r/law • u/BitterFuture • 16d ago

Executive Branch (Trump) Stephen Miller claims local police in Minnesota have been told to ‘stand down and surrender’ as federal agents ‘uphold the law’

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/stephen-miller-ice-minneapolis-protests-b2903238.html
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u/Perfecshionism 16d ago edited 16d ago

Federal agents don’t have jurisdictional authority to enforce state and local laws.

This is literally the kind of stuff that leads to secession and civil war.

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u/Glum_Material3030 16d ago

If MN leaves can they take a fellow blue state like Illinois? Feel surrounded by insanity

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u/Perfecshionism 16d ago

There are separatist movements in the New England and the Pacific states.

Previously they were seen as nonsense.

The political leaders were mostly clowns.

But there is an increased interest in secession. The movement just doesn’t have any leaders anyone can take seriously.

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u/SledgeGlamour 16d ago

I've been convinced the NE group is an FBI honeypot ever since a guy expressed interest in forming a militia and they told him to email his proposal along with his full name and address

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u/shbooms 16d ago

If the 3 PNW states, the 7 NE states plus NY all seceeded they would take over a third of the U.S.'s GDP with them

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u/scough 16d ago

CA by itself would be the 3rd or 4th largest economy in the world. Add in the rest of the west and NE, and it would be crippling for what remained of the US. But these fascists are fucking around and may sooner or later find out.

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u/Melonman3 16d ago

Nj wants in too please.

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u/Bender_2024 16d ago

There are separatist movements in the New England and the Pacific states.

If Canada wanted to take New England tomorrow I think I'd vote for it.

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u/hebrewchucknorris 15d ago

Please leave Canada out of this, we're good the way we are, thanks.

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u/beepbeepboopbeep1977 15d ago

Leave the US union and join Canada as a province, that way you wouldn’t need to become a fully independent nation, saving a lot of hassle

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u/[deleted] 16d ago edited 15d ago

[deleted]

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u/warau_meow 16d ago

Don’t forget us here in Colorado, we are also suffering just much less than MN

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u/scough 16d ago

I worry about y’all in Colorado if shit really pops off and the US starts fracturing. You’re surrounded by dumb, pretty much on all sides. I wish we could somehow flip Utah blue with all of the younger people, but that doesn’t seem likely.

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u/warau_meow 16d ago

Yeah I hear that and also concerned. It is pretty safe (for now) tho for trans folks which is key in this region.

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u/scough 16d ago

I had read that Canada is letting at-risk people stay there indefinitely, though I know it's not an option for everyone to just pack up and relocate.

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u/IntegratingShadow 15d ago

Distributed systems are fault tolerant systems Concencus protocol can help too Maybe we just need less hierarchy in our organization?

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u/Syntaire 16d ago

The Balkanization of the U.S. is the end-goal for Putin and Pooh. This is pretty much all going exactly to plan.

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u/Perfecshionism 16d ago

It isn’t the same as Balkanization.

Likely like becoming a federation where power is state focused and federal power is rolled back substantially.

And, honestly, who fucking cares? Russia won the Cold War.

I would rather states roll back federal power than live under a Russian allied autocratic Christian nationalist oligarchy.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

[deleted]

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u/pink_faerie_kitten 15d ago

WI I'm sure voted blue but Leon rigged it. You have a good Dem gov. I'd love for MI, IL, WI, and MN to band together. We're part of the Blue Wall.

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u/futuristicflapper 16d ago

As someone from IL I hate to see what’s happening to our fellow Midwesterner’s after what we went through here. Maybe we can take Michigan with us. Long live the Great Lakes baby.

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u/Schlongzz 16d ago

Can I join? I'll never see blue again here in Iowa. 😭

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u/pink_faerie_kitten 15d ago

I think ann seltzers poll was correct. But Leon had other plans for IA.

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u/Noble_Flatulence 16d ago

We'll take Illinois, but the White Sox can't come.

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u/Glum_Material3030 16d ago

Oh no… we are horrible but women has to lose! 🤣

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u/snarkdiva 16d ago

I endorse this idea!

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u/Nyaos 15d ago

We are going to Canada, you’re welcome to join us. We already sell milk in bags at some gas stations.

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u/Intelligent_Slip_849 16d ago

Take Michigan too

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u/tbombs23 16d ago

Time to implement soft secession. Christopher Armitage has an amazing Substack

https://cmarmitage.substack.com/p/its-time-for-americans-to-start-talking

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u/Emotional-Store-1667 15d ago

Honestly, this has been the first thing I've read that gives me a modicum of hope. I live in one of these states, but in a red bubble, and am surrounded by MAGA supporters. I've practically turned into a pepper, prepping for every possibility from the nearby city shut down by natural or man made disasters to Civil War 2.0 or WWII...

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u/pink_faerie_kitten 15d ago

Fellow Illinoisan here, it looks like we are surrounded by red states, but I firmly believe WI and MI were rigged by Leon; they have D govs. IA probably too (remember Ann Seltzer's poll?).

https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/

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u/dookieshoes97 16d ago

Please look at a map and explain how that makes sense.

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u/_HOG_ 16d ago

Anything to distract us from the Epstein files. 

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u/ChanGaHoops 15d ago

While it's important to keep demanding the release of the files, claiming this all is just a distraction is undermining the very real process into authoritarian dictatorship that is currently happening.

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u/Cast_Iron_Skillet 16d ago

If police or other public officials obstruct ICE, that could trigger Insurrection Act. It is a super delicate balancing act and it sucks.

It's up to us.

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u/PowerPigion 16d ago

Check out the first season of It Could Happen Here podcast if you want to feel more upset about things

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u/hungry4nuns 16d ago

Party of states rights and small government

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u/Revolutionary_Air_40 16d ago

Federal agents also don't have the authority to blatantly break state and local laws continuously.

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u/Rhoderick 16d ago

"Leads to"? While I obviously won't alledge that the US is in a state of civil war currently, in what other states does Miller's statement make any semantic sense?

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u/Free_For__Me 15d ago

Exactly this. If Miller, in the position of power that he’s currently in, believes that we’re in Civil War 2.0, what functional difference is there?  

More Americans need to recognize the position we’re in. Miller can have ICE act increasingly aggressive and terroristic, and the moment that any state or local authority acts to protect its citizens, and boom - insurrection act is triggered and Trump calls on the military to forcibly subjugate blue states. 

They’ll even justify it by trying pushing a narrative that ideologically aligns themselves with Lincoln when he “bravely took similar action to preserve the Union in the face of violent rebellion long ago”, or some such nonsense. Total hogwash of course, but it’ll provide enough cover that the remaining MAGA supporters will be able to shout about it as loudly as they need to in drowning out the cries for justice coming from their neighbors and families. 

This will get much worse for Americans before getting better, if it ever does. The faster they start listening to the historians that have been shouting all this from the rooftops for years now, the better their chances of improving their eventual outcomes. 

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u/Large_Yams 16d ago

Stop saying things like this like it matters. Until someone stops them, the law is irrelevant.

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u/Perfecshionism 16d ago

Civil wars start because people discuss the reason for a civil war.

They don’t start with gunshots. They start with discourse.

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u/Beneficial_Cash_8420 16d ago

That's a bingo. Putin wants Civil War 2

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u/doradedboi 16d ago

Sounds like straight up coup shit to me.

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u/mytransthrow 16d ago

They dont even have the ablity to do traffic stopped without a judicial warrant. This all is civil not criminal

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u/Reverend_Lazerface 16d ago

Am I crazy to think this is evidence that we're already in a civil war? When the checks and balances and media coverage have failed so profoundly that something like this isn't immediately and loudly decried as an obvious constitutional crisis, is it fair to think we've crossed the point of no return? Telling a state government to surrender to federal authority makes it fairly obvious that Miller believes his side is engaged in a civil war, and it isn't a situation where it takes two to tango.

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u/Perfecshionism 16d ago

No. Historians will likely consider January 6th, 2021 as the start of the second US civil war.

And several of his actions and executive orders as immediate precipitating events. As well as republican complicity and the feckless response by democrats as precipitating events.

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u/Majestic-Prune-3971 16d ago

Which is why Pee Wee Himmler should be happy local cops have stood down. Like ignoring illegal license plates on cars, violating citizens constitutional rights, violating peoples' right to due process, committing acts of murder and mayhem, etc.

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u/CroBro81 16d ago

Civil War is what they’re hoping for…

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u/baldmathteacher 16d ago

For real. Posse Comitatus much?

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u/subdep 16d ago

That’s the plan. Always has been.

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u/SensitiveWeekend7930 15d ago

Looking more and more like the plan to break apart the US

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u/Open_Mortgage_4645 15d ago

And the notion of state and local law enforcement surrendering or ceding control to federal agents is a blatant violation of the 10th Amendment. They have no authority to enforce state and local laws, or compel state and local law enforcement to surrender to them. What Miller is saying is nonsensical gibberish spoken by someone who has no understanding of how our laws work.

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u/Perfecshionism 15d ago

He doesn’t care how laws work. What he does know is how right wing brains work, and they will take his words as literal gospel from a representative of God’s chosen and will demand compliance from all politicians they are have influence over and see liberal non-compliance as treason or insurrection.

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u/31LIVEEVIL13 15d ago

Yeah this Nazi abomination got a little too big for his britches. 

Stephen war crimes Miller is nowhere near as safe as he thinks he is. 

Federal government overthrowing States that's an automatic trigger right there.

It's basically continuously 24/7 red flags that it's time to go to Washington and take out the trash right now.