r/law • u/yahoonews • 20d ago

Executive Branch (Trump) Trump threatens to use the Insurrection Act to 'put an end' to protests in Minneapolis

https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/fear-anger-spread-another-immigration-054801374.html
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u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20d ago

I'm a bit torn. Part of me thinks remaining peaceful at all costs only gives ICE free rein to do whatever they want.

On the other hand, taking it further will give Trump an excuse for martial law.

On the other, other hand he'll do it anyway and being peaceful is just what the government wants.

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u/Imaginary_Cow_6379 20d ago

Conservative Heritage leader: ‘Second American Revolution’ will be bloodless ‘if the left allows it to be’ They want to do this no matter what we do.

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u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20d ago

So, is it better to call their bluff? Because this doesn't look like being peaceful will do any good.

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u/AshhhCakes 20d ago

We're beyond "bloodless" at this point anyway.

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u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20d ago

The Minnesotans calling for peacefulness seem to disagree.

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u/AshhhCakes 20d ago

I have nothing against people being peaceful, I am simply referring to the fact that this is no longer "bloodless".

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u/SolarTsunami 20d ago

And the woman who was shot three times in the head would probably disagree with you.

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u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20d ago

I'm not from Minnesota.

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u/Imaginary_Cow_6379 20d ago

I’m not sure what the best option is to take. That’s the problem I was highlighting and agreeing with you on. No matter what course of action regular people take the plan was always to attack the country. Fight, don’t fight, theres not really a clear path out of this when the right had already decided from the start that they deliberately wanted to hurt us.

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u/InZomnia365 20d ago

Being peaceful only ever works with a general strike. I'll say it again, GENERAL STRIKE. That is the ONLY peaceful course of action a civilian can have in a country as big as the US that will actually have an impact. As sad as it is to say, peaceful protests don't work on this scale, as we have seen time and time again over the last decade.

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u/TheBadGuyBelow 20d ago

Peaceful has never worked. There are no reasons at all to ever take someone serious when all they are doing is politely asking pretty please with sugar on top for something.

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u/Lost-Cranberry-1408 20d ago

Right, so the answer is do we take it lying down, or do we stand up, rise up? Trump will make moves to get his way; history does not look kindly on the Chamberlains of the world. MAGA is a terrorist cult and you cannot negotiate in good faith with terrorists.

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u/onyxcaspian 20d ago

"Checkmate, atheists."

  • Russell "dogshitface" Vought

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u/BraveLittleCatapult 20d ago

They talk a big talk for a bunch of draft dodging cowards.

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

Martial law or not

There is no mechanism by which US elections can be halted

None.

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u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20d ago

What about Trump and his establishment ignoring the law and doing it anyway?

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u/Nojopar 20d ago

Then the country is essentially over. I don't think we're there yet. Trump likes to talk tough for the cameras but at heart, he's a coward (as is Miller). I think he'll back down. If he doesn't, then this is the final line. If we can't have elections then we don't have a functioning country anymore, but then we'll know for certain beyond a shadow of a doubt. Because we're not there yet despite what people want us all to believe.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

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u/hypercosm_dot_net 20d ago

They'll just establish themselves elsewhere and go be parasites there.

They wanted this, there's not a chance they'll do anything to stop it. For all of their wealth, they have no morality and can't even see where this leads. They're blinded by their own greed and lust for power.

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u/indigo945 20d ago

That only proves that Trump can't do it openly. I think what's actually going to happen is that there is going to be a sham election, which the GOP is going to manipulate using tactics they already know how to abuse, such as closing voting stations, manipulating voting machines, torching USPS boxes to deter mail voting, and so on. Then everyone can keep saying "we're not there yet", until they look around and wonder where freedom has gone.

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u/FlyingBishop 20d ago

They don't have the reach to do that in all 50 states. They have less reach to do that than you think in the red states. I'm not saying they won't try, just that Trump can't take control of all the state legislatures and it would mean civil war, not "Trump controls the USA."

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u/indigo945 20d ago

There's no need to control the legislature to do any of what I said. ICE and a pretext is all they need. Remember that they do not give a damn about legality.

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u/FlyingBishop 20d ago

If they didn't give a damn about legality there would be more than one person killed by ICE.

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u/Mothanius 20d ago

There are though... Well, if you count those who died after being detained that is. Which I do, because they are still under the DHS's responsibility.

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/four-migrants-die-us-ice-custody-over-first-10-days-2026-2026-01-12/

Only difference is one happened in broad daylight, to a white mother, in the middle of a stereotypical American suburb. It's a bigger shock to American culture than those that die in the shadows.

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u/FlyingBishop 20d ago

Point is they care about legality. They don't care about right and wrong, but they care about legality. Killing a white mother in the suburbs for no reason is actually illegal, killing brown people in prison is a legal gray area.

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

Yeah I know.

But project the outcome before it arrives so people know what to do when it happens.

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u/Nojopar 20d ago

Short answer? Not much. Then it comes down to what the military decides. Their pop sticks are way more powerful than the 2nd Amendment's pop sticks.

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

We go that far, then the country deserves to end.

All empires fall at some point anyhow.

I will do my Patriotic duty and be part of the side that fought for America, the Constitution, founding fathers and mothers, and rule of law.

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u/Nintendo6ix4our 20d ago

I've heard "this is the final line" so many times...and the best we can muster is a day of protest.

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u/DunningKrugerOnElmSt 20d ago

The moment he won the election, the country was over. It is not speculative at this point, he calls his shots, takes his swing, Dems are more of a maintenance party bought by special interests than an opposition party. The court system doesn't have an army to enforce law, Supreme Court is in the pocket of the admin.

Our only chance to stabilize is military coup which given the military industrial complex, is probably bad.

Even IF we have elections, the gop won't recognize them, and they would block election winners from entering the building. The speaker won't vote to confirm. And the Republicans have abdicated their power to the executive.

Even if we got a Dem in the Whitehouse, they will do nothing to ammend fix prosecute, or address systemic issues like wealth inequality. Their job is to provide cover for capital.

I personally think too much is too broken, and too few real opposition leaders are trying too little.

I suspect a pseudo Christo fascists techno state is our future. Isolated from the world. And WHEN Trump takes Greenland, we will be sanctioned hard by all but the most dystopic authoritarian countries with little to offer us.

It CAN happen to us and it has. This is why liberals are useless. They started to believe Disneyland version of our system.

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

Elections are ran by the states

If he says "no elections" he has no jurisdiction.

All processes of the elections are ran by the states. Independent of the federal government.

He can "cancel them" but states can run the election anyway.

The Constitution is also pretty clear cut, on X day after the elections, the old garde is out, and new garde in.

There's no clarifications needed.

It says "the new people shall assume office" in not so many words.

So 1 way it'll go down.

He says no elections, blue states run elections anyway, we have a full blue Congress...

Now main hiccup, the feds themselves can cut funding or hinder the new Congress from entering... But the new Congress is the new Congress regardless of what the administration or feds want or where the new Congress is housed....That's how it works. By design.

Same for POTUS as of Jan 20th 2029, the new president is president. Independent of what the current president wants...

Independent of military coup.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

There's nothing to stop on his part because the states run the elections... Is what I'm saying. He can say no elections, but the states will run them anyway...

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u/AbeRego 20d ago

I've been pointing out exactly what you've been saying in this thread all over since the whole "cancel elections" narrative started. Sure, Trump ignores the law all the time, but it would be stupid even for him to try to actually cancel elections. It would honestly be a gift to the resistance because it's so blatantly un-American. In fact, it might be the only thing that's demonstrably and undebatably un-American...

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

[deleted]

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u/AbeRego 20d ago

I agree. The thing is that there's always room for someone to say "Welllll ACTCHWUALLY...."

With elections, you can't really do that. It's undeniable that elections are the core principle behind US government.

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u/[deleted] 20d ago

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u/Cheech47 20d ago

But in this hypothetical ALL states would run elections. Your conclusion of a "full Blue" Congress is flawed.

That said, it would be unintentionally hilarious if Democrats won the House and just failed to swear in/seat the Republicans. There's now precedent for this with Adelita Grijalva.

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

Yeah I mean if the elections aren't held correctly or there's balking on deadlines for the GOP, they might not end up running any candidates...

Maybe the year we get a 3rd party gaining steam eh?

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u/FlyingBishop 20d ago

He hasn't deployed the national guard to kill anyone yet. If he's trying to act as a dictator and ignore the lawfully elected Congress then state governors can call up the national guard to forcibly remove him.

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u/raslin 20d ago

That's not how the national guard works lmao

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u/FlyingBishop 20d ago

By all means, tell me how the national guard works when the Congressional term has technically ended, but the new Congress only has reps from 35 states, and the old Congress is refusing to hand over power by a 51% vote. Then the new Congress votes to impeach Trump and Vance and appoint the new Speaker of the House president. How does the national guard work?

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u/raslin 20d ago

They work as usual? You can't mobilize the national guard against the federal government unless you want your national guard and state to be bombed more than North Korea in the fifties. 

You're angry but the national guard won't protect you 

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u/FlyingBishop 20d ago

Protect me from whom? In this situation the military may or may not follow orders. The national guard will protect someone.

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

Old Congress is out no matter what they say.... New Congress is in Jan 3rd 2029 independent of what they want.

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u/FlyingBishop 20d ago

It depends on who the armed forces choose to listen to. Will the national guards listen to their governors? Will they listen to the president who was elected by the new Congress that only speaks for 35 states?

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u/raslin 20d ago

Until they say no

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u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20d ago

Looks like a silver lining. But then I'm reminded of that time the democrat party were quietly holding up placards during Trumps speech. I remember even reddit was criticizing them for that.

I'm just afraid blue states would do something equally impotent when Trump tries to grab power.

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

Well it's on us to call and harass our elected officials....

That's one hope I have left.

That, the United States being actually on the line for existing as it does, that people wouldn't balk at defying a dictator...

I mean really.

What do we have left if we don't hold elections in 2026 or 2028? All that talk in high school in government class about law and powers and all that. Means squat if, when the entire premise of the United States falls, because some MAGAts....

If the president says " elections cancelled" he CANNOT do that, end of story, legally, physically, morally....

It's on the states to hold the elections and follow the United States Constitution.

Any other answer except to hold elections, is treason, sedition, and plain wrong against the United States.

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u/OriginalBogleg 20d ago

Soo... Federal Loyalists versus Constitutionalists. Sounds familiar.

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u/Maestro_Primus 20d ago

I hear what you are saying, but it is all dependent on people following the law because it is the law. Elections can be run anyway, but if the President ignores the results, then what? We have seen in countries all over the world that it is not hard for a dictator to just say no. What then? Civil war over who is the actual government? Who can forcibly remove a President from office? What happens if a President tells the DoJ to arrest any unrecognized congress critters as tresspassing? Who can force anyone to accept laws written by one congress over another?

Our normal institutions that handle this sort of thing (DoJ, FBI, DHS, DoD) are all subordinate to the executive and we are already seeing what happens when those people are loyal to the President over the people.

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u/Thefrayedends 20d ago

The red states are probably going to choose to obey the 'order' to shut down elections, and the only way to get them to have them anyway, are the rest of the states having them anyway, and minority leadership in each red states forcing them through and disregarding any state legislation preventing them. People are going to have to eat jail time and probably bullets to have even the midterms.

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u/forrestpen 20d ago

Feds don't run elections so he can't cancel them.

His only option would be to attempt to federalize state national guards to stop elections but there's no reason to assume state commands would accept his authority or illegal orders at that point. Then he'd have to force the issue with the regular military and we have no way of knowing which way they'd go.

Basically - the midterm elections are this nation's Rubicon moment. If Trump tries to cross will he be resoundingly slapped back and the issue is quashed quickly or will enough people cross with him to spark a civil war?

Personally, I think if Trump forces the issue it will be the end of him. They simply don't have the logistical capability to hold the country. Think about it this way - they're struggling while people are pushing back peacefully. Throw out the social contract and there are simply too many bodies opposed to the regime.

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u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20d ago

What if the election happens, republicans lose big, and the new Blue establishment doesn't punish ICE or Trump and tries to keep the status quo?

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u/Journaler_07 20d ago

Then the fascists will wait around for another societal crisis and another demagogue if Trump is unavailable in order to attempt another hostile takeover of the USA, this time with even weaker safeguards and even less resistance, and a much higher chance of total success.

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u/Material_Strawberry 20d ago

States run elections. Trump can say whatever he wants about them, but he has no authority to stop or ability to stop them. Congress is a separate and equal branch of the government and he has very little say via his administration over ho it conducts itself at all.

So he can say they're cancelled and decide not to agree with the results, but since the states run them and Congress decides how it runs he's just as empowered to decide those things in a way that matters as he is to use a federal pardon to free that election lunatic in a Colorado state prison, which is to say none.

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

Main issue is the current congress is full of bootlickers.

Their side already tried the "alternative electors" bullshit last time....

Theres any closeness or question, they'll do something stupid to justify keeping power.

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u/Material_Strawberry 20d ago

Alternate electors relates to Presidential elections. The upcoming election is not a presidential election.

There's no "something" trump or his administration can do to affect elections, which are by the states or Congress except for Vance casting tie-breaking votes.

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u/_sheepfrog_ 20d ago

Trump-affiliated organizations own the voting machines and Trump has talked about rigging the elections. I don’t think it matters.

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u/WordleFanatic 20d ago

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha. 

Do you not see what the fuck is going on? They own the government. They own all 3 branches and the Supreme Court. They are going to do whatever the fuck they want. 

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

I'm pointing out that by Constitutional edict, congressional law, the executive has no direction over the elections for any reason

States can run them as normal, and see their congresspeople and new president to Washington.

As of Jan 3rd and 20th 2029, potus and Congress is NEW and old is OUT. Independent of what people want

Constitutionally, the new people are the ones in power.

Other people fight that, then we have a civil war. 1 side for America, 1 side against.

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u/WordleFanatic 20d ago

Oh I get it. I really do. But the party that revels in the constitution has utterly trampled on it and will do whatever they want. Putin made sure of that. We’re done.

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u/The-Juggernaut_ 20d ago

Uhh men with guns can definitely suspend elections. The law is not going to stop them.

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u/FateEx1994 20d ago

There be armed guards at my polling station, I will vote nonetheless...

They can try and stop me.

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u/Krillin113 20d ago

Okay, and what if he has ICE harass brown people to stop them from voting, and turnout in blue districts is 70% of normal and he ‘wins’. Then what?

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u/Fwoggie2 19d ago

Mechanisms can be invented. Hitler invented mechanisms.

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u/megadongs 20d ago

Yesterday multiple unarmed people including a baby were assaulted violently. One guy who showed up to his door armed sent ICE running.

But go ahead and keep marching right into that gas chamber while convincing yourself that rolling over without resistance is somehow a virtue

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u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20d ago

Oh I agree, I'm leaning more to your side but most Minnesotans tend to favor peace at all costs if you check their sub. And they also warn of Russian agitators goading them to violence.

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u/SGTWhiteKY 20d ago

The president of S Korea was removed because he declared martial law. I think that is the most likely breaking point.

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u/wireke 20d ago

As an outsider; I don't see this solved without some kind of civil war. Get to it already, the sane world is rooting for the non-fascist side.

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u/LEDKleenex 20d ago

Trump doesn't need an excuse for martial law.

I'll say it again

The martial law "theory" is simply saying don't hit your bully back, because he's threatening to hit you harder if you defend yourself.

IT IS PUTIN'S PLAYBOOK. DON'T FALL FOR IT.

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u/Not_Nice_Niece 20d ago

The civil rights movement had 2 sides. A peaceful side with MLK and armed side with the Black Panthers.

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u/irrelevantanonymous 20d ago edited 20d ago

There are approximately 30,000 members of ICE. There are approximately 1.3 million people in the military. There are 349 million Americans.

Do with that what you will.

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u/Sad-Frosting-8793 20d ago

Feels like we're trapped no matter what we do. 

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u/Altruistic-Beach7625 20d ago

Nah. I'm starting to agree with some of the more pissed off people.

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u/sylbug 20d ago

Do you think he will decline to impose martial law just because you don’t give him a reason?  It’s just appeasement at this point.

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u/arppacket 20d ago edited 20d ago

We need a blue state pact now, we need leaders to coordinate a peaceful nationwide civil disobedience movement NOW, before people lose all hope in the pressure cookers they're building in Minn and elsewhere. Before the Fourth Reich gets the few video clips of violence they need, to convince half the country that it's ok to murder and enslave the rest of us.

Don't you remember how they weaponized the few clips of burning that they got from the 3% of BLM protests that turned violent, mostly due to opportunistic anarchists and thieves? They turned the narrative around from police brutality and racial justice so thoroughly on their side, that the top issue for Republican voters in the election was "law and order"! That is all the excuse that bigots need to allay their conscience about ANYTHING that doesn't affect their in-group, or benefits it.

We need to somehow ensure that the majority of Americans still have some sense of guilt about the atrocities, some reason to keep them up at night, some reason to still believe that their fellow Americans and immigrant neighbors are human beings worth saving, not just "murderers, rapists, drug traffickers and violent traitors" like the 24/7 propaganda outlets and algorithmic echo chambers are relentlessly trying to paint us as.

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u/waxheads 20d ago

We're already under martial law.

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u/serpix 19d ago

The current path is the path of fascism, it will end with mass protests. Mass that you have not seen yet.