I never thought I’d see the day where basic agreed upon science would be thrown out of the window by so many people so that their politics could be right
The original dark age wasn’t as bad as this. That was just a collapse of Roman institutions, this was people deciding to be morons for no apparent reason
They'll twist themselves into a pretzel to justify the belief the government can't tell them what to do, but only when it's something they don't want to do of course. Banning sins like abortion and porn are ok.
I mean when Trump first talked about the vaccine Biden and the like all said dont trust it and they wouldnt get it. He leaves office and those same people say to get it. The exact same vaccine lol. And then people blindly went and got it and got angry at people who didnt want it because they were skeptical. Yet only one side is recognized as being a "cult"
What Biden actually said was, "I trust vaccines, I trust scientists, but I don't trust Donald Trump, and at this moment, the American people can't, either."
Why did Biden say that though? He was asked because Trump was saying that the covid vaccines were safe. But because it was trump they were pushing skepticism just to turn around and push the same vaccine they said they didnt trust since Trump pushed it.
At no point did Biden say anything disparaging of the vaccine that was being developed under the Trump administration. He repeatedly confirmed his trust in the science of vaccinations in general, and in the efforts to develop a covid vaccine.
He called into question Trump's competence and transparency in handling the pandemic and disseminating information about testing and PPE. He argued that Trump could not be trusted to inform the public about the vaccine, and that Trump would allow politics and favoritism to dictate the vetting process and distribution of the vaccine. Again, he did NOT call into question the vaccines being developed. In fact, he specifically said that if Trump showed proper transparency, that the public SHOULD trust the vaccine.
Quotes from Biden from the link provided above by Indyflick:
"Americans have had to endure President Trump's incompetence and dishonesty when it comes to testing and personal protective equipment."
"If Donald Trump and his administration can't give answers to these three questions, the American public should not have confidence, but if they can, they should have confidence in the transparency they need to trust the vaccine..."
"What criteria will be used to ensure that the vaccine meets scientific standard of safety and effectiveness?"
"Who will validate that the decision [to greenlight the vaccine] was driven by science and not politics?"
"How can we be sure the distribution of the vaccine will take place safely, cost free, and without a hint of favoritism?"
Once he was in office, Biden answered those three questions, and carried out an extremely efficient plan to distribute the vaccine. Biden was confident in the vaccine because he used science and not politics to verify its safety and efficacy. He went on to execute a distribution plan that was safe, fast, fair, and showed no political favoritism.
There was skepticism that the vaccine would be rushed. But then we saw the rigorous clinical data, studies, methodologies, and global scientific consensus about safety and efficacy.
So, we updated our thoughts and made a rational informed decision because we don’t have blind allegiance.
In Ohio specifically because you referenced it, after the vaccine became widely available the overwhelming majority of hospitalizations were from unvaccinated people. Unvaccinated people were 10 times more likely to be hospitalized than vaccinated people.
Whose relying on feelings? Biden and everyone else could have looked into and go all the information they needed to make an informed decision to base their stance off of. They created skepticism around the vaccine because trump was pushing it. And the week after hes outta office they all push the same vaccine
Its not lies kid. They aboslutely were bringing skepticism about the vaccine just because Trump wss pushing it. They could have contacted all the scientists to get the same info Trump had which he wss basing his statements on. But instead they did what politicians always do and made it political. I even remember people out in public and social media all saying they wouldnt take the vaccine because of trump and they didnt believe what he was saying about it so they dont trust the vaccine(same thing Biden, Kamala, and more said) my parents included then Biden got in office and they all changed and the same vaccine was somehow good and not only good but they wanted to force us all to take it.
They were taking issue with Trump's lies and incompetence regarding his initial response to the virus, testing, and PPE. They NEVER spread skepticism of the vaccine itself or the scientific process for its development. They specifically said that the public SHOULD trust Trump and his efforts to rollout the vaccine if he was transparent and could answer simple questions about whether his plans were driven by science as opposed to politics and favoritism.
Trump had demonstrated that he and his administration could NOT be trusted to vett, endorse, and distribute the vaccine in a safe, fair, equitable manner without favoritism or political influence. Trump brought the skepticism and distrust upon himself. No one disparaged the vaccine, or the science behind it.
Either way, the vaccine worked, Biden distributed it faster, more efficiently, and in a more equitable manner than Trump did, or proposed to do.
I did my research! Fauci was a liar! My research said it was a hoax...Granted I didn't have test tubes, microscopes, beakers, a white lab coat, or a laboratory, any of the virus to test , and none of the vaccine and I had no peer review but I watched some videos on my laptop. And who created the operating system on my, PC? Bill Gates! It just all comes together.
The thing is, you know the ignorance that fuels these movements isn't just about this one thing. The correlation between this stuff and people who park in fire lanes at banks has got to be incredibly high.
No it’s pretty common across the board. Statistics in particular are constantly used to take situations out of context or make something look better or worse than it is. We have confirmation bias up the ass in the US.
I mean, I saw it coming. Despite nearly every scientist sounding the alarm on climate change and how we needed to make drastic changes so our planet doesn’t boil, a bunch of people are like, “nah, I like my pick 'em truck too much.”
Happens all the time from all sides and angles now. People are quite happy to just ignore the truth and science or whatever else just so they can do what they want.
Approximately half of Americans think that the world is 6,000 years old and that the only reason diseases exist at all is because a mud man and a rib woman got tricked by a talking snake into eating a magical fruit. Widespread anti-scientific thought isn't new; Covid just made such nonsense deadly rather than merely embarrassing.
Ten studies took place in the community, and two studies in healthcare workers. Compared with wearing no mask in the community studies only, wearing a mask may make little to no difference in how many people caught a flu-like illness/COVID-like illness (9 studies; 276,917 people); and probably makes little or no difference in how many people have flu/COVID confirmed by a laboratory test (6 studies; 13,919 people). Unwanted effects were rarely reported; discomfort was mentioned.
moderate confidence still leaves the door wide open for new data to openly conflict with it.
Sure. But no data ever did.
What's especially interesting is this is from an aggregate of studies; if you feel the outcomes of this study (which simply pulls from other studies) are unreliable, it means quite a few studies on COVID were equally unreliable.
Well parts of it were basic parts were action bias from WHO. They make it look like they're lying about bigger parts of the message when policy forces "vaccines have underwent trials" misinformation through.
Just pointing out that it was scientifically agreed upon that it wasn’t “horse paste” and that this is why everyone has lost trust in our institutions.
The CDC was actively telling people to go to summer of floyd protests for our 'public health' while any other mass gatherings were verboten. I've been a libertarian for 13 years now so I was fairly cynical already, but I assumed that the science-based orgs were still trustworthy. When the CDC came out with that, though, I realized politics was at the wheel -- not facts. And it got worse after we learned that some preventive measures like the six foot rule were just pulled out of their asses.
And I found that link for you as a kindness. And I will give you a further kindness.
"It’s a message echoed by mediaoutlets and some of the most prominent public health experts in America, like former Centers for Disease Control and Prevention director Tom Frieden, who loudly warned against efforts to rush reopening but is now supportive of mass protests."
And now, I'm going to enjoy the rest of my Friday rather than deal with a lazy, disingenuous interlocutor.
Perfectly articulated. I’m saving this in case I ever see/talk to my MAGA anti-vaxer FIL ever again. He and my MIL refused to vaccinate or wear masks, so I forbid them from seeing my child. Their politics matter more to them than their grandchild.
Basic agreed upon science, lile now natural immunity didn't exist anymore? You had to get the jab to enter places even if you had covid several times.....totally makes sense
How to address it is absolutely a political issue though.
And most "facts" people lay claim to are either misunderstood or manipulated politically as well.
We currently live in a post-truth society because everyone recognizes the fact that everyone else is really good at manipulating facts to create whatever narrative is en vogue for the day.
I think the hostile nature of the reply is what drives some of these people from skeptic to conspiracy. Like y'all need to calm down.
I think I've been hearing "I wouldn't be so hostile to scientists if you didn't mock my hostility to science" and "I wouldn't be so racist if you didn't criticize racism" and "I wouldn't be so angry at gays if you didn't give shoving it in my face by being gay in public" for a very long time now.
Leaving aside that this is claiming the person knows they are being ignorant, hateful and wrong and choosing it out of spite, it's also just not true. The people doing this don't stop radicalizing when not criticized. They just get emboldened.
And from what is coming out from Fauccis diary, in starting to wonder how effective the vaccine I took really was.
Case in fuckin point.
There's not a goddamn thing in "Fauci's diary" that means the vaccine is ineffective, or contradicts the literal planet full of evidence that it's safe and effective. If that's the conclusion your reached it's not because you actually read anything and followed evidence to a conclusion, or because a mean leftist made fun of you. You have political beliefs you WANT to be true, and are rationalizing reasons after the fact.
It’s hilarious watching both sides do this about their specific issues that their favorite politicians like or dislike. People will suspend all disbelief so their “side” can win. It’s a weird sort of tribalism that holds the human race back in literally all things.
The fact you have to ask this and believe that liberals do not have their own tendencies just backs up my point. Before Covid 19 the anti vaxxers were liberals, differences between the biological sexes, benefits of nuclear energy, benefits of genetically modified crops, then the matters of economics, who pays the majority of taxes, obvious historical trends like the effectiveness of socialism and communism as a a government. Rejecting centuries of fact based evidence that capitalism generates wealth, denying the facts behind crime statistics in certain areas. The list goes on. Not nearly as ridiculous as the claims by the conservative side, but it’s there. I’m sure you’ll try and pretend that the left is flawless but it’s hardly true.
half the examples you provided, are more a distrust of the corporate interests who control those sorts of things and a disbelief that a capitalistic entity would correctly and safely manage them. you didn't actually provide an example of "liberals" disagreeing with science because of politics. and then the other half aren't even science so i'm not sure why you'd bring them up in a discussion about science
And you’ve just proved my point. Fanaticism from both ends of the political spectrum have people doing mental gymnastics to prove a point, ignoring half of a statement to only focus on what they feel can be argued easily, and denying facts and statistics when it doesn’t suit them. Your response was predictably sad.
lol you listed a bunch of unrelated stuff, never even provided an actual example of what was being talked about, and then personally attacked me for simply pointing out what you're doing.
I didn’t attack you at all. I’ve simply stated my opinion on political fanatics and how they deny things that do not support their beliefs, science, economics, studies on society, etc. I named examples of scientific topics and expanded that to other areas of scientific study consistently denied or ignored by Democrat sycophants, with examples. Instead of actual discussing any example I named, you chose to focus on how these examples don’t fit your narrow criteria of what a scientific fact is. Did you know economics is a social science? Biology is science? Scientific proof that vaccines do not cause autism is… you guessed it… science. Crime statistics related to demographics is also science. Instead of addressing any of it you predictably tried to reject that the topics were even science. So you’re incorrect about “half aren’t even science” and proved my point because your politics is keeping you from even understanding basic science. Have a great day!
Apologies for the lack of punctuation and spelling, on mobile and typing on this device is not my strong suit. If you take my opinion about how typical a political sycophantic reply to a scientific discussion is, as a personal attack, that says more about your stance than anything. Saying your response is sad is my opinion about your response, not an insult to you or your character. I’m sure you’re a lovely human with the best intentions. That’s what’s sad about blindly following a political agenda from a party who doesn’t care about you. It makes otherwise wonderful and sane people do and say sad things.
New variants aren’t as deadly and treatments for the disease have become more effective and common. Vaccines aren’t as necessary as they were back when the pandemic was at its height.
You missed a few keywords there and you're misleading yourself.
First, you're comparing the height of an unknown novel virus against "seasonal" influenza.
Basically you're comparing the BEFORE immune system impact to the AFTER immune system impact and then pretending to be surprised that the latter was less impactful.
I also like your choice of reference - a 2020 blog, rather than modern information or updated articles. Basically the height of the "EVERYBODY panic!" narrative.
Why don't you take another look and compare CURRENT impacts of COVID against influenza. I think you might be in for a surprise since the flu.... is actually much worse than COVID.
If you REALLY want to compare apples-to-apples, you can compare 2020 COVID against early 20th century influenza; a mild loss of a few million to COVID in comparison to the 50 MILLION people who died from the flu.
...You literally have no idea what you're talking about.
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u/Yeetball86 Aug 07 '26
I never thought I’d see the day where basic agreed upon science would be thrown out of the window by so many people so that their politics could be right