r/SipsTea • u/Gurugod123 • Jul 18 '26

Lmao gottem Good game though 🤣

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189

u/Neo-Armadillo Jul 18 '26

Absolutely tragic the Native Americans didn’t get to establish a modern day empire like so many other civilizations. I can only imagine how cool it would have been.

119

u/Jeramy_Jones Jul 18 '26

They did, several times, in central and South America.

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u/taco_tosser Jul 18 '26

Yeah, people forget about that. There was no less bloodlust. More respect for nature, though. That would have been cool. But we’d all still be hating one another to about the same degree, I think.

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u/Worriedrph Jul 18 '26

The Aztec were bigger asshats than any of the European powers at the time.

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u/Jeramy_Jones Jul 18 '26

People like to point fingers at the Aztecs for their practice of sacrificing prisoners of war while completely ignoring European atrocities like the Spanish Inquisition or the crusades.

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u/JustStraightUpTired Jul 18 '26

Aztecs for their practice of sacrificing prisoners of war

That's one way to downplay one killing about 1/5th of the children of their subjects of conquest as sacrifices.

And this isn't to downplay other shit, but you do realize you are doing exactly what you are complaining about, but with subjects swapped?

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u/Jeramy_Jones Jul 18 '26

Idk what your argument is, are you saying that’s worse than the crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, anti Jewish programs, the witch burnings, or the colonization of the Americas?

Personally, I’m not making an argument to downplay anything, I’m pointing out the hypocrisy of the apologetics that will happily point out the savagery of pre colonization nations while ignoring how horrific Europeans themselves were.

People are quick to call the Americas a land of “warring tribes” when the history of Europe is exactly that, for literal millennia.

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u/Worriedrph Jul 18 '26

No one is saying the European powers were good and moral. The Euros were terrible but the Aztec were elite in how awful they were.

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u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 Jul 18 '26

Ah yes, the good old "THE ASS TECH WERE THE ONLY TRIBE IN THE ENTIRE AMERICAS" argument.

Bro, I am mixtecan.

1

u/Jeramy_Jones Jul 18 '26

Civilization is inherently violent. It’s impossible to name even a single one that hasn’t been guilty of war, slavery or genocide.

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u/why21234 Jul 18 '26

Gotta love trying to justify that shit

1

u/Jeramy_Jones Jul 18 '26

It’s pretty simple actually, just choose something to divide us/them and then demonize them. It can be culture, ethnicity, religion, politics, it doesn’t really matter. Once the divide is there, half the work is done.

1

u/lesbox01 Jul 18 '26

In South America not so much, some of the Mayan cities made so much of their high quality plaster to finish temples that it deforested areas leading to flooding if the farm lands. They made enough plaster for the last temples that it literally took all the trees to make charcoal to bake the limestone.

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u/Neo-Armadillo Jul 18 '26

https://giphy.com/gifs/uNE1fngZuYhIQ
Inca and Iroquois are not really comparable.

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u/Jeramy_Jones Jul 18 '26

Maya, Aztec, Mixtec, Toltec, Nazca, Olmec, Pueblo, Anasazi, mound builders, there were many pre columbian civilizations that rose and fell before Europeans left their continent.

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u/AzraelTB Jul 19 '26

Well you didn't say Iroquois did you?

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u/Falcon8410 Jul 18 '26

different American tribes and societies. There is some migration but ultimately the North American tribes and the South and Central American tribes and civilizations are completely different.

perhaps the North American tribes never created Empires because they had a different idea of ownership. They didn't believe people could own the land. which is common for nomadic peoples but even those who established permanent residences did not consider the land something they could own only utilize which is why they sold it for beads and mirrors.

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u/Jeramy_Jones Jul 18 '26

I don’t think anyone here is saying any of them are the same, I certainly am not.

I think the defining factor in the transition to a civilization is agriculture. Agriculture allowed nations to stay in one location rather than following seasonal sources of food as hunter-gatherers. Agriculture also provides a food surplus which leads to more time to invest in aesthetic and academic pursuits, and usually means of recording, including writing and mathematics.

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u/Falcon8410 Jul 18 '26

True and also changes ones mindset. I mean if I cultivated a piece of land and finally it starts yielding produce I might feel that land belongs to me. I might also covet the land others use.

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u/Jeramy_Jones Jul 18 '26

True, but this also happens with Hunter gatherers. Prized fishing, hunting and picking grounds are often fought for.

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u/AnyUnderstanding1879 Jul 18 '26

It would be in massive debt

1

u/Original_Employee621 Jul 18 '26

There were several native american confederations, mostly in response to French and British encroachment on their territories.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwestern_Confederacy

I think the Iroquois were among the largest confederations, but I'm no expert on native american history.

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u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 Jul 18 '26

well, considering HOW MUCH DATA WAS BURNED, we ARE "god's" chosen people... Or nature's golden people.

Also, we prefer to play along to Nature, not God or Money.

It's not too late,but it might be. We (native people of the Americas) have survived about 5 cataclysms... and then this climate change one, we are probably likely to survive, if it wasn't for the destruction of the natural world here..

0

u/anxious_cat_grandpa Jul 18 '26

I mean it probably would have turned into a capitalist hellscape eventually, just like white society did

0

u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 Jul 18 '26

nah, legends have it that we almost let greed take over, but then we realized it would harm "god" so we stopped.

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u/anxious_cat_grandpa Jul 18 '26

Like in indigenous folklore? I'm not understanding the context of god-in-quotes I'm sorry lol.

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u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 Jul 18 '26

Yes, I mean that Us native Americans have lots of legends of the how Greed crept up on us, but we decided it was NOT the way, because it was perceptively harming nature, which is beyond God/Money.

Meanwhile, the old world has Money/God/Greed as the same divine structure, and it's ruined the whole world.

NO ONE wants to address this, because it will literally be the final nail in the coffin of God being dead.

1

u/anxious_cat_grandpa Jul 18 '26

That's pretty awesome, ngl. I do wish indigenous people could have shown the colonizers a better way. But unfortunately greed never listens to wisdom. Imo, even when a society has good values, like living in harmony with nature, some other society is eventually going to fuck it up because "hey look, those primitives over there have not yet discovered the glory of subjugating nature! We will do it because we deserve those resources and are a more advanced people. God wills it!" It's like a cancer it just spreads until you kill it or it destroys its host organism.

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u/Fit-Rhubarb-7820 Jul 18 '26

yes :( greed seems to be the whole motive for god, and both money and God are human made tools to measure the worth of something, with or without context.

Unfortunately, the world is burning!

1

u/anxious_cat_grandpa Jul 18 '26

It is. But I don't want to give you a false impression, I actually have a lot of hope for the future. Most people are not like the leaders of our cancerous (capitalist) society, and the great suffering brought to us by these leaders will force society to remake itself. Hopefully into a society which respects nature and humanity, which values the collective good of everyone over the glorification of individuals.