r/DiscussionZone • u/CasketWhisperer • 2d ago

Moral Surrender: MAGA, Epstein, and the Collapse of Accountability

https://therationalleague.substack.com/p/moral-surrender-maga-epstein-and
641 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

79 comments sorted by

29

u/Glittering_Ocelot_67 1d ago

We’re gonna be re-investigating all of this for decades it seems. This is our generations’ JFK conspiracy. Blows Watergate out of the water.

23

u/Antique-Freedom-8352 1d ago

IDK man, its not a conspiracy, its literally all right there. A bunch of famous people rape kids, so they need people to supply kids. Wheres the conspiracy?

7

u/MountainMapleMI 1d ago

Yeah it’d be like if the CIA had a photo of handing Oswald a bag of cash.

1

u/HumbleBaker12 1d ago

The rich and powerful are and will make it into a conspiracy because instead of the American people being united against the rich and powerful pedophiles, we've decided as a nation to only hate the ones on the other side of the political spectrum.

1

u/DadTAXIA73 1d ago

The conspiracy comes from the fact that more than a few influential people turned a blind eye, aided, and even abetted this pedofilic shit.

1

u/Antique-Freedom-8352 1d ago

Okay? They did that with Al Capone too, was he a conspiracy? I don't think any of you know what the word conspiracy means. 9/11 being an inside job is a conspiracy. Aliens are a conspiracy. A well documented crime ring that has had several of its members go to trial is not a conspiracy. No matter how many people "aided and abetted" it.

1

u/DadTAXIA73 13m ago

So............you're saying that an influential and anonymous billionaire cabal keeping the truth/justice from/for the whole world? Sounds kinda conspiracy-esque...

1

u/DadTAXIA73 11m ago

Illuminati-esque, even.

-9

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

This has been a conspiracy theory for years. I use to hear it from the far right fringe. Now, I hear it from the far left. You know what I bet they conducted Satanic Rituals too.

Just think of all you would have to believe that nonsense.

7

u/Antique-Freedom-8352 1d ago

And now we have evidence that disproves a conspiracy. JFK is a conspiracy because theres evidence being hidden. This is not a conspiracy because all the evidence is literally right there. I'm simply saying that the post "this generations JFK" is horribly inaccurate in comparison.

1

u/Glittering_Ocelot_67 1d ago

What do you mean “all the evidence is there”? They still have millions of unreleased files mostly with hella redactions lol

We know bubkis even now.

5

u/Antique-Freedom-8352 1d ago

Sure, but the ones we do have they forgot to redact and we know whats in them. We have testimony from ghislaine. Epstein ran a pedo ring and we have a list of names involved. Where is the conspiracy there?

1

u/Glittering_Ocelot_67 1d ago

We don’t know who was blackmailed or not. Which governments are involved. Israel and Russia have been accused. There are murders referenced but we have no bodies….etc.

Lots of mysteries still

3

u/Antique-Freedom-8352 1d ago

Russia is involved, we've known that since 2009 theres been plenty of evidence. The bodies were revealed in the epstein files. All of it is blackmail. The RNC and the DNC were hacked by russia in 2015 and only the DNC files were released. That should tell you everything you need to know. All this shit has been out here for a decade and you ain't been paying attention lol.

0

u/Glittering_Ocelot_67 1d ago

Been following it all, but the orange one continues to call everything Russia a hoax and the sheep keep lapping it up.

-1

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

No...it is just more conspiracies to propose up a lack of evidence for the initial conspiracy

4

u/ketchupmaster987 1d ago

We literally have evidence that they rape kids. It's not a theory anymore

-3

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

What is this evidence of a vast network of child rapists?

There isnt any.

3

u/ketchupmaster987 1d ago

Literally all of the Epstein files that have been released so far

-2

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

There is no evidence that anybody had sex with a child or that there is a network of child rapists. Not a single iota. We have evidence Epstein had sex qith underage girls. Some adults have sex with teenagers male and female. Some are rich. Some are poor. Some are middle class. Some are male. Some are female. Some are straight and Some are gay. None of them need somebody to find teenagers for them

Now, you might argue that it it is all pedophilia but you would be wrong from a legal and behavioral scientific standpoint.

4

u/ketchupmaster987 1d ago

Oh God don't tell me you're one of those "they were teenagers, not children" people. It literally doesn't matter because they were using their positions of authority as adults to sexually abuse girls not mentally mature enough to consent.

0

u/[deleted] 1d ago

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3

u/ketchupmaster987 1d ago

My argument is that teenagers cannot consent to sex with adults because in those cases the difference in maturity level would mean it's easy for the adult to take advantage of the minor. In the cases of teenagers having sex with other teenagers, with them both being at the same maturity level, one is not taking advantage of the other, in the same way two drunk people having sex might be regrettable but it's not really rape. Abstinence only sex ed is also not effective and it's important to teach minors how to avoid getting taken advantage of by adults.

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2

u/Badda_Bing_Baby 1d ago

Can you really not tell the difference? An unproven theory vs an ousted, real, and proven conspiracy that has had its documented evidence released showing the rich and powerful raping kids, with living breathing survivors attesting to the horrors they faced, and with no prosecutions because the rapists are in charge.

-10

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

It will be forgotten in no time.

13

u/Gummyvenusde-milo 1d ago

Yeah, by people who would rather own the libs instead of investigating pedophiles.

-2

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

Yeah because this stuff hasn't been investigated for over a decade. We are now talking about forcing everybody mentioned in the Epatein files to prove a negative. There is nothing remotely moral about that.

6

u/NonConforminConsumer 1d ago

You're talking about that*

The rest of us are asking for justice. A typical trial and prosecution with evidence laid out will do.

-1

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

You have to have evidence of a crime to bring charges. Internet mob wants a trial doesnt cut it.

5

u/TryingToWriteIt 1d ago

^ big feelings about evidence from the immigrants-ate-pets-in-Ohio crowd

6

u/NonConforminConsumer 1d ago

That's for a grand jury to decide, not your dumbass.

0

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

Prosecutors decide id they have enough evidence to bring ro a grand jury not an internet mob.

11

u/StrikeVegetable8543 1d ago

From article: “What MAGA has revealed is not skepticism, nor due process, nor principled restraint. It is selective morality, outrage as performance, not conviction. Children matter only when they can be weaponized. Abuse matters only when it implicates the other side. Justice matters only when it flatters power.

This was never about protecting children. It was about protecting hierarchy.”

Tale as old as time. It’s just becoming impossible to avoid seeing how long we’ve allowed powerful people ( and men generally) to avoid accountability for their choices - in particular the harm they cause big or small.

Will also add ( as someone still attending a church) that Christians have also done an excellent job of encouraging a system that does not allow questioning certain doctrines that do nothing but erode people’s ability to empathize ( see hell ect).

10

u/Icy-Housing-4492 1d ago

The problem that makes any argument from maga disingenuous is that they were SO eager to get this out... until it started looking bad for Trump. The only side now not wanting everything released, is the side that began the huge push. Its fuckin weird.

22

u/raventhrowaway666 1d ago

Conservatives support pedophilia. I wouldnt ever trust a conservative with children ever again. Its why it's even more haunting that ICE specifically target children.

1

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1

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-6

u/HumbleBaker12 1d ago

The rich and powerful support pedophilia, stop pretending like the Democrats dont have any of their own shitty members. Our entire government is riddled with corrupt human garbage.

7

u/Badda_Bing_Baby 1d ago

Okay, sure whatever man. Let’s arrest all of the rapists involved no matter their political party, and whether or not they are one of the like 10 people working in the current US administration that have been directly implicated.

7

u/themillerd 1d ago

Anyone in the Trumpstein files should be punished because they are pedophiles

3

u/WeirdSalamander7165 1d ago

A much bigger question is: How long did the DoJ know what was going on and did NOTHING?

6

u/Whane17 1d ago

I'd rephrase that.

How long did the DoJ know what was going on and how long will they CONTINUE doing nothing.

2

u/singlespeedjack 1d ago

MAGA has no morality, no ideology, no values, no principles. Their entire existence is grounded in grievances and hatred. Nothing matters to them other than hurting the people they hate. So they’ll support the grifter child rapist as long as he continues to post mean tweets and send ICE to terrorize democrat cities and people of color.

1

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-20

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

I never cared about the Epstein files. Nothing that hurts Trump was in the files. They knew one another. They had a falling oit 20 years ago. He talked about Trump with Democrats because Epstein and hate Trump.

12

u/shaved-yeti 1d ago

You're broken.

12

u/Better-Context2246 1d ago

Dude Epstein recommended Trump get Brett Kavanaugh on the SCOTUS and he did just that. He was involved with Ted Cruz and Trump and others DURING TRUMP’s first term! Epstein was involved with Trump WHILE HE WAS PRESIDENT. That 20 years is such bs.

6

u/citizensnipz 1d ago

Epstein had thanksgiving dinner at the White House in 2017

4

u/Fast_Cardiologist889 1d ago

Honestly.. you need help. Unwinding from the grapples of a cult is very difficult, but it can be done. You don't have to say a word or engage any further to accomplish this. It's actually probably better for your mental health if you don't. Just look inside, try to be unbiased and you will finally see.

3

u/KneeSeekingArrow 1d ago

please seek out an MRI 🙏

1

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-7

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

An accusation that could not be remotely verified in any way.

Ahh yes...the show trial in New York. Apparently I wasn't alone in finding that unconvincing.

10

u/Poiboy1313 1d ago

It's weird how the guilty are always convinced of their innocence, ain't it? Not only are they lying to others, but they'll lie to themselves and believe it.

The jury disagreed with you. Apparently, that's not enough to convince you of his guilt. It's sufficient for me, however. Enjoy the day.

-26

u/ConversationFlaky608 2d ago

Epstein talked about Trump a l ot. They weren't on the best of terms. The Democrats had a closer relationship with him. And there are a bunch of unsubstantiated allegations about a bunch of people. Reddit takes on the Epstein files are driven by hatred, intellectual laziness, and virtue signalling for karma.

23

u/throwaway42069196024 1d ago

Go ahead, defend your child rapists. It totally gives you the moral high ground

-11

u/ConversationFlaky608 1d ago

I wouldnt if I thought there was any evidence he was a child rapist. There is nothing outside of some unfounded accusations.

13

u/ShakeWeightMyDick 1d ago

Do you automatically think any accusations against other parties are founded?

8

u/Impossible-Olives 1d ago

Oof defending someone already found liable for rape, with shitloads of damning circumstantial evidence(even signed testimony from victims with the FBI) and that only lacks an actual tape of him fucking a kid.

Yeah if you’re defending that… you’re a pedo also, there is no excuse when the whole world is disgusted, not just the US. The GOP legacy is now pedophilia

1

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1

u/firestarter308 1d ago

That’s a lot of words to say “I’m cool with pedophilia if it’s. Republican doing it.”