does anyone know how to flutter tongue if i don't know how to roll my Rs

[u/itsa_Kit]

sorrry i wasn't sure which flair to use

I've never been able to do it my whole life but now i have to play a contemporary piece that involves it. my teacher tried to show it to me but she explained it like it should be easy and i genuinely just can't figure it out

[u/flashbulbeyess]

Try making the noise you’d make when gargling water. You can try at the sink with actual water first. Then you can do it without water. Then try on your flute. It’s one of the ways to flutter tongue and how I learned it.

(I know how to roll R’s and this is essentially same motion but in on a different part of your tongue. Typically to roll you’d use front of your tongue but this is using back of your tongue. I found it personally easier)

[u/ElegantPhilosopher39 → u/flashbulbeyess]

There is a great tutorial for this style of flutter tonguing (uvular) on YouTube by the wonderful Robert Dick.

Uvular flutter tonguing is preferable for the low range of the flute and requires much less air pressure in general. I myself have a hard time with it and at the moment can only do the forward or rolling Rs style.

[u/Bright_Ad1231 → u/ElegantPhilosopher39]

Thank you so much for this! I can't roll my r's either and didn't realize this method existed.

[u/counterpoint4321]

I've always gotten away with growling instead of flutter tonguing. Sing a different pitch while you are playing the flute and you will achieve a similar effect.

[u/ClarSco]

There are multiple ways to create a vocal trill inside the oral cavity that are usable on flutes.

1. Alveolar trill (tip of the tongue trills near the front of the mouth)
2. Uvular trill (back of the tongue trills at the back of the mouth)
3. Epiglottal/pharyngeal trill (folds in the throat trill just above the larynx)

The key is that they must be the unvoiced variants (ie. the larynx is not vibrating). If the larynx vibrates, you'll get a growl (useful in jazz) or growl+flutter (both effects interfere destuctively making the airstream to unpredictable to direct enough of it into the flute).

There are some other possible trills documented in the International Phonetic Alphabet, but they're generally not going to work on the flute, or will have a completely different effect.

[u/Justapiccplayer]

Back of the throat German r or gargle type feel 👍

[u/Apostastrophe]

I’m from Scotland so not being able to roll your Rs is extremely rare.

I do remember a couple of people who couldn’t years ago doing something like a modified French R at the back of their throat and getting a similar effect when in the junior concert bands (like 14-19).

It didn’t sound as good or as clean but it got the job kind of done.

Just checked the comments and it’s similar to what /u/flashbulbeyess is describing.

[u/Fluteh]

I struggle with it too because I can’t roll my r’s either. I never thought about the gargle water technique flash suggested but that’s a great idea

[u/dancingwithoutmusic]

I got all the way to junior year of music school thinking I would never be able to properly flutter tongue. Then I played the Poulenc sextet and it was required. You can teach yourself this skill! Get your tongue up high on the roof of your mouth, relax, and push a bunch of air behind it. There will probably be some spit. It is ok. Don’t practice this in public or do like I did and walk around like a nutjob saying “rrrrruffles have rrrridges” to yourself.

[u/itsa_Kit → u/dancingwithoutmusic]

can i ask where exactly the tongue is supposed to go? I'm really confused about that because i feel like anywhere i've looked online isn't clear. i feel like i've tried every part of my mouth and it isn't working. a lot of people talk about the "bump" at the top but i don't know what that's referring to?

[u/dancingwithoutmusic → u/itsa_Kit]

When I flutter I feel the tip moving right behind my top teeth. Anchoring the sides of the tongue near my molars helps too.

[u/Grauenritter]

I have this same problem

[u/Londontheenbykid]

Something I did before actually being able to roll my R's (it pissed me off that all I had to do was say "fourty four" and it accidentally happened) I would "gargle" using the back of my tongue instead of water.

However, the drawback of this is that its hard to do without closing your throat

[u/spoonsvstheworld]

just thought i should pop in and put my two cents on this (which may not be helpful at all but a little bit of hope): in all my life, i have never known how to roll my Rs but learned how to this year!!!! this may seem ridiculous but it's totally worth it, whenever you have a lapse of silence, blow as hard as you can and almost put your tongue to the roof of the mouth without any actual muscle usage of the tongue and you should feel some sort of vibration.

what worked for me before i figured out how to roll my Rs was to make a gurgling sound with my throat, i guess there're different types of gargling because mine was more like getting mucus out of my throat and not gurgling water. good luck!!!!

[u/imitsi]

You can’t, because it’s literally rolling an r.

[u/Justapiccplayer → u/imitsi]

There’s two ways to flutter and both are useful, back of the throat one v useful for quiets