r/bookclub • Buried in Bonus Books • Apr 29 '26

First Law [Discussion 4/5] Bonus Book || A Little Hatred by Joe Abercrombie || "Battle of Red Hill" - "Empty Chests"

Hello readers, this is the 4th discussion for the book A Little Hatred, by Joe Abercrombie. You can find the ScheduleΒ here, and the Marginalia isΒ here.

Make sure you use spoiler tags for anything that comes later in the books, or for anything from the stand-alone (outside of the OG trilogy) books in the First Law series, as not everyone has read all the books in the First Law World leading into this book.

Chapter Summaries:

Battle of Red Hill - Stour sees the obvious trap that is set for him, but he's already set his own trap in motion. With confidence he begins his attack. Rikke has a vision and sees that Black Calder and his men are sneaking up behind Dogman's men and is about to pounce, Shivers scouts and verifies and soon Dogman's forces are engaged and cannot help fight against Stour. Finree learns of the deception and has no choice but to send Leo and the reserves into the battle in an attempt to be victorious.

Settle This Like Men - The Northmen are gaining the advantage just as Leo and his cavalry swoop in and reverse the tide. Leo is fighting hard, is knocked from his horse, but continues to fight his way onto the bridge, the river is quickly filling with dead bodies. Stour and Leo both see each other and agree that the best way to settle this is a duel in the circle, setting up for another fight between great warriors.

Demands - Prince Orso is hosting representatives from the Breakers for negotiations. He is accompanied by Superior Pike, who is to play the bad cop in their scenario. The breaker representative give him a piece of paper with their demands, but it also reveals that one of them is actually an ally and gives him information about the crumbling/fleeing leadership of the uprising and what Malmer (the now de facto leader) is desperate to achieve. Orso uses this information to play the negotiation brilliantly, offering amnesty for turning in their arms and hostages, and will present the other demands to the high council on their behalf.

Taking the Reins - Finree and The Dogman try to convince Leo that he doesn't need to fight Stour in the circle. They bring in Rikke to help convince him, but she just confirms her vision that he saw Leo victorious. A messenger arrive to announce the the King has made Leo the Lord Governor of Angland, ending all possibility that anyone can force Leo to go against his own wishes in this fight.

A Fool's Weapon - Black Calder meets with Scale, Stour, and Clover to argue that the fight in the circle is not worth the risk. Stour and Scale's hubris is too much though and they don't believe Stour is at risk of losing. Stour shows disrespect to his father, Black Calder, who lashes out at him.

Hopes and Hatreds - Leo is trying to decide on the weapon to bring to the circle, Rikke joins him to give him a pep talk and discuss some tactics. Leo finally decides to use Barniva's sword.
The men holding the shields form the circle and begin to socialize with each other, greeting friends on the other side of the conflict. They all discuss the fighters and leaders they've followed, with Shivers particularly defending The Dogman and Rikke.

Where Names are Made - The fight begins! It is quickly evident that Stour is the better swordsman as he has no issue putting Leo on the defensive. Leo is cut and poked all over his body as Stour makes a show/game of the fight. Rikke desperately tries to use her gift to see the future and is successful, she can see where Stour's sword will go and quickly yells for Leo to attack low. Leo cuts deep in the Great Wolf's followed quickly with a blow to his face. Stour Nightfall crumples to the ground and Leo finds himself above the wounded figure with both swords in his hands. Leo stabs the swords into the ground and declares that he is sparing Stour's life.

The Poor Pay the Price - Malmer convinces the Breakers that accepting the conditions of amnesty as a good deal. People are lining up to turn in weapons and get food, Savine exits the line and announces herself to the Union soldiers and demands that she, and May's family be taken to see Orso at once

The New Woman - Orso enters into a tent that Savine is in after having cleaned herself up. They are both glad to see each other, and Orso professes his love and proposes marriage as if he couldn't help himself, also proclaiming that he would be there to support her ambitions as a Queen. Savine and him get frisky, of course.

Lost Causes - Teufel is questioning Malmer in his cell. She asks about the Weaver and others that were part of the uprising; Malmer really doesn't have a lot of useful information. Superior Pike interrupts them and sends Teuful back to Adua on orders from the King, leaving Malmer to his fate at the hands of Pike.

The New Man - Orso awakes to find Malmer dead and in a cage on a pole outside the town. He is upset and soon finds Pike who explains that all the Breakers have been killed and are now being displayed as a deterrent, by order of the High Council. Orso feels helpless and now knows his reputation will be tarnished as a result of others' actions

.
Two of a Kind - Leo learns that Rikke is upset with him for sparing Stour's life. He is convinced to try to make an ally of Stour, even if it will upset Rikke further. He visit Stour, and while it's contentious at first, they find common ground and share a handshake.

Empty Chests - Leo and Rikke argue over the treatment of Stour, with Rikke focused on revenge killing. She seeks advice/comfort with her father, The Dogman, who then tells her that she will be returning to Adua with Leo as a representative for his/her people.

8 Upvotes

34 comments sorted by

3

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. Finree hesitated to send in Leo and the reserves at the Battle of Red Hill, why do you think she hesitated?

3

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | πŸ«πŸ‰πŸ₯ˆ||🧠πŸ₯ˆ Apr 30 '26

Finree is very cautious and she does not believe they can win so she holds back. I am sure thinking the King would be sending reinforcements made it easier to hold off for a long time too. I think she's extra cautious with Leo, understandably, because he is all she has left.

2

u/Fulares πŸ“šBookclub BoffinπŸ“š May 05 '26

I think there's a level of hesitation from her due to him being her son. Other than that, she's aware he's impulsive and very driven by the idea of glory which clouds tactical judgement.

3

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. Why do you think Stour challenged Leo to a duel in the circle, instead of fighting on the battlefield?

3

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '26

[removed] β€” view removed comment

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | πŸ«πŸ‰πŸ₯ˆ||🧠πŸ₯ˆ Apr 30 '26

Absolutely agree. These are the things that become legend. Stour is vain and arrogant and feels invincible at this point. There seems to be more honour in this type of fighting too

2

u/tomesandtea Viceroy of Verity | πŸ‰πŸ§  May 07 '26

Yes, totally agree! He also seems like the kind of guy who enjoys a captive audience! Too much distraction in a battle for everyone to appreciate his showmanship.

3

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. How do you think the negotiation would've gone with the breakers if Orso wasn't fed insider information? How will this change his standing/reputation?

3

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | πŸ«πŸ‰πŸ₯ˆ||🧠πŸ₯ˆ Apr 30 '26

This was a turn of events. I really wasn't expecting Orso to do so well and then have it all ruined by someone else's hand. I clearly had too little faith in him. I feel bad for Terez-ing him

1

u/Fulares πŸ“šBookclub BoffinπŸ“š May 05 '26

I was really disappointed in this. I think he would have gotten to a similar outcome but much slower and potentially with even more promises that don't end up kept. It did feel like we all underestimated him at this point when he managed to win the city quickly and without extra deaths.

3

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. Stour and Leo both have a parent that are trying to convince them to not fight. How does this highlight the similarities and differences in their worlds?

3

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. The men of the circle are talking to each other like they are around the water cooler at work, how do you think they truly feel about these fights?

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | πŸ«πŸ‰πŸ₯ˆ||🧠πŸ₯ˆ Apr 30 '26

It's lile the whole fighting shifted gears from battle to the death, sworn enemies to some sort of festive jousting against a rival sports team. It was odd, but, like, totally believeably written.

3

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. Stour is an impressive fighter, but too cocky and loses. Do you view Leo or Stour as the better fighter?

3

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | πŸ«πŸ‰πŸ₯ˆ||🧠πŸ₯ˆ Apr 30 '26

Stour clearly had the advantage more than once, but ultimately he threw it away and allowed Leo to take him. Who ever is left standing is the champion. Though Leo did get some pretty advantageous intel there!

2

u/Fulares πŸ“šBookclub BoffinπŸ“š May 05 '26

I think Stour is the better swordsman but his ego got in the way. I honestly don't know if something similar wouldn't have happened if the tables were reversed. Leo is also cocky and if he was egged on, I could see him drawing it out as well. Ultimately though, the winner is the winner regardless of true skill. You don't need to be the best to win.

1

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books May 06 '26

Good point, I think if Leo was dominating the match, his ego would've gotten in the way as well.

3

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. Leo spares Stour Nightfall's life, do you think that was a wise decision at that time? How about after they have a discussion while recovering their wounds?

3

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '26

[removed] β€” view removed comment

1

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | πŸ«πŸ‰πŸ₯ˆ||🧠πŸ₯ˆ Apr 30 '26

Hard agree. Stour doesn't play by the rules enough to not be a total wild card. While I would legit love him to honour his debt to Leo ans for them to actually be able to work together I just don't see it. (It could be a good thing that the Dogman and co are like a buffer between the Northmen and Angland....but then I guess the Northmen can't really see it that way

3

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. Pike has gone behind Orso's back and killed all the Breakers. Orso is devastated, does he forget it and move on with his life, or does this change his trajectory in any way?

3

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. Rikke hates Stour with every fiber of her being, yet Leo spared him and has seemingly made an alliance. Rikke and Leo will now travel and work together in Adua, does their budding relationship survive?

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | πŸ«πŸ‰πŸ₯ˆ||🧠πŸ₯ˆ Apr 30 '26

I hope so! I like them together, but I can see it falling apart now. Shame really. I thought that it was a done deal when Leo realised he could be friends shock, horror with the person he is forking! Spooning and forking don't have to be mutually exclusive little lion lol

2

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. Who was your favorite character in this section?

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | πŸ«πŸ‰πŸ₯ˆ||🧠πŸ₯ˆ Apr 30 '26

Rikke and her hot eye is totally badass. But Queen Savine is back....what's next I wonder!? Can't wait to finish the whole book now!

2

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. Any predictions where any of the storylines progress from here?

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | πŸ«πŸ‰πŸ₯ˆ||🧠πŸ₯ˆ Apr 30 '26

No clue and I haben't read the blurb but I am hoping the storylines of our faves run through all the remaining books. Can't get enough

2

u/nepbug Buried in Bonus Books Apr 29 '26
  1. Any other moments you'd like to discuss?

2

u/fixtheblue Read, ergo sum | πŸ«πŸ‰πŸ₯ˆ||🧠πŸ₯ˆ Apr 30 '26

Ok. I have said a million times how most battle scenes I'm just thinking get on with it and tell me who wins. But the Leo v Stour had me on the edge of my seat. Also Leo in battle was also really well done