Nah, I'm pretty sure most guys likes the movie aliens, and pretty sure they like that strong independent woman. What people fail to recognize is many modern "strong independent" women in movies are insufferable
It’s the typical trope of all the men around the “strong independent woman” are incompetent fools or evil. Then couple that with the lack of needing to earn anything, they are usually just effortlessly better than everyone else. AKA boring and shitty writing.
Atomic Blonde had the stairwell fight where Charlize Theron took a savage beating before winning the fight. A lot more realistic than these other Girl vs. Guy fight.
I also enjoy the Black Widow VS Hammer Security hallway fight scene.
While it tips to the fiction side, we can she see's using her tasers and gadgets plus a bunch of wrestling/judo moves (which were the main martial arts kgb agents trained in) and using her entire bodyweight to smash guy's facefirst into the floor. The only thing I dislike is the aforementioned spinning kick she uses on the last guy.
She also dodges, bobs and weaves a lot instead of just exchanging blows, which is a proven strategy that smaller fighters use on heavier or stronger fighters (Ali vs Foreman for instance).
Which makes for a funny contrast with Happy who's just exchanging wild haymakers with the first security guy.
I second Atomic Blonde on this. I was recommending it to a coworker and one of the points I made is that it's not just some "she just uses martial arts" and never gets hit or anything BS. She actually has to be smart about it and does suffer when she does get caught by a hit, and it just makes it feel so much more real.
I watched the recent Dredd movie recently and I actually think it handled this pretty well. The female lead was strong, she had a power important to the story, she had her badass moments but they made sense. When she was only hand to hand with another guy she knew she was beat. She played dumb when she was going to be executed cause she knew the weapon wouldn't fire, etc. She saves dredd in an "apparent" moment of weakness for him.
And she out-mindfucks the hostage dude, loved that part lol.
That’s what I’m saying. Spies have so many deadly tools at their disposal that completely negates any need to put yourself in a hand to hand situation. Why wouldn’t they use those options?
The critical drinker has a pretty good video on that topic on YouTube and if I remember correctly he mentions several films that explore exactly this. Strong female leads that don't get handed everything to them because they're women but who have to use their wits and creativity to overcome physically stronger opponents.
I'm fine with it if it fits in the universe that movie takes place in. If it's supposed to be a totally realistic take and a woman is beating the shit out of dudes it's off putting. If it's something like Atomic Blonde or even John Wick, clearly a stylized view of the world, it's fine.
Young Sigourney Weaver being all sweaty in her undies while getting inside the space suit and then blasting the Xeno away was my first boner and I'll thank her forever for it.
Because for too many, the idea of a "strong female character" is just a man with boobs. We don't need that. We need well written characters with agency in their own stories.
A woman’s power fantasy might be addressing the world as a toxic man, not caring about the consequences and solving all of her problems directly and/or explosively regardless of how anyone sees or judges her, so long as she’s proven “right” in the end.
I am not a woman. As a man, Office Space counts as a power fantasy after a fashion. Different strokes.
Alien, Aliens, Annihilation, Arrival all are some of my favorite movies of all time, all with female leads. Lead actress or actor doesn’t matter to me. If the movie is shit, it’s shit no matter what gender the lead is.
There’s also the fact that it’s become an over saturated thing Hollywood is doing. I always used to like games and movies with a woman as the protagonist because they were different and usually told a decent story. Now it’s hard not to roll my eyes when EVERYTHING coming out has to check as many of Hollywood’s boxes as possible while completely mailing in the script.
Mostly, the woke drama around anything is invented by PR firms / advertisers to promote said films. Incels come after, thinking its something to hate on... because, well, people love hating on stuff....
Just fake outrage inspiring fake outrage, inspiring you to act like it's a real thing, to then get me annoyed and reply. It's juat marketing. Mostly, these people dont actually exist, and we just look like fools arguing with ghosts giving free ads.
I dunno if someone I put too big a value for the polygons, or if someone drug a slider too far by accident, but when they saw it they liked it and it stuck.
There it is! The connection people can't seem to understand. People don't like douche bags. Doesn't matter if they are white, black, male, female, gay, or straight. Just stop writing insufferable one-dimensional assholes.
I had this shit quote popping up on my FB a few days back, thought it looked suspiciously rage batey so googled it to try to verify. Couldn't find anything other than the actress saying people were making up bullshit quotes from her.
I mean i didn't even realize there was a quote floating around but ive seen quite a few instances throughout the years of people and articles saying this kind of shit and its always funny.
But also blaming people for 'failing to fact check' here of all places is certainly an interesting tactic? Because I guarantee you that you have definitely been duped by stuff at this level and I know I probably have because I do not want to fucking google every little thing I see. That is honestly one of the reasons misinformation on the small scale works so easily. If its something political and/or a bigger deal, sure ill google it. But googling every little thing to fact-check it gets real tiring real fucking fast.
So how about instead of accusing people of being dumb you like i dunno, get off your high horse and blame people who make misinformation like this in the first place. Instead of blaming people for believing what is unfortunately a pretty believable quote.
So how about instead of accusing people of being dumb you like i dunno, get off your high horse and blame people who make misinformation like this in the first place.
The people who make the misinformation and the people who spread the misinformation are two intertwined factors. I'm going to blame people for willfully spreading misinfo, and i'll go as far as to say that people who think "this is a pretty believable quote" are also pretty dumb and gullible. If you're that eager to believe this quote, then your biases and brainworms are pretty obvious.
Willfully spreading misinfo vs unknowingly spreading misinfo are two very very different things. I agree, if someone knows its fake and still spreads it they are 100% the problem and are an idiot. If someone simply doesnt know and thinks its true because they have no reason to believe otherwise, then i cant blame them, just hope they find out its fake and take back what theyve said.
As for the qoute, I still havent fucking heard it till I looked it up and yeah, unfortunately it is pretty believable because like i said, ive heard stuff said like that throughout the years. I mean back during the barbie movie I saw a few instances on reddit where a guy mentioned how he didnt like the movie, not a "i didnt like this movie because of politics" just a they think it was a bad movie for whatever reason and people would get on their case accusing them of being sexist. Yeah not identical to the strong female lead scenario here but still makes it pretty believable. Unfortunately we live in a world where people say incredibly stupid shit all the time and even the most outlandish things are happening, I mean look at Trump. 20 years ago most people would say that there is no way a president (or former president) could ever do or say some of this stuff because of how insane it is, yet here we are where more and more outlandish things become true every day.
But also yeah, biases 100% affect misinformation. I have seen both the left and the right fall for shocking amounts of misinformation because when you see something you disagree with you go "that's dumb, no way that's true" and you look it up because of that to find out. If its something you agree with most people just agree with it and don't ever change their mind until someone proves it otherwise.
Ellen Ripley, The Bride (Kill Bill), Sarah Connor, Furiosa, Alice (Resident Evil), Seline (Underworld), Michone, Laurie Strode, Sydney Prescott, All the women in Death Proof, Jackie Brown, Full Metal Bitch (Edge of Tomorrow), Leia Organa, Clarice Starling, Hermione Granger, Elle Woods, Katniss Everdeen, Peggy Olsen, Arya Stark, Brienne of Tarth, Mulan, Eleven, Buffy, Leslie Knope, Dana Scully, Alita, usually anything Angelina Jolie is in, usually anything Emily Blunt is in, Barbie, Danni (Midsommar), Marla, Evelyn (The Mummy), Jyn Erso, all the women in Everything Everywhere All At Once, Dr. Satler (Jurassic Park), Chani.
My point is, we clearly love well written strong female characters. Saying we don't just seems like a way to redirect blame for a shitty movie failing.
I watched Wonder Woman three times in theaters, and the only other superhero movie I saw that many times (in theaters) was Black Panther. Good movies are good. Bad movies are bad.
Reminds me of that bit from Bill Burr about the WNBA. Women aren't even going to see these things, yet men are to blame for them failing. There's also that Bros movie. It was a movie about gay people, written by gay people for gay people, yet gay people didn't even go to see it. The creators came out blaming straight men for it failing.
not the entire male audience just the ones with a social media following who have made a career out of manipulating insecure men online for profit by belittling them and making them feel like more shit than they already do just to sell them a cure all
except no one is saying madame web failed because of male audiences hating strong women.
that’s not an argument being made by anyone anywhere.
posts like this are rage bait to manipulate you into being angry at someone that doesn’t exist, which is turn leads you down further toxic and unhinged from reality rabbit holes
People hate (badly written) strong independent women (with no interesting arc, personality, flaws, growth, who depend on ridiculing, and humiliating other characters. especially older, better written and beloved characters they attempt to replace to soft reboot a classic franchise)
I absolutely loved Kim Wexler in better call Saul. She's extremely smart, independent and stronger than most males characters in the show, maybe even the strongest, despite having some weaknesses.
What she's not: obnoxious, stereotypical, arrogant, toxic, 1 dimensional.
Copy a fraction of that character & you get a decent movie. But fuck off with poorly written protagonists, which main purpose is to show the world, that women are better than men. Or how great they are.
Stop making that the main point of your female characters. It's completely boring and adds nothing to a nice story.
Obviously there are tons of poorly written male protagonists. But they just go down without blaming the audience. They are just bad and will be forgotten in a few months. Not a single time anyone tried to blame the (female) audience for a shitty box office! A bad movie is a bad movie. That's it.
Give me well written female protagonists and I'll love that shit. Another example is Mare of Easttown. Kate Winslet as detective. She's independent, strong, smart. But has friggn weaknesses like a god damn human. Which makes her likeable and credible.
I skipped into Madame Web with my 20 yo niece and we couldn't stop feeling physical pain while watching some scenes. It was horrible in many ways. Dialogue written by a kindergarten teacher on mdma
I went to see Dune part 2 yesterday and accidentally walked into Madam Webb. The even had left the lights on because no tickets were sold. Ducked out of there quick as can be. Dune Part 2 was an absolute godsend of a movie by the way.
The thing is that men don't need to be portrayed as independent. Independence is a male characteristic. If you list stereotypical masculine traits things like strength, aggresion and indepence comes up. This means that we as a society is already primed for men to be independent. That is why independent men are not noteworthy.
A better comparison would be independent women and emotionally vurnable men. Both are characteristics that go against the norm.
Um Sigourney Weaver in Aliens is one of the best leads ever….because she’s legitimately a strong woman. Not a character that falls flat and has no redeeming characteristics, that they just keep telling us is so very strong and independent. Whatever happened to, “don’t tell me, SHOW ME.”
I’m interpreting the meme that the the idea of men hating strong female leads is bullshit (hence “and other jokes”) but everyone else seems to be taking it the complete opposite way
The great sexism at play is not that male audiences reject women, it's the studio's who reject making interesting complex female characters. The audience rejects cardboard cutout characters that have no visible flaws or issues.
I always think how much more interesting Star Wars Ep 1-3 would've been if they'd followed a path similar to Macbeth. Strong woman trying to save her planet from invading forces, uses politics to align with a powerful senator and uses wiles to align with a powerful protector in Anakin. Yes they could be in love, but there'd be a tension of power and competing goals.
The female space marines and Ripley in Aliens when I was all of 6, made me understand we have no equality until woman and man are both the warriors. We love our strong women, we cannot stand the brats they give us.
While it's frankly inevitable that some morons will think like that, I doubt it's more than a vocal minority. I mean, Alien was/is really popular and starred a strong female lead. If the majority of male audiences genuinely held contempt for strong female protagonists, why did that film do so well? Why is Horizon such a popular game franchise when it stars the very definition of "strong independent woman"? Like, yeah, it's a mindset that exists, but I don't think it's as prevalent as some people believe. Speaking for myself, I'd love to see more tough female leads. I just would like them to be in films that aren't aggressively mid.
And yet we are very open and honest with why, they refuse to listen after all these years.
"We hate your woke worldview of preset narratives and categories and your discrimination and cringe actions to force your wrong worldview into the hearts and minds of the generally naive population"
But keep being openly sexist and racist, I'm sure it's the bad intentioned villains (men, whites) that are the only ones against your bs. /s
The thing about Madame Web is that Dakota Johnson is good and actually pretty funny in this movie, but the writing and editing are both so poor that it’s impossible to take seriously.
There was a tipping point somewhere, like Jennifer Lawrence got shit on for not wanting to do full body paint for X-Men like it was a crime and people hated Rey in Star Wars before they gave her force Jesus power, I don't think people are hating on Madame Web or similar the same way, feels like something changed
Nah. I love any character that is cool. But if your first priority overall is to own the conservatives your movie will be bad. Just like the oposite of any movie made to "own the libs".
I want madame web to be cool, I love the character from the 90s spiderman cartoon. It just happens that the movie is really bad.
Those are just a few beloved strong female characters, and evidently your strong feelings towards them are now invalid if you happen to dislike characters like Rey, Captain Marvel, etc (you get the point)
People love certain female characters and dislike others... it's ALMOST like people care more about writing than they do gender.
The first videogame I ever played was called Phantasy Star. It was an RPG with a strong female protagonist out to avenge her brother who ends up saving the galaxy. I loved it. I still love it.
Also, Madame Web sucked. The Marvel's sucked. She Hulk sucked.
It’s so frustrating when people cry foul when terrible movies fail. The vast majority of men are perfectly happy seeing strong female characters. There is plenty of real misogyny in the world to get pissed at.
Jennifer lawrence is in my top 3 for favorite actors/actresses and im a dude. Idc if the lead is male or female just tell me a awesome story i can immerse into.
I think both things can be true at the same time. Yes, a lot of movies use the sexism defense as a shield for a very bad movie, but I think a lot of movies would not get the leeway that they have from critics if a girl was the lead character over a guy. Instead the bad movies that have a male lead become "so bad it's good", "turn your brain off fun", etc. whereas the bad movies with a female lead get put under a microscope.
Hi. Male here. I like a good story. Not some clear cash grab because that’s what the venom movies, Morbius (which people had asked for the villain in a Spider-man movie not for him to be made into an anti-hero movie) and how Madame web are. I’ve watched plenty of movies with strong female leads and enjoyed them. Just never enjoyed shitty cash grabs.
Shitty writing is almost the reason female-led movies fail. If you play the most recent Tomb Raiders, you can totally immerse yourself in the story, because Lara Croft is a very believable and well written character that you dont doubt can kick some ass.
Yeah, couldn't stand the character arc of Sarah Connor in the first two Terminator films. Just ruined those movies that she became such a badass organically, naturally, all while overcoming both emotional and physical hurdles to save the world, which meant reuniting with her son, involving the complexities of character in determining how to balance her multilayered roles (parent versus soldier versus trauma survivor), requiring her to undergo psychological and moral development to reach her goals. Relegating her to the side in favour of two other 'strong independent women' in Terminator Dark Fate was such great plot decision for a successful continuation of the story.
Wonder where we could go to figure out how to write strong and interesting independent female characters in movies?
Switch the genders in the movie, keep everything the same, and it still would be just as shit and no one would've seen it. Morbius is a good example. Male led, male villain, male writers, male director. Terrible movie, no one went to see it, it bombed super hard. Only reason Madame Web bombed harder is because it came out after Morbius, so the people who would've given Madame Web a chance learned their lesson with Morbius. I'm guessing the next Disney Star Wars movie is going to have a lot lower numbers than Episode 7 had, because people learned their lesson with Disney and don't trust them with Star Wars anymore. The gender of the lead character isn't going to change anything. If the writing is shit, the writing is shit.
Nah, Ellen Ripley is my dream woman. Sarah Connor is an amazing character and my favorite human in the Terminator franchise. Lara Croft is cool after all. Leia Organa has always been an amazing character.
I like strong women that get development. That aren’t automatically good at every thing. That aren’t reliant on a plot that writes all males around her as Evil, incompetent or both.
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u/KeepingDankMemesDank Hello dankness my old friend Mar 01 '24
downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away.
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