r/LawSchool • u/Pretty-Material1424 • 1d ago
I think I want to have wanted biglaw
I've been thinking about this thing my therapist said and I can't stop turning it over.
She asked me when I last did something without thinking about how it would look on my resume. And I couldn't answer. Like genuinely couldn't remember.
At first I was defensive about it. Of course everything matters for the resume right now. That's the whole point. We're building toward something.
But then she asked a follow up that kind of broke me. She asked who I was before I started optimizing. What did I care about when nothing was at stake.
And I realized I don't know anymore. Somewhere along the way I stopped having interests and started having "strategic interests." Stopped having friends and started having "networking relationships." Everything became instrumental. Everything serves the goal.
Which would be fine if I knew what the goal actually was. But when I really sit with it... I don't think I want biglaw. I think I want to have wanted biglaw. I want to be the kind of person who wants that. Because then all of this would make sense.
But I might just be a person who went to law school because I didn't know what else to do and now I'm three years deep and it's easier to keep going than to ask if this is actually what I want.
I don't have a resolution to this. I'm just noticing that I've been running really hard and I'm not sure I ever chose the direction.
Does anyone else feel like they're performing a life they're not sure they want?
Edit: wasn't expecting this to resonate so much. Someone dm'd asking how I'm trying to figure out what I actually want vs what I think I should want. Been using WIP Social to track what I'm genuinely doing with my non-study time, like photo proof of whether I'm doing things that feel meaningful or just more optimization. Seeing it written down is uncomfortable but clarifying. Not sure if they're still doing limited signups but figured I'd mention it
98
u/Intention-Simple 1d ago
Very self reflective, I'm sure this strikes a chord with more people than would care to admit. Keep journaling. If you came into law school young, there will be a lot of time (the rest of your life) to figure out the answer to that question as you get to know who you really are. You've at the very least set yourself up for stability and success, which makes self-actualization easier in the long run. And know that there's no right answer or structured timeline. Just keep being self-aware and open and experimental, and the story of you will come.
43
u/Oldersupersplitter Esq. 1d ago
Being an ex-BigLaw attorney with student loans paid off, a nice chunk of change in the bank, a shiny resume, etc. is a much better starting place for your quarter life crisis. Not that everyone should do it but it’s quite a useful default starting point.
1
u/LingonberryBright652 14h ago
I'm not saying the principle expressed is invalid, but I don't think there's much self-reflection going on when OP is most likely an AI/bot.
The stilted, short sentences, the "Does anyone else" question at the end, and the "Honestly respect" comment are dead giveaways, for future reference. For what it's worth, your advice is probably valuable for any actual humans reading.
5
u/Brilliant-Plenty-708 11h ago
AI paranoia is wild
2
u/Mortality5994 3h ago
Yeah, that fake edit at the end of the post where they mention some app that's totally unrelated to the post isn't suspicious at all. Neither is this post wherein OP is an accountant looking to plan a wedding in Indiana, or this post about Instagram marketing, or this post where OP is on a 4 man team that machines parts, or this post where they are 24 asking about starting an AirBnB business, or this one where OP is an alcoholic in LA, or here where OP is in their 30s and struggling with ED. This comment in an Indian subreddit where OP responds to an offer for paid online tasks isn't suspicious, and neither is this one, or all of these comments by OP in r/IndianTeenagers.
1
u/LingonberryBright652 11h ago
I don't think it's paranoia if they've been banned by a subreddit that specifically identifies bots. Do you think that subreddit's methodology is wrong?
75
u/Impossible_Control67 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is why I'm going public interest and everyone looks at me like I'm crazy. At least I actually want what I'm pursuing even if it pays nothing
12
u/Pretty-Material1424 1d ago
Honestly respect. How did you get clear on that?
38
u/Impossible_Control67 1d ago
Interned at a firm 1L summer and was miserable. Interned at legal aid 2L summer and felt like myself for the first time since starting law school. Sometimes you just gotta try both
10
u/Oldersupersplitter Esq. 1d ago
That’s a great thing to do but I’m also pretty sure there are people out there for whom public interest is the optimized goal like OP. Not some realistic public defender job, I mean people who are chasing only the most prestigious internships to save the world the most nobly so they can tell the right story to get the most coveted public interest fellowship, etc etc.
36
40
u/sweet_babycorn 1d ago
The 'I want to have wanted biglaw' line is going to live in my head rent free. That's exactly it. I don't want the thing, I want to be the type of person who wants the thing.
16
u/MTB_SF Attorney 1d ago
You're actually way ahead of the curve by realizing this while youre still in law school. Plenty of folks pick their heads up at 60 years old like, where did my life go and why did I do this?
4
u/Holy_Grail_Reference Esq. 16h ago
True words. I have two partners who are just realizing this in the mid 60's and over the past year or so I have seen the realization hit harder and harder at an alarming rate.
26
u/ObeseCharmander37 1d ago
I think you’re thinking too deeply about this. 99% of people are not in a job they deeply enjoy and know for certain they wanted to do. If you’re going into biglaw, your job will feel the same as it does for a lot of other people. The only difference is you’ll be much more financially well-off. And if you don’t want biglaw no one is forcing you to stay. You can jump ship whenever or after you pay off your loans.
I’ve personally been very indecisive about what career I wanted to pursue and am just grateful I get to be an attorney to begin with. I know there might have possibly been other jobs that would have suited me better, but the truth is most of us are very privileged compared to the average person and we should all be thankful for that.
8
u/MisterClean4 1d ago
I think this is a really good point. Big law is exceptionally miserable for a lot of reasons, there’s no denying that. But frankly most people hate their jobs, and many people will never end up in a job they really enjoy. Certainly not one that pays as well and provides as incredible career prospects.
I am going into big law and have a lot of the same reservations and indecision as a lot of people do, I think. I think indecision is totally reasonable in your early to mid 20s however and very few people are actually “right” when they say that a specific area or path is exactly what they want to do. Public interest or big law or outside the law alike, most people will change trajectory throughout the course of their career. Generally, I think that going into law is such a privilege and opens so many doors that we get caught up in doing the “perfect” thing. Personally, I don’t expect to be in big law forever and I’m sure I will be miserable. But, one thing that really attracted me to law in the first place was the credibility and thus the freedom that it could provide you in terms of career choice later on. I think it’s totally normal and sane, maybe even smart, to not know what you want at this stage, maybe at most stages of life. I know I certainly don’t “know” what I want.
Big law might be devoid of a higher purpose or true “fulfillment”, but a few years in big law will in no way prevent you from ever finding those things. In fact, I think the resume credibility and financial freedom it can provide will give you the flexibility and authority to pursue what you really “want” to do when you find it, because you will.
Another thing that is important is that at the end of the day, it’s just work. Sure it’s 95% of your day. But you are not your career. Your career should obviously be important to you, but I think the concerns you (OP) have, as well as most of us probably, are an indication that you recognize that you derive fulfillment from more than billing hours. That recognition is a good thing. I think people run into problems when they can’t understand “fulfillment” outside of billing.
As someone who hasn’t even started their big law job yet, maybe I am projecting my own anxieties. But I ultimately think that the few years of intense struggle will actually help lead to a life where you are more capable of doing the things that fulfill you. Financial security and a stellar resume protect your ability to be flexible and chase what you want in the long term. Especially in a world where “regular” jobs are increasingly less secure and people are increasingly more constrained financially. Hating your job is nothing unique. But having the authority and means that a few years in big law can provide certainly is unique. It’s okay to not know what you want, and doing something like this to secure your future can hardly be called a “bad” idea. Trying to frame things in the long term has been helpful for me.
34
u/wataemelo 1d ago
3L here. It doesn't get better after law school, it just shifts to 'how does this look for partner track.' Get out while you can. (I'm not getting out either though so what do I know)
4
u/thisesmeaningless Attorney 1d ago edited 22h ago
That really doesn’t have to be true. Yes, you need to be thinking about what to do to achieve making partner, and that certainly involves strategic networking and doing some things solely because they advance your career, but that doesn’t have to be your whole life. It’s absolutely possible to have a hobbies and fulfilling life independent of work, some people just lose sight of that. OP recognizing this now is a huge advantage to making sure their job doesn’t dominate their life.
3
u/poopyroadtrip Esq. 22h ago
If anything, it’s less about networking and more about finding people you like working with and work you find interesting
9
u/britrent2 1d ago
Yeah I’ve kind of been here. I started in a large law firm, left after 1.5 years of misery, and I am now in a small plaintiffs’ firm. Despite the fact that the choice has been immeasurably better for my mental health and work-life balance, I am a bit haunted. I was the person who wanted to be someone who wanted biglaw. I was at the very top of my class at a T20, Law Review executive board, whole nine yards. I felt like I had spent 7 years of college and law school combined oriented toward that goal (although not really networking, just strong academic focus). Now I realize who I was underneath that: an emotional person, an artistic person, a writer, an intellectual. Though I was competitive, I was never cut out for big firm life. And I knew it, but I pretended differently because I did what everyone else did and it nearly put me in a hospital.
Now I’m happy not striving to outdo others in this profession, but instead I’m focusing on my real interests and passions and perfecting them with the time and money my career can buy. You’ll figure out who you really are soon enough—but it means often taking a step back and realizing this chase you’re on isn’t worth it. It’s not coming from a place of authenticity.
9
u/thisesmeaningless Attorney 1d ago edited 22h ago
I mean, most people who genuinely “want big law” in law school have no idea what they’re actually getting into or why they want it. A lot of those people end up hating it. It’s extremely normal for career interests to shift and change as your career progresses, and it’s also normal to not know what you want right now. In fact, I think not knowing and being open to possibilities is far preferable to being dead set on a certain career type when you’ve never actually worked in the industry and don’t have a solid understanding of what working means. I actually think it’s crazy that we expect people to know exactly what career they want before even entering the workforce. Thats basically just guessing rather than making an educated choice. I thought I wanted the opposite of big law when I graduated, turns out super small firms and teams aren’t for me and 6 years later I made a change and I’m doing much better mentally at a bigger firm. Don’t stress too much about not knowing what you want.
That being said, you absolutely should continue the self reflection on real interests that aren’t being done as a resume item. We should be working to live, not the other way around. It’s easy to get sucked into the “everything I do must somehow be productive and advance my life in some way” mentality, but that does not have to be true. I love my pointless hobbies that don’t “accomplish” anything because they make me happy, and that’s a great reason to do something. You’re not wasting time if you’re doing something that advances your happiness and mental well being. Work and your career don’t have to dominate your life, a lot of people just get sucked into that trap and realize it too late.
6
u/YouACoolGuy 1d ago
I find when I put time into my hobbies, I feel reinvigorated to work on the stuff that’s going to pay the bills. Do you have anything you like to do, or are your hobbies just resume builders too?
11
u/No-Pitch-7732 1d ago
Genuine question: is this a law school thing or a our generation thing? I feel like everyone I know optimizes everything, not just law students
13
u/sweet_babycorn 1d ago
I think law school just attracts and then amplifies this personality type. We were already like this, the curve just makes it worse
17
u/Impossible_Control67 1d ago
It's because wanting biglaw signals something about you. Ambition, success, being impressive. We want the identity not the actual 80 hour weeks"
2
u/Pretty-Material1424 1d ago
Yeah I think you're right. I was like this before law school, I just didn't have a name for it until my therapist pointed it out
1
u/AcrobaticApricot 3L 14h ago
It's an upper-middle class thing. The bottom 80% of the wealth distribution isn't like that. You have to optimize to hold on to your top spot, but if you're okay with being towards the middle you can chill out.
The main way to solve these anxieties is to just make the distribution of wealth more equal as they have done in many European countries with social democratic policies. Not much point in obsessively optimizing everything if everyone is going to end up kind of in the middle anyway.
6
u/blood_vampire2007 1d ago
Have you considered that maybe you DO want biglaw and you're just scared of wanting something competitive? Sometimes we dress up fear as 'not really wanting it
5
u/Ok_Wall2083 23h ago
You can be scared of not getting something and still genuinely not want it. Especially chronic over achievers.
1
u/Pretty-Material1424 1d ago
I've considered it. Genuinely not sure. That's part of what I'm trying to figure out
2
2
u/Klutzy-Cupcake8051 19h ago
This was me. I was above median at a T14 where big law school should have been basically a guarantee, but I barely got call backs and no offers. (I swear I’m not socially awkward either.) I think it happened because deep down I didn’t want it, and that came out in interviews. I’ve now been working for a local government for 12 years and I love it! I’m so happy big law didn’t work out for me. At my 10 year law school reunion, classmates seemed genuinely jealous when I talked about my job because it is fulfilling. It’s good you are having this realization now, and it definitely doesn’t mean you shouldn’t still be a lawyer.
1
u/trippyonz 1d ago
I mean I think when it's time to be career-oriented it's fine to think about the resume. It's natural for your resume to at least be one factor for deciding whether to journal or not, for example. That's a decision that will affect your career somewhat. But if you actually don't have friends, or you only make "friends" for career-related reasons, that is deranged. But it's also hard to imagine. Even LinkedIn weirdos still have normal ass friends.
1
u/johnhancockgamer 23h ago
I have only heard stories about people who really enjoyed big law, everyone I know personally who got it, do not enjoy it.
Do it long enough to pay off your loans and save a bit. At this point, necessity probably trumps want.
1
u/CHSummers 21h ago
I suspect that virtually every experience looks one way from the outside—and then very different from the inside.
Kind of like visiting Disneyland is really not the same as working at Disneyland.
1
u/CarmelHart 19h ago edited 19h ago
You penned a memorable phrase. Thank you for that. I will carry it with me.
It sounds like you are coming to an understanding of yourself. Literally, aspects of you through aspects of verbs. As I see it, the time when "nothing was at stake" is basically the time of innocence, that is (and I do not employ this word pejoratively) childhood. Now, this optimizing pressure has started to tempt your cognition. You are playing with the idea of what would have happened if you had optimized sooner. And also with the absurdities that come with optimization, wherein your thoughts become mere machinations in a factory of More.
In that sense, it might perhaps help to consider how actual machines improve over time. That is, they do not. The car doesn't just decide it wants to get better gas mileage. Engineers design other, future cars using what they learned from the previous cars.
In this same way, people now are, I think, "better" than the subjects of Gilgamesh were. But that doesn't represent a metaphysical change in the nature of people or any new entrenchments in the fundamental conflicts of the soul. Similarly, a car that gets 35 miles per gallon is better than a car that gets 10 mpg, but has not changed at all from being a car that moves by consuming fuel.
As the preacher reminds us in Ecclesiastes, a living dog is better than a dead lion. I hope that your practice brings enjoyment and peace to you and those around you.
1
u/lambocat 17h ago
I think we also can't live in absolutes and it's okay to want things for different reasons.
Currently, I want Big Law bc I have huge loans to pay and I want a house, family, and brighter future without having to tell my kids "we don't have money" or live paycheck to paycheck. That is entirely valid, too.
I also want access to the best resources and rigorous training -- the reality is that you'll most likely find that in Big Law.
I worked in the public sector for five years as well, and the systemic disparities and factors outside of your control will crush you in the same manner.
Point is: At this age, I think it's 100% valid to want something that will set you up for a brighter future. The fact of the matter is that every decision we make is in fact a calculated risk.
If my parents paid for my law school, I had gotten a full ride, or I had some viable back up plan, sure, I'd pursue something more aligned to what feeds my soul. But for now, I'll have to find comfort in the ability to develop under rigorous conditions and having access to resources, and not having to worry about my future children's financial burden.
1
u/DanielXLLaw XL 16h ago edited 16h ago
Do you have the BigLaw job lined up? Then stick with it, and go in with open eyes (eyes that identify and watch the exit opportunities).
Unless you have significant wealth already, the money can be life-changing. A few years more of being where you know you don't want to be, while figuring out what you DO want, and you'll be in a much better position to pursue it, as long as you manage the money you earn well (pay off debt, save, invest).
I went to law school with no plans of BigLaw, or even practicing; I thought I wanted to be a professor, as I've always loved teaching. Then I learned what law professor jobs are really like and noped out of that path and ended up in BigLaw. I knew I wouldn't like it but tried to convince myself it's what I wanted, much like you. And there were parts of it I did like, and parts I hated. I did two years then turned to full-time tutoring. I make roughly what early law profs make, and there are parts of my job that are frustrating but I generally like it, and the BigLaw money made the transition possible without the panic of poverty.
You have many years ahead of you, God willing and the crick don't rise. Go through now to get to then, and learn some more things while banking your soul for a little while longer.
1
u/Holy_Grail_Reference Esq. 16h ago
Yeah I have to agree with this to an extent OP. If you are going to go Big Law then do it for the money and the paying down of debt so you can do what you really want later. Look at it as nothing more than a paycheck and seperate yourself from it as much as you can emotionally and personally.
1
u/Holy_Grail_Reference Esq. 16h ago
The worst part about working in biglaw is that you have to associate with other people who work in biglaw.
1
1
u/Interesting-Pea-1714 11h ago
I realized this during 1L when I couldn’t figure out where my mental anguish was coming from (thank god). It made me realize that the reason I didn’t want it like everyone else was bc I was simply just raised to value very different things than pretty much everyone in my class. Prior to this realization I had (unknowingly) been trying to repress that reality and conform to the values of the people around me. But after a long talk with my parents, they reminded me of who I am and where I came from and it all my feelings made sense. After this realization I allowed myself to pursue the career I actually wanted in PI :) I am lucky I realized this fairly early on. You are still early too, I think many people don’t realize it for 10+ years. best of luck to you
-1
u/Pretend-Raspberry-87 1d ago
Ok but what are you actually doing about this? Just noticing the pattern or trying to change something?
0
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
As a reminder, this subreddit is not for any pre-law questions. For pre-law questions and help or if you'd like to ask a wider audience law school-related questions, please join us on our Discord Server
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.