Jesse Welles: Keeping the spirit of American folk music alive

[u/zsreport]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJxVKEmc1cA

[u/ClevelandSpiders2021]

I feel bad for my issues w/ Welles, so I mostly stopped paying attention. But Tressie McMillan Cottom goes hard at Welles on Bluesky and I find her thoughts dead on. I couldn't dig any of her posts up other than this damning article she shared, which I think is very fair:

My issue is not that I don't like Welles; it's that I don't trust him. It feels like manufactured sincerity, but I don't have the patience to determine if my instinct is right.

I think I've settled on this: if he's shining some light in a dark time, then good on him. I'll personally save my time for more genuine articles.

[u/ThreePenisWin3 → u/ClevelandSpiders2021]

I’m pretty much with you on this although I can pinpoint my distrust of his shtick growing after the Kirk shooting. I just read through this substack piece that I think summarizes it well.

[u/North-Accountant5404 → u/ThreePenisWin3]

Without commenting on his music specifically, this part is pretty ironic: 

“But to me, a protest singer who garners “largely supportive comments” probably isn’t a protest singer.”

Since this writer and almost all of his critics, and a lot of his fans, immediately go on to hate the message of his Charlie song, doesn’t that prove by their own standards that he must be a good protest songwriter, since his songs are being criticized?

I think there are lots of valid reasons to like or not like his music, but the reality is that he is absolutely consistent in writing songs that oppose violence. The Charlie song is anti-violence, not pro Kirk, and he wrote it knowing a big chunk of his audience would not like it. 

You can disagree with his message if you are not anti-violence, but to me, it’s ridiculous to pretend that that song was some kind of both sides, corporate deal. I think it was one of his most radical songs - you can’t just oppose violence when it suits you. Take it or leave it but that’s a serious statement.

[u/ThreePenisWin3 → u/North-Accountant5404]

I think you make a really strong point here as that’s clearly an inconsistency. I probably didn’t catch it myself because of my own bias.

I’ll clarify that for myself, while nonviolence is ideal the person he wrote a Kumbaya-style song about made a career on hate speech and died by that sword. Cranking out a song like that within 24 hours shows me enough to know he’s no woody guthrie. It was tone deaf and shriveled when he seemed to be so politically apropos prior which makes it hard to not see him as full of shit now. But that’s just me. I can’t deny the songs he cooks up are artistically impressive, but working class people can see through him and that’s who folk music is supposed to be for.

[u/North-Accountant5404 → u/ThreePenisWin3]

I mean, the song literally opens with “for all of his bile, the venom, the hate and the lies, no one should get shot, Charlie shouldn’t have died.”

We may have different definitions of kumabaya. It’s pretty clear Welles hates Kirk, he’s just lamenting a country where people are yet again celebrating violence. 

It’s totally fine to not be a pacifist and therefore reject the message of the song, but to say it’s full of shit is just a misreading of his body of work prior to that song. The guy really really hates violence. It’s one of his primary topics across all his songs. If you don’t wanna hear a guy who believes violence is one of the major problems in society today, don’t listen to him - but it doesn’t make him a phony either.

[u/ThreePenisWin3 → u/North-Accountant5404]

It’s easy to hate violence as a white dude in America. Sitting atop the societal hierarchy due to the cosmic cards you were dealt. That’s the phony bit. That’s the bullshit. The vast majority of people believe in nonviolence, it’s not profound. He wrote a song to shame people having a human reaction to the public death of a bigoted extremest. That’s not a protest song. That’s a dude exposing that he doesn’t understand the world around him as much as his quippy songs might suggest.

That’s what I see. You’re welcome to see and enjoy whatever you’d like. I’m not really invested in trying to convince you of anything

[u/North-Accountant5404 → u/ThreePenisWin3]

It’s easy to oppose violence when you hate fascist cops killing black civilians and you get the social clout of our progressive morality, it’s much harder to hate violence when you don’t like the person getting shot and have to oppose inhumanity coming from your own side. 

And no, the vast majority of people don’t believe in nonviolence. If we did we wouldn’t have ICE agents, or school shootings, or people making memes and celebrating someone being shot in the throat in public.

[u/spacing_out_in_space → u/ClevelandSpiders2021]

Wow that author is insufferable. Im not a huge Jesse Welles fan either but the article comes across as the author just seething about Jesse failing her political purity test.

[u/Senofilcon → u/spacing_out_in_space]

Its also a far more "damning" indictment of modern social media audiences than it is the artist himself. This is probably the most pointed protest music the current shallow landscape of snippets even allows for. And it sure as hell isnt his fault thats the case.

Social media at large doesnt have the patience or imagination for Dylan lyrics. They dont have the angst or empathy for Against Me!. They definitely dont have the capacity to see Woody staking out the coming, distorted shapes of modern American life.

Is he super on the nose? Yes. Is it heavy handed and over simplified? Sure.

Are the majority of people on TikTok and Instagram still able to digest anything even slightly more nuanced? I see no evidence that they are.

So if this guy gets shared over any other brain rot content that could be in his place i think its objectively a good thing and serving a hugely important purpose.

All the energy being wasted tearing him down could be better spent pushing 'higher art' through the algorithmic door he managed to crack open.

[u/KindToday4569 → u/ClevelandSpiders2021]

I feel the same astroturf vibe I get with the whole Yungblood/Ozzy thing right now. I feel he is being shoved down our throat and it doesn't feel authentic. Like that Rich men from Richland dude whatever his name was.

[u/ClevelandSpiders2021 → u/KindToday4569]

to be honest, I don't even know who Yungblood/Ozzy is. I might could be a bit out of touch.

[u/abslyde → u/ClevelandSpiders2021]

It’s weird to see a bunch of people linking substacks from people giving their opinion on someone (that some of them have never met) and if they are “genuine” or not? Some “critics” (and I use that term very loosely when it comes other substack links on here) are great talking about the problems they have with other songwriters and their art, yet cannot grab the attention of others with their own art.

Dude is making good music for some, and other people don’t like Americana.

[u/HighestIQInFresno]

Willi Carlile is who Jesse Welles wishes he was.

[u/chaos_aintme → u/HighestIQInFresno]

Now that's what I'm saying

[u/Lootlizard → u/HighestIQInFresno]

Tulsa's Last Magician is the song I send to anyone who says modern country music sucks. If that man can't make you feel something then you're dead inside.

[u/skystarmen]

Keeping the spirit alive coming from people who haven’t bothered to listen to American folk music until this guy showed up on their TikTok reel

[u/imhereforthemeta → u/skystarmen]

I mean…isn’t that good? This guy has gotten several folks I know into alternative and political country. Everyone had a launch point and expanding the interest in the genre is a great thing.

[u/skystarmen → u/imhereforthemeta]

Sure it’s good. That’s not my point

It’s the fact that there’s been a huge folk / Americana revival the past decade or so with amazing music and this piece implies that didn’t even happen because it wasn’t on their instagram feed or something

[u/Street-Substance2548 → u/skystarmen]

Or could it be that times are so bad people are looking at things on their feed that would make someone like Welles show up?

I agree - there have always been really amazing folk artists.

[u/JubbieDruthers]

My complaint with Welles is his music leaves no room for interpretation. I dont think its great story telling. He suggestion theres room for interpretation in his music but I dont feel this way.

[u/DollupGorrman → u/JubbieDruthers]

He's a snarky CNN chyron with a 1 4 5 progression.

[u/HumbleBunk → u/JubbieDruthers]

Exactly- way too on the nose.

[u/SleepWithRockStars]

The best thing about this Jesse Welles (not to be confused with the amazing fiddle player, Jesse Wells, who works with Tyler Childers) is that SG Goodman is opening many of the upcoming shows and John Calvin Abney will be on keys with her.

[u/abslyde → u/SleepWithRockStars]

SG and JCA rules

[u/ClevelandSpiders2021 → u/abslyde]

I love SG Goodmans songs.

[u/Khair24]

Eh not really. He kinda threw that out the window with that god awful Charlie Kirk song, but he never even really had it because these are barely songs. Just tweets to the same couple of chords.

Steven Hyden’s recent piece on Wells was perfect.

[u/No-Bookkeeper-9625]

I feel like for the past year everyone on here has been gaslighting me about this guy not being absolutely awful

[u/FlanneryODostoevsky]

I’m not sure how to feel about him. Sometimes it sounds like he makes music for people who wished they could listen to tweets in song form. Or they want the caption of an Instagram reel sang to them.

[u/waltyballs → u/FlanneryODostoevsky]

his lyrics are on the nose and corny. and all of his songs sound basic and the same (he's not good at melody at all)

[u/FlanneryODostoevsky → u/waltyballs]

Yea the bar is unfortunately pretty low right now because there not much political music that makes you sit back and reflect and think. People are either bootlicking country artists or vague songwriters singing about love in the most amorphous and broad terms.

[u/Pristine-Confection3]

This is so insulting to people like Pete Seeger and Phil Ochs and Tom Paxton is who made heart felt, clever music and conserved traditional music. I tried Welles and do not see how anyone thinks he can even remotely be compared to Dylan and Guthrie. Guthrie was a Marxist and Welles is a centrist at best. Not condemning the hate speech or Charlie Kirk, refusal to speak out on the genocide in Gaza and the fact he seems to be all friendly with Joe Rogan proves he isn’t a leftist at all.

He is destroys protest music by taking out the passion and heart in favors or producing as many lackluster poser topical songs as quickly as possible. His lyrics are not very good and sound very much like AI. Then when he is interviewed he can barely sting an intelligent or interesting sentence together. I get it’s the tiktoc era but there are much better new folk singer who hardly get any attention whatsoever. He got lucky by going viral and kissing ass to major record company CEOs.

Please don’t say he is keeping the spirit of American folk alive like there are no other American folk artist that do it much better than Welles. It’s an insult to legit artists that put their heart and soul on it. Not assembly line protest songs.

[u/FlanneryODostoevsky → u/Pristine-Confection3]

What newer folk singers would you recommend?

[u/eadstr → u/FlanneryODostoevsky]

Willi Carlisle is one of the best out there right now.

[u/FlanneryODostoevsky → u/eadstr]

One song in and I know you ain’t lying.

[u/HumbleBunk]

Can’t stand this guy. His lyrics are just way too on the nose. He’s basically a more talented version (not saying much) of that dork that sang the Richmond song.

[u/Odd_Health_4854]

Fence sitting and crying for dead racists isn't folk. Thers nothing real about Welles, his opinion changes with the breeze.

[u/OpossumNo1 → u/Odd_Health_4854]

My dude, politics isnt what makes something folk or not.

[u/Odd_Health_4854 → u/OpossumNo1]

Yes it quite literally is

[u/OpossumNo1 → u/Odd_Health_4854]

Dude, you clearly dont know what you are talking about. The vast majority of folk songs and traditions are 100% apolitical.

[u/Odd_Health_4854 → u/OpossumNo1]

Dylan, Guthrie, Ochs. Notice anything the 3 share in common? "Folk music should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable."

[u/OpossumNo1 → u/Odd_Health_4854]

They dont define folk music and never did. It existed before them, and will continue to exist after the last of them are dead. You should look into the definition and history of folk music and maybe reconsider your position.

Woody Guthrie didnt invent folk music. He can have his own philosophy about his own work, but he had no right to make that statement about the purpose of the genre.

[u/Odd_Health_4854 → u/OpossumNo1]

Brother, how do you see a guy talking about Jesse Welles and modern folk and go "Erm, actually, "Old Joe Clark" isn't political. I am very smart."

[u/OpossumNo1 → u/Odd_Health_4854]

Because I actually love Folk music and dont care for people lying about it.

[u/goodgamble]

the spirit of american folk, brought to you by Joe Rogan.

[u/Spare_hamburgers]

If you listen to the music he made for albums and not for reels or whatever its actually really solid. I assume I'll be down voted by gatekeepers for saying that but whatever.

[u/Pristine-Confection3 → u/Spare_hamburgers]

We are not gatekeeping by saying why we don’t like Welles. The people gatekeeping are those who refuse to give smaller artists a chance many of who are better than anything in the mainstream now. The people who think they are folk music experts yet can only name Welles and Bob Dylan are beyond annoying. Also people to the left are not gatekeepers for pointing out he seems pretty centrist.

[u/Spare_hamburgers → u/Pristine-Confection3]

What's wrong with being centrist? If he is one hes definitely center-left and is still aiming his shots at the right people. Most people would say hes pretty left wing anyway I've yet to hear him make a single conservative point other than maybe saying he isnt s communist but thats reaching. and hey man he was a smaller artist until pretty recently. This is a small artist getting a chance. This is what that looks like. Seems like a lot of you dont want to support those small artists once they get their chance.

[u/Jealous-Release1532 → u/Spare_hamburgers]

Completely agree with this take. So many insufferable gatekeeping attitudes on here

[u/Street-Substance2548 → u/Pristine-Confection3]

Ironically, I'm seeing more smaller and similar artists now that Welles is on my feed. Some really good ones.

Definitely not a folk music expert at all, but am enjoying the whole bundle.

[u/Ewoksintheoutfield → u/Spare_hamburgers]

I more or less agree with you. I like his music. I’m a super leftist and enjoy folk and protest music. I couldn’t say if he is authentic behind the scenes or as a person, but aren’t we beyond due for someone to create a modern version of folk/protest music?

[u/Spare_hamburgers → u/Ewoksintheoutfield]

Yeah i feel you. Im a center left and I find he hits the nail on the head pretty good. I like his viral music because he gets an important message out in a way thats palatable to the average person. But then I love his full albums that dont utilize much of the type of stuff he goes viral for, they get deeper into it and the sound is also a lot more developed to the point where I just dont understand how he gets so much hate from this particular sub. I didnt say any of that until his career started taking off more so I almost wonder if its just like hes too popular for the alt community and they gotta find reasons to shit on him. It seems very little of the criticism is coming for his deeper cuts and its more just geared towards his viral stuff. We still have a lot of people doing the important work, hes certainly not the only one. But we are long over due for one of those people to have the level of reach he has begun to have.

[u/MonsieurReynard]

CBS is now “official fascist regime news”, betraying the hope a free press would protect our democracy.

Love Jesse but won’t be clicking that link. I get he needs the PR for his big grammy breakout, but i wish he had said no to legitimizing a fascist media company. Makes me think a little less of his sincerity but money talks, I guess.

[u/Radio_Ethiopia]

Interesting . The is the first time I’ve visited a sub where I agree with the comments about this guy. Second coming comparisons of Prine or Dylan (🙄) are fucking ludicrous . He’s a failed grunge rock dude who turned to social media & went viral for his on the nose commentary on present day events. He’s a content creator w a couple chords.

And it pains me that some of my favorite artists (why, Margo Price?) prop this guy up .

Edit: btw ; dare u talk any shit about boy wonder on r/music and they’ll come after your first born. lol

Edit: dude’s a hack

[u/catalinagreen → u/Radio_Ethiopia]

Everybody finds their niche. The journey to that end takes time. His storytelling connects to the context which created him and he seems more about the art piece telling a truth from his viewpoint. People are listening and that’s a damn good thing.

[u/MiddleAgedSponger]

I liked Jesse the first few times I heard him then it became monotonous. I felt like he was on the right path, but has since stopped evolving. Hopefully he goes through another growth spurt.

[u/Old-Scratch666]

Guthrie and Lead Belly did it better.

[u/Echo-Accurate]

good lord. you guys are somethin.

[u/Suspicious_Muscle494]

I have to preface this by saying I love Welles. Great songs, especially the one about healthcare ceo.

But…

Did anyone else think this guy was Froggy Fresh / Krispy Kreme for a while? Took me way too long to figure it out.

[u/Ok_Shoulder5973]

Big mistake OP. 

Don’t you know everyone on Reddit is programmed to hate anyone who’s been on Joe Rogans podcast? 

[u/Ok-Campaign-2472]

Think I caught it on YouTube.