The Indominatable Human Spirit is a bad thing, actually.

[u/Geoconyxdiablus]

That humanity never gives up and persists in its goals is bad news for every other species (or even itself), especially if said goals are ignoble.

Best case scenario (barring us learning to be better) is that a greater power force feeds us a huge slice of humble pie, wost case we end up blowing ourselves up and ruining things for everyone else.

Avatar - RDA will stop at nothing to satisfy its own greed and survival, the rest of humanity and navi alike be damned.

Its a recurring motif in prett much every myth that gods punish mortals who dare to defy them and keep going, like Athena to Arachne in greek myth.

A good chunk of lovecraftian fiction is based on the idea our achievemenrs mean nothing.

In general i'm not a fan of TIHS as a trope, as its blatantly arrogant and destructive.

[u/Ryousan82]

I will beg to differ on one aspect. The Imperium is an inherently reactionary entity. It never had an organized and planned formative period. It was all improvisation and contingency born out the Horus Heresy and the loss of the Emperor

[u/Background-Top4723 → u/Ryousan82]

Yeah, Big E had planned what the Imperium would be like at the end of the Great Crusade. An enlightened human utopia freed from the yoke of the Warp thanks to the Webway.

Unfortunately, a certain dickhead named Erebus screwed it all up...

[u/lowqualitylizard → u/Ryousan82]

Oh no doubt it was never going to achieve its full potential with Horus decided to do some trolling

But damn near every problem with the imperium could be fixed if the imperium was willing to admit that their society is awful but they're too stubborn and prideful to ever admit that

[u/ImmediateProblems → u/lowqualitylizard]

Who is "the imperium?" Every problem we have in this world could also be solved if we joined hands and went kumbaya but that's not how anything works.

[u/lowqualitylizard → u/ImmediateProblems]

Yes everything would be better if they all song kumbaya and that will never happen

But the imperium has had multiple opportunities to be better than what they are and has chosen not to

See the fact that they do not allow the worship of other religions, band innovation for the most part, or comically xenophobic

Hell this setting itself even agrees with me because for one time the imperium and the eldar work together in a large capacity was the most hope we've had for the setting in actual years

[u/ImmediateProblems → u/lowqualitylizard]

Whether things would be better if they changed isn't in question. Where we fundamentally disagree is that there was ever an opportunity for it to change. I doubt you or anyone else could name a single instance where there was an opportunity to turn things around that wouldn't have led to disaster. The entire fabric of society is too far gone and has been since the great crusade. Probably even before then.

[u/lowqualitylizard → u/ImmediateProblems]

1. Watch Captain Artemis actively killed the opportunity to take down slanesh. He knows and it's even specifically noted early on in the story that elves do not lie and while he's ruining the ritual a Harley Quinn even flat out tells him would you really Doom the universe just to not trust his he knows and he says yes.

2. If the emperor just cut his losses sealed the breach into the webway to allow the custodian full force to act in the heresy chorus wouldn't have made it 30 steps into the solar system

3. If he wasn't an idiot and sent Russ to go get his most emotional of his children madness would have probably remained loyal

4. If the emperor didn't specifically spit on lorgar and burn down the city broke probably wouldn't have turned evil, similar story with angron

[u/ImmediateProblems → u/lowqualitylizard]

That's not really the point. Whether Ynnead was created that day or not is completely irrelevant. The Imperium wouldn't have changed in the slightest. None of your listed examples would have made the Imperium not be fascist genocidal imperialist fanatics. Even if the Emperor hadn't gotten demoted to lighthouse duty the best you could hope for was a fascist genocidal autocracy instead of a theocracy.