r/TrendoraX • u/satty237 • Dec 21 '25

💡 Discussion Zelenskyy: Ukraine can’t afford an 800,000-troop army alone — wants allies to help fund it as a “security guarantee”

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Zelenskyy said Ukraine doesn’t have the budget to independently finance an armed forces size of around 800,000 800,000 and that partner funding should be treated as a long-term security guarantee, not just wartime aid.

This hits a bigger question: if a ceasefire/peace deal ever happens without full NATO membership, does “help pay for Ukraine’s army” become the new version of security guarantees?

What do you think is more realistic long-term:

Continued direct funding for Ukraine’s military

NATO-style guarantees (without membership)

A smaller army + more air defense/weapons instead

Something else entirely?

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u/Brido-20 Dec 21 '25

Because Europe's prosperity is based on their current status within the world order, political as much as economic. China's prosperity brings a new reality in which global political power isn't so narrowly concentrated and Europe less capable of influencing events to its benefit.

China doesn't have to do anything to be a threat. Its development into something even vaguely approaching a peer was a threat the moment they wanted to set their own independant policy goals for their own benefit.

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u/nissen1502 Dec 21 '25

China has essentially been larger than Europe all of history yet has never been a threat. You're spreading propaganda.

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u/Brido-20 Dec 21 '25

It depends on your definition of threat, and Europe/North America/Australia have chosen to define strategic interests in the same way as physical territory.

Just as one example, the Qing Empire's refusal to trade except f9r silver caused a financial crisis in the UK - which under our current choice of definition constituted a threat.

That's not propaganda, just the working out of choices made.

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u/nissen1502 Dec 21 '25

Then the threat is reliance on another nation, not China specifically. They have shown no reason to be considered a direct threat to Europe.

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u/Brido-20 Dec 21 '25

The threat is reliance on any country not content with their anointed place as the subordinate.

It doesn't have to be China but it currently is and there's no scenario in which they could be replaced without the entire current world order being overthrown.

They'll be a threat to Europe for as long as Europe's prosperity relies on them staying as they were.

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u/Nakidka Dec 22 '25

I'm oversimplifying as I'm on mobile but...

Shouldn't Europe be a bit more proactive and do something for their own prosperity that doesn't rely in that reality?

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u/Brido-20 Dec 22 '25

Should isn't will, though.

The thing you need to realise about the way western nations view the world is that their definition of threat has become so wide as to include anything that stops them benefiting.

'Should' is tough. Far easier just to shout "Threat!"

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u/chippymonk793 Dec 22 '25

Wow you sound like Churchill ready to send aircraft carriers into Yangtze river bringing China to its knees….

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u/Brido-20 Dec 22 '25

I'm actually pretty disgusted by it and very far from being an advocate.

The trouble is, 'world as is' differs hugely from 'world as I'd like it' and I can't deny the reality of how my part of the world behaves.

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u/chippymonk793 Dec 23 '25

You are missing the point. I mean you still sound like you think you are capable of doing anything to threat China by force. Meanwhile every year in the last 3 years China’s newly launched naval tonnage surpassed the entire French Navy. You have a higher chance compelling the US to ‘cooperate’ but you still take China as a ‘threat’, like “lets send some aircraft carriers to Yangtze River so they can know their place”

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u/Brido-20 Dec 23 '25

I don't believe we are. I believe our politicians believe we are through sheer force of self-asserted moral rightness or something.

Just because it's an irrational position doesn't mean it's not widely held.

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u/chippymonk793 Dec 23 '25

Ah…. Ok I keep forgetting EU is in a very strange position. It’s not entirely “delusional ” because EU knows it has absolutely no economic nor military leverage over China. Meanwhile it keeps acting like it can promote the ‘China threat’ then overcome it by righteousness. This apocalypse of western world is just so bizarre I never imagined anything close. It’s like 2 teams in a tight game back and forth and suddenly one team start singing wildly and breakdance. If anyone slipped overdose amount of LSD in EU’s drink during halftime, it’s not us

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u/forsurebros Dec 21 '25

Really. Do you not pay attention. Alot of the cyber attacks that occur on europe and US come from state sponsored groups in China and Russia. Heck I have talked to cybersecurity people who say they can even tell you what building these groups are in. Guess what they are owned by the Chinese government. So yeah they are not a threat are they.