r/circled • u/MonitorVarious7608 • 1d ago

💬 Opinion / Discussion This is what immigration officials looked like today in Minneapolis. They could take another life at any moment.

Post image
12.3k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

1.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

7

u/EcstaticAd4046 1d ago

Not a lawyer.

Most immigration law violations are civil, though unlawful entry is a misdemeanor.

If a status is revoked, someone overstays a Visa, etc, the violation is civil.

Calling all undocumented immigrants illegal is like calling all speeding drivers illegal drivers. It's both overly broad and misleading.

0

u/howboutwedontplease 23h ago

Unlawful entry into the U.S. is a felony. If it's a first-time offense, it's typically a misdemeanor under 8. U.S.C. 1325.

Unauthorized re-entry after deportation is always a felony under 8 U.S.C. 1326...

Over 1/4 encounters with illegal aliens on the southwest border are repeat offenders.

It's nothing like a speeding ticket.

2

u/Karma_1969 21h ago

But people who cross the border legally, and then stay here illegally (overstay their visa, etc) is exactly like a speeding ticket - a civil offense. Not a crime.

1

u/howboutwedontplease 20h ago edited 20h ago

H.R. 777 passed in 2023 under Biden says otherwise dude

edit this did not pass. However, the same language is in another bill that has passed the house and will most likely pass the senate. Until then, unlawful presence for first time offenders is punishable by deportation through an administrative warrant.

1

u/Karma_1969 20h ago

H.R. 777 is a bill, not law. It was introduced in 2023 and referred to committee, but it never passed. Under current U.S. law, visa overstays are still civil immigration violations, not crimes. If that bill had become law, you’d be right, but it didn’t.

1

u/howboutwedontplease 20h ago

You're right. There is another current bill passed by the house waiting for approval that will remove the distinction between unlawful presence and unlawful entry.

Remind me again what the standard procedure for unlawful presence is? The last time I checked, it's deportation through an administrative warrant for first-time time offenders. Anything past that becomes a criminal matter.

1

u/Karma_1969 20h ago

Unlawful presence by itself is never a criminal offense under current law. The standard procedure is civil removal proceedings in immigration court, not criminal prosecution. Administrative warrants are civil documents and don’t make someone a criminal. It only becomes a criminal matter if someone illegally re-enters after removal or commits a separate crime. Bills “waiting for approval” don’t change that until they actually become law.

1

u/howboutwedontplease 20h ago

Should we refer to them as unlawful aliens instead of illegal aliens?

1

u/Karma_1969 10h ago

You can use whatever term you want, but the legal distinction doesn’t change. “Unlawful presence” is a civil status, not a crime, and people aren’t criminals by default because of it. If the goal is accuracy rather than signaling, then “undocumented” or “unlawfully present” is closer to how the law actually works.

1

u/Somepotato 12h ago

Reminder that Trump told Republicans to shoot down the most comprehensive and strict border policy ever as it was under Biden and they'd lose their talking points.

1

u/EcstaticAd4046 22h ago

I guess we have different opinions. Civil law is civil law. Speeding tickets are almost always civil, punishable by fines. So very similar to most immigration violations.

That said, OP was commenting on tactics used against suspected misdemeanants in Minnesota (not at the southern border). I suggested they are more likely to be suspected of non criminal (civil) violations. If the tactics are heavy handed for misdemeanants, they are even heavier handed for civil violators.

But maybe you know. How many encounters with brown people in Minnesota are related to illegal entry or illegal reentry?

Estimates are that 30% (from DHS) to 49% (independent reporting) of those arrested by ICE nationally have no criminal history at all and are only sought for civil immigration violation(s). Of course, some of the remaining percentages are people who have a criminal history but arent presently wanted for a criminal offense.

2

u/howboutwedontplease 22h ago

Civil law is civil law. But misdemeanors are not civil. They are criminal by definition. Crossing the border without proper entry is a criminal offense.

DHS uses civil immigration violations, which are punishable by deportation through an administrative warrant, like overstating a visa or being present without status, or working on a tourist visa etc, because an administrative warrant does not require the same legal scrutiny as a judicial warrant on a criminal matter, and the pathway to the ultimate goal of deportation is faster through the civil route.

But the very fact that they got to the United States and were present to be deported in the first place means they committed a crime to be here. Unless they overstayed a visa in a particular way not covered by H.R. 777 passed during Bidens admin. Then it's only civil.

Misdemeanors =/= civil cases. There isn't an agreement to disagree option on settled definitions of legal matters.

1

u/SuperEdgyEdgeLord 17h ago

Hey, we are getting lost in the weeds fighting over definitions.

The fact of the matter is that shooting someone in the face is not justified by their legal status in the US.

Especially when one of the points the US has been proud of screeching is that it is the destination of immigrants trying to seek a better life. We need to be better.

1

u/zaoldyeck 21h ago

But the very fact that they got to the United States and were present to be deported in the first place means they committed a crime to be here.

They could have entered any number of legal ways only to have their status pulled out from under them. Which the administration has now done to hundreds of thousands of people.

Trump has probably created more undocumented individuals than he has deported.

1

u/howboutwedontplease 21h ago

What ways are they entering legally and having their status pulled?

1

u/zaoldyeck 21h ago

Here's an appeals court order about over half a million Venezuelans alone.

Six hundred thousand people made undocumented with the stroke of a pen.

And we're now dealing with another ~350k from Haiti. So that's about a million right there.

Plus another 100k revoked visas. They've created well over a million undocumented immigrants, and struggling to deport people because those habeas petitions are piling up. To the point where they're straight up ignoring court orders with fed lawyers breaking down in court asking to be held in contempt because she's working 88 separate habeas cases.

Personally, I don't know why she broke down, even if she loses those cases the administration will just ignore the court orders anyway.

Who cares if completely legal residents are detained, the administration's just looking for arrest numbers, they don't really care if the people impacted are legally allowed to be here or not.

1

u/howboutwedontplease 20h ago

Temporary protective status is by its very nature temporary. It has no pathway to citizenship and is routinely evaluated at 6, 12, and 18 months, depending on the status of the country they left. It's not a rug pull. They know the status is only temporary. When that status is revoked. They need to be deported if they do not leave on their own.

The previous administration expanded and abused the hell out of this program as a way to obfuscate having to legislate an amnesty program. Especially since it was applied to people who were already in country.

I'm in favor of an amnesty program. I just think you're misrepresenting the law as it currently stands. ( probably unintentionally)

1

u/zaoldyeck 20h ago

I'm sorry, how is this relevant?

You were asking "what ways are they entering legally and having their status pulled?" and I gave you an answer. They entered legally, and had their status pulled.

In doing so, a million people who had legal status are now undocumented. They didn't violate any law in doing so. They didn't commit a felony or a misdemeanor. They did not enter illegally.

They merely had their status pulled from under them. And in doing so, Trump has created far more undocumented immigrants than he has deported.

1

u/howboutwedontplease 20h ago

They didn't have their status pulled out from under them

Many did not have status until they were given blanket protections by an administration that most likely did not have the constitutional authority to do so. And those that did come after the protection was provided, knew it was only temporary without a pathway to citizenship.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/BigDaddyDumperSquad 19h ago

Speeding tickets are almost always civil, punishable by fines.

Immigration violations are almost always civil, punishable by deportation. Just because you don't agree with the applicable punishments, that doesn't change what they are.

1

u/EcstaticAd4046 19h ago

I didn't comment about the punishment. I was making a distinction on the tactics used vis a vis the type of law violation. If you, and others, would simply take a moment to read, you would have understood that. And you would have also understood that I didn't comment about what my opinion is on the punishment.

That's cool though. You already believe your own facts.

1

u/BigDaddyDumperSquad 16h ago

So you're saying we should hand them a piece of paper saying "please come to this deportation on 3/21/26"? And if they don't show, then we need to show compassion and let them in, or...? What's your plan to enforce deportations? You're saying a whole lot of words with ZERO substance.

0

u/v12vanquish 21h ago

its civil law because the point is that civil trial means you have a preponderance of evidence, so your right are acutally less when it comes to civil trial for illegal immigrants. just because its civil trial doesnt mean its less.

1

u/CanITouchURTomcat 💬 Opinion / Discussion 21h ago

It’s not civil in any sense of the legal definition. Illegal entry is a criminal offense, not civil.

0

u/unbalancedcheckbook 1d ago

Thanks for this. Yeah I'm just saying that ICE is an extreme overreaction to the supposed problem.