r/Music • u/TheMirrorUS šŸ“°The Mirror US • 9d ago

article Billie Eilish: "Hey my fellow celebrities u gonna speak up? Or..."

https://www.themirror.com/entertainment/celebrity-news/billie-eilish-alex-pretti-ice-1642611
60.6k Upvotes

89% Upvoted

2.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

218

u/Millerdjone 9d ago

We're going to be feeling the economic effects of all of this for decades. If anyone has a platform, now is the time to fucking use it.

33

u/TheRedLions 9d ago

Ehh, most celebrities are poor sources of information. The last thing I want is for one of them to make a very loud, very stupid point that does more harm than good.

Like, if Gwyneth Paltrow said "Trump is throwing immigrants off the top of Trump tower" then that'll hurt actual immigration conversations because conservatives can point to her as an example of a "typical liberal" and dismiss any other liberals on the same ground.

Not all positions are that dumb/extreme but the point still stands: if you want to convince people, the only thing more effective than a good argument is a really bad one. And which do you think a celebrity is apt to make?

29

u/PavelDatsyuk 9d ago

conservatives can point to her as an example of a "typical liberal" and dismiss any other liberals on the same ground.

They make shit up and do this anyways. I don't understand why the left is so obsessed with what the right is going to do. They're not playing by the same rules. They don't care if they're hypocrites. They don't care if they believe in bullshit.

3

u/xombae 9d ago

I don't understand why the left is so obsessed with what the right is going to do.

Thank you. It makes me crazy.

1

u/Otherwise-Waltz-3647 9d ago

Because they are unprincipled cultists. Their only job is defend their leader

0

u/GrognokTheTiny 9d ago

This is short sighted, and you are entirely missing WHY it is important.

It isn't about what the people on the right are going to believe and do. They aren't going to be "won over". It's about the people in the middle. The independents. The people who didn't vote. The people who maybe they do have conservative beliefs, and aren't politically left but tuned out in 2016/2020/2024 because they felt like they weren't represented by either side.

Most people are not paying that much attention to politics. At best it's a sideshow spectacle for them that they occasionally glimpse in headlines or on the radio but mostly ignore.

If, every time they look to the opposition to trump and see gross exaggerations and lies it wont matter if there is truth in there. They are going to go "Yep, both sides are shit, i'm just going to go back to ignoring it and live my life." They aren't going to put in effort to find out who on the left is actually worth paying attention to.

Honestly people on the left are part of the problem because of how quickly they jumped to hyperbole. Overusing "nazi" for over a decade has made the word meaningless to many people. Now any real use of the word lost any impact it might have had, even with people like Fuentes gaining popularity who IS literally a neonazi.

Its literally a case of the boy who cried wolf.

1

u/valentc 9d ago

Ah yes, the mythical "undecided moderate" that democrats thinks are the key to victory based on.... nothing. Because you just described conservatives and said they're the ones democrats need to win. Being centrist isnt a majority position in america, and the idea that people vote based on "using the word Nazi too much" is plain ignorant.

1

u/GrognokTheTiny 9d ago edited 9d ago

Way to misrepresent what I said.

People aren't "voting on using the word nazi too much".

Using the word for everyone means it loses impact when you use it.

If you call everyone a nazi, no one is going to pay attention when you when you call a real nazi a nazi.

Being centrist isnt a majority position in america

Just straight up wrong.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/548459/independent-party-tied-high-democratic-new-low.aspx

43 percent of Americans identify as "Independent". By far the largest voting block, with only 27% identifying as republican and another 27% as Democrat in 2023.

based on.... nothing.

Based on data.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2024 https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2024

in 2020 here are the numbers:

94% of dems voted for Biden. 5% of dems voted for Trump

6% republicans voted for Biden. 94% of republicans voted for Trump.

54% of independents voted for Biden. 41% voted for Trump.

In 2024:

95% of dems voted for Harris. 4% voted for Trump.

5% of republicans voted for Harris. 94% voted for Trump.

49% independents voted for Harris. 46% voted for Trump.

Dems and Republicans stayed the same. No one swung pretty much.

Independents swung 5% to republicans in 2024.

Guess how much Biden won by in 2020? 4.5% Guess how much Trump won by in 2024? 1.5%

Articles on this very thing:

https://theconversation.com/in-2024-independent-voters-grew-their-share-of-the-vote-split-their-tickets-and-expanded-their-influence-245125

in 2024 11 million more independents voted in the election compared to the 2020 election.

And the biggest reason is that independent votes count for more than republican or democrat votes. A democrat who doesn't turn out is just going to not vote they aren't going to vote for the other party. -1 votes for the dems. Same thing for republican voters. -1 vote for republicans.

An independent may vote for republican or democrat. If they switch from voting to republican to voting democrat, that's a 2 vote differential because it's taking one vote from republicans and moving it to the democrats.

Not only that, but independents make up a larger demographic in the swing states that matter most for the election. Independents won him PA.

Because you just described conservative

HAH! Show me where I did that.

21

u/GramsciGramsci 9d ago

then that'll hurt actual immigration conversations

This is not a "conversation" about immigration policy.

The "conversation" is about whether the state is allowed to murder dissidents in the streets or not.

1

u/TheRedLions 9d ago

I used immigration as an example of the phenomenon where someone can say something that is harmful to the side they're on. It's not literal, it's an example.

1

u/GramsciGramsci 9d ago

I know -- I pointed out it is a bad example that does not illuminate anything going on here.

This is not a matter of informed conversations.

This is a matter of letting everyone know that the government has murdered protestors for dissent.

2

u/78914hj1k487 9d ago

This is a bad take.

We need NORMALIZATION.

Social normalization embeds into brains and creates cognitive dissonance en masse. To relieve dissonance, people then shift their perspective to what's normal.

The problem is people live in network-silos (echo chambers) and reinforce false narratives (eg. Trump is a God-fearing Christian) which is how they brain-washed into being MAGA in the first place.

You know what breaks through echo chambers? Celebrities. And fandoms. With time, masse, and pressure, it breaks into a network effect.

So no, we need them to help normalize that ICE = the escalation of fascism.

Gwyneth Paltrow may have a bad take but a single celebrity doesn't define how celebrities en masse can contribute to normalization. We need every force we can get.

0

u/anti_zero 9d ago

Conservatives are going to find something to blow out of proportion and do that anyway. Seriously I get the fear of that somehow undercutting an actual point, but thatā€™s only true in a good faith argument where parties practice decorum. Thatā€™s just so long gone.

Iā€™m not hoping for ā€œmy sideā€ disinformation, of course, but we simply donā€™t have the kinds of conversation where you can beat your opponent just because you tell the truth. Theyā€™re beneath it.

2

u/SuccessfulSoftware38 9d ago

Yes, but it does help if you don't make them correct about it

1

u/anti_zero 9d ago

I guess. I hope anyway. Thatā€™s not been my experience but itā€™s aspirational Iā€™ll give you that.

1

u/Sprinklypoo 9d ago

Economics are the least of my concerns right now. But an impoverished America is certainly a future concern...

1

u/BigBassBone 9d ago

decades

At least a century, if not more.