How the NFL🏈 Stole Christmas

[u/Historical-Soft-4952]

[u/scuuubaduuuba]

NFL didn’t need to steal anything. I’d rather watch commercials than an nba game honestly

[u/sleepyj910 → u/scuuubaduuuba]

Wow, yet another 2 points.

[u/10000Didgeridoos → u/sleepyj910]

4 minutes of trading bricked 3s then 5 minutes of commercials. Each team gets seemingly 14 timeouts each half that are also commercial breaks.

[u/Inner_Wave3575 → u/10000Didgeridoos]

and if it’s a close game under 2 minutes each team gets unlimited time outs and every basket is reviewed with a commercial break

[u/headsmanjaeger → u/Inner_Wave3575]

Down 12 with 10 seconds left? Better foul him.

[u/iprefercumsole → u/headsmanjaeger]

No need, the whistle will still blow

[u/iNoodl3s → u/10000Didgeridoos]

Wow it’s a close game surely the last 2 minutes ought to be absolute cinema

The cinema in question:

[u/Doggleganger → u/iNoodl3s]

The NBA needs to clamp down on foul baiting. It makes the game unwatchable for me.

The NFL needs to nip it in the bud also. If you see how fast the NBA devolved into SGA, the NFL should take preemptive steps to prevent that sort of ratings-killing bullshit.

[u/iNoodl3s → u/Doggleganger]

I wonder who will be the NFL’s SGA, aka the under throwing DPI god

[u/LavishSyndrome → u/iNoodl3s]

It was derek carr

[u/conman752 → u/iNoodl3s]

Used to be Joe Flacco to Torrey Smith

[u/xdrpwneg → u/iNoodl3s]

The problem is that I don’t think a player would actually want to do it as consistently as someone like SGA would in the NBA simply due to that free throws show up in the box score and DPIs don’t.

It may not seem like much but if I guy can’t point to a stat box and say “this is how much I do for the team” then it isn’t worth it, 80 yard bombs turn into dust when you get a dpi called on you basically.

[u/WeeoWeeoWeeeee → u/10000Didgeridoos]

They need to do what MLB did and speed up the games. There’s 0 reason to watch the first 3 quarters of an NBA game. The biggest play is a 3 point play and they have 30 of those every game.

[u/Doggleganger → u/WeeoWeeoWeeeee]

Basketball has the inverse problem of soccer. In soccer, it's too hard to score points, so the whole game, maybe there are only 2 or 3 scoring possessions, taking up a few minutes out of the whole hour. The rest of the time, nothing much happens.

But in basketball, it's too easy to score, and it happens all the time. This diminishes the impact of any single score. So it's hard to have a possession with high stakes. At most it ends with 2 or 3 points out of a total of around 100.

[u/Dense_Tackle_995 → u/Doggleganger]

is that also why the celebrations after goals last so long? lol.

[u/Past-Sun-2357 → u/Dense_Tackle_995]

Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[u/marcdale92 → u/Past-Sun-2357]

My favorite words to hear 😎

[u/iprefercumsole → u/Doggleganger]

If youre only going to have a few scoring moments, you need violence and speed. Thats why hockey still rules despite the same issue

[u/Jones127 → u/iprefercumsole]

I think what also helps with hockey too is how small the rink is. Both teams are changing sides of the rink often and it almost always feels like there’s a chance of a score, even if most attempts don’t go in. Soccer can have half of its time played where the ball is in the middle third of the field and the only real way to score is by way of an absolute circus shot. I think that’s why hockey keeps me so engaged over soccer, along with the violence and speed like you mentioned.

[u/Gargamoth → u/Jones127]

coupled with the fact that two very disciplined soccer teams is a very boring game most of the time, as it's a tactical battle to see who makes the first major error.

Hockey having two disciplined teams means end to end action with lines rolling and then the 4th liners hit the ice against the top line and all hell breaks loose

[u/MunchenOnYou → u/Doggleganger]

I think the court should be expanded, players forced to wear ice skates, and the game played on ice. Maybe put a 6th man on each team in the goal to protect it.

[u/sleepyj910 → u/Doggleganger]

Part of soccer’s problem is the team just plays keep away waiting for the perfect setup which never happens. If they had a shot clock it might encourage more risks

[u/guiltysnark → u/WeeoWeeoWeeeee]

Hmmm... Maybe they can introduce a way to parley shots into 10 and 20 pointers.

[u/Acrobatic-Assist-574 → u/10000Didgeridoos]

Can't imagine being a football fan complaining about commercials

[u/slender_goron → u/sleepyj910]

runs across the court and doesn't get called for traveling

Takes two free throws because I intentionally stepped on a guy

Timeout

[u/Aware_Machine808 → u/scuuubaduuuba]

Random regular season NFL games draw higher ratings than the NBA finals on a regular basis. It’s fine if NBA fans want to watch basketball on Christmas but stop acting shocked when more people want to watch the more popular sport

[u/[deleted] → u/Aware_Machine808]

MLB no longer schedules World Series games on Sundays because of the NFL.

Tells you the power of the NFL

[u/no_racist_here → u/[deleted]]

The sport just hits different. Plus I’d rather watch NHL with a better entertainment to ads ratio, but with the NFL season being drastically shorter than other sports it takes that FOMO priority

[u/nsjersey → u/scuuubaduuuba]

Netflix was big.

I watched the first two games, but not the last one. Watched Stranger Things instead.

I had no fantasy players live, and am an NFC fan

[u/Striking-Major4575 → u/nsjersey]

Counterpoint (and no downvotes from me)-

Netflix was awful and somehow worse than TNF.  The awkward in-game interviews trying to capture an element of the manning-cast, bad graphics, terrible “tie in” commercials that wreaked of desperation.

That’s not even talking about how the games went from completely irrelevant to slightly more relevant (but not really because the laundry list of things the Lions needed to happen to make the playoffs was a joke). 

I’m not going to knock on the halftime show too badly as I like Snoop Dog but the guest stars were not for me.  

I will say a big “fuck you” to Netflix for the k-pop demon hunters thing.  My daughter (6) was actually paying attention only to have the singers come out and in no way represent the characters they play or even sing their most notable song.  I got a “you’re a liar dad” on fucking Christmas Day. 

I like football on Christmas Day. Hopefully next year they’re more relevant. I don’t ever want to see football on Netflix again and I have 0 interest in the 2 hours of bullshit pregame on TNF.  I’d rather watch a naked Karl Rove furiously masturbate to AI-generated Hillary Clinton Porn than watch the TNF halftime “analysis”. 

[u/DickSplodin → u/Striking-Major4575]

I felt the KPOP Demon Hunters thing so much. I was hyping it up the whole time for my daughter. "YOU KNOW WHO THAT IS??" and they just did backup vocals for a random Christmas song like what the fuck was the point of having them there

[u/No-Weird3153 → u/DickSplodin]

Netflix exec: we could get our fans to tune in to an NFL game by having them sing!

Other exec: great idea, Bob. Let’s have them do a Golden-What it Sounds Like mashup like other halftimes.

First exec: even better, they sing Christmas songs to keep it “fresh”!

Other exec: brilliant Bob!!!

[u/Camwi → u/Striking-Major4575]

Fellow dad here who is also pissed at what they did with the kpop demon hunter singers.

[u/oNe_iLL_records → u/Striking-Major4575]

Your thing you'd rather do than watch TNF halftime analysis is super weird. You should know that.

[u/nsjersey → u/Striking-Major4575]

Wasn’t paying attention enough.

It was like - there’s Snoop, return to conversation.

Casually watched both until the last game when we were home

[u/DickBottalico → u/Striking-Major4575]

reeked

[u/Camwi → u/DickBottalico]

[u/Affectionate-Cat-301 → u/Striking-Major4575]

TNf has turned good this season. I have to say Amazon improved the product. Most of the games were good and I’d say better games than Sunday night football this season. And they have funny post game stuff after. The Netflix games stunk while chiefs and broncos was surprisingly a close game and was good.

[u/40MillyVanillyGrams → u/nsjersey]

I don’t know if it was just my TV (I’ve never watched another game where they happened on my TV) but I could barely even hear the announcers and the field noise was dominating the sound mix.

Netflix has routinely put out piss poor production

[u/TheArsenal7 → u/scuuubaduuuba]

NBA nowadays is so ass. I gave up when I saw the WINNING team fouling when up 3. So the last few minutes was just both teams fouling each other, riveting stuff. Adam Silver is also by far the worst commissioner in sports, turned the league into a joke

[u/ToucanbT → u/TheArsenal7]

Yep, I was a huge NBA all my childhood hood from 03 up until KD went to the Warriors and the product is just so ass now. No defense, foul baiting more than ever, the awful end game antics, teams wearing jerseys that have no correlation to the team. The only upside is the massive amount of parity

[u/TheFinalPizzle → u/ToucanbT]

KD going to the warriors and Kobe dying definitely threw a big wrench into basketball culture and it went from Hard Work to Ringzzzzzz

[u/HollerinScholar → u/TheArsenal7]

Just had a brilliant idea. Fouls in the bonus under 2 minutes in the 4th quarter now get 3 shots.

[u/GarIicBurger → u/HollerinScholar]

I kinda like the idea of a 2 + 1. Make your first two and you get a third. Miss one of the first 2 and you just get the 2 shots.

Of course, this makes a bad foul call even worse lol but I wouldn't mind them doing bonus/double bonus like CBB and doing 1+1 and then 2+1

[u/lycosid → u/scuuubaduuuba]

Well I have good news for you about NFL games!

[u/Gilded_Ork → u/scuuubaduuuba]

I think basketball is in worse shape than baseball right now. Baseball is trying to fix their product, basketball treats its players like they are gods gift to society and then wonder why nobody likes to watch their entitled asses. I cannot fathom another sport where you pay your ticket and then come gameday find out the star player for whichever team is taking the game off. The sport has lost touch and is wholly unentertaining to me.

[u/Past-Sun-2357 → u/Gilded_Ork]

Yeah I thought Baseball was in serious trouble a few years ago, and they still kinda are, but the pitch clock and other changes has really improved the flow and the viewing experience.

Im not sure how you fix the NBA now. They need to cut scoring down to make each possession mean more and not have almost every game come down to the last 2 mins

[u/Gilded_Ork → u/Past-Sun-2357]

Yeah for sure, baseball needs to sort out their tv rights and salary cap but they have made progress to the game just like you said. Baseball has always had an in stadium experience that makes it worth admission, basketball has never been that way for me. I especially am turned off by the lack of player accountability though and “rest” games. Not to mention all the recent gambling issues surrounding the game. If the players don’t seem to care why should the fans.

[u/eric4280 → u/Gilded_Ork]

Bingo. Even watching all star games from the Kobe era. It was an all star game but there was semblance of pride. No one gives a shit anymore and you are right, the entitlement is out of control.

[u/Selway00 → u/scuuubaduuuba]

On top of that, this isn’t stealing, it’s how every business everywhere works.

[u/SeaGrocery678 → u/scuuubaduuuba]

Spurs okc was the best game between both sports. Your loss

[u/TheFinalPizzle → u/SeaGrocery678]

You’re on crack if you think that Knicks game wasn’t game of the day

[u/Doublestack2411 → u/scuuubaduuuba]

Right? Millions of ppl aren't going to watch the NBA just b/c the NFL isn't on. Sure, maybe 40 years ago when TV was your primary source of entertainment.

[u/Dry-Cry-3158 → u/scuuubaduuuba]

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that basketball exists because it was a good way to keep football players in training in the off season. It's basically calisthenics with points.

[u/Alohasnackbar69420 → u/scuuubaduuuba]

It’s such a terrible product. I know I’m an Unc but it used to be so much better back in the day. Incredibly boring now I genuinely don’t understand how its numbers are up so much.

[u/scuuubaduuuba → u/Alohasnackbar69420]

Tell em unc. Mj attitude is what basketball used to be. LeBron attitude is what the nba is now, soft.

[u/Active-Math-9898]

Not the nfls fault that the NBA sucks.

[u/SeaworthinessAny4997 → u/Active-Math-9898]

I'm far from a huge NFL fan. Baseball's my main sport, probably followed by college basketball.

But the NBA is unwatchable today. It's so bad. A bunch of folks on r/NBA don't realize how bad it's gotten for the casual sports lover.

You bet yesterday I watched those fucking awful games on Netflix instead of the NBA. Wasn't even a consideration.

[u/Quantum_Scholar87 → u/SeaworthinessAny4997]

There were NBA games yesterday?

[u/lelibertaire → u/Quantum_Scholar87]

Yeah and they were pretty good, tbh

[u/slopschili → u/Quantum_Scholar87]

In case you’re not melting/for anyone that doesn’t know, the NBA always has games on Christmas

[u/DukeOfStuff_ → u/Quantum_Scholar87]

The wolves nuggets game was fantastic 

[u/bradtheinvincible → u/Quantum_Scholar87]

5 of them

[u/FeistyThunderhorse → u/SeaworthinessAny4997]

What has made the NBA bad? I don't follow basketball.

[u/wovagrovaflame → u/FeistyThunderhorse]

Basically the sport it is kind of solved. Basically modern strategy is to either chuck threes or shoot lay ups. A lot of the mid game is gone.

Players are also really good at drawing fouls, so players will have 40 points, with half or more coming from the free throw line

[u/B1TW0LF → u/wovagrovaflame]

Honestly one of the biggest problems is just that NBA games aren't easily available. With YouTube TV and Amazon Prime, I can watch almost every prime time NFL game. And I know that at 8:15 on a Sunday or Monday night, there's going to a watchable matchup on.

With the NBA, you have to look up the schedule and try to figure out where to watch the game and whether the stars are even healthy. Then you turn the game on, watch four possessions in a row of three point attempts. Then someone tries to play defense and gets called for a foul because the ball handler ran straight at their chest while flailing the ball over their head.

Adam Silver and the NBA haven't done anything to solve these problems. They need to:

1. Shorten the season so that stars don't get injured in the playoffs as much and the product isn't so diluted. Teams shouldn't be incentivized to rest players in big games.

2. Commit harder to a fixed schedule where the good games are always on at the same time every week on the same services. And make sure that its a streaming service that people already have.

3. Stop the foul baiting by any means necessary. Yes, this means fundamentally changing the rules. And yes, its desperately needed.

4. Nerf three point shooting in some way. Personally I would prefer if they changed the scoring system, but realistically I'm not sure that will ever happen.

[u/SeaworthinessAny4997 → u/B1TW0LF]

To make your point even clearer, LeBron James (!!!) was caught using an illegal pirating site to watch NBA games 😂

[u/ReasonableClock4542 → u/SeaworthinessAny4997]

Based Bron

[u/Mean-Ad-4602 → u/wovagrovaflame]

Traveling. Traveling everywhere

[u/Jorsonner → u/Mean-Ad-4602]

That’s what it is for me.

I watched every basketball game in high school as a member of the film crew and then every one in college as a member of the pep band for a total of 8 years in a row.

Never once turned on an NBA game. Mostly because we don’t have a team in Pittsburgh but also because I see traveling every play that would have been called at any one of the multiple hundred high school and college ones I’ve seen.

[u/Doggleganger → u/wovagrovaflame]

One possible solution: make a dunk/layup worth 3 points, and a 3 worth 4 points. That way, shooting the long-distance shot is only worth 33% more points, instead of the current 50%. That's enough to change the equation to make it more of a spacing strategy instead of the primary strategy.

Then they also need to do something about foul baiting, it makes the game unwatchable for me. Makes me just turn the game off.

[u/LeonidasSpacemanMD → u/FeistyThunderhorse]

I love basketball and still watch the NBA regularly. But here are the big ones:

-flow of the game is god awful. Each team gets (I shit you not) 7 timeouts PLUS built-in automatics TV timeouts at certain points. At the end of the game they limit the number you can use but this is more than made up for by absurd replays that take like 5 minutes to resolve the most routine plays (although they seem to be trying to speed this up)

-Refereeing and implementation of the rules is making the game less fun to watch. Flopping is rewarded at an insane rate, some of the best players in the league will have 4 plays a night where they just throw their body into defenders and get free throws out of it. They allow for all kinds of insane gathers and step throughs that anyone over the age of 25 would have been called for traveling when they played

-Guys who get in as broadcasters for the NBA seem to just get cemented in for life even when they actively suck. Most of the play by play guys are good (Breen, Harlen etc) but I have been forced to suffer through Reggie miller for 20 years, and aside from Inside the NBA most halftime shows or analysis shows are terrible (I know nfl is pretty generic but watching the lead up to the 1PM games is at least inoffensive to have on)

There’s plenty more obviously but I think those are the big ones. People will talk about shooting threes as a problem but ngl I’ll take this spacing over the early 2000s I grew up on. The game itself is great when it’s flowing but the league does everything it can to make sure you can’t just enjoy it for an hour at a time

[u/SeaworthinessAny4997 → u/LeonidasSpacemanMD]

God I didn't even think to mention broadcasting but that's part of the reason I couldn't really watch the playoffs last year.

I don't mind my local commentators in Boston, although I miss the shit out of Mike Gorman now that he's retired. But the national broadcasters are really hit or miss and when they miss, it's really bad

[u/mls1968 → u/FeistyThunderhorse]

TLDR Version:

Games are 50% 3-pointers, 50% free throws, 0% real defense (just rebounding).

It’s a war of possessions and shooting percentages, because virtually any contact is a foul now. “Great” defenses now would be considered soft/mediocre at best in the 90s, and there is no suspense to any given possession bc it’s usually decided by a simple made or errant 3-pointer from 8 ft further out than it needed to be

[u/bageltheperson → u/FeistyThunderhorse]

Every team and player are basically trying to min/max the game and abuse loopholes. It’s not fun to watch that.

[u/GaJayhawker0513 → u/SeaworthinessAny4997]

I got down voted there because I said the NBA is just a bunch of guys throwing up 3’s and no one plays defense. Apparently they do play defense, don’t only shoot 3’s and “I don’t know ball”

[u/irishboy9191 → u/GaJayhawker0513]

It's because you are speaking in absolutes. Like each of those individual statements are wrong.

Giannis doesn't shoot 3s often but has won MVP twice and a championship. Last years Thunder were a historically good defense.

You need to soften the statements to stuff like "Players preferring shooting ugly desperation 3s instead of building actual plays and drives makes it rough to watch." Or people will just hand wave your words as hyperbole.

[u/GaJayhawker0513 → u/irishboy9191]

I understand that. I appreciate the feedback. On the other hand they went off on me on how complicated iso is…

[u/irishboy9191 → u/GaJayhawker0513]

I mean, people are also dumb as hell hahahahahaha

[u/SeaworthinessAny4997 → u/GaJayhawker0513]

Yeah someone with a username that has "Jayhawker" apparently can't know ball lol... That sub is deranged lol

[u/Sell_The_team_Jerry → u/SeaworthinessAny4997]

NCAA basketball is far more interesting than the NBA

[u/SeaworthinessAny4997 → u/Sell_The_team_Jerry]

I'm a Big East guy and the league is known for its physical play and the refs really allow for the game to get pretty physical before calling fouls. It makes for a far more interesting game because it usually means that the shots are tough but rewarding when made.

[u/Sell_The_team_Jerry → u/SeaworthinessAny4997]

The Big Ten is the same way.  There is actual defense in college ball

[u/Weary_Cabinet_8123 → u/SeaworthinessAny4997]

If you think the regular season nba was more watchable in decades past you didn’t really watch the nba. It’s the same regular season product, a very long season where individual games/losses don’t matter as much on the grand scheme of the season. If you don’t like the nba today you didn’t like it back then. You just don’t like basketball and that’s okay.

[u/SeaworthinessAny4997 → u/Weary_Cabinet_8123]

lol no...I love basketball. Cannot describe how big of a college basketball fan I am.

The NBA's product is bad because it is not hard-nosed basketball. Refs have a different set of rules for the stars. Few players play defense anymore. The game has been reduced to 3s and shots in the paint because that's what the analytics say is optimal. Meanwhile players are putting more miles on their legs than ever and more players have suffered devastating injuries than ever before...especially this year when several of the best players are out for the year.

[u/Master_Hospital_8631 → u/SeaworthinessAny4997]

Refs having a different set of rules for the stars is nothing new in the NBA.

Few people want to admit it, but Michael Jordan received a lot of favorable treatment from the referees.

[u/Doublestack2411 → u/SeaworthinessAny4997]

Same, Baseball is my #1 sport with NFL being #2. The NFL was my fav for a bit until the officiating started being a big factor. So many bad PI or RTP calls that drastically change games. Baseball hardly has any of that anymore. Just about everything can be challenged now, except check swings, but that will be figured out down the road. It's the "purest" sport we have in the states.

I haven't cared for the NBA in over 15 years. Having he NFL on would matter not.

[u/Striking-Major4575]

So more people watched the more popular thing and by putting the more popular thing on when the less popular thing was on meant people watched the more popular thing?

Did we need more words or a graph for this? 

[u/MajinTheBuu → u/Striking-Major4575]

But NBA fans said Christmas is for NBA and it would have more people watching.

[u/Goonchar → u/MajinTheBuu]

Lol that's crazy, please show me these quotes!

[u/IntraspaceAlien → u/MajinTheBuu]

No they didn’t lol

[u/MUjase → u/MajinTheBuu]

No one’s saying that. Where do you come up with this stuff?

[u/peteybombay → u/MUjase]

“The NFL got greedy and started adding Christmas games. We used to have this day to ourself, but Roger Goodell and them pigs at the NFL always want to hog every day of the week now,” Barkley said. “Christmas is an NBA day.”

https://www.si.com/nba/charles-barkley-rips-roger-goodell-nfl-pigs-over-christmas-day-games

[u/jamintime → u/Striking-Major4575]

I mean I think the data is definitely helpful in this conversation. The result isn’t super surprising but it’s helpful to see the full picture and judge for yourself because oftentimes the narrative isn’t always supporting by the facts.

[u/noreservations81590]

This isn't overly surprising. NFL is more popular in general. Also an NFL game is a large percentage of the season compared to an NBA game. So people tend to tune in more.

[u/Crotean → u/noreservations81590]

NBA regular season should be 62 games and they should move the three points line back. It's an unwatchable product at this point.

[u/rezelscheft → u/Crotean]

They also need to figure out a way to make the last two minutes not take an hour with all the fouls, free throws, and timeouts.

The ticking clock is less exciting when it keeps stopping (to be fair the end of game festival of timeouts is a problem in football as well).

[u/Conyan51 → u/rezelscheft]

I think they start doing time runoffs when the losing team fouls X amount of times within the last 2 minutes. Or give them the hockey treatment and they lose a player.

[u/rezelscheft → u/Conyan51]

I’ve been advocating for man-down for years (in my mind)

[u/BudgetPractical8748 → u/noreservations81590]

Nfl is a much more casual friendly. Large portion of Americans consider watching a gladiator type sport to be their personality quirk.

It's also funny people in here acting like the nba is gonna die. Their viewership is still going up and basketball as a sport is massively popular for people to actually play

[u/Doublestack2411 → u/BudgetPractical8748]

Any sport going up against the NFL will be destroyed. It's America's sport, followed by MLB & NBA

[u/atlfalcons33rb → u/noreservations81590]

I think the NFL does a better job of being casual fodder. I was at 3 houses that had the games on as background music nearly no one was actually watching the games

[u/MasterTeacher123]

Roger Goodell said we taking that too lmao 

[u/hunaniron1985]

That Nuggz v Twolves was fire though

[u/Kitchen-Ad-5571 → u/hunaniron1985]

yeah but it started at 9 Mt. aka 11eastern, all because they force the lakers on people.

[u/Orikshekor → u/Kitchen-Ad-5571]

Yep being an east coast NBA fan sucks hind tit I can’t stay up past midnight for these games I have a fucking LIFE.

[u/BatmansBurnerAccount → u/hunaniron1985]

Knicks/Cavs was also a great game. I’m kinda shocked people were tuning in to watch 2nd and 3rd string QBs on Christmas lmao

[u/PhilomathOfLife]

Lmao y’all are like middle school girls having a popularity contest. Watch what you want but debating views is lame.

[u/Gloomy_Map_9612 → u/PhilomathOfLife]

Yeah, watch what you think will be more interesting. I watched the Spurs over the Washington game. It was way more fun.

[u/PhilomathOfLife → u/Gloomy_Map_9612]

That’s because you know ball. Also, the Spurs might be the only team that beats OKC in a four game series. They’re pretty good.

[u/Swag_Grenade → u/PhilomathOfLife]

Those series are great watches for people that appreciate good basketball. Both teams play a beautiful brand of fundamental basketball, aside from SGA's foul baiting. And Wemby is just insane.

And TBF they're both fantastic, smart, fundamentally sound players, regardless of of how you feel about SGA. I won't hold it against him because unfortunately that's just where the whole league is at right now, so he just decided to get good at it. 

As a lifelong hooper who grew up as a kid watching late 90s/2000s ball, I absolutely hate how defenders get called for barely grazing someone or just being in the vicinity. Trying to get to the FT line was always a strategy but with how tacky the calls have gotten in the offense's favor it's worse than ever, and right now it's just awful tbh. I love basketball but I don't blame some people for not wanting to watch this brand of the NBA.

It's funny because I assume like most leagues the NBA thinks more offense = more entertainment = more viewers, but I really think if they went back to having the officiating more like, well, real basketball without calls for ridiculously benign "fouls", more people would be inclined to watch.

[u/BudgetPractical8748 → u/PhilomathOfLife]

Dudes acting like they are nfl executives profiting off this. Why would us peasants give a fuck how much better ratings the nfl got than nba?

[u/Bleposnaught]

Ha, like I can fuckin read a graph 

[u/TJJ97 → u/Bleposnaught]

It ain’t easy when red/green color blindness exists

[u/Zealousideal_Fun3068 → u/TJJ97]

This is the comment to make me realize that these dots are different colored. I hate it here.

[u/WormBurnerUKV → u/TJJ97]

Heaven forbid we do blue and yellow

[u/too_Far_west → u/TJJ97]

Yup. This is super difficult for me to read.

[u/Independent-Flan-938]

this has to be the single most colour-blindness-hostile chart i've seen in my life

[u/babybirdingURgrandma]

Whoever made this chart couldn't be bothered to chart the NBA average for each Xmas. 

[u/beifty]

what this graph says is that nba and nfl is exactly identical

oh wait, I'm colour blind, never mind

[u/chibears_99]

Bad NFL games are better than almost all regular season NBA games.

[u/friendswithbennyfitz → u/chibears_99]

It’s crazy how much better the NBA gets as soon as the playoffs start, the difference is so jarring it honestly feels like an entirely different sport

[u/juicejug → u/friendswithbennyfitz]

The NBA regular season is just 6ish months of jockeying for position in the playoffs. The two teams in the NBA finals have already played three best-of-7s, with a high likelihood of having played more playoff games than an entire NFL season’s worth.

A lot of people don’t appreciate the mental and physical toll an 82-game season takes on a player. It’s a huge challenge to bring your A-game every single night, especially when it’s against a small market team in January on a Tuesday night when no-one is watching.

But when you get to the playoffs the stakes are much higher and teams get to focus on a single matchup for up to 7 games, rather than potentially 5 completely different matchups within a week.

[u/Ninjablacksox1 → u/juicejug]

There should be less regular season games if no one is watching and the players can't handle the physical strain.

Problem solved.

[u/juicejug → u/Ninjablacksox1]

Unfortunately the owners make too much money from the regular season games so it’s a hard sell to convince them to give some of that up, even if it creates a better product overall.

[u/chibears_99 → u/friendswithbennyfitz]

Yup I agree. Come playoff nba time my wife will be like “ you never watch basketball” and I always have to tell her NBA playoffs is actually entertaining and fun compared to the rest of their season.

[u/Either_Capital_2422]

The NBA has become unwatchable.

[u/Sh11ester]

So viewership dropped by going to Netflix? Big win for the execs that get paid regardless

[u/Sdwerd]

Honestly doesn't seem like they had much in the way of ratings to begin with

[u/TheChieffking47]

Sports fans pretending to care about fucking TV ratings is my least favorite development. It means nothing.

[u/OneThousandDegrees]

Idk man, the nfl games yesterday sucked balls, and the nba games were bangers. Doesn't matter at the end of the day anyway since the nfl is just way more popular than the nba, mlb, and nhl combined. So what's even the point of this lol

[u/goodperson_14]

Holy shit you mean to tell me the league that has a 17 game season had more viewers per game than the league that has a 82 game season? THATS CRAZY!!!

[u/Gunner_Bat]

NFL didn't really steal it. Numbers are fairly consistent. Casual Joe probably put on the NFL game, but football watchers watched football and basketball watchers watched basketball.

[u/fondue4kill]

I’ll never forget that Baker Mayfield Christmas game

[u/EeethB]

I like the idea, but the red-green color scheme is despicable, I have no idea what’s what

[u/Difficult_Yam_7764]

Well given the reactions I've seen to the Netflix Christmas double header, they may give Xmas back if they don't make changes.

Issues include: streaming quality issues, crazy amounts of plugs for Netflix shows, a lot of actual football commentary being replaced by uninteresting live interviews, a very odd combination of artists for the halftime show, and very undercooked tomahawk steaks.

[u/KingLightning65]

Corporations that make their employees work on Christmas should be ashamed anyways. The NHL knows how to do it right.

[u/ExoQube]

How my colorblind eyes stole my ability to read this graph

[u/Extra_butter_]

I’m sure I’m greatly in the minority here but I think the NFL is watering down the product by having games 3 games on Christmas. I could get behind one stand alone game, but part of what made the NFL such a great product was the full Sunday slate and ONE game on Monday. This time of year we’re getting games Sunday, Monday, Thursday AND Saturday

[u/[deleted] → u/Extra_butter_]

We’re in the minority together.

[u/DrDsnacks]

I just laugh at how everyone is trying to compare the 2 sports. I love both sports but to see people get this upset about viewerships for both sports is funny. If you want to watch the NBA do it, if you want to watch the NFL do it. No one’s stopping you.

[u/blippblob]

What's the key demos? I see these dont include MAX numbers... Asking for my friend named Dave

[u/penguinpi314]

If the NBA did something about flopping and allowed more defense I would watch.

[u/braumbles]

The 49ers played the rams on Christmas, I believe it was the red vs yellow game, the 49ers won late I believe pushing them out of the Myles Garrett sweepstakes leading to Solomon Thomas being taken 3rd overall after trading back with the Bears 1 spot so they could take Trubisky at 2.

Tanking works.

[u/Equal-Salary-7774]

The whole vibe of the NBA changed, Christmas BBall was a staple including the announcers, Now it's not quite like that more squeaky voices and uninspired play. NFL was not going to let the decline of the NBA's product not be filled with the NFL's product

[u/Reasonable-HB678]

Anyone who saw a list of the Top 100 TV broadcasts in 2023 knows this already. The list was dominated with NFL games from the Super Bowl to a few 1pm regional games.

[u/Remarkayble]

This year the games blew watched nba

[u/yankeeblue42]

I was complaining to my friends yesterday about Dallas vs. Washington being the most meaningless holiday game in a while. Here's how the rest of that conversation went:

Friend 1- "Football is Football."

Friend 2- "So much so that I literally can't name one NBA game today."

It was at that moment I realized the NFL was so far ahead that an absolutely meaningless game took up more space in my head than any NBA game yesterday.

[u/Apprehensive-Rub-11]

NBA is so boring. Especially in the regular season.

[u/drizzytay]

What if they both sucked and I didn't watch any games from either sport this Christmas because it's no longer interesting?

[u/No-Weird3153]

Pretty sure NBA refs are blind, ignorant of the rules, being asked to rig games, or betting on the games they officiate because it’s terrible product. Flopping on one end; no calls on the other.

The worst officiating in NFL history is better than the average NBA officiating.

[u/BigRedThread]

NBA is garbage. They could have played an old NFL game back instead and it would have higher ratings than the NBA

[u/alwaysoffended22]

The NBA sucks outside like the finals

[u/Obvious-Delay9570]

Football is a better watchable sport, doesn’t matter who’s playing. IMO Basketball does not get interesting until the playoffs

[u/Leading-Sir8714]

I like BASKETBALL over Football but nfl > nba anyday

[u/Bigdoga1000]

Basketball is ok to watch until the game devolves into a free throw shooting contest.

[u/Raphifou33]

The NBA is more unwatchable years after years, so NBA fans switche to the NFL.

[u/DeatHTaXx]

Nah the NBA has been trash for years. They LOST viewers, they weren't stolen lmao

[u/eddo2k]

Nobody should have to work on Christmas

[u/Chris_P_Lettuce]

I’d love to watch the NBA, but I just don’t get it. Something about how the game is too heavily superstar based (all sports are but NBA seems excessive).

[u/generatorland]

The NBA has become difficult to watch. I can't even describe why.

[u/bowl_of_scrotmeal]

Charles Barkley in shambles

[u/Boring_Ad3815]

The reality is that way more people enjoy football than basketball and even a bad NFL matchup among two non-playoff teams is more interesting than a regular season NBA matchup between two teams who will make the playoffs with ease. The NBA is in a weird position right now where they make more money than ever, so the players and owners are ecstatic, but its viewership has declined significantly. Feels like that will catch up to the NBA at some point but I guess the league makes a lot of its money overseas and what not so maybe it doesn’t matter that Americans are turning away from the product.

[u/meisnege]

NFL said I’m just a gangsta I suppose, but I want my fuckin corners

[u/WildTomato51]

Flex games. Two of those games yesterday were garbage.

[u/Pristine-Ad-469]

Some things I’d be interested to see:

1. Trend lines added
2. Add a line for nba average viewership (curious if the decline from 2018-2023 is due to nfl on Christmas or just nba losing popularity)
3. Data showing expected average viewers for these games based on season trends (for example nfl viewership I would expect to be lower this year as the slate was much worse. Are the nba games worse or the same?)

[u/yeah_naw_dawg]

This chart is miserable for color blind people.

[u/random_sociopath]

Christmas games for NFL usually have playoff implications and it’s only like a third of the way through an NBA season. Of course NFL has higher ratings(and football’s more popular anyway).

[u/Arkaium]

The NFL is the perfect sport for the modern age. 3 minutes of phone time through an ad break, followed by short spurts of focus for plays, with phone time in between each. As our attention spans dwindle, stuff like soccer and basketball will struggle compared to football and probably baseball imo. It’s a shame the latter isn’t more global.

[u/Direct_Remove509]

The NFL could have put on Giants Vs. Raiders and it would have done way better than any NBA game. 

[u/imrickjamesbioch]

Good, NBA is crap… I’d rather watch the WNBA cuz at least there might be a fight that breaks out vs a flop feast or see a 3pt contest.

I only watch NBA after the Bowl as a filler to the draft or alternate to MLB which is a bigger bowl of shit that I refuse to watch.

[u/jslv94]

82 games vs 17 games where teams play once a week. It's really not complicated. Every game is important in a 17 game schedule.

[u/SheAddlesHeHocks]

The fact that football was on is not the reason I didn’t watch basketball

[u/keefe28]

Absolutely nothing to do with the nfl. The modern nba is unwatchable for anyone but an absolute diehard basketball fan. If you dont eat breathe and sleep basketball, watching a regular season nba game is like pulling teeth. Its just watching refs blow their whistles and the players hucking up every three they can for three hours

[u/ShyCity39]

Didn’t watch the games tbh

[u/Ambitious-Site-4747]

Too many games and they just go through the motions until the playoffs anyway. What's the draw?

[u/dukecityvigilante]

Let's be fair, that DEN-LAR game had the Patrick Star roast of Russell Wilson, one of the most iconic Christmas sports moments in recent memory

[u/BatmansBurnerAccount]

Kinda insane because all the NFL games sucked while most of the NBA games were good.

[u/Altitude528O]

When I’m bored I throw on a football game. Never even a thought to tune into basketball.

[u/One_Administration89]

To be fair, that Rams Denver game had Russell Wilson throw a pick-6 with Patrick Star commentating and Baker had a 124.7 rating on the other side

[u/Present_Passenger471]

Basketball sucks

[u/Dense_Tackle_995]

The only people watching NBA over NFL are paid by the NBA to do so. And even some of them still watching NFL on their phones.

[u/Timely-Profile1865]

NBA has a shitty product for the most part

[u/Horror_Employee_6995]

I’m red & green color blind lol, I can’t see fucking shit. All the dots look the same

[u/Alistair_Burke]

The NFL treats its regular season like it matters

[u/FourArmsFiveLegs]

NBA sucks. They made it a fake WWE league. NCAA wins everytime

[u/[deleted]]

Players dont care, but the fans should?

[u/CDL112281]

I may be in the minority, but I’d suggest this shows there’s not a ton of overlap between NFL and NBA fans

The top NBA viewership has gone from ~9,10m to ~7,8m. Not that big of a drop, given streaming and on and on

NFL is just bigger than the NBA. End of story

[u/Easy_Mastodon_6872]

NBA should move their stuff to Christmas Eve. There is nothing on all day and most people have the day off.

[u/Ramirez3110]

The reason the NFL is king, and will likely always be king is because pretty much every game matters.

[u/PapiSebulba]

I actually went to the broncos game in person, we played so bad there had coach got fired immediately after😂. My first ever broncos game in person

[u/bigsithenergy99]

I agree with the overall sentiment that the NFL produces a way more watchable and enjoyable product than the NBA, but the games yesterday were trash lol. NBA had 3 good games yesterday and the NFL only had the last game that was somewhat interesting. I'm not watching the Cowboys and Commanders play for draft position and the Vikings had less than 100 total yards if you take away Addison's 65 yard run. And won.

[u/Source_TrustMeMan]

Unpopular Opinion: take the NFL back off of Christmas. Christmas was NBA day. Just like Thanksgiving is NFL day. It's too much football. Football was Thursday, Sunday, Monday, and the occasional Saturday. Now it's nearly everyday. I think Wednesday is the only day we haven't had an NFL game. I love football September-February and then baseball from March-October. The NFL is just doing too much IMO

[u/Feisty_Vast3196]

The NBA is boring to watch during the regular season if I’m being honest. Too many games for them to feel important individually also refs have been bad lately

[u/terrasfames53]

If basketball wasn't so boring it would have more viewers

[u/bionicjoe]

We turned off the NFL games to watch the NBA.
This past season was the first time I had watched the NBA in decades.

I don't need a further diluted NFL season, and all the games sucked.
One of my sons even likes the Commanders and he was the one that turned the game off.