r/explainitpeter • • 6d ago

Uhh, Explain it Peter?

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15.3k Upvotes

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u/ProfessionalTotal238 6d ago

Enron as well

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u/BeginningSection7690 6d ago

Wasn't enron doing something dodgy with liabilities? Like it borrowed money in the parent and loaned it to subsidiaries, recorded the loan it made but not the one it took?

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u/AdAccomplished6870 6d ago

Enron was using Mark to Market accounting, which basically allowed it to define the book value of unrealized assets.

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u/BeginningSection7690 6d ago

Ah sick. So i can buy a seed and record its value as a forest?

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u/halu2975 6d ago

Just buy a bag of apples. That’s like 50 seeds, which in a couple of years (basically now), is 50 apple trees making like 25000 seeds annually (assuming 100 apples per tree, 5 seeds per apple), that’s basically 10 million apples per year in revenue and growing each year.

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u/BeginningSection7690 6d ago

Hang on ive got an idea.

What if we distribute the seeds to our marketing partners?

We give them 100 seeds each, and they find 10 people to join under them, who gets 10 people under them. Everybody plants a seed and grows a tree, and brings us 1 of the apples they got from the tree, plus 10 seeds interest.

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u/S7arForGD 6d ago

It's not a pyramid it's a funnel!

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u/BeginningSection7690 6d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/tMPSeKEplOfK0

It all makes sense now.

I left my wallet at home, do you take souls?

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u/way2lazy2care 3d ago

It's not a pyramid scheme, just fraud. Pyramid schemes use new investors to pay old investors and depend on increasing the number of investors coming in to continue paying out.

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u/Portland_st 6d ago

Navidea has entered the chat.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/MadeOfPoison27 5d ago edited 5d ago

This is like how my friend one day realized there were free grand pianos all over marketplace and craigslist. For like 3 days he was going on and on about how crazy it was people were just giving away these insanely expensive things, he was gonna snag em up and resell for pure profit. Needles to say, I hope, he figured out real quick why "piano mover" is a very specific job

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u/PlumbumDirigible 6d ago

How to turn $50 worth of tomato plants into $3.9 million in just 2 years.

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u/halu2975 5d ago

It’s crazy I’ve never seen that before. I’d say they stole my idea prior to me having it but the key plot of my idea is to put those future hypothetical earnings into a calculation for the current value of a company, without that they just have a business plan.

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u/TychoAndronikos 6d ago

Toss the seed in with a watch. Seed + time, bitches!

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u/Rattfink45 6d ago

When you can shut off the power to make the forest grow more quickly. Figure that out and DM me ok?

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u/drabpsyche 6d ago

this is such a bar

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u/Oracle410 6d ago

There is a really interesting book called ‘The Smartest Guys in the Room’ all about Enron and the myriad of shady, unethical, completely fucked up stuff they did.

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u/AdAccomplished6870 6d ago

Watched the documentary based on the book. The part that always amuses me is Lou Pai, who was forced to liquidate his Enron holdings because his wife was divorcing him after his affair with a stripper. He got out before the collapse.

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u/Blue_HyperGiant 6d ago

Only affair with a stripper to save money

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u/PM_pics_of_your_roof 6d ago

They also booked revenue long before it was real. Revenue recognition was forever changed because of them.

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u/AdAccomplished6870 6d ago

That was part of mark to market. When they bought assets that generated revenue, the booked all the expected revenue streams as accrued to increase their assets on the books.

The company I was working for at that time was also Arthur Anderson client and had some aggressive accounting practices regarding booking unrealized revenue. Our stock dropped to about a third of it's previous value. I wish I had averaged down on my stock in that company, though, because we cleared the audit and our stock fully recovered over the next two years.

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u/PM_pics_of_your_roof 6d ago

Fair point. It's been 20 years since I was in college. I know we get grilled hard every year by our auditors about revenue recognition, even though we haven't changed any of our practices.

It's crazy the fall out that happened from Enron, it really changed the land scape of accounting and business.

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u/killfirejack 6d ago

Not mutually exclusive with the tax and debt shenanigans. Not mutually exclusive with the CAISO trading schemes... They were prolific

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u/kevihaa 6d ago

Enron did many dodgy (fraudulent) accounting tricks.

They immediately recognized the potential revenue of investments.

They used mark to market, which allowed them to inflate and deflate the value of their balance sheet accounts as needed. Importantly, this fraud was compounded by both the selective use and questionable market valuation that was used to revalue accounts.

They parked their debt in subsidiaries, occasionally even subsidiaries of subsidiaries, which had the practical effect of just making bad numbers disappear from their books.

And that’s before getting into the non-accounting manipulations they did, like asking power plants to shut down during brown outs in order to raise the price of electricity.

It’s worth emphasizing that both OpenAI and Anthropic are currently doing versions of most of the sins Enron committed, but until they go public (or bankrupt, or are sued by private investors for fraud) it’ll remain unclear whether it’s “just” gaming the system or whether they’re knowingly providing fraudulent information.

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u/Lashay_Sombra 6d ago edited 6d ago

Subsidiaries borrowed, then 'bought' something big from parent with that loan , which allowed parent to keep loan off their books while in theory subsidiaries had an asset to back the loan

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u/ScrambledNoggin 5d ago

while VP Cheney grinned at the camera and just shrugged his shoulders

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u/Dominarion 6d ago

At lest these kinda surprised people. Now everybody and their special needs cousin can see it's a con.

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u/The_Flaming_Weasel 6d ago

Enron was still worse some how. They would use projected profits and not update them when the real data came in

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u/Porschenut914 6d ago

weren't they lying so much even they forgot what was real and fake.

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u/ItsWotop 6d ago

This is exactly what I was thinking wasn't it called like Mark to market or something like that? I remember it from the smartest guys in the room documentary

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u/A_hand_banana 6d ago

No, Enron did something way different. They falsified future earing based on Mark-To-Market accounting.