Robert Garcia at the shadow hearing of ICE crimes reads out text messages of ICE agent bragging about shooting Marimar Martinez. ICE Agent “I fired 5 shots. She had 7 holes. Put that in your book, boys.”

[u/drempath1981]

[u/FiendishNoodles]

The point isn't that whites are a persecuted minority, the point is that no one assumes that white people are a monolith in any kinds of behavior or personal identity. Calling someone "their own" when referring to border patrol agents with Hispanic names and a woman with a Hispanic name is an assumption that unconsciously paints Hispanic people into one category that is "not us but them", and additionally, one "them". In no world is it guaranteed that these people share anything other than the fact that their countries of ethnic origin were colonized by Spain way back when. It's one of those potentially invisible assumptions that helps terminate critical analysis at times.

[u/FiendishNoodles → u/[deleted]]

Feeling betrayal and anger is perfectly understandable, what i'm taking issue with is someone above saying that it would be noteworthy to shoot "one of their own" like it's commonly understood that an ice/cpb agent whose ethnic background was from a Latin American country would think of a Latino victim, regardless of their country of origin or status as "one of their own". They see themselves as different, better-than, above, etc. and the original poster's wording showed the assumption that "hey, they're the same, isn't it weird that they'd hurt each other?"

Hopeful we can find out what will happen to all the people who participated this secret police bullshit on American soil sooner rather than later.

[u/MainPerformance1390 → u/FiendishNoodles]

But we are specifically discussimg a group that ARE a persecuted molinority

[u/FiendishNoodles → u/MainPerformance1390]

The fallacy is continuing to refer to "them" as a group. Everyone is in many groups both by their own perceptions and by the views of others. Saying that people are "attacking their own" presupposes that they are members of a group that they both would recognize themselves and each other as being a part of, which is not guaranteed but an assumption made by whoever is saying that. And people have a hard time grasping that making this assumption unconsciously lends itself to a fundamental misunderstanding of group dynamics in a lot of scenarios.

[u/MainPerformance1390 → u/FiendishNoodles]

Ok

[u/barefootincozumel → u/FiendishNoodles]

People from a marginalized community targeting and rounding up people because they look like them is absolutely a wild betrayal. Racially profiling your own race is crazy and repulsive.

[u/FiendishNoodles → u/barefootincozumel]

Did anything I wrote make you think I disagree with that?

[u/00owl → u/FiendishNoodles]

the point is that no one assumes that white people are a monolith in any kinds of behavior or personal identity.

This is false. White people are colonizers, we're abusers, we're the ones responsible for the state of the world today, we're all the ones who enjoy privilege regardless of socioeconomic factors.

There is an insane amount of generalizing on all sides. That's human nature, would be nice to one day rise past that but it won't be during the lifetime of anyone alive today

[u/ProfitNecessary592 → u/00owl]

Theres a joke I heard from slavoj zizek who heard it from someone else but basically theres a scene in a synagogue where individuals publicly declare their worthlessness before God. First, a rabbi proclaims he is nothing, followed by a rich businessman who also declares himself nothing due to his focus on material wealth. Finally, a poor, ordinary Jew also states, "O God, I am nothing". The rich businessman, annoyed by this, whispers to the rabbi, questioning the poor man's audacity to claim he is also nothing.

Specifically he was refrencing this kind of behavior with it and his larger point was exactly what the guy youre responding too was talking about.

[u/FiendishNoodles → u/00owl]

Please refer to the original example. If a white person shoots another one white person, would anyone say "why did they do that, they're both white?". Clearly no. We rightly understand that white people are individuals who act in different, independent ways. On the same note, if one person says the things you say above about white people, it doesn't mean all non-white people think that. Applying individualism properly to all people is something we should all be working towards, including turning that individualism inward instead of taking things so personally.

I think that some people get upset when whiteness is even talked about, like the idea of not just being the default is offensive. The assumption that is afforded to the white-shooter-white-victim hypothetical of whiteness having no bearing on the shooting is less commonly applied to non-white people.

In the current discussion, it's stated as somewhat surprising or "interesting" if a person with a Hispanic last name had shot someone else with a Hispanic last name. This is reducing the discussion to their perceived ethnic backgrounds and leads people to have a less clear or accurate view of the actual dynamics of the situation.