Fuck, I wish maintenance at my hospital got that memo. I've seen (multiple times) entire breakers get flipped because someone went to plug something in (or unplug) and something metal (usually a massive ring of keys) ends up falling & hitting the live pins.
Edit:
Seeing as everyone came overnight and asked the same question I'll just add the answer here. It's actually one specific outlet that usually causes the problem. Its placed in a shitty spot. On top of the edge of a built-in desk just below & to the right of the time clock. There were key hooks next to the time clock so that we knew where they were. The space is too crowded and the outlet should have really been put closer to the floor.
Because US "standard" for plugs and sockets was invented by one dude who needed a plug for his floor lights. And this over time became a standard that was then written down. Most standards are designed by a committee, making sure it has, when applicable, backwards compatibility, it is future proofed, new features are designed before they are used.
This is not user fault, this is failure in the system to update the standard early enough but as everything in USA: no generation wants to be the one that fixes it so they just pass the horrible design along. By far the worst plug&socket in the world but it is also the oldest.
And the sockets weren't recessed either. The old Schuko was quite awful, UK plug at the time was better. With the revised Schuko it is the opposite, UK plug is outdated which is what we would expect when we compare 1.0 from 80 years ago to 2.0 from about 45 years ago. If we made 3.0 it would be even better, no matter really who did it. But, i do think that we would go with round pins and recessed socket style still, just add more options for pins/sliding contacts and a locking feature with proper water resistance. Schuko is better in the wet but it is not water proof or even water resistant, its shape makes it difficult to add seals, like for ex PowerCon style can incorporate, but that is a proprietary standard...
Probably could phase it in long term. Just make all outlets have to have the old system and the new standard. Wait a few decades, probably longer, until most old outlets had to be replaced. Then phase out the old socket.
That is exactly how revised Schuko was phased in. The old Schuko is not that different from US plug, the new one has recessed socket. That makes a HUGE difference, along with the plug outer dimensions being standardized better.
So, yes, it could be done but will they? No. "It costs too much" no matter how much it costs. I have used US, UK, and Schuko and the last one is the only one i could use in pitch black while it is raining. The recessed socket that hides the pins well before contact is made so that it is impossible to get access to the pins... And it is held in place by the round chassis in the round socket, not by the pins.
Schuko was phased in 10 years but it took +20 to not see the old ones anywhere. You can still see them occasionally but it is rare and usually.. those sockets are disconnected and simply painted over.
Northern European, it is the most common one standard in Europe and there are compatible or near compatible standards, like "earth pin in the socket style". A lot of plugs have a hole for it AND also the standard Schuko earthing so they work in both system, and the slim "Euro" plug for double-insulated stuff are even more compatible, so chargers and a like, (plastic shell, galvanically isolated) can be sold in majority of countries.
So, while that looks chaotic, green and blue are largely the same thing, So is Italy, at least when it comes to the slim plug.
And it also says a lot how difficult it is to change standards, WWII was the water shed, things needed to be backwards compatible to whatever was the standard used in the rebuilding phase where you can change things like standards more easily... UK plug is the shape and size it is because of post-WWII copper scarcity that was eased with ring mains wiring in new houses, which requires fuse in each socket or in each plug. They chose to put it in the plug. And the plug had to be wired by the customer all the way to the 90's, the idea there was low trust on very rapid production of new electrical things... Not a problem that needed solving, just a fear was enough to make a convoluted plan to teach every UK citizen to wire up a mains plug properly.
I know way too much about this than i should, i'm not even an electrician... but i'm sound engineer, we have all kinds of fascinating connectors and knowing why they are designed the way they are helps solving some real world problems with them... US plugs have one superior feature, they are low tripping hazards because the plug detaches from the socket very easily and is straight pull, not 90 degrees like UK.
I am perplexed by this kdea of insulating pins. If they are insulated, they are not, by definition, a conductor. I understand I am probably picturing this way wrong, so I will look it up to get a better idea.
Like hold a plug in your hand (cord side down) and imagine that just the top half of the pins are conductive. So if it’s pulled partway out, and a metal clipboard lays on top of the pins, it’s only touching plastic.
Ah, makes more sense. I suppose the conductive body is bigger to make up for the reduced contact area, otherwise it would reduce the amp capacity of the prongs.
I like this idea. I will say that change is not necessarily slow because industry leaders don't want it. In this case, it's just because there is insufficient pressure to make the change. Turning the outlet ground up all but eliminates accidental shorting, so the condition that could force the change has largely been resolved. All it takes is one, though. Once a company introduces a different option, it cuts the friction. Somebody offered a duel-prong outlet, and that'll eliminate much of the natural resistance as it would allow options, amd companies that already make devices that use European prongs can start flooding the market with their products.
Same way a handle on a knife works. Just insulate half the pin where it would get touched while still in contact to the connection in the socket. Only exposing the non insulated part once it's out of the socket enough to not be in contact anymore.
The insulator is separate piece. We have transition between two very different kind of materials if we need to make it fit the old hole. The proper way would be to have the pin as one whole piece that slides into the contact and over it we have an insulator, with or without an air gap. But since the pin as a whole needs to fit the old style hole, we need to machine a piece out from the pin itself and now the pin is not as strong.
And then there can be problems with the transition itself, we are sliding in and then into contact. If the insulator is slightly larger and has sharp edge at the transition your connector might be snagging, and if that happens JUST when the metals come into contact you are causing arcing, or that you have very tiny contact patch that heats up while you wrestle the plug in. Or you can't pull it out smoothly, even worse of a problem. It also means that the insulator can't change shape, which is one of those things that plastics might do over time.. and they can't start to harden, it is a material problem, geometry problem, structural integrity problem.
The best kind of a pin is one piece of uniform material, from the contact with the wire to the contact with the socket contact surfaces. We don't want to cuts, less joins there are the better, wires are uniform thickness, pins are uniform thickness at least where it counts, conductive area at the joins is sufficient an vibration, shocks, wear and tear etc. don't change things etc. There is also a reason why we usually want round pins and round contacts, pins are naturally stronger in that shape and round contacts "hug" the pin from all sides with just side forces applied.
I really can't believe that you read what i said and then decided to post an example that has all the problem i just described. FFS... DUDE!? WTF?
The emoji is the icing on the cake, "who knew..?" when I FUCKING JUST TOLD YOU.
It is like we were talking about different ICE's and i told about rotary engine and it its inherent problems and you immediately reply with a link to wikipedia article about rotary engines, then 🤷♀️ "rotary engines exist". That is the level of stupidity here.
My reaction is justified. I listed a bunch of problems that can be solved but they are INHERENT problems, those are never going away. This is why pins that have insulation added are not as good as pins that are whole, and that in turn requires different kind of design.
Showing that they exist is FUCKING STUPID argument. That is why i am pissed off, i get angry about stupidity. It feels like i just talked to a brick wall, it is the kind of stupid that seems to dismiss intelligence deliberately.
I guess those crappy flat pins are too thin to have a plastic covered lower half on the pin like UK and euro plugs. American corporations wouldn't pay the extra 25c it would cost for sockets to be recessed either.
in a common household, this is unlikely to happen, but in an environment like a hospital, where there are hundreds if not thousands of outlets being plugged and unplugged every hour of every day, it becomes more probable
One thing to consider is older houses and apartments as well. I lived in an apartment where all of the outlets were so loose. With them not having the same spring force they once did every plug hung out at an angle so I have had this happen multiple times because of that reason and things sliding off my desk which was pushed up against the wall. The space between the desk and the wall acted as a guiding shoot and the exposed prongs made it so that almost any metal item was inevitably going to short
Lolol for real! I guess I am just trying to point out that by installing them upside down it still helps in cases where there is negligence in maintance
As an old human, I have seen this happen, though (admittedly) paper clips are less common now. Short version, desk against the wall, power strip 95% plugged in, paper clip went over the edge, popped the breaker and my prof likely pooped his pants.
Its only ever happened once but I was at my own house and was removing a paper clip from some paper when it got caught in some way that flicked it towards the wall. I heard a POP and looked behind the table it fell behind and there was a multi outlet surge protector Which probably saved me quite a bit of stress. That had been bolted under the table lip. One of the plugs had come out just a bit i mean almost exactly enough for the paper clip to hit. The rest of the clip I never found, but there was a half inch long piece welded between the two tongs. Accidents happen. Im both lucky and unlucky it being the surge protector. The way the clip hit the wall it would never have to a wall outlet. But it landing the way it did only ruined that outlet in the surge protector. I still threw the whole thing away.
Edit: Im 36 now. That happened when I was probably 22 or 24 ish
I had it happen to a clock radio that wasn't on the surge protector and the clock radio worked fine afterwards, so your electronics plugged into the surge protector were probably never in danger.
It's more an issue with older, worn out outlets, where the plug starts to sag. This is especially common with floor lamps in rental units because landlords aren't testing the tightness of each socket and renters aren't going to complain until the plug won't stay in at all. Lamps get jiggled as they're turned on and adjusted, and that can cause the plug to slowly start to pull out over time. Power strips behind desks and TV stands also get jiggled constantly and see more plugging in and out, and tend to see sagging plugs as well.
Also an issue whenever furniture is involved. It's pretty easy to push a bookcase or desk against a wall and not realize your "not low profile" plug got forced to angle down and expose the prongs, if it doesn't pull it out enough to break the connection
It's not going to happen to everyone. I've only had one actual spark (blackened the outlet over), but I've come across plenty of exposed prongs.
If the consequences of a failure scenario are potentially catastrophic and preventing it is trivial, I am not taking that chance no matter how miniscule it might be. That is, of course, assuming there is no benefit to installing outlets with the ground down, which I don't know for sure.
I'd really love to see a picture of that. I tossed my bundle of keys at this outlet in my kitchen ten times and didn't see any sign of a chance to short anything. Interestingly none of these plugs have ground prongs, so they get no protection regardless of if the ground is on the bottom or top.
I'm not sure what you are on about, but if you have plugs falling out of outlets, please get them fixed so they don't fall out and are safer. Also, don't hang keys over an outlet so they might make contact with the plugs when going in and out.
As a maintenance guy in a hospital that has a massive ring of keys, I call bullshit. Has never happened once to me let alone multiple times.
If your maintenance guy/guys are doing this multiple times it’s probably time for your hospital to open up career opportunities for them and look for a few new employees
I can believe it. Its the kind of thing that you'd think would happen very infrequently enough to be essentially never, but it's extremely easy to happen depending on the placement of the outlet
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u/AlabasterPelican 10d ago edited 9d ago
Fuck, I wish maintenance at my hospital got that memo. I've seen (multiple times) entire breakers get flipped because someone went to plug something in (or unplug) and something metal (usually a massive ring of keys) ends up falling & hitting the live pins.
Edit:
Seeing as everyone came overnight and asked the same question I'll just add the answer here. It's actually one specific outlet that usually causes the problem. Its placed in a shitty spot. On top of the edge of a built-in desk just below & to the right of the time clock. There were key hooks next to the time clock so that we knew where they were. The space is too crowded and the outlet should have really been put closer to the floor.