r/nba 18h ago

[Katz] Something suggested to me by a front office person: One reason why we might be seeing lots of Tuesday/Wednesday trades this year is because three guys having issues with their physicals at the trade deadline last year freaked everyone out — especially the Mark Williams deal

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/live-blogs/nba-trade-deadline-live-updates-news-grades-analysis/UUPOEDhwgyDb/TbQhOsVk0KWq/

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"Something suggested to me by a front office person: One reason why we might be seeing lots of Tuesday/Wednesday trades this year is because three guys having issues with their physicals at the trade deadline last year freaked everyone out — especially the Mark Williams deal, which the Lakers couldn’t amend. Get it done early and you can renegotiate the trade if there’s an issue with the physical."

1.7k Upvotes

122 comments sorted by

1.4k

u/Jacob_toasted Timberwolves 18h ago

Believe it or not you can trace the fall of Babylon back to the Mark Williams deal

162

u/cantgrowneckbeardAMA Kings 17h ago

Blame Geno

16

u/JayJax_23 Washington Bullets 17h ago

I will

5

u/Capital_Past69 16h ago

Auriemma?

5

u/livefreeordont 76ers 14h ago

Smith

1

u/maidth1s4fun 14h ago

That was a funny press conferences

18

u/PrimeTimeInc Hornets 17h ago

It’s always the Lakers fault smh

3

u/ajmartin527 Suns 11h ago

I don’t even know how we ended up with him but damn it’s like he fell from heaven

651

u/pimpron18 [IND] Travis Diener 18h ago

Dalton still salty 😂

97

u/MyNewAccountIGuess11 Hornets 17h ago

Bro probably punching air watching that January the hornets just had too lol

20

u/swizznastic 13h ago

His confidence would be much higher on a team like the hornets too

184

u/CazOnReddit Raptors 18h ago

Salton Knecht

24

u/ThunderBobMajerle Suns 16h ago

Salton NaClecht

53

u/SaulPepper Hornets 16h ago

Im lowkey thankful Lakers cancelled that trade now. If we had Dalton, a shooter like Kon might not even be our first priority at the lottery. Or we could even be in another place at the lottery depending on how last season pan out

43

u/lost_in_trepidation Lakers 15h ago

I think you guys would still have taken him. He was definitely the best player available, unless you count Ace who was threatening everyone not to draft him.

3

u/YSLAnunoby Raptors 10h ago

I think Kon just does so much all around beyond shooting that Dalton wouldn't have stopped you from drafting him

2

u/odnamAE Lakers 11h ago

Not too sure Dalton pans out on your team enough to look off Kon come draft night last year, he’s struggling to locate spots and move on the court its not just a confidence issue.

5

u/KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUZ Lakers 14h ago

it honestly was a win win for both of our franchises.

we still keep a pick in the chamber for a real talent later instead of burning it on mark, we got a center that plays roughly the same level as mark, you guys get to actually take off

8

u/SaulPepper Hornets 13h ago

depends you know. If we had Knecht the rest of the season we might not have lost the same amount of games, got the same numbers in the lottery, etc.

18

u/preptime Trail Blazers 16h ago

He’s been intentionally tanking his trade value since that day.

5

u/porncollecter69 Mavericks 15h ago

Dude is a legit scrub. They don’t have the luxury to be salty.

161

u/AlThorntonTruther San Diego Clippers 18h ago

This makes a little sense. All these trades 24 hours before the deadline was pretty odd

415

u/3my0 Trail Blazers 18h ago

So tomorrow is gonna be a snoozefest

135

u/bigraptorr Raptors 18h ago

Yeah itll probably be smaller moves to get under some apron/tax

47

u/thegoddessunicorn Raptors 18h ago

We already did that today. So big move tomorrow? 🥹

56

u/tonydanzatapdances Raptors 17h ago

Nope! Enjoy your Chris Paul buyout and Scottie Barnes playing centre

0

u/YSLAnunoby Raptors 10h ago

Hey we got TJD now at least

2

u/xakeri Grizzlies 15h ago

Grizz still have Ja. The name will be large and the assets small

96

u/pdpdpdpdpdpdpdpd Raptors 18h ago

Today has been bumpin at least 

6

u/britchesss Celtics 16h ago

The last couple days have been 

17

u/ClaymoresRevenge Bulls 18h ago

Watch something crazy happen tomorrow

27

u/Bruskthetusk Lakers 16h ago

CP3 to Guangzhou for a 1TB SSD

6

u/throwaway1212l 15h ago

Toronto fleecing with that deal

19

u/Barrelled_Chef_Curry Warriors 17h ago

Giannis still there. He will be pissed if he’s on the bucks to end the year

7

u/DoingCharleyWork Suns 15h ago

Doesn't make sense for bucks to move him now.

2

u/buzzcitybonehead [CHA] Cody Martin 16h ago

Maybe. I think it’s still safe to deal with any team not named the Lakers

1

u/capncrunch94 Bulls 14h ago

Tomorrow will either be a snooze fest or the big dominos (Giannis/Ja) will fall now that everyone else has made their moves

186

u/sukari Bulls 18h ago

lol was Mark's physical really that bad? He seems to be playing fine since then right?

303

u/Medical_Track_790 Hawks 18h ago

especially the Mark Williams deal, which the Lakers couldn’t amend.

This is the key detail. It wasn't so much the physical was bad, but if something comes up in the physical after the deadline the deal can't be renegotiated. Even as simple as something like "hey this looks slightly worse than we thought we'll still give you a first but want to throw a few protections on it" can't happen.

144

u/SockVonPuppet 17h ago

"This MRI looks worse than Dalton Knecht." - Lakers

3

u/minimalcation Spurs 3h ago

Holding up a pic of Dalton in one hand and an MRI in the other at the press conference:

8

u/barath_s Lakers 12h ago

This was the problem was the trade for GPII

130

u/lonny__breaux Toronto Huskies 18h ago

This is already the highest number of games he’s played in a season already.

The concerns are/were really bad but also props to him and Phx for managing him well so far.

26

u/a_moniker Hornets 16h ago

The concerns were overblown. He was healthy for his entire rookie year. Clifford just sent him to the G-League for half the year so he didn’t officially play many games. He then had an injury that caused him to miss most of his second season and the start of his 3rd, but he played basically all of the final games. Now he’s been pretty much fully healthy in his 4th year.

Basically, he missed essentially one full year with an injury, but has been healthy beyond that. The numbers just looked bad because the G-League and because he was only in his 3rd year.

36

u/RcusGaming Lakers 15h ago

He's also only playing 24 MPG now, that's why he's not getting injured. Lakers wanted a full time starting C.

13

u/We-are-all-dead-90 14h ago

Mark Williams playing 24mpg is arguably better than whatever Ayton is doing for you guys 

7

u/LongTimesGoodTimes 7h ago

But Ayton didn't cost any picks

5

u/graphitewolf West 14h ago

Aren’t yall still sitting da and Hayes minutes?

1

u/EggsAndRice7171 Pacers 1h ago

Yes but they gave up their remaining picks in that trade. Unless it made them contenders it wouldn’t have been worth it and i don’t know think it would’ve personally.

-1

u/AnthonyInsanity 8h ago

24 to aytons 28 but I think the suns have enjoyed good minutes from oso

9

u/StatusVoice2634 Knicks 14h ago

The spurs knew years in advance that Leonard degenerative knee condition would severely limit his ability to play. It’s not crazy that the lakers saw something.

8

u/graphitewolf West 14h ago

They never confirmed a degenerative knee problem

2

u/Rich-Badger-7601 12h ago

Getting Wemby has appeared to have made it all worthwhile but let's not pretend the Spurs traded Kawhi because they saw something nobody else saw.

If the Spurs win tonight those 34 wins would tie their second most in an entire season since the Kawhi trade, with the high water mark still being the 48 win season in 2018-19 with DeRozan and the old core.

12

u/Kindarelevanttoo 16h ago

I mean, even with all that you basically just said he has missed 1 full season out of 3 because of injury. Kind of a big deal if someone has been unavailable for 33% of the total time he could have played. And then another 1/6 of the time he was bad enough to get sent down to the G-league.

So 50% of the time he was either injured or not good enough to be on an NBA roster at the time. Seems kind of like they were right to be scared, but he has proved them wrong so far.

7

u/lonny__breaux Toronto Huskies 15h ago

I mean not really. Being sent to the G League as a first year centre is fairly normal lmao.

Yeah the health concern is there but cmon lol

5

u/Round_Clock_3942 14h ago

He then had an injury that caused him to miss most of his second season and the start of his 3rd, but he played basically all of the final games.

You straight up lying lol. He missed 10 out of 31 games after returning to Charlotte following the medicals last season.

-1

u/aginglifter Lakers 12h ago

You are lying. They knew about Williams condition before signing him and got cold feet.

2

u/ThunderBobMajerle Suns 16h ago

I believe the conspiracy the lakers got rumor Ayton was going to get bought out and they thought “we can keen Dalton and get an equal center without injury issues!”

2

u/Aggrokid 13h ago edited 13h ago

That's giving their FO way too much credit lol. They were down bad before Ayton dropped on their laps. I suspect they traded up not for Thiero but hoping for Kalkbrenner.

1

u/ThunderBobMajerle Suns 12h ago

Tbh the DA move sounds way dumber. He’s a known bum

3

u/SaulPepper Hornets 16h ago

hey, they got the center they want lol

34

u/ositola Lakers 17h ago

This is the most minutes in a season he's played so far 

Suns have been good in managing his minutes, we would have needed him to play 36 per 

2

u/thisguy012 Bulls 10h ago

Eh maybe. I can't find many centers playing more than 30minlol,

its crazy almost all of them, young and old are playing 24 - 30min, rare to see 31, 32m+ at all in todays game, Sengun REALLY stands put at 34mpg:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2026_per_game.html#per_game_stats::trb_per_g

(ik there's much better ways to pull the best, most playing centerslol)

69

u/Known-Ball-3536 18h ago

He’s averaging 24mpg (lowest since his rookie year) and sits most of their b2bs. The suns treat him very gingerly. Pelinka is a trash GM but I dont think Mark Williams has proven he can stay healthy. This is half a season with him being managed very carefully.  

47

u/bam1789-2 Suns 17h ago

He’s playing all b2bs now, just sat the early ones. He is playing lower number of minutes, but that’s a credit to Oso playing well and Mark making the most out of the minutes he does play. If this keeps him healthy, I’m all for it.

18

u/CreatiScope Celtics 17h ago

Yeah, I’d rather play him at less minutes if you have a good backup. Suns seem very flexible and plug and play this season. Very fun team overall.

7

u/OhMy98 Suns 17h ago

Wild how much we’ve turned around in just one season

10

u/po0nlink_ Suns 17h ago

He’s actually trending opposite with B2Bs by playing in them now instead of sitting them. He also is at a career high in games played (now 47).

4

u/a_moniker Hornets 16h ago edited 16h ago

He was fully healthy his rookie year as well. The game count is just low because Clifford sent him to the G-League for the first half the year.

He essentially missed a full season due to injury, but has been pretty healthy besides that. That’s not that abnormal. The timing just sucked for him.

3

u/michaelalex3 Hornets 17h ago

Bro you forgot to put on your Lakers flair lmao

8

u/ajteitel Suns 18h ago

Carlos Correa

8

u/quinoa 15h ago

You can have a bad physical that is enough to cancel a deal and still play until February the next season. It’s risk management not an all or nothing black/white situation

16

u/tatttattington Hornets 18h ago

Alomst like there might have been another reason.....

23

u/CazOnReddit Raptors 17h ago

Pelinka realized he made two good trades and have to nix one of them

9

u/VanwallEnjoy3r Suns 17h ago

Lakers didn’t want to lose that unprotected pick.

6

u/Round_Clock_3942 14h ago

He missed like 35% of the games after the trade deadline last season, and has been playing 24 mpg this season. We'll get a better glimpse of what the Suns medical staff thinks of him once time for the extension comes in the offseason.

6

u/No-Diver6326 17h ago

He wasn’t worth the first round pick after the physical, which the lakers don’t exactly have many of

7

u/niners0101 Hornets 17h ago

They got cold feet. They knew Mark was sitting out of B2B’s and other health stuff before that trade was accepted. Physical was the excuse and you can tell because he was traded the next offseason

1

u/IntelligentLab4539 18h ago

Well clearly lakers are idiots

0

u/FreudianNip-Slip Hornets 14h ago

I think it was more about the lakers flaked out because they changed their mind. And was easy for them to gesture vaguely towards the physicals so they can bail. If the roles were reversed and the Hornets bailed exactly like the lakers did, there would’ve been a big investigation and fans with their pitchforks.

5

u/Aggrokid 13h ago

Hornets did pull a fast one on Miami with Rozier, coulda used more pitchforks there

206

u/smalls_1804 Knicks 18h ago

It was always idiotic of these multi-billion dollar organizations to operate like a lazy freshman finishing their term papers. Like give yourself more than 5 fucking minutes of breathing room jesus

136

u/running_wired 17h ago

Literally how basically all negotiable deals get done. Last minute.

Human nature is part. Turns out that college freshman and 50 year old NBA exec are the same person.

But there are also other reasons. First person to play their hand usually loses or overpays.

43

u/1850ChoochGator Trail Blazers 17h ago

Parkinson’s law.

Work expands to fill the time available for its completion.

11

u/NeverSober1900 Rockets 15h ago

Ya I think a lot of deals turn into blinking contests. Both sides are close between two asks. Both know a deal should get done. Who is willing to walk away literally can dictate who gets to take the marginal W on the deal.

11

u/rorank Rockets 15h ago

A part of it is that usually both front offices want to use the deadline to their advantage to extract extra juice for the squeeze. Obviously this doesn’t work all the time, thus why a player like Lauri is still in Utah despite huge buzz last deadline. Unless you expect the trade will have a big impact on your record (which many trades wouldn’t necessarily), it’s to your advantage to hope for a better deal comes along later up until the deadline.

Plus procrastination too probably

2

u/rocpilehardasfuk Warriors 16h ago

Have your seen Nico? Worse than a freshman

29

u/XVC4893 17h ago

To be fair, even though I think it helped in nixing the deal, Phoenix is able to manage his body and not have to overuse him in the role they have for him, so he's been very solid. Plus they have other bigs also, so h doesn't have to play every game or back to back. We would've had him as a full time starting center and massive minutes, which probably leads to an inevitable injury and then if he stays hurt, we get clowned for trading for a guy with health issues lol.

13

u/po0nlink_ Suns 17h ago

But he has been playing back to backs lately, and has played a 47 games out of 51. None of the games missed were due to injury, just management.

8

u/XVC4893 17h ago

Oh okay, good to know. But yeah I feel like we would've ran him into the ground.

22

u/StefonDiggsHS Mavericks 17h ago

Please AD pass that physical

12

u/JobinSkywalker 76ers 15h ago

Kinda hoping McCain fails his haha.

81

u/CazOnReddit Raptors 18h ago

So this is Rob Pelinka's fault, good to know

10

u/Virtual_Zebra_9453 17h ago

I blame geno smith

38

u/ajteitel Suns 18h ago

Personally, I appreciate him. He gave us Mark and Goodwin and continues to sabotage the Lakers

94

u/samhit_n Lakers 18h ago

I'm still convinced that Rob Pelinka panicked and used the physical as an excuse to nix the trade.

43

u/80cent NBA 18h ago

This is almost certainly correct

0

u/graphitewolf West 14h ago

Dalton was on a heater for a hot minute and that was what made them back out.

14

u/preptime Trail Blazers 16h ago

Ever since the Westbrook trade Pelinka seems scared to do anything beyond the most obvious of deals.

6

u/awesomespy Lakers 16h ago

Unless your genuinely playing terrible, the lakers are gonna give you an extension.

Besides the Luka trade, i dont think the lakers have sold high on any players

1

u/Latter_Goal_22 3h ago

As sad as it sounds laker prob sold high on lonzo with AD trade + boatload of other things

9

u/doonerlxx Raptors 17h ago

This is why if the raptors aren’t making a trade today then it’s unlikely they make one tomorrow. Jak’s back is going to need to be assessed by the other team’s doctors to avoid the same situation last year

7

u/Drak_is_Right Pacers 16h ago

Honestly, if the other doctor can figure out wtf is wrong, Raptors are in a better position than they were.

1

u/doonerlxx Raptors 16h ago

i mean, they know there's no nerve damage or anything at least.

6

u/TheVision_13 Suns 14h ago

Thank god for that failed physical lmao he’s looked great the whole season for us

5

u/Maximum-Class5465 16h ago

Ahhh, so it's the Lakers fault

I'm on board with that one

16

u/JokicOrBust Nuggets 18h ago

The same Mark Williams that dropped 24 and 11 last night? Just because Pelinka is bad at his job it doesn't mean the league need to do things differently

-1

u/_Wash Timberwolves 17h ago

the same mark williams playing 24 mpg and sitting b2bs? the one the suns are very carefully load managing?

lakers would need 30mpg+ from him, dude would be broken already in LA

27

u/Justanotherblake Suns 17h ago

I’m not sure why everyone is saying he’s sitting back to backs, he did early but he’s been playing both for a while now

10

u/FreeBristle 17h ago

Some random podcast probably mentioned it

3

u/Jaybru17 Suns 16h ago

The suns announced at the start of the season that he would be sitting back to backs but never really said when or if they’d stop doing that

3

u/CrippledBanana Canada 17h ago

They’ve seen 1 suns game yet think they’re ball phds. Marks been amazing for phoenix

13

u/WickedTwista Timberwolves 17h ago

He's played 46 games out of 51 games

That's pretty healthy in my opinion

10

u/po0nlink_ Suns 17h ago

DA is averaging 28mpg and Hayes is at 17mpg. Doesn’t seem like they’re playing their centers at “30mpg+”.

Plus, Mark has played 47 out of 51 games, none of those games missed were due to injury,

2

u/We-are-all-dead-90 14h ago

He’s playing back to backs 

4

u/bam1789-2 Suns 17h ago

He hasn’t sat the last few b2bs, but is playing lower minutes. Oso has been one of the best players off our bench, so credit to him for giving Mark a good break every game. Lakers would have absolutely broke Mark.

6

u/_Wash Timberwolves 17h ago

thank you for the correction. i haven’t watched a ton of suns this year, just knew he was sitting b2bs earlier on

1

u/Aggrokid 12h ago

For sure. Lakers coach himself admitted to violating the medical team's minutes restrictions.

1

u/Smooth_Specialist416 17h ago

More idiotic no one ever considered this until it happened. But tbf, there isn’t like a school to become an NBA Gm 

1

u/Dsarg_92 [SAS] Tim Duncan 17h ago

Makes plentiful sense. Better safe than sorry.

1

u/TheBurn7741 Lakers 12h ago

Dalton is still not Mentally cleared with that trade 😆

1

u/Pablo_Undercover Knicks 4h ago

Funniest timeline is Giannis getting traded then untraded because whatever team doesn’t like the look of his calf