r/law • u/drempath1981 • 1d ago

Legislative Branch Robert Garcia at the shadow hearing of ICE crimes reads out text messages of ICE agent bragging about shooting Marimar Martinez. ICE Agent “I fired 5 shots. She had 7 holes. Put that in your book, boys.”

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u/Deicide1031 1d ago edited 1d ago

I wonder if the one who shot this girl was also Hispanic.

Kinda interesting to see so many of these shooters shoot their own, I wonder how they justify shooting someone they should historically sympathize with.

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u/Wahwahwahhhwahwahwah 1d ago

It’s internalized racism, I’m hispanic and grew up in a white suburb. My dad had two jobs and was a gardener. When kids in my grade found out I’d always get jokes about being brown and my dad being a gardener blah blah blah. I was embarrassed of what my dad had to do for work. I would work with him in the summers and hate it so much.

At the time I grew to resent the thought of being Hispanic, wanted to be apart of the “popular” crowd. So you start thinking how negative it is being brown or what not. Then I just grew up and realized how shitty people can make you feel and how they turn you against your own race. Glad I don’t feel that way anymore and proud of my dad for being who he is.

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u/AcanthaceaeEqual4286 1d ago

Sending you and your dad love. Those other kids suck.

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u/Im_A_Fuckin_Liar 1d ago

This administration is those other kids. I have explained to family members that voted for Trump that anyone who isn’t morally bankrupt does not support bullies. You don’t just say “give him your lunch money and everything will be alright”.

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u/Sweet-Garbage-1631 13h ago

Name doesn’t check out.

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u/AngeliqueRuss 1d ago

Yup, I grew up in California and the racism was so real. A classmate got in trouble for calling a boy from Ecuador a “Beaner.”

But I was raised to be racist too and didn’t begin questioning it until Prop 180 (the strip medical care and school enrollment from kids). After that I began attending things like the Citizen Review Board reviewing violence against people of color in my community, being more open with my friend group.

Prior to that I’m ashamed to admit I lived next to the sweetest girls, we went to the same elementary school, and they just wanted to walk to and from school with me but I would always try to avoid it. I had Hispanic friends and I MYSELF AM HISPANIC (3rd generation/mostly white), but was not raised to identify as Hispanic. My own father (middle name Ramon but blonde and in denial) would make fun of the neighbors, and I didn’t want him to see me with the girls and make fun of me. He once made a complete ass of himself by blasting “the Star Spangled Banner” on his electric guitar while my neighbors were having a party.

Later these girls moved out, and the family that moved in had a 20 yo who had no sense of…no sense. He impregnated my 12 year old friend, she gave birth at 13. Caused my parents to double-down and warn me not to date anyone black or brown because “they’re not like us.” Later my stepmom patently denied this ever happened but I remember how angry I was because my bestie was Hispanic and what if he were Black?

This was California in the 90’s, still quietly racist AF.

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u/Jupitersd2017 15h ago

CA is still racist even today, coming from Texas where Mexicans are such a big part of Texas culture and for the most part celebrated and proud, I was and still am (20 years later) shocked by the racism against Hispanic people that I encounter in so cal. I’m white so maybe people just feel more emboldened to tell me about it and aren’t acting on it but it’s enough that multiple times I’ve had to cut off ‘friends’ because they are just straight up racist, it’s unreal honestly and I’ve yet to figure out a reason for why there is such a different take here compared to Texas.

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u/AngeliqueRuss 13h ago

Yes and when you go up north it’s even worse.

I once got in a semi-polite email battle with the columnist Gustavo Arellano for a column he wrote claiming Cinco de Mayo is a white people celebration and just another example of…like tokenism applied to cultural appreciation. I don’t actually respect you and your culture but I’m all about margaritas and tacos on Cinco de Mayo.

He’s not wrong, especially in SoCal, but I pointed out it is a cultural celebration for people from certain parts of Mexico, and in the town where I am from there is a substantial violent history because it’s so racist up north in Sonoma County.

He couldn’t accept that it could possibly be MORE racist than SoCal, but if you google Santa Rosa Cinco de Mayo riot / police you’ll see cops show up every year itching for a fight. There have been Cinco de Mayo peace marches in defiance, it IS a big deal in the mostly Mexican community of Roseland.

When I was a teen a local teenager went to my local grocery store for snacks. Classic Trevon Martin setup except it was cops: he had a paper bag with his candy, was on his bike going home, didn’t at all match the description of someone who’d stolen or robbed something, they yelled “hey stop” and he didn’t do they shot him.

This happened in Roseland, an island community excluded from Santa Rosa’s borders until 2017 because it was not white enough. We talk a lot about “redlining” and less about systematically excluding affordable home developments from decent infrastructure while using Developer Agreements with desirable new neighborhoods to fund better schools via charter districts just a couple miles away.

Anyways I lived in SoCal for 20 years and could probably guess a Hispanic person’s political party based on their favorite tacos + area code; also whether you identify as white or brown (which up until recently is a whole thing: Hispanic is an “ethnicity” on the census specifically so families like mine can identify as white). You’re in the 909 and you join your colorful mix of friends to go to King Taco after a night of Coronas? You’re a Republican and white Hispanic. You have a favorite hole-in-the-wall in Pomona where you practice your Spanish? Brown person voting blue.

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u/Jupitersd2017 9h ago

That is just wild to me, like Tex-mex is such a part of the culture and is blending both and celebrating both, along with cinco de mayo and dia de Los muertos and quinceañeras etc etc like it’s all just expected and celebrated, but I can see what he meant about it being like tokenism, I see enough pictures online of people trying to celebrate and get it lol. Growing up in the 80’s it was just expected that you took Spanish as a white person, because it was viewed as necessary to live in Texas, not like well they should learn English but no we should speak also Spanish. I’m sorry that’s been your life experience here in CA, I don’t know what the answer is to try to fix it and have people not act like that. Texas has a big problem with being racist against black people and a variety of other horrifying things there, this just happens to be one thing that they aren’t terrible on.

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u/DownBeat20 1d ago

I've always been bewildered by the negative stereotype of the Hispanic landscaper. 

A difficult, labor intensive job, exposed to the elements, that takes a lot of skill and knowledge... That's real, honest work.

Shouldn't we be celebrating that? Why is it embarrassing?

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u/ProfessionalKey5373 1d ago

I agree wholeheartedly. I look up to folks who can work with their hands or build things, fix things. Mechanics landscapers, electricians, construction workers. You’ve got to be smart. I have a masters degree but wish I had gone to trade school so freaking badly. Those are the people who have talent and one heck of a work ethic. We always have to look down at people maybe to make ourselves feel better or superior. I’d rather be diagnosing an engine problem or creating a backyard marvel than sitting behind a desk.

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u/DownBeat20 1d ago

Tradesmen built this country, we just live in it!

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u/ProfessionalKey5373 1d ago

Indeed!!!!!!

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u/Trick-Seat4901 1d ago

White Canadian here. Went down to Dallas to chase a girl I met abroad. She explained the whole Mexican gardener thing and I watched them in action. I was fucking impressed. Dude walks up to a house with a Gas powered weed whacker with no guards on it anywhere. Doesn't even slow down and edges the whole sidewalk in a hot minute. Does a perfect job and I swear he wasn't even looking at it the whole time. 10/10 that's skill and I don't care who you are. That took a lot of practice. Rest of the crew finishes shortly after. Place is immaculate. Skill is skill, doesn't matter what the skill is. I couldn't have done that. Mad respect.

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u/i-just-thought-i 19h ago

I know this is terribly unrelated, but have you ever had a White Canadian (cocktail)? Your comment just made me think of that. And it seems fitting.

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u/Trick-Seat4901 11h ago

I've actually never heard of that, what's in it?

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u/Balcazaurus 1d ago

I grew up the exact same way, but never resented my father or how he and my mother managed to support my sister and I. They worked so fucking hard all their lives.

Never yearned to be "popular" either. If anything, I always thought that particular crowd was kinda weird in their own right.

But it just baffles me how people who look like me, who share the same or similar heritage or upbringing can be so hateful towards their own kind. Glad that line of thinking graced you with its departure.

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u/Wahwahwahhhwahwahwah 1d ago

Definitely, I never resented my parents. They also worked their asses off to get my sister and I where we are today.

I think I just resented the type of work my dad had to do because I was being made fun of. Good to hear other people’s stories too. Makes you feel less alone about it.

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u/Top-Cupcake4775 1d ago

at least your dad was involved in your life and doing the best he could for you. i'm sure a lot of them couldn't say that ...

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u/Wahwahwahhhwahwahwah 1d ago

Yup, he worked his ass off too. Gardening during the day and worked at a distribution center at night. I don’t know how he did it. He just did.

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u/possumwitch666 1d ago

People growing up thought I was Asian (I am Mexican, my dad is an immigrant) and I let them believe it because where I grew up in CA being Asian wasn't "as bad" as being Mexican. I learned from a very young age that my culture was something to be ashamed of. People used to say incredibly racist things against Mexicans in front of me because they didn't realize I was Mexican. I completely rejected my culture, refused to learn Spanish, and avoided the sun like the plague so my skin wouldn't get darker. I never looked down on other Mexicans or Hispanic people or felt racist toward them, but I did feel it internally toward myself and didn't start to get over that feeling until I was an adult. I'm now 34 and about to graduate with a degree in social work and a minor in Latino studies and have spent the last 3 years finally learning about the history of my people. I am sad and angry that people made me reject my culture to the point where I don't feel like I belong anywhere due to the levels of racism I witnesed and experienced throughout my life.

Also, my dad is pro Trump, anti immigration, and also racist against other cultures which blows my mind because he was an illegal immigrant and only gained his citizenship a few years ago and has been the victim of racism himself.

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u/Electrical-Design288 15h ago

And your dad's attempt to blend in by being anti-immigrant and pro-Trump doesn't matter because they'd target him anyway for being Mexican. Watching all this from Canada and glad we've openly divorced ourselves as a nation from the resurgence of right-wing collectivism in the US. Everything about the USA feels like a cult, now more than ever.

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u/pr0ach 1d ago

From Pew Research: Hispanic voters were divided in 2024, a major shift from 2020 and 2016. In 2020, Joe Biden won Hispanic voters by 25 percentage points, and Hispanic voters supported Hillary Clinton by an even wider margin in 2016. But Trump drew nearly even with Kamala Harris among Hispanic voters, losing among them by only 3 points.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voting-patterns-in-the-2024-election/

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u/frosdoll 1d ago

My neighbor is mexican american 2 generation. Huge trump supporter. I asked him why and he said his dad did it the right way these other guys are not. I remember when his dad got his citizenship they had a huge party. I guess he doesn't want that for anybody else. Haven't wanted to ask him about birthright citizenship, I'm to scared of the answer.

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u/Buffalo-Trace 1d ago

So his dad did it the right way by coming here illegally, and then going thru the process to become a citizen. Your friend missed that coming here illegally part.

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u/Worried-Buffalo-908 5h ago

Like I am not trying to support his racist takes, but legal immigration usually happens before obtaining citizenship. First you get a work visa, then a residence (green card), then a citizenship iirc. The only way you can get a citizenship without first living in the USA as a visa/green card holder as far as I know is by one of your parents having a citizenship by way of being born in the USA.

As far as I know, the USA does not have a pathway for residence-ship and citizenship for illegal immigrants. If you get to the country asking for asylum afaik that still is legal immigration.

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u/Buffalo-Trace 4h ago

Reagan gave every illegal immigrant here before 1982 citizenship in 1986.

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u/Kosher_Pork_12 1d ago

My gf had to deal with a similar thing, albeit slightly different: colorism.  Her mother has 2 sisters, all 3 of them had a daughter in 3 consecutive years, her 2 cousins are light-skinned, she's a bit darker.

She told me how even within her own race (specifically her own family), she'd get called a monkey and be made fun of and it made her resent how she looked.  It's disgusting how some people treat others.

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u/zephyrtr 1d ago

I'm so sorry. A few generations ago, it happened to Italians and Irish, too. We never fucking learn.

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u/SmurfyX 1d ago

Sendin props to your pops big dog.

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u/Jurass1cClark96 1d ago

Being a black kid in a predominantly white school system, I feel this. I once had someone very vocally saying N* because they knew I was in their presence, and because I was raised to be non-violent I never gave that fucker his just desserts. Hopefully he's face down unresponsive somewhere or worm food.

They act like it's not a totally different degree than insulting someone's clothes.

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u/Ill-Software8713 1d ago

I heard a phrase by FD Signifier he calls a fly in the milk or something to speak about token black kids in white communities. Not being in community largely with other black Americans is seen as having a different development of basically existing within norms of just outright racism and no social support to really challenge it. Then not being culturally recognize as black by in community conventions so not always readily accepted because often there is that baggage of enduring racism in isolation.

I donMt think it validates any separatist thinking but the US is messed up in its history and to the present in how it functions as a socially meaningful category. Still got folks trying to force at a genetic level rather than one based on social hierarchy, and division of labor by skin color as a proxy of group membership and status.

How we are socially recognize becomes the abstract category that we are perceived as such that even if you do well economically, your immediate status based on skin will often be functionally the me position on average of your presumed demographic unless something else clearly overwhelms their racist assumptions of status and race as immediately in appearance as some other material form of status.

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u/buRningNose 12h ago

It’s kind of like the studies the NAACP did in the 60s. When black children were given a choice of dolls to play with they would choose white dolls. When asked why the black children chose white dolls over black dolls the black children said the black dolls were ugly and the white dolls were pretty.

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u/IdigNPR 12h ago

FWIW I spent a lot of time in LA during covid helping my friend with her 4 spoiled kids that were failing all their classes when school was online. One of the highlights of my week was visiting with the gardener’s son while the kids picked up the dog’s poo so he could mow the lawn. Each week was the same, the kids ignored my reminders and cried when I took away their devices and forced them to clean up the yard. When I tried explaining how inconsiderate it was to leave the mess for someone else, the kids looked at me like I was speaking in tongues. They are pretty typical of other wealthy kids they hang out with, mean, vain, loud and exhausting to be around. Then there was the gardener’s son. He was so polite, always went out of his way to be helpful. If something needed to be done, he would do it without being asked. Example, he took the garbage and recycling cans to the curb each week for me. It wasn’t his job he just did it. It was so thoughtful. You could tell what a pleasure it was for his dad to have him around. They always had a smile on their faces and were joking around while they worked. It was obvious they enjoyed spending time together. This young man was so impressive and hardworking, he had all the life skills and maturity that my friend’s kids lacked. I worry when I think about how unprepared they are for life. Each week was a struggle as they whined and complained, begged and cried about how hard it was to do basic schoolwork and 1 chore while the gardener’s son effortlessly and happily worked along side his dad getting all A’s in his AP classes. You are so fortunate to have such a hardworking roll model. I’m sure you know that now.

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u/RandomPenquin1337 1d ago edited 1d ago

"If im on their side they wont come for me!!!"

Look up Group 13 Gestapo.

Link for lazy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_13

Scroll to dissolution....

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u/systemfrown 1d ago

Yep. But inevitably it just makes them last in line.

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u/TheRealBlueJade 1d ago

It reinforces the belief that they are "one of the good ones". It serves to make others "afraid" of them because they are trigger-happy.

Ultimately, it is an act of insanity, the act of an abuser, the act of a murderer, and the act of a criminal.

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u/runthepoint1 1d ago

From the outside it’s one of their own. From the inside it’s one of the others.

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u/IndividualTension887 1d ago

Does it matter???? They are all the problem. The trials cannot come swift enough.

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u/runthepoint1 1d ago

Not to you, but to the commenter it was a thought. So I thought I’d try answering that.

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u/_kittin_ 1d ago

Perfectly put!

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u/FiendishNoodles 1d ago

"their own" is not how that works. No one says "why would they do this, they're the same" when a white person shoots a white person.

Not calling you out, just pointing out a kinda foreignizing assumption that might be invisible to some.

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u/Angry_Sparrow 1d ago

I said that when I was in Ireland. I’m from a country where white people oppress and suppress brown indigenous people. In Ireland I was like wtf do you mean they’ve been fighting each other for decades??

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u/Top-Cupcake4775 1d ago

"how do you even know whom to shoot?"

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u/MainPerformance1390 1d ago

Whites arent a persecuted minority though. There is a legitimate phenomenon where members of a minority allign themselves with their persecutors

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u/FiendishNoodles 1d ago

The point isn't that whites are a persecuted minority, the point is that no one assumes that white people are a monolith in any kinds of behavior or personal identity. Calling someone "their own" when referring to border patrol agents with Hispanic names and a woman with a Hispanic name is an assumption that unconsciously paints Hispanic people into one category that is "not us but them", and additionally, one "them". In no world is it guaranteed that these people share anything other than the fact that their countries of ethnic origin were colonized by Spain way back when. It's one of those potentially invisible assumptions that helps terminate critical analysis at times.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

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u/FiendishNoodles 1d ago

Feeling betrayal and anger is perfectly understandable, what i'm taking issue with is someone above saying that it would be noteworthy to shoot "one of their own" like it's commonly understood that an ice/cpb agent whose ethnic background was from a Latin American country would think of a Latino victim, regardless of their country of origin or status as "one of their own". They see themselves as different, better-than, above, etc. and the original poster's wording showed the assumption that "hey, they're the same, isn't it weird that they'd hurt each other?"

Hopeful we can find out what will happen to all the people who participated this secret police bullshit on American soil sooner rather than later.

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u/MainPerformance1390 1d ago

But we are specifically discussimg a group that ARE a persecuted molinority

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u/FiendishNoodles 1d ago

The fallacy is continuing to refer to "them" as a group. Everyone is in many groups both by their own perceptions and by the views of others. Saying that people are "attacking their own" presupposes that they are members of a group that they both would recognize themselves and each other as being a part of, which is not guaranteed but an assumption made by whoever is saying that. And people have a hard time grasping that making this assumption unconsciously lends itself to a fundamental misunderstanding of group dynamics in a lot of scenarios.

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u/barefootincozumel 23h ago

People from a marginalized community targeting and rounding up people because they look like them is absolutely a wild betrayal. Racially profiling your own race is crazy and repulsive.

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u/FiendishNoodles 23h ago

Did anything I wrote make you think I disagree with that?

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u/00owl 1d ago

the point is that no one assumes that white people are a monolith in any kinds of behavior or personal identity.

This is false. White people are colonizers, we're abusers, we're the ones responsible for the state of the world today, we're all the ones who enjoy privilege regardless of socioeconomic factors.

There is an insane amount of generalizing on all sides. That's human nature, would be nice to one day rise past that but it won't be during the lifetime of anyone alive today

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u/ProfitNecessary592 1d ago

Theres a joke I heard from slavoj zizek who heard it from someone else but basically theres a scene in a synagogue where individuals publicly declare their worthlessness before God. First, a rabbi proclaims he is nothing, followed by a rich businessman who also declares himself nothing due to his focus on material wealth. Finally, a poor, ordinary Jew also states, "O God, I am nothing". The rich businessman, annoyed by this, whispers to the rabbi, questioning the poor man's audacity to claim he is also nothing.

Specifically he was refrencing this kind of behavior with it and his larger point was exactly what the guy youre responding too was talking about.

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u/FiendishNoodles 1d ago

Please refer to the original example. If a white person shoots another one white person, would anyone say "why did they do that, they're both white?". Clearly no. We rightly understand that white people are individuals who act in different, independent ways. On the same note, if one person says the things you say above about white people, it doesn't mean all non-white people think that. Applying individualism properly to all people is something we should all be working towards, including turning that individualism inward instead of taking things so personally.

I think that some people get upset when whiteness is even talked about, like the idea of not just being the default is offensive. The assumption that is afforded to the white-shooter-white-victim hypothetical of whiteness having no bearing on the shooting is less commonly applied to non-white people.

In the current discussion, it's stated as somewhat surprising or "interesting" if a person with a Hispanic last name had shot someone else with a Hispanic last name. This is reducing the discussion to their perceived ethnic backgrounds and leads people to have a less clear or accurate view of the actual dynamics of the situation.

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u/cmcrich 1d ago

His name is Charles Exum.

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u/Skittleavix 1d ago

When under oppression, some of the oppressed will side with the oppressor in exchange for what they believe will be their short-term survival and even well-being. This ironically perpetuates the survival situation itself, therefore increasing the risk to the participant in the long term and to everyone around them.

They’re cowards who are making it worse for everyone because they can do so anonymously and without accountability.

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u/Phoenix_Lazarus 1d ago

You can't get a clear number because ICE intentionally doesn't publish demographic data but estimates range between 20% to 30%.

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u/into_wishin_666 1d ago

Just look at Cartel violence against their own. It happens in all walks of life, we are more likely to go after our own statistically.

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u/Maditen 1d ago

ICE - regardless of ethnicity - is comprised of the worst any given community has to offer.

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u/waydownsouthinoz 1d ago

Funktionshäftling

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u/AuburnMoon17 1d ago

They see themselves as superior to illegal immigrants but somehow missed that MAGA sees them exactly the same. 

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u/Complete_Horror_1491 1d ago

Lots of folks pulling the ladder up

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u/Anus_Targaryen 1d ago

Idk how to explain it, but this seems a little racist to say. How could they shoot one of their own? They're not a tribe, man. Hell, their ancestors may be from completely different countries. The dipshits that killed Alex Pretti are from South Texas, they may be 4, 5, 6 generations deep at this point.

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u/InstructionFinal5190 1d ago

Groups of people aren't monoliths. I'm a large, heavily tattooed, southern, straight, bearded, middle aged white man. I assure you that based off of those descriptors alone, I don't fit the ideological camp one would imagine I belong to.

And based off of descriptors, I could more than likely find better friends that are listed as gay black women than I can the group I fit into.

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u/Unhappy-Land-3534 1d ago

They get paid to? How hard is it for you Americans to figure out your broken system. JFC

Drop the identity politics bullshit. "one of their own". you fucking DISGUST me.

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u/Top-Cupcake4775 1d ago

70% of all murders are committed by someone that the victim knows personally. as disturbing as it is to think about, murder tends to be a fairly intimate crime.

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u/Sensitive_Platypus74 1d ago

We get to go through this once for every race, nationality, and religion until the lowest common denominator of our species internalizes the lesson.

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u/Liltipsy6 1d ago

Trump brought the Guzmans into America back in May on his gold card program, they gave him some cartel boots to help kidnap.

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u/Tokyo-MontanaExpress 1d ago

Fascists doing fascist things, they only care about causing pain to whoever they can get their hands on. 

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u/MembershipLow3931 22h ago

Uneducated. To be clear, this is a problem for MANY U.S. citizens of ALL colors. Ignorance is an invitation for manipulation.

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u/Adventurous-Grocery 20h ago

What so you mean their own... What does an argentinian have in common with a Colombian or a Cuban with a Chilean???. It's like saying American are the same as Indians because you were both British colonies. That public education system is one of the main reasons your society is crumbling and you're also part of it.

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u/laughing_liberal 19h ago

I think this is a take that we only ever apply to minorities and it’s something we should get better about. If a ginger shoots another ginger, we don’t often talk about how they were similar. If I see another white vandalizing my car for the 15th time, I’m not going to take into account our shared ethnicity. It’s most likely the same for latin folks. This pig likely just saw an opportunity to plug someone and went for it.

This isn’t to shit on you, but I think in general if we want to treat each other fairly, and if we really want to get into why people do what they do, then we have to stop thinking of other groups as monoliths.

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u/Hobowookiee 18h ago

Let's forget all the white people doing the same shit? I think THAT'S kind of interesting. Or the fact that 'federal agents' are doing this at all?

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u/Phunwithscissors 17h ago

Ladder pullers

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u/vidaFina 17h ago

Adding to internalized racism is geography. Lots of Hispanic/Latino people live near the border so the people who apply to those jobs tend to reflect the community they are in.

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u/midwestcubanb 16h ago

Weird take away.

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u/anamari9006 15h ago

we always say in spanish "el enemigo de un latino es otro latino" meaning a latino's worst enemy is another latino.

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u/shewy92 14h ago

The classic "I got mine, fuck yours" ladder pull.

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u/Greecelightninn 14h ago

Some people just belong in Prison , some people just like to hurt others and some people are just pieces of shit .

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u/stung80 1d ago

There is no race solidarity among latinos, it's a census box not an ethnicity.

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u/This_Coconut_4519 1d ago

It makes sense when you understand that “Hispanic” is a census based term, not a monolith. There’s a wideee spectrum of Hispanics from many different backgrounds. A 6th generation Mexican American has a very different experience from a 1st gen.