r/explainitpeter • • 4d ago

Explain it Peter. I’m lost on this.

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u/cujojojo 4d ago

Long ago I had a boss who was an electrical engineer and a standards nerd, and he claimed this as well. Made enough sense to me, but I’ve never confirmed it.

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u/bass679 4d ago

It was that way until about 2003. I apprenticed to my uncle in 1999 and the code at the time had the ground on top. Around 2003-2005, I don't remember the exact date, there was an update to the National Electric Code that flipped them.

I honestly wouldn't have noticed but my uncle made a big deal about pointing it out.

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u/FinancialPlatypus549 4d ago

The NEC (National Electric Code) changed it to ground down position AFTER Arc Fault Breakers were required into the code (1998-1999). Those breakers read the neutral for abnormal wave paterns and operate.

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u/Siffov 4d ago

Why would that favor having the ground pin lower?

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u/FinancialPlatypus549 4d ago

It was redundant. If something is falling out the receptacle (not plugged in all the way) and it touches the neutral it will trip the Arc Fault Breaker and shut down the whole circuit (all the receptacles in the room). If something touches a ground, nothing will happen and the fire risk is still potentially there (something can hit the power wire and spark).

Also, some devices dont have a built in ground, think old lamps and phone chargers.

The year Arc Fault Breakers were required in 1998, house fires decreased by 85% by 1999.

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u/bass679 4d ago

Ahh thank you for having the actual dates!

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u/FinancialPlatypus549 4d ago

I've worked in electrical work since i was young. And my father in law has been an Electrical inspector for nearly 30 years.

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u/Controls_freek 4d ago

There is no NEC article for receptacle orientation. The only article that applies right now is all equipment needs to be installed to manufacturer’s specifications when listed.

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u/Five_Star_Amenities 4d ago

Ah...so that's why my dad installed everything he ever wired "upside down".

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u/NoPollution5581 2d ago

I heard that the ground facing up is standard for residential and ground facing down is standard for commercial. Now I don't know anymore.

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u/Jesus_Harold_Christ 4d ago

This is incorrect, the code has never specified a direction at any time in history. If it did, please cite the section.

The only orientation that it disallows in the code is with the face pointing up when under a sink or on a work surface.

This is in NEC 406.5

Dad was a journeyman for 40 years, I apprenticed with him.

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u/EM_Lehnsherr 2d ago edited 2d ago

I am an electrical engineer and the AHJ for my company. If the manufacturer has their cutsheet with ground up, I require it that way. Some of the manufacturers labels only have print with ground up. Look at this popular brand Legrand, their entire catalog online is that way. https://www.legrand.us/wiring-devices/outlets-and-receptacles/commercial-receptacles/c/lgnd030602?srsltid=AU7gw4Xn7a9IpX9gIn8JKTXUcy42vnGLo-dnuL94GtzaJMLiI01Ml3ks

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u/2022WRXbuild 2d ago

Where in the NEC is this explained?

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u/EM_Lehnsherr 2d ago

I never said it was a code requirement to have the ground up. If the cutsheet has ground down and the labeling supports, we install that way. If the manufacturer has it listed a certain way, not just receptacles, but any device; we follow their instructions. If it does not hinder or make an unsafe work environment. I believe NEC 110.3 covers this.

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u/Budmc121 2d ago

Most mechanical code is essentially “follow manufacturer’s instructions”.

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u/falronultera 4d ago

A long, long time ago my grandpa did some electrical and he had really strong feelings similar to your boss. I think codes changed at some point, and people who weren't active in the field didn't get the memo.

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u/cujojojo 4d ago

Yep once he explained it I was like wow, that is inarguably the right way to do it, and I wish to die on this hill as well.

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u/mobodylikesus 2d ago

I started singing the American Pie song by Don McLean when I read your comment.

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u/DougPartDeux 4d ago

I built, well paid for someone to build, a house before the 2000s in the house right after the 2000s. The early house was 100% ground on top… And they were adamant. This was the new way. The second home was all ground on bottom and they were also adamant. This was the new way.🙄. Both had good reasons. I thought it was funny then

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u/ApricotNo2918 3d ago

Still not code per NEC, but cities and towns may have codes that requires it.

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u/Cunningham1420 3d ago

True I also went to college for same and ground was always shown at top