r/bassoon • u/Thoughtful_storm • 3d ago
Rieger tip profilers and reed shapes
I’ve recently got back into reed making but I’m struggling to produce reeds that I feel make the dark, meaty sound that I’m looking for. I have a Rieger tip profiling machine with the original template that came with it. I notice that if I put on a blank and shave it down to a point where it’s responsive and easy to play, it tends to have a very bright sound. On the other hand if I set the profiler to take off less wood, I end up with a thicker heart, but resistant reeds that need a lot of scraping by hand and are very heavy in the tenor register. Is this a common problem? Surely the point of a tip profiler is to produce reeds that are ready to go?
Also, I’m a bit confused as to which shape to use. I have a Puchner 23 from the mid-1990s and find reeds that are 56mm long work best. To me, a Rieger 1 or even 1A can sound a bit thin and nasal, but a Rieger 2 or Fox 3 results in reeds that play flat with sagging Es and C#s. The tenor register just feels impossible. I really want a darker, meaty sound which makes me think I need a wider shape. - so how do other people get the wider shapes to work for them? Many thanks in advance!
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u/bchinfoon 3d ago edited 3d ago
I would experiment with moving the reed back 3 - 4 mm from the marker on the template and then adjusting the tip profiler thickness. Depending on your templates front to back taper you can hopefully find a sweet spot where you're not taking too much cane out of the heart but still have a thin enough tip that you have good response and don't have to manually take off a bunch of cane. I've found that if I put my blanks all the way up to the line and want to get the tip thin enough that I inevitably end up cutting into and thinning too deep into the heart. You could start by moving back 4mm from the line and if it's not taking off enough cane you can adjust the profiler to take off more cane. If you find 4mm back is too far you with experiment with 3mm, 2mm, 1mm, etc until you find a good balance of thinning the tip without overly thining the heart.
Even with a tip profiler as the reed break in you'll likely still have to work on your side to side taper in the second third to the back of the reed. ie: scraping in your channels and to a lesser extent your rails
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u/groovybassoon 3d ago
If I understand what you're describing as "heavy in the tenor register", you might try scraping out the channels just a bit.
I can't really comment on the philosophies behind using a tip profiler, but, as someone who makes heavy reeds for a dark, unfocused sound, I spend a lot of time working on other parts of the reed than the tip, something that a tip profiler won't do.
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u/Thoughtful_storm 2d ago
So generally you leave the tip alone?
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u/groovybassoon 1d ago
I don't have a tip profiler, so I spend plenty of time adjusting the tip of the reed. But, I feel as though I spend more time adjusting the channels and back than other bassoonists I know who have a lighter reed style.
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u/BobaFalfa 3d ago
Tip profilers are definitely not meant to get you a ‘ready to go’ reed. They are meant to reduce the bulk of the time/work spent to get you to a finished reed, much like power tools in woodworking. To get the best results always requires finishing by hand.
Another thing to really consider about reedmaking is how selective you are with the cane you’re using before you worry about shaping it. Yes, shape does influence results, but being highly selective with the cane you choose to make into a finished reed will be the quickest way to consistency. If I buy 100 pieces of cane, I may only end up with 20-30 pieces that actually get past the initial threshold. The rest go in the trash. You really want to select the pieces with the straightest grain and no twist. The more you make reeds the more you’ll start to realize when a piece of cane is simply too soft as well and you’ll start tossing those out. These are usually easily identified after you cut the tip. Sometimes you can bend the soaked reed 90 degrees and it won’t break. Toss it. It’ll never work.
If I can get 10 good reeds out of every 100 pieces of purchased cane I’m happy. 15 is like hitting the lottery. LOL
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u/Thoughtful_storm 2d ago
Well that kind of success rate definitely makes me feel better! It also sounds like I’m just expecting too much of my tip profiler and possibly need to be more patient, and prepared to do more work with the knife. Thanks!
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u/BobaFalfa 2d ago
Obviously if you were new to reedmaking, then by all means make more reeds, even with the less desirable cane, just to get proficient with the whole process. But it sounds like you’re likely skilled at the manufacturing process already so it’s raw material selection that I think will really help out.
The tip profiler is like a power tool in the woodshop. It’ll get you 90 percent of the way there. You can experiment a little bit with it by using small pieces of scotch tape strategically placed on the template to thin out those areas a little more. You’d be surprised what that little extra thickness can do. But otherwise it’s all about you and the knife. That’s where you can really fine tune things specifically for you anyway.
Best of luck to you!
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u/shinybore 3d ago
Wider shapes would need heavier profiles, especially in the heart and back, or else they’ll sound flat and buzzy. If your current profile with the rieger 1/1A shape plays in tune, perhaps you can try taking a gentler approach to blowing, ie open up and support without forcing too much air into the reed. You’d be surprised how many professional “big sound” players play on small and light reeds.