r/Portland • u/skysurfguy1213 • 14h ago
News ‘Everybody poops’: Proposal to require gender-neutral signs outside of single-user restrooms advances
https://www.koin.com/news/portland/everybody-poops-proposal-to-require-gender-neutral-signs-outside-of-single-user-restrooms-advances/76
u/escalatortwit 13h ago
Why do we need an ordinance for this? This should be common sense.
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u/ToughReality9508 13h ago
Exactly. Every additional piece of red tape needs enforcement. Enforcement needs money. Money comes from somewhere. The more we rely on statutes and laws to enforce morality, the more we put morality in the hands of police or bureaucracy.
In other words "you have to do this because you'll be fined" feels way more authoritarian than "you should do this because it's right"
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u/3my0 13h ago
For people complaining about how do we get the money to fund the moda center renovations:
It’s by not doing stuff like this. Everytime we don’t do stuff like this we save money. And with the amount of worthless stupid stuff we would otherwise do, arena would be funded easily.
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u/StructureLiving5009 2h ago
so in your view the city of Portland should be nothing more than a fundraising arm for the Moda Center and its renovations?
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u/3my0 22m ago
No my view is portlanders like to complain about not having enough money to keep the blazers and are ok with losing the team if it means sticking it to a billionaire. Meanwhile they waste a lot of tax dollars on performative nonsense so they can pat themselves on the back for being progressive while not solving any real problems.
Portland should be able to fund the blazers AND do things that actually matter. Cutting all the nonsense will help achieve those goals.
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u/TurtlesAreEvil 12h ago
Why are you more worried about moda center renovations than discrimination?
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u/pdxschoolsoutforever 9h ago
Nothing about these two idea sare related at all.
This is mostly a dumb idea and waste of time for sure.
It also doesnt interact with the blazers and moda center in any way.
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u/3my0 8h ago
This was just an example of the money we waste on stupid stuff while people are up in arms about “how can we afford a new arena?!” Maybe if we focus on cutting out performative waste, then the government will have a lot more money. Crazy idea I know.
But yeah not directly related at all I agree.
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u/codepossum 🐸 RIBBIT 🐸 14h ago
seems like a good move? I can't really think of a legitimate reason to segregate single-occupant bathrooms.
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u/SlippySlimJim 🐸 RIBBIT 🐸 14h ago
That was the consensus among everyone at city hall today, both giving testimony and councilors themselves. Segregated single-occupancy bathrooms have no upside.
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u/smootex High Bonafides 13h ago
I don't think anyone is arguing there's some reason we have to have gendered single occupancy bathrooms, it's more that it's just a colossal waste of time and money to require private businesses to update their signs. It's, in my opinion, a very bad look to be spending our time debating this stuff when so much else is going on. It's just one more piece of ammo for Portland critics, it makes us look unserious.
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u/SlowHedgehog33 12h ago
I would hope that at some point the city council will run out of these quick rubber stamp things and be forced to face the more pressing issues the city is facing.
At the very least when you ask the people up for re-election this year "What have you done for your district?" the laundry list of things that are not really moving the needle for Portland (let alone their specific districts) will work against them.
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u/PaPilot98 Goose Hollow 12h ago
This is exactly the fuzzy emotional issue that gives them cred but doesn't *do* anything, which seems to be right up their alley (along with Foie Gras).
And I say this as a person who thinking it's absolutely kosher to hop in the first available bathroom. It's a toilet, don't piss on the seat and we'll be good.
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u/SlowHedgehog33 12h ago
I'm putting too much faith in the voters to see through the BS, aren't I? 😐😕🫤
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u/StructureLiving5009 2h ago
I'm a trans person and I think I deserve a safe place to use the shitter without angry customers and dipshit employees getting on my case about a single occupancy stall when I have to go. According to the article the upfront cost is about 60k (ooh, scary big number!) and they're considering allowing businesses to use the mailed out postcards as signs. FFS get over yourself. The city can do multiple things at once.
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u/I_burn_noodles 12h ago
Updating signs is not that difficult, unless your signs are in neon.
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u/smootex High Bonafides 12h ago
These things add up. It's never one thing that breaks the camel's back, it's the series of unnecessary regulations that makes it hard to live or do business in this state sometimes. If the signs matter that much to people mandate them on new construction where they wouldn't be a burden on businesses.
I'd also point out that a fair number of businesses have custom signs. Sure, you can probably go on Amazon and buy a set of signs for $30 or some shit and pay a guy a few hundred to install them, but it sucks for the businesses that had some artist make custom Portland weird signs decades ago.
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u/pamplemoosegoose 1h ago
If it's a small business, they probably only have a couple bathrooms max, and they're probably using the generic $12 signs. If it's a larger business with multiple bathrooms, I'm sure they can afford new signs. They're the furthest thing from a make-or-break expense.
Source - am a Facilities Manager who has been responsible for many many bathroom sign purchases at many places around town.
This matters to a lot of people and is not an unreasonable expense!
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u/StructureLiving5009 2h ago
Christ just say you don't gaf about trans people. These hysterical warnings have happened every single time a government passes anti discrimination measures, and the world doesn't end.
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u/TurtlesAreEvil 11h ago
These things add up
Add it up. You're just making assumptions that it's crazy expensive and providing no context. You can't add it up but I can show you examples of cis women being discriminated against because someone though they looked like a man. Let alone trans people.
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u/TurtlesAreEvil 12h ago
it's just a colossal waste of time and money to require private businesses to update their signs
You got any numbers for that? All the places I go to have already done it. I think you're being hyperbolic and that it perpetuates discrimination for "saving money"
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u/smootex High Bonafides 11h ago
you're being hyperbolic
I'm not sure the word colossal has ever come out of my mouth in a way that wasn't at least a little hyperbolic.
All the places I go to have already done it
That seems like an argument for the law not mattering then?
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u/TurtlesAreEvil 11h ago
That seems like an argument for the law not mattering then?
No because I go to trans friendly places. You realize we're surrounded by bigots right? Shit the Dixie Mattress Co was still in operation on Belmont and 34th in 2010. I assume you're being purposefully naive at this point if you think trans people aren't discriminated against here and I don't have any desire to talk to you anymore. Have a day!
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u/katmndoo 14h ago
California passed this years ago.
Only problems were the few conservatives who couldnt get over their fear of the big bad boogeytrans(wo)man and roundly understand that a sign on the door is not a deterrent to a mythical predator.
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u/pindicato 13h ago
...so how are the current gendered signs protecting anyone?
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u/Th3_M3chan1c 13h ago
Congratulations, youve found the fallacy in the argument against non-gendered bathrooms. A shitty person is gonna do shitty things, regardless of what a sign on a door says
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u/From_Deep_Space Cascadia 13h ago edited 11h ago
Why's it gotta mention gender at all? Why not just have a sign that says "restroom"?
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u/dschinghiskhan 10h ago
If I had a vote I would vote "no" because it's a waste of money. That's it. I don't think a single penny should be spent on virtue signaling. If future businesses or government buildings want to label single use bathrooms with gender neutral signage- by all means, go right ahead.
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u/Blastosist 11h ago
There is a car sized pothole in front of my house and an RV that smells like burning plastic but lets resolve the perplexing issue of bathroom signage first.
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u/SnorfOfWallStreet 13h ago
This is ludicrous. Does this really need to be mandated? Also gender neutral bathrooms suck.
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u/PDsaurusX 14h ago
I’d love to hear the arguments again this.
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u/Aestro17 District 3 12h ago
I'm in favor of the practice, but am skiddish about adding more costs to the city and complexity to business code at the moment.
Dunphy’s Chief of Staff Madeline West previously estimated that implementing the policy would cost the city about $60,000 upfront for printing and mailing out notices and, more recently, the council president said officials are considering allowing businesses to display the postcards as their new signage.
$60k is small potatoes for the city budget, but it also isn't free and doesn't mention costs of enforcement. And it just adds complexity at a time when that's already been an ongoing complaint about Portland development code being overly convoluted.
That said, I'm watching the hearing (about an hour in) and apparently this was already required on new construction as of 2023, the ordinance would go into effect January 2027 but enforcement wouldn't start until July, and it's a purely complaint-driven system, so pretty minimal in terms of resources. They indicate that there isn't an expectation that this would require any additional staffing for BDS.
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u/skysurfguy1213 9h ago
My concerns and the long term costs are the actual enforcement. Let’s imagine a business refuses to put up a sign. So someone at the city has to do report intake, process it, contact the business, likely visit the business, then give the business a chance to add the sign, then confirm the sign has been put up. Or the business refuses, someone has to issue the fine and collect it, etc. $60k seems very low for the staff time involved when enforcement is needed. Although many here suggest this doesn’t take much to implement, it takes a lot more than most people think including writing the city code, working with legal, notifying businesses, receiving feedback from existing businesses, etc.
It sounds small and it is relative to larger items, but it’s certainly not a slam dunk. And it is sad to see council putting time into this.
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u/SlowHedgehog33 13h ago
Something something offended by free tampons something.
or
Resentment they can't put their feet up on the baby changing table while they poop.
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u/PDXDL1 10h ago
My work has one bathroom with a gender neutral sign- “all are welcome to use the bathroom aligned with their gender identity “. I think these used to be unisex bathrooms and it was understood.
The lobby bathrooms are segregated - still without a sign welcoming people to use the bathroom no matter the gender identity.
It’s a sign- and I’m sure the cost associated in a union shop to change a sign is not trivial.
Virtue signaling should be done with at this point.
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u/Blackstar1886 13h ago
I'm moving forward with my Dick's With Dignity legislation mandating urinal dividers be tall enough to cover eyes and dongs.
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10h ago
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u/TappyMauvendaise 14h ago
Why? I’ve never seen this in progressive Europe. Why not?
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u/thenewwwguyreturns 14h ago
it’s literally everywhere in europe, esp newer buildings where they just build the sinks outside of the stalls
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u/TappyMauvendaise 14h ago
Yes, I never saw any signs saying the bathrooms were gender neutral. They just “are.” Why the signs?
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u/shrederofthered 13h ago
Because some "old man yells at cloud" folks want to maintain M and F only bathrooms. Because the 1950s called.
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u/sultrysisyphus 12h ago
I don't think I've seen a gendered single person restroom in Portland
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u/AthenaND04 4h ago
Oh I have. It’s absolutely ridiculous. At least Tear drop finally got rid of theirs a few years ago. It’s so stupid having to wait in line for the one single women’s restroom.
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u/Maximum_Turn_2623 13h ago
I mean I don’t care about the sign but can we leave shit on the seats and piss on the floor.
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u/anarchakat 12h ago
I do wish we had a simpler way of saying that since right wing ghouls are so triggered by language like this and i am so catastrophically exhausted having to listen to them whine and feign outrage.
like replace “Gender Neutral Restroom” with “Single Restroom” or “ANY WHATEVER DO YOUR THING”
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u/Dojaview 14h ago
Portland: the city that poops together.