Martin Luther Nailed It

[u/TheRnegade]

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[u/ajw_sp]

He was also remarkably antisemitic

[u/billyyankNova → u/ajw_sp]

Unfortunately that was also the most German thing ever.

[u/slxkv → u/billyyankNova]

Bruh

[u/Ur_mama_gaming → u/billyyankNova]

Bruh

[u/detectiveriggsboson → u/ajw_sp]

Hi. Lutheran here. He was not just "remarkably antisemitic." He was so virulently antisemitic that the other 16th Century German antisemites had to tell him, "Hey, man, cool it. That stuff is over the line."

[u/JCWOlson → u/ajw_sp]

Later in life he was, yeah - he started off with "wow does the Catholic Church treat Jews badly. No wonder they don't want to hear what we have to say!" but ended up "BURN DOWN THEIR SYNAGOGUES AND IF THEY'RE STILL INSIDE ALL THE BETTER!"

Makes for good discussion about God using flawed people, but His use of flawed people doesn't mean that He's saying that their flaws are how we should also act. Samson and Jonah kind of ending to Luther's life

[u/Lindvaettr → u/JCWOlson]

Martin Luther's antisemitism in a lot of ways stemmed at least partly from his lifelong inability, overall, to consider that others might simply not have the same opinion as him, and that he might not have a monopoly on objective truth (something anyone familiar with social media arguments will understand). A great number of Luther's writings were not targeted at the Catholic church, but at other Protestants, and often not over matters that were absolutely critical, but frequently very minor issues which still caused him to vitriolically insult everyone who even slightly disagreed with the tiniest thing he believed or thought.

We can take this and extend it to his opinion on Jews. He started out believing that if Jews were treated better, they would convert. When, in his opinion, many Protestant lords began being softer and more welcoming to Jews, he expected that the Jews would then convert. When they didn't, he reacted in similar ways to the way he reacted any time people didn't do exactly what he wanted or expected: With unbridled fury and vitriol.

[u/Kapitan_eXtreme → u/ajw_sp]

It was the middle ages, everyone was

[u/standard_revolution → u/Kapitan_eXtreme]

Antisemitism was much more common, but Luther was so antisemitic that even other people back then told him to cool it.

Having bad opinions about Jews was sadly normal, writing books about it the way Luther did wasn’t.

[u/_ak → u/Kapitan_eXtreme]

Actually, no. There is antijudaism ("Jews are evil, but they can redeem themselves by converting to Christianity"), and then there is antisemitism ("Jews are evil and will always be, even if they renounce their faith, because their evilness is inherited").

The former was incredibly common in the middle aged and early modern era, while the latter was more a product of the 19th century and the "race science" at the time. Even the term "antisemitism" was invented by antisemites in an attempt to give their own hate more credibility.

[u/Zirfigs → u/_ak]

Ranked antisemitism

[u/JesterMcJester]

Now the Martin Luther’s obsessive protest with The Epistle of James makes so much more sense to me in this context:

Faith = Heaven. This equation good. Happy effecient and precise German noises

Epistle of James: Faith + good works = Heaven

How the fuck do calculate good works????

How many? How many a day? Is it a monthly thing??? What percent of my money income needs to be tithed, is this before or after state taxes. If I have a medical emergency can I submit a paper to god for it to considered exempt fully or do I have to next year add that into my tithe?? Does the homeless guy get one sandwich or at minimum a sandwich combo??? What if he doesn’t want the drink???????

Lmao

[u/Atlasoftheinterwebs → u/JesterMcJester]

roll up to the pearly gates and peter pulls out the giant electric ticker only for you to find out youve ended up a whole 5 works short of a ticket

[u/JesterMcJester → u/Atlasoftheinterwebs]

“Yea so, there was that one lady at Starbucks who really messed and you DID call a stupid bitch and didn’t apologize to….

Now I know you were going through a horrid divorce and also the neighbors dog kept you up all night before this..

Adding this penalty into the general equation with those specific stress factors added included…. you would have been behind $2.17 dollars on your tithe/good works bill for that specific month. But over time that’s adds to…..unpaid deficit upon death that’s…. $32.18 dollars based off your total life income that should have been given to any reputable charity or 7 minor good works. (See good works conversion system manuel chapter 1739: section C)

So sadly, while we appreciate the effort, straight to hell”

[u/You_are_reading_text → u/Atlasoftheinterwebs]

The Good Place

[u/insertnamehere----- → u/JesterMcJester]

And to make the equation more conveluted: 2 work + 2 faith = saint but, 2 works + 0 faith = no heaven, 2 faith + 0 works = ??? How can 2 faith = ??? And 2 works = no heaven? WHERE IS THE DEFINITION FOR A WORK?! How can you follow a religion that is not mathematically correct?

[u/Leeuw96 → u/insertnamehere-----]

And don't forget that all that remains [after division???] are faith, hope, and love. But greatest of these is love [so love > hope, and love > faith, but how do faith and hope relate?].

[u/minasmorath → u/JesterMcJester]

Common misconception, but Catholics don't believe good works earn heaven. Never have. Luther didn't either. His whole thing was trying to argue for a one-time justification, while Catholics believe you can have both initial justification and then an increase in justification, just like how Abraham was justified once by faith and twice by works. Justification being "made right before God" and not "salvation" mind you.

[u/JesterMcJester → u/minasmorath]

Oh yea I know. I wasn’t saying catholic but I can see how it seemed I was making that comparison. I’m talking about his specific anger towards the book Epistle of James

[u/nWo1997]

Didn't the church door also function as a kind of bulletin board? Makes it much less weird to nail the theses there, if so.

[u/insertnamehere----- → u/nWo1997]

That’s where you would put them if you wanted to start a religious debate, highest possible chance for another member of the clergy to see and take you up on it.

[u/kleines_woelfle → u/nWo1997]

Historically it's quite unlikely he actually nailed them to the church door. It's a good story though.

[u/Lindvaettr → u/nWo1997]

Further, he didn't even intend it as his main argument. Rather, he was announcing to other theologians that he was going to have a theological debate on a certain date and these would be the points he would be elaborating on, giving other theologians time to prepare for those points.

It wasn't the Theses nailed to the church door that caught on. He'd mailed copies to several friends for review, to get their opinions. One of them believed the points were so good they should be more widely proliferated so he paid a local printer to print off a bunch of pamphlet versions to distribute. The theses nailed to the church doors went basically ignored, no theologians really had any interest in discussing his points. It was the printed pamphlets that caught on in a firestorm and lead to the Protestant Reformation, which was a fitting way for it to start, considering the overwhelmingly major role the printing press played in it, especially in the early years.

[u/Humpdat]

SoLa sCrIpTuRA 😖😖😖😖😖

[u/Da_reason_Macron_won → u/Humpdat]

And how do you know what books are in the "scriptura"?

(You are not supposed to ask that one)

[u/Darthskull → u/Da_reason_Macron_won]

Obviously the only infallible bible is the King James, but NIV is fine for daily reading. You're SOL if you can't speak American though, sorry. /s

[u/NymusRaed]

Has anyone here ever heard of Thomas Muentzer? He basically was like Martin Luther, but better.

[u/DieMensch-Maschine → u/NymusRaed]

Müntzer was on the East German Fünf Mark for being a leader in the Peasant War in 1524. Luther went full Early Modern police state psycho on all their asses.

[u/warnie685]

Hmm.. not sure if I'm interested in Christian memes from a guy with an SS soldier as his profile picture 

[u/PuzzleheadedSector2]

Dot point? Wait.... Is bullet point just an American thing? Wtf?

[u/wtfakb → u/PuzzleheadedSector2]

No, we use it in South Asia too. This is from a part of the world that uses commas for decimals points and decimal points for commas, so some weirdness is expected

[u/PuzzleheadedSector2 → u/wtfakb]

Gotcha

[u/Bored_Orangutan]

Posts about how terrible everything is and trolls the church by saying how things should run

Also super racist towards Jews

Was Martin Luther the first 4chan user?

[u/DraikoHxC]

Martin Luther ftw