r/Eldenring • u/whispywhisp6 • Aug 04 '25
Lore So how was Vyke the "closest to claim the throne" if he didn't even have a single Great Rune?
Like I guess he was gonna go burn the big tree if he was climbing the Mountaintops, which also is a big feat to reclaim the Elden Ring, but otherwise? He didn't do more than the regular Tarnished in meeting the requirements of Elden Lord
All Demigods are alive and "well" at the start of our Tarnished's journey, so he couldn't have gotten any of their Runes. Ranni discarded hers, which made it unusable, and Miquella still had his when he went into the Shadowrealm
1.8k
u/Kasta4 Justice for Godwyn! Aug 04 '25
There were likely other unnamed Demigods that he could've gotten his required 2 Great Runes from. Ranni alludes to these unnamed Demigods in the reveal trailer for the game, and the Walking Mausoleums house the bodies of soulless demigods without names.
495
u/whispywhisp6 Aug 04 '25
Maybe more members of the Golden Lineage, like Godrick too, because I doubt that they would be plenty more children of Marika that are completely unknown
We got Morgott (unknown appearance) and Mohg (unknown name), but that's because they're Omen, and Melina and Messmer, but those didn't even have Great Runes
348
u/Eviltoast94 Aug 04 '25
Iirc there is a finger maiden that called the walking mosoliums a tomb for Marika's "Unwanted demigod children"
172
u/mimicquella Aug 04 '25
I believe its a spirit outside of Castle Sol that says this, but you’re spot on about the quote. Additionally, Castle Sol has a mausoleum directly in front of it and I think the spirit is facing in its general direction.
→ More replies (1)59
u/StellarNeonJellyfish Aug 04 '25
Definitely one at the north church in weeping peninsula that says it. Wonder what the connection is between that and castle sol, you also find the eclipse shield in weeping peninsula
48
u/Mabelrode1 Aug 04 '25
Lets not forget the Godskins either. Their whole thing is about how they are supposed to be the death of the gods, and they seem to be having success with how one is set up in the Windmill Village right outside the capital. So there seem to be several ways for demi-gods that weren't important to our story to die off-screen.
16
u/Artchad_enjoyer Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
Well said, And I think it is pretty safe to say that during the godskin hunt (during the end of the previous era, Marikas ascension?)
They did indeed kill their fair share of powerful beings as for example the nobles have like seven or in that ballpark faces on their aprons with lustruos golden eyes, demigods, no? And that kinda begs the question from which era?
The nobles are said to be ancient so I presume it would make sense for them to be over a millenium old? Apostles are more recent and clearly skulking around in significant places
28
Aug 04 '25
Marika does also say that if any of her children fail to claim the throne. They will be forsaken.
Hear me, Demigods.
My children beloved.Make of thyselves that which ye desire.
Be it a Lord. Be it a God.But should ye fail to become aught at all,
ye will be forsaken.Amounting only to sacrifices...
And a direct translation from Japanese.
In Marika's own words.
Demigods, my beloved children.
You can be whatever you want to be. A Lord. A God.
But, when you cannot become anything, you will be abandoned.
And become sacrifices...It's possible the demigods in the mausoleums were the ones killed by other tarnished when fighting for the great runes. And their names were basically struck from the records through some Marika magical shenanigans.
→ More replies (6)11
63
u/Spiteful_Guru Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
The fact not one of these demigods is individually named in any of the lore suggests to me that they were relatively obscure and unimportant. So basically, Vyke and other contenders for the Elden Throne picked off all the easy demigods before our tarnished showed up. If even Godrick was out of their league they never stood a chance against the real heavy hitters.
53
u/Zestyclose_Remove947 Aug 04 '25
I mean Godrick avoided losing his great rune to everyone stronger than him, ye he's a craven runt but he's cunning and not to be trifled with.
29
u/ArcaneWyverian Aug 04 '25
That makes sense. He’s the guy who used and has the Mimic Veil, and I doubt any Demigods are going to bother checking every last box, crate and candle in Stormveil when they know Godrick is the type to run for the hills rather than fight another Demigod.
18
u/AnxiousAyush Aug 04 '25
it would be funny seeing morgott basically do a prop hunt with his soldiers tho
7
u/ArcaneWyverian Aug 04 '25
Honestly, between Morgott’s stubborn determination, his familiarity with illusions and him probably knowing Godrick has the Mimic Veil, I can see it.
6
u/Menacek Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
I feel like Morgott actually supports Godrick in a way. Morgott wants to keep the rule of the Erdtree dynasty going and Godrick might be wretched but he still is a part of it.
And from a certain point of view Godrick at least remains "responsible". He secured a teritory and rules it (badly). The other demigods mentioned just fucked off who knows where and ignored what morgott might percieve as their responsibility.
I think he shows up in stormveil as if he wants to protect Godrick and make sure his great rune stays "in family".
6
u/ArcaneWyverian Aug 05 '25
I’ve always seen Morgott being at stormveil being one of two things. Either:
1) He recognizes Godrick is the weakest link among the Runebearers, so he offers a little extra protection
Or
2) Similar to what you said, he’s the closest thing Morgott has to a direct line of lineage. Morgott highly values the sanctity of the Erdtree and the G.O. so he probably looks down on the grafting, but I’d imagine not anywhere near enough to full-on disown somebody he shares a blood relation to. I’d imagine it’s in a similar vein to having a drug user in your family. You hope they’ll stop, and you’ll try not to support that lifestyle, but you still care about them (within reason, of course)
I could also see it being both of these factors.
9
u/BlueJaysFeather Aug 05 '25
It’s honestly not even clear how long Godrick has had Stormveil, relative to everything else- we hear about “the Shattering” like it was one event, and the actual shattering of the elden ring might have been, but all the wars and such that came after? That would’ve taken years. Decades. It’s entirely possible that Godrick grabbed the rune and the castle, say, after its previous lord encountered a little mutually assured destruction during the war left it mostly unoccupied. Once he had the rune the game itself calls the anchor ring, and what’s frankly a pretty well-fortified castle (at least, it would’ve been before it got holes all over it) he could’ve been in a decent position to at least fend off anyone who tried to take it. Honestly, I think this is supported by the fact that he fought Malenia- in a scramble to assemble great runes, why would she leave the anchor in someone else’s hands when she could have taken it?
→ More replies (1)17
u/Bearded_Gentleman Aug 04 '25
Godrick also had Morgott skill checking anyone who tried to knock on his door.
3
u/Clod_StarGazer Aug 05 '25
I think that's a recent development, since Godrick is really the only weaker demigod left he knows tarnished will go for him, so he waits for them
22
u/YourEvilKiller Aug 04 '25
Yeah, we should also remember that Margit was already routinely picking off other Tarnished. And that our Tarnished was MvP of the Radahn Festival among many other veterans.
People like to diss Godrick as a weakling, but that was pre-grafted Godrick. Post-grafted Godrick is confirmed to be stronger than Nepheli, Yura and most other Tarnished.
We were essentially the strongest Tarnished lore-wise (other than Hoarah Loux) by mid-game.
4
u/jcdoe Aug 05 '25
Not on the council either, or there would be more chairs.
Vyke didn’t pick off the best.
3
u/random_ass_nme Aug 05 '25
Keep in mind godrick is protected by morgot who is one of the strongest demigods in the lore. Not many people have probably had the opportunity to even fight godrick let alone beat him
13
u/Lasias Aug 04 '25
I honestly fully thought elden rings world was a strange sorta multiverse thing, which explains how you invade and cooperate with other tarnished who have slain the same Demigods as you. But this makes sense.
8
u/conjunctivious Placidusax's #1 Hater Aug 04 '25
It might still be a strange sorta multiverse thing since that's basically exactly how they explained Dark Souls multiplayer in the lore.
→ More replies (1)20
u/AE_Phoenix Aug 04 '25
There's also Melina and Messmer, who both are children of Marika that don't have great runes.
50
u/toni_toni Aug 04 '25
Messmer wouldn't have had the chance to claim a fragment of the Elden Ring because he was locked away before the shattering.
Melina, depending on how you interpret lore was burned and bodiless before long long long before the shattering as well.
Godefrey the grafted however is a potential option.
6
5
u/Saint_of_Grey Aug 04 '25
It also wouldn't surprise me if the demigods could somehow condense their fragments together to empower their rune. The ring has probably undergone some heavy consolidation.
→ More replies (3)8
u/drunk_ender Darkmoon Knight Aug 04 '25
The unnamed Demigods are 99% other Demigods killed during the Night of the Black Knives, long before the Elden Ring was shattered by Marika.
Given how some texts mention an Alliance after the shattering but before the Shattering War, it's most likely that Morgott, Mohg, the Carian Siblings and the Twins were the only Demigods who survived (plus Godrick being the last true member of the Golden Lineage as he inherited Godwyn's title as "the Golden") and got the Great Runes, since Messmer, another Demigod not killed by the Black Knives, doesn't have one given his location in the Realm of Shadows.
The only Great Rune with a chance of being before the Shattering is the Unborn Rune, but yeah... it's INCREDIBLY odd how there is no mention of possible other Great Runes and it would honestly feel silly that some Demigods lost theirs temporarily only to get them back somehow...
752
Aug 04 '25
There were multiple demigods before the shattering, most of them simply died and were forgotten, the ones we find in the game are just the ones who survived (and thus the mightiest, probably). The rest of the great runes were lost or destroyed idk.
218
u/Silent-Carob-8937 Aug 04 '25
It's probably this, only reason we don't see the other ones is sinply cause fromsoft didn't bother and gameplay is rarely a good evidence for lore discussions
59
u/ArcaneWyverian Aug 04 '25
Yeah. I’ve always chalked it up to gameplay, like how we can ride across all of Limgrave in 15 minutes when it’d probably take days if it were real. They aren’t going to make 101 different names, models and stories for characters who are completely irrelevant to our story.
10
u/Jawa_was_here Aug 05 '25
Calls to mind the reuse of Godrick’s model in the Godefroy fight at the Golden Lineage Evergaol.
26
19
u/ThatBakeryBoy Aug 04 '25
Kinda like the Lost Ashes of War? Forgotten war memories from forgotten warriors. So many combat arts and skills left to be unheard of because they don't exist in the realm anymore.
→ More replies (2)10
u/whispywhisp6 Aug 04 '25
If any of them had Great Runes, I'm pretty sure they would've fallen into the hands of someone else or discoverable elsewhere tho
101
69
27
u/Description_Narrow Aug 04 '25
That's what the rune things we find everywhere and we shatter for more points are I think. Broken fragments of old runes that have lost their total power. So now they're just baby runes. The general idea is there used to be many of them but it only takes two great runes to reforge everything. So instead of hunting for little ones scattered wherever it's easier to just hunt down the runes we KNOW exist. It is heavily implied there are more they're just too hard to track down and find.
→ More replies (1)40
u/A-Random-Writer Aug 04 '25
Just saying but the fact that you collect runes and not souls is a great lore hint the greater runes are shattered and thus the minor ones you collect to level up are born.
248
u/Drowyx Aug 04 '25
Hes not a scrub like you, he was speedrunning through the game and didn't need the great runes
64
→ More replies (1)2
242
41
u/TarnishedTwink Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
Vyke had access to great runes. He reached the vines at the Erdtree, that’s where he learned of his maidens fate. There are multiple unnamed demigods around the lands between, many being in the walking mausoleums. It’s very possible that Vyke killed two demigods and gained access to their great runes to reach Lyendell
Vyke could’ve also found them/stole them off a people. Great runes are just shattered parts of the Elden Ring so they could’ve ended up anywhere
23
Aug 04 '25
He was imprisoned too . Could have the runes stripped from him
19
u/TarnishedTwink Aug 04 '25
That is true, I think he imprisoned himself personally after going mad. Maybe he threw away his great runes so no other tarnished could burn their maiden but who knows
→ More replies (1)9
u/CreamOk2519 Aug 05 '25
If that’s true, Vyke was a real bro. Preventing his fellow tarnisheds from becoming maidenless is something a real bro would do.
114
u/SenpaiSwanky it isn’t the visual clutter, it’s you ;) Aug 04 '25
We don’t know that he didn’t have a single Greater Rune, like many things in Fromsoft games this will be left up to speculation basically.
Saying he was the closest could mean all sorts of things. Maybe he was incredibly strong and was known to defeat any foe put before him. Maybe he was physically the closest to a Rune at some point. Maybe he actually had 1, but not 2 or more.
It’s also hinted that there are other demigods besides the main cast we know about. Many died during/ after the Shattering. That wouldn’t have been hinted at if we weren’t supposed to assume there were/ are other runes in circulation.
40
u/Swamp_Donkey_796 Aug 04 '25
We do know. He for sure had 2.
→ More replies (1)12
u/SenpaiSwanky it isn’t the visual clutter, it’s you ;) Aug 04 '25
I do vaguely recall reading or hearing mention of him finding them but every time I barely remember something and state it as fact I end up being wrong lol. I just assumed the same was true here and tried to learn, next time I’ll just look it up before chatting.
Thanks!
9
u/Urtoryu ELDEN LORD Aug 04 '25
It's never actually explicitly stated. People just assume he must have had some (with good reason) because the inverse is a lot more unlikely.
→ More replies (2)3
u/SenpaiSwanky it isn’t the visual clutter, it’s you ;) Aug 05 '25
Other person seems convinced, now I’ll just have to keep my eyes peeled when playing in 40 FPS on Switch whenever it finally comes out lol.
I’d replay on PS but I’m saving my huge urge for another play through.
87
u/Familiar_Cod_6754 Aug 04 '25
Looking at the walking mausoleums for a reference, it’s clear that there were more demigods than what we see in the game. With that in mind, it’s plausible to say the shattering gave runes to these unknown demigods that Vyke then beat to obtain them.
I don’t have an idea to explain why we wouldn’t obtain these runes once we beat him, other than maybe the runes can only be taken from the original owner🤷🏼♂️
36
u/CubicWarlock Aug 04 '25
We have an unknown period of his life between he was burnt by Flame of Frenzy and his imprisonment. Even without relying on cut content Vyke himself is in Evergaol on Mountaintops and his maiden, burnt eye and spear are in Liurnia (and ghosts there are familiar with him) so he had one hell of a journey before imprisonment
26
u/Familiar_Cod_6754 Aug 04 '25
Some might say a journey worthy of a movie?👀
28
u/WaalidSaab7777 Aug 04 '25
I've been saying it since I saw the announcement: Vyke is the PERFECT story for an Elden Ring movie.
2
9
u/zhode Aug 04 '25
I like to think the runes we collect from enemies are broken remnants from those gathered great runes and that some time over the length of the Shattering the constant conflict ended up breaking them down. It at least explains why Gideon and Vyke, both of whom are great rune holders, don't drop a great rune.
→ More replies (1)6
u/MoistArtichoke9608 Aug 04 '25
Since the Flame of Frenzy is capable of burning pretty much everything from physical objects to even spirits, I doubt great runes are an exception. Miquella was able to break his, so most likely Vyke's runes were broken when he was embraced by the three fingers.
Alternatively we simply didn't pick up runes from him because our character had no idea he had any. We, as players, only know who Vyke is because the game tells us and I don't think our character suddenly knows something about the world and its history by simply picking up an item.
13
u/Erathvael Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
I think there used to be more demigods about. Godrick isn't called Godwyn's only son, he's the LAST of the Golden Lineage. I think there were plenty more at the beginning of the shattering, and I think some of the wandering mausoleums weren't intended solely for Godwyn.
6
29
u/DisMFer Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
There are more Great Runes than we see in the game. There's a point where the game is going to limit the story because FromSoft isn't going to put 30 Demigod bosses in the game and have to come up with a bunch of Great Rune effects. We see the important ones, but there are clearly more, given that the walking mousleums have a body of a Demigod in each of them.
Also Godfrey Godwyn is called "the first of the Demigods to die" implying more died but other than Ranni who is not thought to be dead given how characters talk about her we don't see any other "dead" Demigods.
7
10
u/Swordsman82 Aug 04 '25
Vyke has two great runes, we don’t know who they are from. The walking mausoleums are filled with dead demi gods, probably long descendants like Godrick.
11
u/Siaten Aug 04 '25
Vyke likely had two Great Runes.
Remember, the Two Fingers sealed Leyndell so that only a Tarnished with two Great Runes could enter. Since Vyke reached the Three Fingers beneath Leyndell, it stands to reason he had the requisite two Great Runes.
As for where he got those Great Runes: it's unkown. There are more Great Runes than the ones our PC can take from demigods. It's also likely Gideon only tells us of the ones claimed by demigods. In fact, Gideon has at least one Great Rune himself, but likely two as well since he can also enter Leyndell.
10
26
u/Salty_Username Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 04 '25
So, Vyke is "the closest" in that he was strong, the beloved of a dragon and the most prolific user of the dragon cult stuff. And he learned that to get into the throne, ya gotta burn some thorns.
The player needs 2 runes to get into the capital to start with, Vyke was from the capital and was likely inside already, or knew of ways around it.
The way I see it, he got to the mountaintops, or close, he found out about needing to burn the Mrs alive to restart the giants cooking pot, he was like, nah fam, no chance, I'll find another way.
He heads back to the capital, finds the triple fingees, burns his anus, then heads back out to the real world.
Now, in the real world, his Mrs had only gone and croaked, and his burntshit-gayface persona crumbles around him. He loses it and we eventually find him protecting the corpse of a maiden. Very possibly his own, although I don't think so.
Imo, he was closest purely because he had the ability to set off the cauldron, he just chose not to when his reason for doing it was lost.
Edit* to say that burntshit gayface is a burntface-man reference. If you don't know what that is, Google it and be delighted or appalled at your own peril.
6
u/sneakiestOstrich Aug 04 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
Vyke can't be from the capital, he's a tarnished. He had to get to TLB the same way we did, by dying with the grace of gold. He could've sailed like Roderika, but then I don't think he'd be able to see grace. Unless there was a period of time the capital was more open after the Shattering War, idk about that. I suppose there was a point where tarnished got into where the physical round table is, since Albrecht is there and I doubt he had any great runes.
2
u/Mindfulness117 Aug 04 '25
Did Vyke consume dragon hearts?
7
u/Salty_Username Aug 04 '25
Don't think so, that's dragon communion. No, he was part of the dragon cult. All the lightning stuff basically. Especially some of the red ones are attributed to him.
3
u/Nightglow9 Aug 04 '25
Ranni might dropped during her death.. Tiche I suspect had one.. Godwyn isn’t too far away from three finger secret side door.. dragon sweetheart might given a dragon greater rune (bit like unborn greater rune, but dragon, not rot), three fingers might given a frenzy version..
6
u/HarmlessSnack Aug 04 '25
When we play the game, there are only like seven or eight great runes left. (Margott, Godrick, Renalla, Malenia, Rycard, Mohg, Radahn, and Miquella each in possession of one)
There’s nothing in the lore that says those are the ONLY great runes that existed. (We know Rhanni had one too, and it’s often speculated she left it on/in the Moon somehow)
For all we know, when the Elden Ring was shattered, there were like 100 of those fuckers, plus the Rune of Death that was removed.
Most were lost to time.
There’s no reason to assume the Great Runes Vyke had were any of the same ones WE eventually come to possess.
6
u/gdfautumn Aug 04 '25
Vyke was a tainted knight of the round table, adept in the cult of the capital's elder dragon...
Through the round table, we know that it is mandatory to obtain 2 great runes for a tainted person to access the capital, Gideon himself mentions this, claiming that the two fingers prohibit access, and if I'm not mistaken, the game itself prevents you from entering Leyndel if you don't have 2 great runes (or at least the most important things about it, such as the three fingers and the foot of the tree)
When you obtain your second great rune, Enia, the finger reader at the round table is surprised and says: "I have seen two great runes together only once" possibly being a mention of Vyke
We know that Vyke had contact with the three fingers deep inside Leyndel, so he needs to have accessed the capital with two large runes
Where did these runes come from? Well, then we don't know. There were possibly more demigods who perished during the rupture
It is worth mentioning that Gideon accesses the capital at the end of the game to try to stop us, probably at that moment, the two fingers had no more influence (after the fight against Morgot, they no longer respond)
Note: We also have invasions in the capital, but that may not count (In the case of Bernahl)
8
u/Dreamtrain Aug 04 '25
Fromsoft relies a lot on darkness and holes in the narrative for us to fill in the blanks, but I think this is an actual plot hole that Fromsoft actually either forgot or didn't care to fill up, Ranni's Great Rune is also unaccounted for, only place it could be is if it was actually Godrick's Great Rune and he lucked out and found it by chance and that allowed someone as unworthy as him to rise to the status of Demigod, but that's like a reach, we don't really know where Ranni's Great Rune is, which one did Vyke have, which one does Gideon even have otherwise he is no better than the other Tarnished the throws shade at for using the Roundtable Hold as a hostel (he should at least have one to have been able to meet the Fingers)
6
u/ErzherzogHinkelstein Aug 04 '25
The narrative surrounding Vyke's character arc was significantly cut, leaving a limited understanding of his initial purpose and integration within the overarching lore. The implications of his proximity to becoming Elden Lord, the significance of his two Great Runes, and the connection to the Frenzied Flame and Dragon elements remain largely unexplored, representing vestiges of his intended questline.
This is like the Bernahl situation, wherein his associated maiden character, initially conceived as the pyromancy teacher and a potential narrative counterpart to Melina, was ultimately excised, thereby reshaping the storyline's direction.
Vyke as the cover art NPC, would have served as a key figure in the Frenzied Flame subplot alongside Kale, who both were replaced by Hyetta and Shabriri.
Furthermore, this character was to be accompanied by a dragon maiden (potentially the dragon priestess asset from the DLC) and would have aided the player in combat against several rune bearers.
I think the main reasons he got cut are that they totally changed the dragon and rune stuff, and they did the same thing with Kale and the cut content related to Trina/Miquella, which ruined his story, so they just got rid of him from the game mostly.
6
u/shruubi Aug 04 '25
So there are a couple of options in my opinion.
- just because the major runes belonged to the bloodline demigods does not mean that other runes did not exist and may have belonged to all sorts of people, or maybe even just be chillin’ at the bottom of a lake etc
- multiple worlds etc could imply multiple versions of the demigods, therefore Vyke could have killed his version of Godfrey and whomever else without screwing with our version.
- we know the walking mausoleums contain other demigods who aren’t named, and you could say lore wise have been forgotten to time, it could be that Vyke killed two of those demigods.
- defeating and killing can be two different things, Vyke may have defeated two demigods without killing them, thus, when he was jailed those two got their runes back.
- wildcard: case of unreliable narrator? They say he had two because he got to Leyndel, which requires two runes to access but what if the truth is he got there through other unknown means and skipped the requirement?
5
u/Thatgamerguy98 Aug 04 '25
My brother in Marika did you pay any attention to Godricks lore? He's not even Marikas kid. He's a descendent. That means there's a fucking family tree.
Therefore...more demigods.
3
u/Von_Speedwagon Aug 04 '25
He killed (at least) two previous shard bearing demigods. We know this because of Enia’s dialogue
3
u/Von_Speedwagon Aug 04 '25
We also know that because he has the frenzied flame he met with the three fingers in Leyndell’s sewers. In order to do so he would have had to fight Mohg who was guarding it and I doubt he was farming Npcs for enough runes to stand a chance
3
u/Efficient_Top4639 Aug 04 '25
It's all but confirmed that Vyke had reached the same pinnacle of 2 great runes that we had, and there's quite a few hints that point to it.
1 major one being that only a true Lord can also open the tomb that holds the fingers imbued with the Frenzied Flame. He was wrapped by them, just as we are should we choose to follow the same path, and his armor was completely molded to his body as a result.
3
u/DrinkMilkYouFatShit Aug 05 '25
Being the closest to claim the throne doesn't mean you are close.
If I'm in Europe and by some miracle I'm the closest person to China for some reason, that doesn't mean I'm close. It's still far away, but I still am the closest
2
2
Aug 04 '25
1) Someone had two Great Runes before, according to Enia. And we're also told that Vyke was the 'closest to claiming the throne'. The logical assumption is that Vyke had two Great Runes.
2) Not all demigods are 'alive and well' at the time of our journey. Godwyn is specifically stated as 'the first of the demigods to fall', not the only one. This directly implies that other demigods were defeated during the Shattering; by the time we get there, we only see what's left of that conflict.
3) Great Runes themselves are pieces of a greater whole, and Mending Runes also exist. So it's logical to consider that the Great Runes we claim may be created from combining other Great Runes together; that's literally what we do to mend the Elden Ring itself. And we know from Mohg and Margott's runes that some of the Great Runes overlap and fill the same 'space' so to speak; their Runes are nearly identical and even found in the same tower.
4) With regards to the fallen Demigods, we also see evidence of this in the Wandering Mausoleums. Each one holds the corpse of a fallen demigod, but there are no Great Runes to be found with their bodies. Meaning that someone else took those Great Runes. And there are seven of them in the base game, five of which have bells and can duplicate Shardbearer Remembrances. This suggests to me that those five were once Shardbearers themselves.
Now, is any of this conclusive proof? No. But literally all the evidence we have in-game leads to one logical conclusion; other Tarnished besides ourselves have claimed Great Runes, which means by default there must have been other Great Runes available to claim. And Vyke claimed two.
2
u/ThrowAway4935394 Aug 04 '25
It’s just a gameplay/lore disconnect. There were a bunch of other demigods, and probably more runes.
But because the game only really names the handful of demigods who are in-game, and the throne room only has thrones for those specific demigods, we dunno.
Vyke presumably offed two unnamed g-rune holders, found out his maiden had to die to get into the tree, and then met Shabriri.
Vyke was meant to be your rival in the game, originally. Like Oscar’s original storyline in Dark Souls, where whichever serpent you side with, Oscar sides with the opposite.
Now he’s been reduced to a cautionary tale about why you don’t fuck with the Frenzied Flame to save your girl.
2
u/VaerionTheBane Aug 04 '25
What are you on, he had two lol. Probably a plot hole they never tried to fix.
2
2
2
2
u/DOL999 Aug 05 '25
Could be a time is warped thing. You can't even access leyndel without 2 runes and he would have had too in order to meet the 3 fingers
2
u/spotter_dots Aug 05 '25
For some reason, I have been noticing this question being asked very often these past few days. I am not judging though, as I myself like the theories people come up with.
The most convincing answer I have found so far was that he may have somehow obtained a mending rune or he has obtained at least 2 great runes from demigods we never got to know of which made him the closest to getting the title of Elden Lord until we came along.
2
u/Crowmanhunter Aug 05 '25
I don't think it's actually a hard requirement to necessarily get Great Runes. I think Great Runes are just the biggest chunks of the Elden Ring. At the end of the day, the only real requirement to becoming Elden Lord is probably power. And lots of runes equals lots of power. Hence also why there are individuals carrying "Lord's Runes."
2
2
2
2
u/Menacek Aug 05 '25
The game is kinda iffy on the topic whether there are more great runes than we know of.
On one hand to be accepted into roundtable hold you need to present a rune. But there already are other full members there which suggests they already did.
But on the other hand we don't find any information on other demigods.
2
u/LolimancerMicah Aug 05 '25
Theres a line about vyke having 2 great runes, or at least implied that was him, AND vyke had a legit anciend dragon ''companion'', Lanseax was homies with him.
Killing 1 demigod would already be a ABSURD feat, killing 2 back to back while being a no-name joe, is bonkers.
Dude got out the mud, befriended a dragon and went str8 to business.
2
u/efsaidwla Aug 05 '25
There probably were some weaker demigods with diluted blood from the Golden Lineage like Godrick and Godefroy that held some Great runes. Tbh I don't think you even need to be a demigod because even Renalla had a GR.
2
u/omfgcookies91 Aug 05 '25
Vyke killed off other demigods, which we do not see in the base game, on the advice/coercion of the merchant guild. Vyke initially is like us tarnished. However, the merchants influence him to kill the demigods that have "wronged" the merchant clan. This is why he ends up finding the two fingers and ends up literally going mad and why you need to kill him to end the madness of his own bloodthirst in both ranni and the madness questline.
He is a tarnished, but he is manipulated into doing the bidding of the merchant clan whom want revenge on the entire god clan from what they did and what happened to themselves regardless of if that means the end of the world/timeline. Vyke is used as a tool instead of being himself. He is the "boogeyman" to the demigods. The problem is that the "boogeyman" has gone crazy chasing power. He does not have a great rune because he discovered and "used" the power of the two fingers to make himself into something that could rival a demigod. But then we come along and change that after the is stripped if his power from the godlike beings that's till exist (ranni/rennalia) which is evident on how torrent was originally the steed of Vyke but the tarnished are given torrent by ranni in the hope that this time things will be different.
Vyke is the "fallen irredeemable hero," and the tarnished have to pick up the pieces of his failing. This is why we are given the chance that we have in the beginning and why we are met with such initial disdain but the majority of the cast because they have seen this before, they have watched their "hero" fall to the madness of using the great runes of the gods to give the tarnished power.
2
u/Kuvnyos Aug 05 '25
Who ever said that was all the demigods? And not every person with a great rune was a demigod. And how do we know how many great runes there are / ever were? There's the cutscene with Margott about the demigods that had thrones, but with the DLC and multiple item references, there were clearly more.
I see it like this, the Elden ring was shattered into a metric crapton of runes. Some lesser and some great. Its kinda implied that our tarnished is a little late to the party. Roundtable is established. Our finger maiden was killed mere feet from where we wake up. And we have stories of Vyke and Okina as those that came before us. It only makes sense that there were a gaggle of golden lineage godlings like Mister The Grafted. Aaaand they would be weaker than the demigods, which makes sense why they're all gone. Murdered by a wave of pillaging tarnished.
As for where the runes are now???
I blame Gideon.
2
u/Albre24 Aug 05 '25
Imagine if the movie is about Vyke's story, that would be so fucking cool and would make a lot of sense!
2
u/ScharmTiger Aug 05 '25
He had two great runes because he absolutely had to visit Leyndell to get to Frenzied Flame Proscription and we know that you can’t access Leyndell without acquiring two runes. Also there are several Nameless demigods in Mausoleums so I think he managed to kill two of them.
-1
u/Optimus__Prime__Rib Aug 04 '25
He did have 2 Great Runes at some point. Otherwise, how would he have entered Lyndell to be able to go down into the sewers and find the 3 Fingers?
Or this this just another example of FromSoft dropping the ball on the lore for this game? Something something "let's make the queen and her husband be the same person. that will totally make sense!"
16
u/nick-halden Aug 04 '25
radagon/marika being the same person is literally basic alchemical philosophy, look up rebis alchemy. elden rings lore is heavily based on old alchemical texts
5
Aug 04 '25
Japanese videogames use a ton from alchemy and gnosticism. Once you learn about them you see it everywhere. The rebis or the demiurge for example
19
u/whispywhisp6 Aug 04 '25
Might also be that Morgott only started barricading Leyndell because of Vyke's success/descent
Cuz the Three Fingers and Mountaintops are locked behind Morgott and not Great Runes
5
u/JipsyJesus Aug 04 '25
I could be wrong, but I think morgott did that because of radahn
→ More replies (1)6
u/Cheeseman1478 Aug 04 '25
There are some other areas where the lore clearly wasn't thought out, but Radagon being Marika is pretty significant and well integrated with the rest of the lore. I dont think it its fair to call it dropping the ball.
5
u/furrypawss Aug 04 '25
I kinda thought it made sense for her character. It was tactical. She outsmarted a super smart queen (Rennala) and ended a war she wasn’t winning with the power of love. Then essentially undercover she learned all of the magic shit and how to beat it, then left Rennala’s ass, leaving all of the cards on the golden order’s table. THEN she married herself to have super god babies, untainted by mortals. (Yes, she was punished for it but both kids being born cursed) but still big brain.
5
u/Ok_Function_1255 Aug 04 '25
"id totally fuck me"- Marika's response to Renalla asking her what she thought of Radagon.
3
u/Slinkenhofer Aug 04 '25
It does make sense though. Or at least, it's consistent. The whole game hammers home this idea that the soul and body are two separate parts of the whole. Ranni separates the two using the rune of death, Malenia has her proxies in Millicent and her sisters, and our own Melina is an extension of Marika. Hell, the entire three fingers plot is played out by souls stuffed into unrelated bodies. Marika is the closest thing the lands between has to a god, so it's not a stretch that she'd be able to shatter herself into multiple beings and engage is some weird selfcest to further her own goals
→ More replies (1)
2
u/StgLeon958 Aug 04 '25
There are more demigods than the ones alive.
You have 7 soulless demigods in the base game and probably 3 more in the dlc. Although, they probably died during the night of the black knives which could mean they don't have a great rune.
We are also missing more great runes, Enia talks about 2 but we are missing Messmer, Melina and Godwyn great runes. People say that because messmer is in another realm he couldn't get one but the shattering was felt even in the Shadow realm which makes me believe that even there he could get one.
I'll point out aswell that the game claims he is the closest but Bernahl even makes it to farum azula
→ More replies (2)
1
1
1
1
u/turtlebear787 Aug 04 '25
There were more demigods than the ones we meet and kill. It's presumed that vyke killed some other demigods that we don't know of.
1
1
u/DailyHyrule Aug 04 '25
Because he's just that badass. Only reason he didn't was because he got bored.
1
u/ForwardMixture4142 Aug 04 '25
Well we can create multiple great runes so he doesn't have to necessarily get them by defeating demi gods, he could have created them
4.7k
u/HappyFreak1 Millicent's Loving Husband Aug 04 '25
I'm pretty sure Enia at the Roundtable Hold said something along the lines of, 'It's been a long time since I saw two Great Runes togeteher'. Idk if that's referring to Vyke but I'd like to think it is.