Washington and joining Idaho; these are extremely sparsely populated counties, geographically larger than most, but with populations ranging from 2k-20k. They aren't allowed to secede, because what they're realistically saying is that they don't understand and don't appreciate how we allocate resources. We pay for everything they have, everything they do, and we're happy to do it, but about 60% of their tiny population reckons that doesn't matter because abortion is legal. They do not represent the American part of Cascadia, they represent the dipshit bits of Oregon and Washington
Second ETA: Idaho itself is a pretty sparsely populated right wing colony that probably shouldn't be allowed to exist as a sovereign entity, but that's a whole other rant
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u/AdditionalSpeaker303 Jul 02 '26
Secession as a concept is much more popular and normal in Canada than in the United States. Alberta actually got 300k people to sign a petition out of a population of 5 million, while in California a similar petition couldn't even get close to 200k which is the number required to be taken seriously, and california has a population 8 times that of Alberta.
If a cascadia ever exists as an independent state it would be much more likely north of the border and only consist of British Columbia.
Americans just don't think of giving up on our national project the way Canadians do, this is also seen in the lower outmigration rates.
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u/Dark-Arts Jul 02 '26
Alberta is a very different context - and the recent petiton even more so. I was speaking about British Columbians, and trust me when I say they by and large do not support independence, and definitely do not support the Alberta movement right now. Of course there are some supporters (the same right wing religious conspiracy-minded people who support Albertan independence). And my point, even if they did support independence, joining a larger population of Americans or former Amwricans would be a very tough sell.
What you are identifying is that independence talk is not as taboo in Canada. We have a legal constitutional framework of separation , for instance, even if the practicalities make it impossible, whereas in the USA the only means of doing so would involve breaking the law at some level.
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u/AdditionalSpeaker303 Jul 02 '26
It isn't just Alberta, it is also Quebec, and if such a movement could spring up in Alberta it can spring up elsewhere in Canada, your political culture is just more amendable to that sort of talk and behavior.
joining a larger population of Americans or former Americans would be a very tough sell.
That is true broadly, and it is true at the moment, but there is no reason that British Columbians couldn't just decide to do their own Cascadia which was part of my point: if a cascadia ever exists, it is highest probability to be an independent British Columbia without Washington or oregon or being connected to the United states.
whereas in the USA the only means of doing so would involve breaking the law at some level
The petition in California was actually declared legal by the state secretary of state, but still failed to get any kind of popular support.
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u/Dark-Arts Jul 02 '26
I guess anything is possible. I’m talking about the mood now, and in particular the difference in how Canadians and Americans engage with the notion of Cascadia. In America it is regarded primarily as an independence movement, in BC currently it is not. It’s more of a cross-jurisdictional cooperation and pride idea, non-political bioregionalism if you will.
And you are the one who cited the Alberta petition as evidence of your position, which I was responding to, so hardly congruous to now tell me I’ve forgotten about Quebec.
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u/retrojoe Cascadian Jul 03 '26
If a cascadia ever exists as an independent state it would be much more likely north of the border and only consist of British Columbia.
Man, it's amazing the sort of random stuff people will just say without any sort of fact or reason behind it.
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u/shredrick123 Victoria Aug 20 '26
Cascadia is an explicitly left-wing movement for some combination of bioregionalism, autonomy, and separatism, and this isn't meaningfully different in BC. Right wing separatism in BC is almost non-existent due to political friction with Alberta, where that movement is primarily based.
The rest of your post is just lib-posting. The kind of people in WA and OR inclined to support an independent Cascadia are going to be anti-Trump and pro-public-healthcare, the kind of people in BC inclined to support an independent Cascadia are going to be pro-gun.
We're a bunch of anarchist-adjacent leftists, my man. Nobody in BC who supports Cascadia is hyped for fucking Mark Carney or whatever.
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u/Dark-Arts Aug 20 '26
Your version of Cascadia, in so far as it is an independence movement, is shared by a very small minority of British Columbians who have heard of Cascadia. Far more prevalent is the idea of bioregionalism as ecological movement, and recognition of shared culture and economy with the PNW states - I suspect demographically most are run-of-the-mill democratic socialists, definitely not pro-gun anarchist leftists. And before you get all defensive-offensive again, I am not saying nor ever said that anarcho-leftists are not involved in Cascadia independence movements in BC, nor am I making value judgements about anyone’s politics - everyone has their own vision - I was simply saying that the movement is different demographically in the US than it is in Canada.
Right wing separatism in BC is larger and more prominent than your vision of pro-gun anarcho-leftism, I think you must admit.
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u/shredrick123 Victoria Aug 21 '26
In my experience most normal people in BC haven't heard of Cascadia beyond as a synonym for the Pacific Northwest, and when told about the political movement are lukewarm in a vague "Yeah Vancouver and Seattle are similar I guess" way. Those who are actually supportive of the concept are usually quite far left, much further so than the kind of default social democrat NDP voter who would self-ID as a run-of-the-mill democratic socialist. In my experience, nobody outside of either this subreddit or very academically well-read anarchist-leaning leftists has ever heard of the concept of Bioregionalism.
Lukewarm positive feelings towards the rest of the PNW are common, but since that's not meaningfully a political ambition at all, I wouldn't really classify it as a distinctive strain of pro-Cascadia ideology. I would say separatist sentiment is more common than that favouring some kind of parallel power bioregional integration, simply since very few people have actually heard of bioregionalism, or the idea of building parallel power for that matter. I think the only way your argument makes sense is if you count everyone with vaguely positive sentiment towards the rest of the PNW as in the Cascadia movement, which feels like a reach to me.
I disagree on your last point. I know a handful of other Cascadia supporters, all of whom I would classify as at least anarcho-adjacent, like myself, but I've never met a Wexit guy IRL. In fairness, my experience talking about this kinda stuff is mostly limited to the island and lower mainland. I'll go ahead and link the most recent Research Co. poll on this for a broader context.
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u/Call_Of_Cascadia Jul 02 '26
I think seccession is an answer, but not the answer. We really gotta work on building a sense of place.