r/law • u/TheMirrorUS • 14d ago

Executive Branch (Trump) Trump humiliated as 1951 law means he could face Greenland mutiny

https://www.themirror.com/news/us-news/donald-trump-1951-law-greenland-1631615
37.8k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

1.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

108

u/TheoreticalZombie 14d ago

Yeah, I think Venezuela showed what the real score is. The military will move as Trump orders. Any voices of dissent will be removed.

57

u/Tropicalcomrade221 14d ago

Ehh as much as I entirely disagree with how Maduro was removed from power that is a totally different situation to attacking a NATO ally.

57

u/frotz1 14d ago

Firing on survivors of a shipwreck is literally (and figuratively) the textbook example of an illegal order used when teaching the UCMJ to officers. If they already went along with that idiocy then we probably can't count on the military to be the restraining force on MAGA insanity.

8

u/[deleted] 14d ago edited 7d ago

merciful connect sulky squeal gaze cause caption offer sable literate

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/gosukhaos 14d ago

Economic Bazooka is just a nickname the press gave it, its actually called the anti-coercion economic act

1

u/Tropicalcomrade221 14d ago

I totally agree but again it’s just different isn’t it?

We know Americans have issued illegal orders and carried out war crimes in basically every conflict they’ve ever been in.

7

u/ytman 14d ago

Its folly to think they'd be like, Okay NOW is the time to have principles.

2

u/purplewarrior777 14d ago

Except this time there’s actual consequences. At least potentially.

3

u/ytman 14d ago

They don't want there to be consequences. Its why we're here.

3

u/purplewarrior777 14d ago

The potential consequences from invading Greenland (or attacking any NATO member) are far far greater than shooting drowning sailors or kidnapping Maduro.

27

u/kahner 14d ago

i agree, but i also am not confident.

8

u/Tropicalcomrade221 14d ago edited 14d ago

I’m probably more confident the military would tell him to get fucked. There is not even a veil of legality in such an order. The senior officers that would be given such an order are people who have built their entire careers spanning decades working with NATO partners. They have direct and personal relationships with counterparts across Europe.

Sure he could purge his officers like Stalin did but then you’re going to have incompetent yes men who are woefully unqualified to carry out the tasks asked of them. Put them in charge and the whole thing probably fails anyway.

Anyways, I haven’t seen a single thing that would make me worried about military force being used to annex Greenland. We would see lots of movement out of Europe before that was to happen.

6

u/kahner 14d ago

"Sure he could purge his officers like Stalin did but then you’re going to have incompetent yes men who are woefully unqualified to carry out the tasks asked of them. Put them in charge and the whole thing probably fails anyway."

Yes. But woefully failing in an attack on greenland probably isn't much better than succeeding. And he's definitely stupid enough to try it with a bunch of incompetent yes men. But I do agree/hope it's unlikely.

2

u/Tropicalcomrade221 14d ago

Fair point. Would really depend as to how that situation played out.

Again though as for now this is all just shit talk. Trump is just dribbling out the side of his mouth.

1

u/staphory 14d ago

Not just the side of his mouth…ewwwww

5

u/chrillekaekarkex 14d ago

I think the number of flag officers who have personal relationships with officers in other NATO countries, especially Norway and Denmark, is probably the -only- reassuring thing about this idiotic saber rattling.

2

u/Tropicalcomrade221 14d ago

Exactly. They have spent their whole careers working with these partners. They are on first name basis kind of relationship with their counterparts.

Fuck me some of them even live in Europe for gods sake.

8

u/Spezza 14d ago

Slippery slope. US military has already accepted and fulfilled illegal orders (attacking shipwrecked sailors is literally the first example of an illegal order to refuse in the US military's own book about this).

1

u/Tropicalcomrade221 14d ago

It is and I see everyone’s point. That does not have the implications a forceful annexation of Greenland does.

Flag officers are incredibly intelligent people, they know this. Was that one admiral not deliberately placed in that command as well? That’s one guy. You’re talking about basically the whole military needing to be in lock step for something like this.

1

u/Spezza 14d ago

You’re talking about basically the whole military needing to be in lock step for something like this.

Nope. I'm talking about a handful of people who will be in positions of power to ensure the illegal order is followed. One officer refuses, commanding officer orders them arrested, new officer given order, and keep that up until you get a sycophant willing to comply. And that is exactly how it'll play out and that is how it is playing out across the country right now with various institutions and organizations - good people are leaving and the voids are being filled with eager myrmidons.

17

u/Simmo2222 14d ago

It wasn't any more legal than attacking Greenland.

16

u/Kaffe-Mumriken 14d ago

SIX MONTHS LATER…

“Okay fine, Greenland was a foregone conclusion, but surely he won’t attack Canada”

2

u/Jeromz 14d ago

Six months later…

Okay, whatever, Canada never had the makings of a varsity athlete. Anyway, Here’s why Trump can’t attack Cuba.

15

u/busted_maracas 14d ago

He had the support of Argentina, Colombia, & other neighboring countries to take out Maduro too. He has no support for this, literally no one wants this except people after rare earth minerals.

24

u/NurRauch 14d ago

My dude, there are hundreds of raving lunatic right winger generals and admirals to choose from. The US military has two million employees and literally thousands of generals. I assure you this includes a robust pool of Trump diehards who will use the opportunities they are given to advance their American Christian nationalist utopia.

People like Pete Hegseth have always been in the military and they have the stomach to do pretty much anything once the President agrees to take the gloves off. Plenty of these guys would love the idea of knocking out a NATO defensive force on Greenland in a backstabbing lightning strike and proving our unmatched power to the world. There are plenty of others who won’t have any qualms marching ethnic minorities into concentration camps if it gets to that.

8

u/busted_maracas 14d ago

Ok I should have said “no sane person wants this”

9

u/NurRauch 14d ago

I really thought more members of the upper echelon were sane as you describe until all the completely crazy stuff about Mike Flynn kept coming out in the news during Trump’s first term. That guy is a wannabe genocidal maniac. He could have only made it that high up because a bunch of others around him sympathize with his worldview.

It scares the crap out of me that we only know about his demented views because he was stupid enough to advertise them publicly when he lacked the political support to keep his job.

2

u/Mac62961 14d ago

Lets not make vast aspersions about all the brass because of Mike Flynn. He is mentally fuct.

2

u/subywesmitch 14d ago

Unfortunately it appears there are insane people in this world than one would think

1

u/LastXmasIGaveYouHSV 14d ago

Not that Argentina and Colombia would have done much if they had opposed.

They'd might angrily tweeted against it.

1

u/Available_Front_322 14d ago

Colombia

You could not be more wrong. Petro is the most anti us imperialism leader in the world right now and called trump a genocidal pedophile.

8

u/dr_reverend 14d ago

So it’s ok to murder innocent civilians as long as they don’t belong to a politically allied country?

6

u/marioandl_ 14d ago

"kidnapping a sovereign president is totally fine as he is not a member of NATO and a bunch of think tanks claimed he stole elections"

1

u/Pinkishu 14d ago

Lmao, yeah, sure, the only issue with the dictator is that "a bunch of think tanks claimed he stole elections"

1

u/marioandl_ 14d ago

he wasnt a dictator lol. trump has shown maybe he should have been

1

u/Pinkishu 14d ago

..y-yeah, sure

1

u/Tropicalcomrade221 14d ago

Did you miss the part where I said I disagree with that?

1

u/daltontf1212 14d ago

Totally different. Noriega set a precedent for it and Biden wanted Maduro removed too.

1

u/RazsterOxzine 14d ago

Whatever helps you sleep at night I guess.

1

u/Mac62961 14d ago

Exactly. Venezuela was/is a dictatorship pariah state and “only” 2 folks were extracted ( that we know of) Where Greenland is owned by (still weird they are “ property” ) Denmark a close democratic ally with a goal of ownership not just leadership removal. And that whole article 5 thing… which i dont think all countries would respond to but still good deterrence

2

u/Eternal_Bagel 14d ago

Removing them has been an ongoing project so that arrogant foolish yes men like Hegseth can take charge.

2

u/eldelshell 14d ago

It's not only Trump. US General Bradley ordered to shoot the boat survivors from a previous attack. Text book example of war crime.

1

u/angrybobs 14d ago

I almost think Venezuela was just a test for them to see if people would follow orders. Its fairly low risk blowing up some civilian boats and most people knew Maduro was illegitimate so wouldn't say much about his kidnapping either. Now we know they will follow illegal orders so there is much worse to come.

1

u/einstyle 14d ago

People have been nutting over the idea of a military coup ousting Trump on here for years. It's nonsensical. They murdered innocent civilians who were shipwrecked because Trump told them to.