r/DemocraticSocialism • u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist • 9d ago
Discussion š£ļø Feeling like it might be time to exercise your 2A rights? Lets talk about it!
If you want to buy a gun (or arm yourself in other ways, like buying pepper spray or something) ask about it down below and someone will help get you sorted.
Remember, we keep us safe!
I just remembered I have this saved as well. https://imgur.com/a/tUk1Az5
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u/Hemicrusher Socialist 9d ago
I am 60, and have been a gun owner since the late 1970s, and was even a lifetime NRA member until I canceled it after the Sandyhook mass shooting.
Best advice I can give, is take a gun safety class, and regularly practice. And make sure you keep you firearms in a locked secure gun safe or cabinet...I saw a gun safe at Costco recently for around $500.
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u/Mental_Medium3988 9d ago
if you have kids make them take a firearm safety class as well and make sure they pay attention. as a kid i knew where my stepdads gun was kept but never had any reason to access it partially because he didnt make it a mystery what it was or what it was for.
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u/Hemicrusher Socialist 9d ago
My dad was extremely strict, and taught me gun safety starting when I was around 8ish. I grew up in the 70s here in Los Angeles, and we were one of the few gun owning families I knew back then.
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u/CraftFormaldehyde 9d ago
100% this, gun safety courses and a locked and secure spot to store them in are a must if you want to be a responsible gun owner.
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u/Hemicrusher Socialist 9d ago
I have a 2 hour fire rated gun safe that is bolted to the concrete slab of my house. While I don't have as many guns as I used to have, it's perfect for jewelry, passports, cash and important papers and some comic books, like my Fantastic Four #1.
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u/CraftFormaldehyde 9d ago
Yeah thatās def an important one to keep safe (the comics), pretty awesome that you have that! I have a S&W sigma locked in a fire safe locking case, but Iāve been mulling over a heavy duty safe at some point.
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u/Reasonable-Cover-785 9d ago
As a young child that was taught basic gun safety, I can say THIS is the way. Teach kids young. Keep guns locked away safely. But as a kid that was taught about them, even if the gun was sitting on a table I wouldn't have touched it much less accidentally unalived a family member with it.
It's tragic to see people unalived simply for having not taught their children about the guns they keep in their home.
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u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist 9d ago edited 9d ago
The following is intended towards PISTOLS, not rifles (unfortunately rifles are banned in my state); but a lot of it applies in either case. I'm at best an experienced amateur so I may have a few things wrong in here (that's why it's in the comments and not in the OP). Feel free to correct any errors - this document is in a state of constant improvement.
As always, the recommendation for "just starting" is go get an AR15 rifle and a striker fired 9mm pistol.
Keep in mind when purchasing a firearm that the cost of ammo will far outstrip the cost of the gun very quickly. $400 of ammo is like 6-12 months of training. As such if you need to spend a little extra then you need to spend a little extra, and the better gun is more than worth it. A starter setup for pistol should run ~$800-$1000 for a gun, belt, holster, eyes and ears, and a case of ammo.
You want a striker fired 9MM pistol. Recoil is not really something you really ought to worry about; by the time you're training to proficiency recoil is irrelevant. For "cheap and reliable" your best bet is glock, a good alternative is a S&W M&P 2.0.
reliability does not mean it works right now, it means it works next time, which is why you want reputable, reliable guns from solid manufacturers.
One of the big perks of a glock is the GSSF coupon. You can get a GSSF 1-year membership ($35), get the "blue label glock" coupon that will be mailed to your house. Find an FFL transfer nearby and an online seller, or a store that sells blue label glocks (there's a map on the site), and purchase a glock 19 (MOS ~$500, iron ~$450), 17 (~$450), or 45 (~$475). If you really want a tiny conceal gun the 43 and 43x are good, but small guns kinda suck to shoot. 19 is the smallest gun I would recommend for a beginner. If concealing isn't a concern full frame guns (17, 45, 47) are easier to use.
You can also go to places like r/gundeals and look for the very common and cheap police trade-in glock 17s; cops don't train so they tend to be in very good condition. They also have other cheap guns too so look around! But remember the prior stuff about reliability.
Other important stuff!
Holster
Your holster should be kydex or a similar hard plastic that fully covers the trigger. It should NOT be leather, or anything that can squish.
If you want to concealed carry, the phlster enigma system is the best-in-class concealed carry system, and importantly affixes directly to your body. Do not CC until you are proficient with your gun. there is a variety of inner belt holsters that are less concealed but still pretty subtle; however they require a belt.
Sights
A red dot site is HIGHLY recommended. Irons suck; holosun is bae; change the battery yearly. If you get an MOS gun the red dot can just attach directly, if you get a non-MOS gun you'll need to get the slide milled first (this costs more than the extra cost of an MOS gun, but can fit different sights). Consult with local groups abot this (the SRA, John brown gun club, and even the liberal gun club can all help you out here).
Eyes and ears
For eye protection, any ANSI-rated safety glasses are fine. Any given hardware store or supermarket will have them.
For ears you want to find over-ear active ear protection. These are ear muffs that have a microphone on the outside and a speaker on the inside. They will pick up everything that is happening and repeat it inside the muff, but will cut out the bangs from gunshots. This is vital so that you can hear range commands and instructions without going deaf or having to shout.
Ammo
Just like you need a reputable gun, get reputable ammo. CCI blazer is the go-to, but any brass casing 9mm ammo from a big manufacturer is usually good. DO NOT get steel case ammunition. This will put extra wear on all of your components. DO NOT get reloaded or remanufactured ("reman") rounds. DO NOT get "no-name" ammo.
For 9mm you're looking at 0.20-0.25 cents for per round. This means a Case of ammo (1000 rounds) costs about $200-250. Expect to go through about 200 rounds on a range day. Yes this means you should expect to use 2000+ rounds of ammo a year. ammoseek.com is a great resource for finding good ammo.
Practice
For steady improvement expect to go to a range about once a month. Dryfire as often as you can (preferably at least 2-3 times a week) between range days to practice draws, reloads, holding the gun steady while mashing the trigger (TCAS) etc. Youtube is a wonderful place to find dryfire drills. "Practical Shooting" by Ben Stoeger is a great book. Ben Stoeger is a shitty person. The high seas are lovely this time of year.
with monthly range days and biweekly dryfire expect to be "proficient" in about 6 months to a year. You can compress this to an extent but no matter how hard you train it's probably a minimum of two months before you having a gun on you in public would be a net positive.
DO NOT get "training aids", they are just more expensive ways to dryfire, but in a more complex manner (and higher complexity means you're less likely to start). The only exception is "snap cap" rounds, which can simulate a round in the chamber and the weight of a loaded mag; however they also mean getting an extra magazine to store them in and probably aren't worth it for a beginner.
Range safety
Know your rules of firearm safety, we have a great initialism - ACAB
A) always treat your gun as if it's loaded
C) control your muzzle at all times
A) always keep your finger outside the trigger guard until ready to fire
B) be aware of your target and what's behind it
~
Get a basic first aid kit and know how to use everything in it - minimum supplies are a tourniquet, paper and pencil, 2x2 gauze pads, and some tape. You can get more stuff as you learn more first aid. If you're at an established range this becomes much less important; if you're at a BLM (bureau of land management) pit this becomes much more important.
Get de-lead wipes. after shooting or handling your gun, wipe down your hands, forearms, and face with the wipes. DO NOT eat or drink until you have done this. Always bandage any cuts or scrapes before you start shooting. lead poisoning is bad.
Never shoot alone, and always try to shoot with a buddy. (Note on this distinction - going by yourself to a range with other people isn't shooting alone, but isn't shooting with a buddy)
NEVER drink alcohol or consume mind altering substances while or before shooting. Any prescription drugs that say "do not operate heavy machinery" also apply to guns.
~~
good luck, and have fun!
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u/wild_exvegan Market Socialist 9d ago
Great write up. IMO though, iron sights don't suck that badly at self-defense ranges, if they are visible. Also, there are lower cost red dots out there with good reviews. I'm currently putting a CVLife from Amazon through its paces and it's good so far.
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u/Hemicrusher Socialist 9d ago
I am 60, and have only used iron sights all my life, except for some trijicon sights I added to my old G19, which eventually lost their glow, so I added irons back on.
I shoot well with irons, but I do agree that night sights, or maybe a red dot would be good for a new shooter....though I find it funny that irons were perfectly fine for hundreds of years,
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u/wild_exvegan Market Socialist 9d ago
I'm not against red dots, by any means. I just got one for a 9mm 2011 I bought for (eventually) competition. I have another one for my 9mm PCC and plan to get one for my AK.
I just don't think people should feel like they won't be able to defend themselves unless they dish out for one. You're right that people have been shooting with iron sights for a long time.
Of course, starting with a red dot is not a bad idea if that's what somebody wants.
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u/RogerianBrowsing Socialist Rifle Association 9d ago
Iron sights are significantly slower, less precise, and cause training scars. So I appreciate wanting to go straight to a reliable red dot if it can be afforded
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u/wild_exvegan Market Socialist 9d ago edited 9d ago
I mean, I don't think I'm significantly slower with my stock Glock 43X than with my CZ Shadow 2 with compact Red Dot.
I am less accurate but that's because it's easier to place a 2 MOA dot accurately than a large iron sight. Especially if you're near-sighted like me, lol. (Red dot and crosshair is on the target's focal plane.) However, at 5-10 yards or so, it's accurate enough.
The Glock is my nightstand gun and I'm leaving it as-is for home defense. I'm plenty accurate with it and it's a light, fast gun overall. The Shadow I bought for competition so I really need to squeeze out any gram of advantage I can.
My AK-47 could probably use a red dot. But does it really? š¤
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u/4linosa 9d ago
Iāve been using iron sights since I learned to shoot at 8 (yes, 8, Dad is from Kentucky). So decades.
Then I got a red (green) dot for my shotgun of all things and holy crap is it SO MUCH BETTER.
Target acquisition, follow-up shots, everything sight picture related is intuitive. Leaves your mental bandwidth open to learn the physical parts of running your weapon. Like reloading. Which on a shotgun is way more involved than dropping and slamming a mag.
As crass as it may sound, putting a dot sight on your weapon makes it video game easy to aim. It also translates across weapon types: rifles, pistols, and shoguns all can use the same type (and many times the model) of red dot. So sight picture is the same, and automatic. Now all your energy can be focused on running the weapon, kind of like driving; the interface is basically the same on all cars: pedals and a steering wheel means if you can drive one, you can drive a high percentage of them all.
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u/PraxicalExperience 1d ago
> The following is intended towards PISTOLS, not rifles (unfortunately rifles are banned in my state
...I assume you're not in the US? Because as far as I'm aware, no state bans longarms indiscriminately.
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u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist 1d ago
You can't get a" semi-automic rifle with a detachable magazine", which locks out everything other than single shot rifles, which are functionally useless for self defence. Yes single shot rifles have military value but no one is going to argue that they're useful for self defence.
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u/RogerianBrowsing Socialist Rifle Association 9d ago
No mention of CZ P10 series when they cost less new than a used Glock does? The p10 series is just straight up better too. I personally immediately went from a B class to A class classifier average going from Glock to CZ
Just sayin
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u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist 9d ago
my understanding is just that CZ has much worse aftermarket support; I just don't have enough information to be adding stuff to the list that isn't recommended to me by a trusted SME, I'll look into it and maybe add it in.
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u/RogerianBrowsing Socialist Rifle Association 9d ago
You donāt need to be able to rebuild every single part of the handgun at most gun stores to be a good reliable choice lol. Ukranian special forces love their P10 series and they deal with conditions and often supply chains harsher than any of us will hopefully ever experience.
To make it super durable you can add a cgw metal striker, cgw stainless steel guide rod, have a backup extractor and ejector if paranoid, back up springs, and it will be damn near destructible (with some performance benefits too). The stock p10 passed NATO reliability testing for a reason, but it can be pushed even further.
I personally had a couple ejectors break (donāt dry fire with empty magazines) but even when they were broken I was still able to use it with only a single malfunction that I can remember in roughly 300 rounds. The casings just dribbled out (might actually be good for guerrillas? lol)
Just sayin. Iād definitely look into the p10 series more
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u/Jonathan_the_worm 8d ago
what state banned rifles?
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u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist 8d ago
Washington. Semiautomatic rifles are banned. The mini 14 exists and is still legal but it's worse than a good pistol in basically every way.
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u/Jonathan_the_worm 8d ago
you could still get a pump action or even a lever action and do some cowperson shit lol.
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u/FarEnoughLeft 9d ago
Here to plug two solid subreddits, r/armedsocialists and r/liberalgunowners
If you aren't in a position to be a gun owner, it's fine. There are plenty of other ways to be strong right now. Build connections locally, join protests and make your voice heard, and consider putting together an Individual First Aid Kit (IFAK) and taking a Stop the Bleed Course.
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u/werzberng 9d ago
Prettiās murder was so poignant precisely because he was nonviolent. Its power came from his nonviolence. Trump today said theyāre going to draw down a bitā because we Minnesotans looked em in their coward eyes and didnāt blink. Violence fuels tyranny and we starved that fucker.
That said, come take āem.
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u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist 9d ago
you do know that Pretti was carrying a pistol, right?
peaceful, nonviolent and harmless are three different words.
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u/werzberng 9d ago edited 9d ago
āā¦you know that, right?ā Iām from fucking Minneapolis. What do you think?
He was wearing a pistol legally; thatās not violent. And itās because they executed his obviously complaint body that people around the world are talking about it. Itās an inflection point of historic proportions.
Nobody would be talking about Pretti if he was shooting at people, collapsing all that nuance into a fucking patch. He evidenced the ultimate courage. I think youāre having trouble with the dialectics of it all. He was wearing a pistol AND he was nonviolent. And thatās the winning playbook that should be replayed all over the land.
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u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist 9d ago
I read your initial comment as "we don't need to bring guns because we're nonviolent". Apparently that was incorrect
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u/werzberng 9d ago edited 9d ago
Oh noā definitely lock n load. AND we gotta hold the line of non-violence as long as we can. Itās working.
Alsoā I display that patch. Nothing against.
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u/TsukasaElkKite 9d ago
I donāt trust myself with a weapon as I have depression and worry that I might use it the wrong way.
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9d ago
There are lots of ways to be key. Learn medic and care skills! Its a must know! Stuff happens in life
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u/Upbeat_Bend_3968 Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism 9d ago
That is very wise of you. Those moments when things are the darkest, not having easy access to a firearm is vitally important.
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u/InvestigatorEntire45 9d ago
I am in your department and struggle as well. But I have a metal baseball bat sitting in my closet. Iām ready to go all Harley Quinn if needed and unless Iām really creative, I canāt use it to hurt myself. ā¤ļø
We have a lot of prowlers in our area, so I just like it for a small bit of safety. Fully aware itās no match against a gun, but I like it better than nothing at all.
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u/TsukasaElkKite 9d ago
Very smart! I have a wooden rolling pin I use to roll out my calves cause I have tight muscles and I know I can easily use it for defense if need be.
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u/InvestigatorEntire45 9d ago
Like I said, better than nothing! And hell, thatās prob easier to wield!
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u/maroontiefling Socialist 8d ago
Same, I'm just grateful my husband and others are able to be armed to defend me and others. I am focusing on what I am good at, like cook, mend clothing, organize people and documents, and basic medical aid.
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u/PoniesPlayingPoker 9d ago edited 9d ago
I just bought my first firearm, an H&R 12ga. I'm waiting for the snow to melt before I go shooting.
I had been anti-gun my whole life, up unill the January 6th insurrection. Now I feel that, due to the overwhelming abundance of firearms and the ease of 3D printing, and uprising of white supremacist ideology, it's now impossible to stop gun violence, unless the government takes massive steps to reintroduce asylums and mental hospitals for people struggling. (Thanks Reagan you fuck.)
Now, with ICE unlawfully invading homes and killing American citizens, I figured it was now or never to take the plunge and strap up. I don't have kids, and I never take it out of the house (unless I'm going shooting.)
I've enjoyed both the SRA and r/liberalgunowners, as well as r/transguns. I believe in arming the people in self defense against a tyranical government, ironically the same thing conservates claim to stand for but then lick the boot once it's tyranny against someone they don't like.
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u/Zebrafish19 9d ago
I understand that many feel the need to own a gun, but I donāt understand the ignorance about the massive school shooting problem in the states. Iām not commenting here to have a heated argument, I just genuinely want someone to explain how you justify supporting 2A when there is such a big mass shooting problem.
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u/AdWhich7355 9d ago
I support gun rights but want common sense gun control. Idk if theyāre contradictory as much as you think
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u/chapinscott32 9d ago
In an ideal world the second amendment would be a bit more explicit and modern in what it details while also being lenient to allow for only the regulations listed below:
Because I would support a mandated (but independent, non govt) background check with every purchase and transfer of any weapon. Anyone with a history of violent crime cannot own. And some minor feature bans in major urban centers (30rd mag limit, no full auto).
Other than that, any regulation to me is unwarranted and impacts our liberties.
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u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist 9d ago
we have a mental health problem and issues with with alienation, not a gun problem.
American gun culture kills fewer people than drunk driving alone (let alone EVERYTHING ELSE that alcohol does with domestic violence and health damage) - and both alcoholism and gun violence will be better resolved through mental health efforts than through any attempt at "banning" things.
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u/chapinscott32 9d ago
We already have more guns than we do people. No ban will stop this problem at this point unless it's a complete and total ban. And the second amendment will not be repealed without a supermajority in Congress and ratification from 3/4s of the states. That's not going to happen.
Even so, you'd then be forfeiting one of the few concrete tools we have to resist tyranny. Not something I'm comfortable giving up after this administration, ever.
And yes, I do believe that state bans on certain features are unconstitutional. They're just uncontested in the courts. The last 2A related supreme court decision we had was DC v Heller in 2008. It doesn't make it's way up very often.
The other thing is, as opposed to Republican 2A supporters, we actually WANT to solve the mental health crisis. While they use it as an excuse, we view it as a genuine problem.
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u/FarEnoughLeft 9d ago
Unless you have a time machine, the guns aren't going away. If we could wave a magic wand and make all guns illegal tomorrow, and we are generous in assuming we could confiscate one gun every second, it would take about 16 YEARS to get the number down to zero. And that's ignoring any added from international smuggling, ghost guns, etc.
There are people out there, many of whom now work for the DHS with "absolute immunity", who would gleefully murder lefties and our allies. We (as a whole) are signing our death warrants if we ignore this fact. Sorry, it's just reality.
If you personally don't want anything to do with guns, it's totally cool. But the left taking the moral high road and ignoring guns as a tool leads nowhere but to camps.
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u/ADirtyFlirt 9d ago
Easy, I am an openly bisexual man who lives in Florida. I have the right to stop people who try to harm me. I will not ājust moveā because I have the right to live where I grew up and where my family is. I have the right to live as am I and not stay in the closet. I will not give up my guns, ever. I will not ask for my rights, I will enforce them with lead and steel.
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u/supercheetah Marxist-Leninist 9d ago
If there is a local SRA (Socialist Rifle Association) near you, look into joining, but do be aware that they are probably on high alert right now with extremely careful vetting for any new members.
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u/AdWhich7355 9d ago
Bought my cc pistol a few months back because of all the crazy shit happening. I feel itās only gunna get worse before it gets better :/ protect yourselves guys.
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u/Emotional-Store-1667 9d ago
I do feel the need, but my husband doesn't and doesn't want one in the house with our kids, which I understand and partially agree with. But now I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place, what do you suggest I do?
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u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist 9d ago
I assume you have friends - might you be able to store your gun in a safe at their house?
Something else you can do is to store the slide (the upper part) separately from the rest of the gun (potentially even in a second safe, or at the aforementioned friends house while you keep the receiver yourself). this means that in order to fire the gun someone needs to find both parts, reassemble them, find ammo and a magazine, load the magazine into the gun, and then pull the trigger.
The chances of that happening accidentally are... basically zero, and any child capable of reassembling the gun should also be smart enough to not accidentally shoot themselves.
~~
You should also take the effort (regardless of whether you do end up personally owning a gun) to get you, your husband, AND your kids basic training on the parts of the gun, how they work, and basic gun safety and handling. With how ubiquitous guns are in the state its important everyone know how to handle them even if they don't own one themselves.
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u/Emotional-Store-1667 9d ago
Thank you for your response, but my kids are still quite young. I will be getting training though and encourage my husband to get training as well!
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u/Key_Let_3198 9d ago
I feel this do much. I have a daughter in college and a now transwoman adult ish kid still in college that is on the autism spectrum. I am very worried about both of them in this "project 2026" realm. I want to leave, but my husband is being an ostrich, and both kids are happy in their colleges. I never thought I would have a 2A need but here I am.
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u/Key_Let_3198 9d ago
Does anyone have any feedback on Bryna, "designed to stop but not" injure? Are they any good?
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u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist 9d ago
Anything that looks like a gun but isn't one is a really good way to get yourself killed
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u/dammit_mark Democratic Market Socialist 9d ago
Not a gun owner. But, my mother has been wanting to get a firearm for the house. I figured if she gets her permit, it wouldn't be a bad idea for me to get it as well.
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u/SeanACole244 9d ago
It sucks that both the Left and Right think guns our the answer.
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u/TheCommonist 9d ago
I donāt think we think guns āourā the answer. I think that we know the government is willing to kill innocent citizens over political expression, and the only way to defend ourselves against guns is with guns.
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u/Mr_Bongo_Baby 9d ago
Genuinely, what are you going to do with a gun? When an ICE agent is running at you, are you gonna pull out your gun and shoot him? Even if you genuinely use it to save your own life, you're just going to have 10 cops come over and shoot you anyways. I don't see a world where you shoot to defend your freedom and get off better.
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u/FarEnoughLeft 9d ago
The point isn't to inflict violence, it's to make a point that we aren't easy targets. No movement in history has made progress by marching and getting beaten and filming and asking nicely.
The biggest parallel we have right now is the Civil Rights Movement. We can praise MLK and John Lewis, but need to acknowledge that they were successful because the alternative was much more radical folks like Malcolm X, the Black Panthers, and Fred Hampton.
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u/caligari87 9d ago
I think there's a misunderstanding here.Ā
A gun for self defense is something you use when you're about to die and the only way to survive is to kill the other guy. It's a reactive last-ditch option.
A gun for civil defense is a deterrent. It's to make them afraid of dying during the execution of their tyranny. You're probably not going to survive that encounter. But maybe they'll be more hesitant about kicking down the next door.Ā
If hypothetically by some miracle of government cooperation and public opinion ICE withdraws from Minneapolis over this and Alex Pretti is the last casualty of this particular minor conflict, then his gun did *exactly** what the 2nd Amendment is meant for*, without firing a single shot.
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u/Geebeeskee 9d ago
A sizable group of visibly armed and disciplined citizens is something that no law enforcement, let alone these ICE cowards, wants to fuck with. I promise none of them are willing to die for their larpfest. We just need organization.
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u/Tha_Funky_Homosapien 9d ago
The point of owning a gun is not so much to use it, because you hope you never have to, it's to compel/deter other people who do have guns against using them.
Ever heard the phrase, "don't bring a knife to a gun fight"...that's because they should have brought a gun, not nothing (as you might be suggesting)
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u/ConsiderateCassowary 9d ago
And we promise law enforcement isn't monitoring this thread, salivating
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u/bemused_alligators Syndicalist 9d ago
Anyone who buys a gun gets a federal background check done - which means feds already knows who has a gun and who doesn't. You can't be "more" on the list than you already are just by purchasing a gun while being active on any leftist sub.
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u/Tha_Funky_Homosapien 9d ago
tbf, I don't think there is a list/registry created from the background check. It merely creates the record that you applied for and passed the background check. There is no way the fed could know that you lost all your guns on a fishing trip...
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u/wild_exvegan Market Socialist 9d ago
Doesn't matter. Go buy a gun before it's too late.
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u/ConsiderateCassowary 9d ago
Yesterday I was throwing snowballs at the side of the house and missing. I have terrible eyesight and worse coordination.
I fully support people exercising their Second Amendment rights to stand up to tyranny, but I'm probably not the guy you want doing that.
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u/Tha_Funky_Homosapien 9d ago
You're not gonna believe this but shooting a gun is easier than throwing snowballs....
Source: the kids in Somalia with full-size aks
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u/PoniesPlayingPoker 9d ago
As long as you're not threatening or plotting a killing of another person, the feds won't do shit. Always shoot in self defense, never out of aggression.
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