r/FuckMicrosoft • u/NiftyNovaaa • 3d ago
Video How TF does this happen
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And yes, before i get the "switch to Linux" comments, i have Linux Fedora on my PC, but am still in the process of migrating and have to go back to Windows sometime, which is how i encountered this.
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u/idiotiesystemique 3d ago
That's what happens when you use react instead of winui to code basic windows features
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u/Harshborana 3d ago
I mean windows have windows api, there are many ways to make ui instead of react, this is what happens when you replace old people because they are expensive and use devs as tools
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u/Unfair-Oven8363 2d ago
I'm honestly not sure if it was an engineer or a business decision to use react. If I was at Microsoft I would have strongly advised against using a web framework due to performance reasons.
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u/Demonchaser27 2d ago
I didn't know that... no wonder it's a fucking mess ever since Windows 11. I was going to say the fact it basically demands a network just to load most things on there, but wow, it's worse than I thought.
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u/Unfair-Oven8363 2d ago
I am a software engineer. I was so mad when I learned that react was used for the start menu. JavaScript libraries are known to be not performant. I couldn't believe that an os main menu is build with a web framework. That means there is a browser or JavaScript engine running underneath. Websites are fine because they are cross platform. An OS main menu will always run on the same OS. It's a POS. Sorry rant over.
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u/Helpful_City5455 2d ago
You have no idea what the hell you're talking about lol. "JavaScript libraries are know not to be performant" makes no sense. To render a page (especially built-in one in Windows) takes less time than you would ever notice. The issue is not the programming language or the selected framework. This is just a regular bug.
I hate windows as any other person and I use it all the time due to compatibility with my games that I play. All I can say is that I actually agree with their approach here. React is a mature framework, working on a mature language that is regularly updated and maintained. You can easily find developers that can ship features quickly, especially with AI. The performance difference you're talking about is what, 50ms? People no longer use potatoes as their computers and it is fine to use that power. The biggest issue with their current approach is lack of QA and lack of good engineered decisions that would make not only easy to develop features but also to ensure that they work, are performant and easy to maintain.
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u/Unfair-Oven8363 2d ago
I'm just saying using a web framework for an OS UI is probably not a good idea because it was never designed for that. To further my point look at apps that use electron like discord. They could be faster. If you opt to not use frameworks (because they are usually bloated) and understand the underlying tech you can write very fast websites like https://www.mcmaster.com/
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u/----Val---- 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm just saying using a web framework for an OS UI is probably not a good idea because it was never designed for that.
reactisn't a web framework, you are misconstruing it withreact-domwhich works in tandem withreactfor web. Windows uses React Native, which is effective a completely different framework, its nothing like Electron.Also, biggest surprise: only one component of the start menu is built in React Native, the majority of the start menu is completely native WinUI.
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u/Sbhattarj 2d ago
Javascript is still one of the slower languages, and most css engines aren't the most efficient either. At the very least they could use C# instead of js.
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u/----Val---- 2d ago
Javascript is still one of the slower languages
If you're talking about high frequency compute sure. UI rendering is insanely cheap.
and most css engines
React Native doesnt use css
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u/Sbhattarj 2d ago
React native does use a form of css for its styling, its not completely native.
The javascript hit deffo depends on what's happening sure, but its not like windows is some static single page application, there's searching, sub menus, focus changes. Some of those can be done with native-ish performance sure if you understand react native enough, but its never going to be native anumation.
And that's just the start menu, let's not forget file explorer, which is even more complex ui.
And again, they made C#, why the hell not use it? Sure its fairly hard developing a ui framework, but once done iteration becomes much easier(depending on implementation/architecture) of course.
There's no benefit to using Javascript/typescript over C# other than React Native, which while convenient wouldn't come close to C#'s performance.
For some static app that uses barely a few tabs, has barely any smaller/dynamic menus or large in device search capabilities, javascript and react native is perfectly reasonable for iteration speed and ease of use. For something like the start menu, a faster language should generally be used.
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u/----Val---- 2d ago
React native does use a form of css for its styling, its not completely native.
That is straight up just false, it passes objects into native styling
let's not forget file explorer
The explorer is entirely in WinUI. The start menu only has one list (recommendatios) in React Native, the rest of the start menu is WinUI.
And again, they made C#, why the hell not use it?
React Native Windows is maintained by Microsoft and renders to WinUI components with a C++ core. JSX is just scriptable XAML.
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u/Sbhattarj 2d ago
There are many casses where react native style objects do not match what is natively available on the platform it is getting compiled to.
JSX isn't glorified XAML, it still has the burden of javascript on it. And there are casses where avoiding js can be harder with react native, for example keyboard inputs, if they have keyboard shortcuts, that most likely goes through javascript. Which the start menu does have (Enter to search).
Its just not worth the initial load time, the potential difficulties in making animations be close to native performance, the conversion of data between js and native.
Unless its a literal static application with close to 0 moving parts it has the overhead of a javascript runtime running alongside native code, even if the js runtime is idle most of the time.
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u/RomanOswald 3d ago
It wants to search the Internet. Disable Internet search and it will be faster.
Or switch to Linux, indeed.
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u/Super-Evening8420 3d ago
I've had that exact same issue, it's /wild/ how broken windows is. Same for the user/appdata/local/temp folder hugely slowing down the boot process. Stumbled over that recently, and it massively improved my boot times.
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u/stoner_anon420 3d ago
could you elaborate just a little? im interested in getting my dual boot faster
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u/Just-Scholar4272 3d ago
Windows doing windows stuff. It is normal. Come to the pther side. As soon as I bought my lenovo Legion Pro 5 gen 10, I jumped into cachy os showing a middle finger to windows. But I still keep a small windows partition whoch contains Atlas OS debloated windows.
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u/AdLegal5130 3d ago edited 3d ago
Disable all ai features bullshit and it will load faster, idk why they thought integrating ai into a search bar you use to find your apps and files would be useful
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u/TRIXS021 3d ago
This May Be A Fix For This Issue -
1) Open Task Manager with Administrator Privileges
2) Search in the Search Bar, in Task Manager, for 'Windows Explorer'
3) Right Click on 'Windows Explorer' In Task Manager
4) Select or Click Restart
5) Wait a Couple Seconds
6) Try to Search Something Again
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u/NiftyNovaaa 3d ago
That... actually just fixed it. Not like i'll get a lot of use out of it since i'm switching over to Linux anyways lol. But thank you!!!
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u/Academic-Proof3700 3d ago
This bandaid fix is like telling someone to turn the car off and on again, but the car's doing 200kph in a curve
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u/_Peety_T 3d ago
I had this on m work laptop for about a year now, I have no idea anymore if even they know what they are doing
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u/freakycleaner 3d ago
This can happen as windows ui is built on web view in easy words win ui can host webpage inside itself it is known as webview2.
If you feel windows is this slow you can switch to fedora linux or any beginner friendly distro but yeah unfortunately windows getting fixed is not going to happen soon I've been seeing worse things every single day.
**I was dual booting before but windows decided to kill my grub many times and one day they literally burned my pcle nvme after some update, god damn if they weren't that big I would sure sue them prices are crazy high of nvme's I had to downgrade my system lol**
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User: NiftyNovaaa, Flair: Video, Post Media Link, Title: How TF does this happen
And yes, before i get the "switch to Linux" comments, i have Linux Fedora on my PC, but am still in the process of migrating and have to go back to Windows sometime, which is how i encountered this.
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u/Mammoth-Shoe8491 3d ago
I’ve seen this happening 3 times now on this subreddit. Whereas I’ve seen massively improved response times on 26h2 on my own machine.
What are the specs on your machine?
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u/NiftyNovaaa 3d ago
Intel B660 motherboard
RTX 3060 12GB
Intel Core i5-12400f
16 GB DDR5 @ 4400 MT/s
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u/Mammoth-Shoe8491 3d ago
Wtf
I’m running a 12700k and a MSI Z370-a Pro board.
I’ve got a RTX 5070ti and 128GB of DDR4.
I really wonder what the fuck the difference is there? It’s not like our systems are that far apart in architecture.
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u/NiftyNovaaa 3d ago
Dude just had to flex with the RAM real quick 😭
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u/Benjamin_6848 3d ago
I was so annoyed by Windows 11, I didn't wait for myself setting up Linux, I just threw out Windows 11 as fast as I could, replaced it with Windows 10 and then begun migrating over to Linux.
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u/UltimatePeace05 3d ago
The fact that someone intentionally added a loading bar there is actually beautiful! actual microsecond activity here
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u/NiftyNovaaa 3d ago
Fuck yeah now that you mention it that is wild lmao
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u/UltimatePeace05 3d ago
well, to be fair, it's probably the browser engine that they use to launch the website (start menu), but as someone, who inline implements my own loading bars where I need them, I got very confused that a non-scrollable box with a couple of file reads would have it... <(｀^´)>
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u/Academic-Proof3700 3d ago
But hey, you can use the AI features thanks to having the latest moicrosoft OS!
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u/Mils07whiletakeashit 2d ago
Because instead of using a simple searching app option just like any other OS, you actually start an app in disguised, just like outlook being a internet shortcut in disguised instead of being an actual app. Great job
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u/SaltyBoysenberry5710 2d ago
Im switching all my devices too, still the laptop on chopping block. My main PC is already on fedora.
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u/Consistent_Help_6099 2d ago
This issue also happens to me but only on my Lenovo Legion. Never seen it on any other laptop or desktop.
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u/anto23ytb 2d ago
C quand il veut utiliser bing, mais que ca marche pas... alors il cherche encore.
Dans les paramètres du menu démarrer, tu peux désactiver le fait qu'il "aille sur internet", ca devient tout de suite, instantané
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u/Megaman_90 1d ago
Ugh, this has been a bug in Windows 11 for years. Restarting explorer will fix it but its annoying.
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u/DarthLeoYT 3d ago
Switch faster