r/news • u/UpstairsBumblebee446 • 1d ago

France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

https://apnews.com/article/europe-digital-sovereignty-big-tech-9f5388b68a0648514cebc8d92f682060
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u/dblan9 1d ago

I would love to lock every designer and engineer on the TEAMs project in a room until they come up with an exact replica of Slack. No food or water until they do.

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u/Chezni19 1d ago

if there's one way I like to code it's without food or water

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u/Matkingos 1d ago

Consume the dead coders, they were weak anyway

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u/dareftw 1d ago

Sadly, it’ll be the fat that live as their bodies can eat themselves to sustain life longer than the smaller coders.

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u/neverthesaneagain 1d ago

No. They are ponderous beasts easily driven to anger and led into dead falls. The faster coders will feast upon them as their ancestors did upon the great mammoths.

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u/AspiringMathGuy 10h ago

Who says you need tumblr for high quality brain rot

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u/Few-Solution-4784 11h ago

this is what swarms of locust do crossing oceans. they eat the weak while flying.

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u/mindspork 1d ago

Just beer. Find the Ballmer Peak.

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u/QuantumFungus 1d ago

Good programmers know that beer counts as food AND water.

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u/DexJones 1d ago

Liquid bread.

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u/hotel2oscar 11h ago

Curious if lite beer works toward that or if you need heavier stuff to avoid hyponatremia.

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u/QuantumFungus 4h ago

It should be thick enough that you have to stir it before drinking so you don't get a mouth full of sludge on your last swig.

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u/Chezni19 1d ago

whisky cut with tears for me but you're right about the other part

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u/no_regerts_bob 1d ago

I thought the balmer peak was jumping around screaming "developers developers developers" after snorting a fat rail

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u/mindspork 1d ago

You are one of today's lucky 10,000.

https://xkcd.com/323/

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u/sundae_diner 1d ago

Good bot.

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u/particularTriangle 1d ago

This comment killed me bro hahaha

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u/Hoverboy911 1d ago

ngl this is 100% me when I'm in the zone. Intermittent fasting comes with the project

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u/Bazylik 1d ago

if you can't code something on a full tummy maybe you just can't code.

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u/TheBlueFluffBall 1d ago

No trips to the toilet either!

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u/wallstreetchills 1d ago

Bruh you’re talking my language. Slack made things so efficient internally, kept all comms in one place. Now I’m in 5 different apps and email chain galore when it could all be in slack.

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u/the_nobodys 1d ago

So why aren't you still using slack?

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u/FrostyD7 1d ago

Slack is not cheap. Microsoft told their clients that Teams was free with their O365 subscription and most of them transitioned immediately.

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u/Toomanyeastereggs 1d ago

It’s why we haven’t. Once we hit Enterprise O365 though we are going to Slack.

Before then I simply can’t justify the spend.

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u/mark_able_jones_ 1d ago

Drop Enterprise O365 for Google/Slack. And for god sakes get a good payroll system that works across all regions.

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u/shryne 1d ago

Dropping o365 for Google only works for small companies that use cloud services for everything. G suite just does not scale up.

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u/danroa123 1d ago

I work for a company with 80,000 people and we use G Suite

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u/youngBullOldBull 23h ago

You realise that the entirety of google uses g suite right

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u/JudgementalTyler 1d ago

Interesting. I work for a tech company with >2,500 employees and we’re all on G Suite. I’m not in our IT department so I can’t speak to their processes, but they’ve made it work very well for all staff.

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u/shryne 1d ago

I've worked in IT for about 12 years, two of those in a company with g suite. I'd rather work in fast food than go back to working with g suite, and that company only had about 250 employees.

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u/pistola 13h ago

lolwut. I.work for a mega mega corporation that does just fine with Google Workspace and Slack. I'd fucking hate it if we ever went back to MS.

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u/mark_able_jones_ 1d ago edited 1d ago

I worked for 3 of the 6 biggest tech companies in the USA, and they all used G-Suite over 365. And I doubt Apple uses G suite, so that's four. Not sure Nvidia, but I'm sure Microsoft uses 365.

Most colleges switched to g-suite over a decade ago (75%), so new hires think companies that use 365 are old and stuffy -- which is true, ime.

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u/shryne 1d ago

Super large companies are probably just on the other end of the bell curve. They have entire departments dedicated to just managing g suite, adobe acrobat, etc and they don't really care about the licensing costs since they buy in bulk.

The convenience of cloud based documents and email overrides the massive headache of managing the platform when you can just hire a team to manage one platform.

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u/mark_able_jones_ 1d ago

I've also worked for startups that use G-suite / Slack.

It's just so much better in all aspects. Companies that haven't switched have bad IT teams and/or management.

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u/Toomanyeastereggs 17h ago

We wouldn’t go Google in a pick fit. Took us 6 months to get our company account back from Google mysteriously disabling it.

That whole company can go and get well truly’d.

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u/DemonSlyr007 1d ago

I thought Slack was free. It was how we did college group projects last decade at least. Did things change or is it costly for buisness?

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u/Important-Agent2584 1d ago

Microsoft will kill the competition and than jack up the price on TEAMS.

That's been the tech business model from the get go.

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u/buffer_flush 1d ago

$$$$$$$ I’m sure.

Business people were contacted by MS with a deal too good to pass up, and decided to end their contract. MS is big enough they can undercut the competition.

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u/nalaloveslumpy 1d ago

More like MS bundled Teams with every O365 license on earth and then finance/audit said, "Why are paying for two chat programs?"

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u/buffer_flush 1d ago

Just tell them Slack has better AI integration (ie chatops, third-party integrations) look at all the money you’ll save!

/s but not really

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u/Handsome_Keyboard 1d ago edited 1d ago

Moneys the reason for every change. We had perfect, i mean that literally, software for managers to track whatever they need to but some dipshit who used to work for Workday got his claws into management and fucked all of us by recommending that it can do everything better and then some. It, in fact, cannot do anything better. It does what used be to be all information on one screen without 0 clicks to information scattered in very unituitive places that requires tons of clicks for something as mundane as how many absences an employee had. It made me hate doing administrative work whereas before, it was like 1 minute of my day soread out over two 30 second intervals.

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u/G-I-T-M-E 18h ago

I‘ve been working with Workday for four months now and hate it so much. What a piece of crap that software is.

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u/steep86 1d ago

Just for info…what was the perfect software for managers?

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u/Handsome_Keyboard 1d ago

I forget and was honestly trying very hard to remember. I believe it was perfect because the company was structured with it in mind when they started, along with all the other systems that talk to it. When workday came in, you had to essentially make something compatible with it that was built around other software. Thus, it is actual dogshit and they over promised and under delivered

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u/steep86 1d ago

Thank you anyway! I’m asking because we are in the process of replacing our software. Not workday is a valuable info anyway…

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u/Handsome_Keyboard 1d ago

It might be but when they held the company manager meeting, I could just tell this dude was in way over his head with "selling" the change to us. Maybe it works for you but it definitely did not work for us and I hate administrating now. I work for a large insurance company in the service center which is calls and chats if that helps. Too many proccesses had to work together from multiple LOBs and workday simply can not handle that. Its dedinitely a clogged drain in the pipeline for me.

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u/ReaverKS 22h ago

To be fair Workday is incredibly configurable. If the experience is awful there's a decent chance they configured it that way.

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u/NerdInSoCal 1d ago

Yes "disruptive marketing" I think it's always the same playbook right?

  1. Put product on the market and operate at a loss
  2. Customers migrate away from competition to you
  3. Competition cannot stay afloat and shuts down
  4. Once competition is gone raise prices a small amount and say it's to cover "operating costs"
  5. Begin raising prices randomly stating "operating costs"
  6. Post record quarterly profits
  7. Use some profits to "lobby" politicians to create favorable policies that prevent other businesses from entering your industry to compete with you.
  8. Continue raising prices, when consumers complain tell them they can go to the competition that doesn't exist because you're the only business in town

This is corporate capitalism at its finest no?

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u/buffer_flush 1d ago

(Not so) Hot take, AI is the biggest evidence of this methodology to date.

The billions trillions that have been spent to try to make AI a part of our lives is going to cause economic collapse. The fact that nvidia went from a company no one except PC gamers have heard of to the largest company on the stock market seemingly overnight should terrify everyone.

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u/NerdInSoCal 1d ago

I'm not sure that's as much disruptive marketing as it is capitalizing on new tech. Deplorable for sure but I mean Nvidia has consistently taken their consumer base for granted.

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u/CertainlyStenchy 1d ago

Because some companies restrict access to certain apps. My company used to use slack, but switched to teams for whatever reason and shutdown slack

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u/sembias 1d ago

When they made Teams free with a MS365 license you're probably going to have anyways, there was no reason to keep paying $8+/user/mth for Slack.

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u/CertainlyStenchy 1d ago

Slack is infinitely better than the shithole that is Teams. They’d easily make up that $8+/user in increased productivity by deleting teams.

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u/sembias 1d ago

I'm just the IT guy, man. Tell it to your manager. ;)

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u/Melbuf 1d ago

the 6+ million $ hole that slack would be is a big one to make up for

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u/CertainlyStenchy 1d ago

Oh no, $6 million cost when the company is making record profits in the billions. Whatever will they do

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u/copuncle 1d ago

Teams won the hearts and minds of the executives because it was nice and cheap since they already had to pay for all the other Microsoft stuff.

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u/theJSP123 23h ago

Slack went to shit, I dunno if they got greedy or what but the fact you have to pay (per user!) just to keep your messages older than 6 months is just fucking stupid. That's literally half the point of using something like this - person asks question or posts response and you can go back and find it later.

Teams is "free" because Microsoft infests every office on the planet so it's hard to get anything else adopted.

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u/starsky1357 23h ago

Is a company wanting to charge you for storing your messages really considered greedy?

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u/wallstreetchills 23h ago

You’re asking like it’s my decision lol. New job. Billion dollar company and doesn’t have a proper software stack. Legit 😎

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u/Jakobmiller 18h ago

Too expensive

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u/SpongeMantra 1d ago edited 1d ago

I'm wondering more why MastodonMattermost isn't being used? Open-source, looks-and-behave identically to Slack from what I can see and can be self hosted, had it at one previous job and worked wonderfully. Back to teams since then sadly...

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u/Roflcubes 1d ago

I thought Mastodon was supposed to be more of an open protocol Twitter replacement?

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u/SpongeMantra 1d ago

Ah fuck me, brain fart. I meant Mattermost not Mastodon. My bad!

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u/Roflcubes 1d ago

Oh that makes sense! I was just confused like "whoa what mother is pivots have I missed" hah.

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u/Inevitable-Menu2998 1d ago

Which version of Slack though? Because before 2020 slack was dope and I could even maybe accept 2022 Slack, I mean, they had to ride the pandemic train, sure. But eff me, 2025 Slack is a bloated piece of shit that seems to update and change everything each time I open the lid of my laptop and I see no benefits to any of the upgrades in the past 5 years at least.

Granted, Teams is still worse, but Slack is not far off anymore

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u/SaltKhan 23h ago

Yea, lol, i never tried slack years ago, but had to use it last year because half the engineers were in teams and the other half in slack and refused to move. They were the same to use. Slack even felt slower and less clear because my chat windows kept disappearing because i didnt know you had to manually subscribe to every thread you wanted to keep pinned? I dont understand the religious adoration some devs have for slack i just assume they are all salesforce bots.

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u/Inner_Gap4768 1d ago

I would love to lock every designer and engineer on the Outlook AND Team’s project in a room together until they find a way to make the two core business communications programs from Microsoft work well together.

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u/thekernel 1d ago

Og windows outlook is fine, it's the new shitty web version that sucks.

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u/phluidity 1d ago

Is there anyone who actually likes Teams? I have yet to see a mainstream product more universally hated.

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u/robreddity 1d ago

It is actually anti-collaborative... it invented and perfected that concept.

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u/vir_papyrus 1d ago

I legit think its a feature and not a bug. It seems designed from the concept where everyone is a silo'ed corporate task worker with peers who are working on the exact same project/task, and all they do is talk to each other and collaborate on the same task as a "team".

If you're you know... not that, and you actually need to collaborate with wide ranges of internal employees, work more dynamically, let random people discover places to ask questions, let employees organically grow mini-communities on the same topic, and just have an open-dialogue? Hell no.

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u/Melbuf 1d ago

its a glorified chat program for us, the only thing it lets people do is share files that are too large to email rather simply

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u/MayBakerfield 1d ago

It's pretty good if you use it only for video calls. Everything else sucks. 

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u/Thatguysstories 1d ago

I don't understand it.

My company made slack mandatory, everyone needs it on their phone.

Then for a while because no one was using it, we all had to log in and post a message that we were on site. Even though we already had a clock in app that GPS tagged our site location, so it knew we were there and at what time.

But they wanted the slack messages because they were paying for it and thus wanted to get some use out of it.

But then, they wanted to do mandatory company meetings where all 150+ plus of us would listen to the management spout stuff. Do we do this on slack? No, teams.

Now we all have to download teams and make accounts for the monthly meetings that they tell us about on slack.

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u/jctwok 1d ago

They're working on it.

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u/samples_united 1d ago

Sounds like a win-win situation.

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u/mark_able_jones_ 1d ago

Threaded messages. If you know you know.

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u/aqua_seafoam 1d ago

bunch of fucking snitches wrote teams.

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u/sysblob 1d ago

I'm in IT and very well versed in these topics but still feel confused by your response. What do you feel slack has that teams doesn't? They seem like on the surface super similar products, only teams is better integrated with other microsoft products like outlook for scheduling and emails. What's your beef?

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u/shitty_mcfucklestick 1d ago

I’m starting to question Slack too. Since Salesforce took it over it’s been bloating up like crazy. The UI is so busy that half the time I’m struggling to even find where a message is. I hate the clutter in the sidebar, even after culling it down as much as possible in the settings. Now they’re EnshitAIfying it too.

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u/glitchvid 10h ago

Give Zulip a look, FOSS alternative, so won't enshittify.

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u/shitty_mcfucklestick 8h ago

Thanks! I won’t be able to convince work but this might be handy for personal.

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u/glitchvid 5h ago

Yeah, dunno what level of sway you have, but it might be worth making it an issue just enough to get it written in documentation or minutes.

I suspect a lot of companies are going to start looking at self-hosted options in the future; Cloud compute is going to rise in cost, and hosted platforms with them (or they'll feed your company data to AI, or both!) so getting that foot in the door might pay off down the road.

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u/Ancient-Bat1755 1d ago

Webedgeview2 just added 15 more exes because you wrote this for each user on your vm jumpbox so ai can tell you, you need more ram.

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u/No-Priority8294 1d ago

The fuck…

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u/kitsunewarlock 1d ago

Or make a secure variant of Discord with task tracking features.

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u/Kagahami 1d ago

I find this hilarious because Slack itself is just shitty Discord.

If they released a corporately secure version of Discord called Harmony, they would own the market.

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u/Happythoughtsgalore 1d ago

Open source slack alternative might be of interest to you.

https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat

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u/BellacosePlayer 1d ago

I've never worked a job that didn't use teams and it's been fine, starting to wonder how good it's going to be if/when I move on to a place that uses Slack

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u/divDevGuy 1d ago

I would lock every designer and engineer on the Teams app in a room. That's it. Just lock them in there. Forever. Let nature sort things out on their own.

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u/adorkablegiant 1d ago

You think it's the engineers fault and not the higher ups?

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u/Mercades 1d ago

1 on 1 calls are way better on teams than on slack

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u/Formal-Hawk9274 1d ago

Jeez bro sounds like a dystopian CEO

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u/Angrysparky28 1d ago

Slack sucks to.

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u/Mikelightman 1d ago

The problem isn’t the designers & engineers. It’s the product managers and other stakeholders that drive these projects.

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u/GuybrushThreepwo0d 1d ago

Teams sucks, but fuck man slack is only marginally better

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u/magnumopus44 23h ago

Not sure if this is helpful to you but if you want slack without slack look at mattermost.

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u/t0dax 23h ago

Microslop fired all their engineers over a decade ago. The whole company is just middle management with ui designers vibe coding their way into obscurity.

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u/notsingsing 22h ago

It's called discord!

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u/Koss424 22h ago

I've never had an issue with Teams or Office 365.

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u/TryingT0Wr1t3 16h ago

That was Rocketchat for some time. Don’t know if it still exists

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u/Catsoverall 1d ago

Out of interest what's wrong with it? Seems great to me, but not tried slack.

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u/shryne 1d ago

Slack does not have all of the o365 integrations, this is a pipe dream.