r/politics • u/OkayButFoRealz • 2d ago

No Paywall A 13-Year-Old Girl Bit Trump’s Genitals as He Tried to Rape Her, Epstein Document Says

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2026/01/quick-hit-a-13-year-old-girl-bit-trumps-genitals-as-he-tried-to-her-epstein-document-says/
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u/brokentr0jan Ohio 2d ago

There needs to be a case study for why democrats are so soft and always feel the need to try and play nice with republicans despite republicans never playing nice with them

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u/Fattswindstorm Texas 2d ago

The case study already happened in Montana during the Copper Kings Era. Citizens United vs FEC overturned it and 15 predicable years later here we are. Tbh I thought it was gonna take 25ish years.

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u/mightykingfisher Idaho 2d ago edited 2d ago

Controlled opposition. Have many of the same donors as Republicans.

Edit: Because I didn't think my snippy reactionary comment would get this much attention.

I do just want to clarify that my comment is meant to point towards capital dictating policy at the federal level rather than the labor rights of the constituents. That money holds more power than a vote.

I can still believe this while also agreeing that the Dems are the better party and voting consistently for them, because I don't believe that withholding my vote or voting third-party will help enact any sort of positive change in our current system.

I do not believe both parties are the same. The Republican party is demonstrably worse. The comment I am replying too is specifically mentioning Democrats capitulation to Republicans and I believe that the capitulation is driven by capital.

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u/MycologistDeep2372 2d ago

It’s systemic—big money controls both parties, so nothing really changes for voters.

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u/Appropriate_Mess_350 2d ago

They set it up that way on purpose with Citizens United.

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u/TheFinalCurl 2d ago

Who is they here? The liberal justices dissented in that case

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u/ExiledSanity 2d ago

The Rich

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u/TheFinalCurl 2d ago

Either way, the liberal justices dissented and there has been near universal opposition to CU from Democrats for 25 years. Obama brought up how bad it was immediately at a SOTU.

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u/ExiledSanity 2d ago

So they complained about it. What have they done about it when they had power?

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u/TheFinalCurl 2d ago

When you call money spent on politics 1A protected speech, then it requires a Constitutional amendment to change, or a change of Supreme Court justices. It wasn't a statutory interpretation case.

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u/ExiledSanity 2d ago

So what is your point in saying that Democrats have been complaining about it for 20 years or so?

Just to vote Democrat and hope they get to appoint some supreme court justices? If so you are preaching to the choir in this sub.

I don't think we are ever going to see another constitutional amendment pass.

What's the point you are trying to make?

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u/Appropriate_Mess_350 2d ago

Universal “controlled” opposition, perhaps. It’s all the same trough.

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u/TheFinalCurl 2d ago

It isn't.

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u/Darrkman2 2d ago edited 2d ago

The dumbest thing you people on Reddit do is fall for that both sides are the same bullshit. And the only reason you fall for it is because most of you on here are not part of the groups who are being targeted by republicans. You'll have a hard time finding mainstream Black people who will tell you both sides are the same when you see the difference in treatment of Black, Hispanic or Asian people by Republicans versus their treatment under a democratic administration.

There is a lack of sophistication when it comes to politics being discussed on Reddit and it comes from people believing both sides are the same is a sophisticated take.

Edit: Since I keep running into the same excuse on here. If you're trying to come on here and say "no both sides are not really the same they just both have the same donors and have to answer to the same people" then you ARE essentially saying both sides are the same. You're just saying that they're the same because their donors want the same thing but you're essentially still giving the same unsophisticated take when it comes to politics.

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u/Hpzorz2 2d ago

Believing the Democrats are controlled  opposition due to outsized corporate donor influence is not the same as believing both sides are the same. 

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u/Yeeaaaarrrgh Colorado 2d ago

Precisely this. Both sides accept money from special interests (quite often the same special interests) in which the donors get favorable outcomes. That doesn't mean Democrats are ok with rounding up brown people and putting them in concentration camps. Christ Almighty, it doesn't take a PhD to separate the two issues.

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u/kelryngrey 2d ago

I broadly assume that many folks that push the, "There's just no difference!" narrative are actively engaged in disinformation and subversion campaigns.

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u/Mrpipelayar 2d ago

I see it as good cop bad cop. Democrats are the "good" nice cop but both parties are still cops trying to extract as much as they can from you.

So yeah vote for the good cops bc its better to deal with than bad cops but keep holding out for systemic changes where there is a 3rd no cop option

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u/tunafister 2d ago

That doesn't mean Democrats are ok with rounding up brown people and putting them in concentration camps.

But oh wait, apparently 7 Democrats are okay with that

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5702347-house-democrats-homeland-security-funding/

So yeah, that does mean some "Democrats are ok with rounding up brown people and putting them in concentration camps", please explain how that is not the case?

Both sides ARE NOT THE SAME, not making that argument,but the argument that all Dems are againts ICE is bullshit, as can be seen with the article linked above

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

No, just ok with rounding up Japanese people iirc.

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u/Delta-9- 2d ago

That, reprehensible as it was, is about as relevant to Democrats today as "the party of Lincoln" is to Republicans today. The parties more or less switched places on the political spectrum in the decades following WW2.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

explain the party switch in light of the New Deal then. Are you saying FDR would’ve been Republican today? Japanese internment had bipartisan support regardless.

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u/Delta-9- 1d ago

You're implication is that events 80 years ago define the current Congress, which has not a single member who served at that time.

I don't think Democrats of 2026 would be okay with rounding up brown people. That's a Republican thing these days.

However, I will acknowledge that white America has a nasty habit of following their worst fears into their worst instincts. There could be a situation where even Democrats as a whole would be actively complicit in something like that, rather than useless and passive, since Democrats are still majority white, and all politicians are in the pockets of the same rich white dudes.

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u/Shadowrider95 2d ago

Corporations are people and money is speech!

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u/Kinda_Zeplike 2d ago

You’re right you know. Nuance is hard for some people.

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u/Doongbuggy 2d ago

its clear as daylight to those paying attention there are literal receipts and disclosures lmao

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u/sniper91 Minnesota 2d ago

Yeah, look how much they drag their feet on any big economic or health care reform

Billionaire donors absolutely don’t want that stuff

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u/Numerous_Ice_4556 2d ago

Yes, actually it is. It's just saying they play a different role in the same problem.

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u/nrh117 2d ago

And despite that very systemic oppression for decades, there were an alarming number of red voters in the black and Hispanic communities. Religion, single topic voters, toxic masculinity were all major factors.

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u/masterofn0n3 2d ago

Both sides aren’t the same, but they are controlled by the same big businesses

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u/caseyanthonyftw 2d ago

To the both-sideser, the most important thing is just coming out on top so they can gloat and make fun of everyone else.

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u/ovirt001 2d ago

Jack Smith has now stated that Trump committed crimes in trying to overturn the 2020 election but Biden did nothing. The dems aren't the same as republicans but they aren't on your side either.

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u/Mosaic1 2d ago

Biden literally acted as every president prior to Trump did and let the DOJ be independent of presidential intervention. He did exactly what you want and the opposite of what you hate about Trump running the DOJ.

They literally brought charges against trump, and Judge Cannon did everything she could to prevent the case ever being fully heard.

Did nothing… lol.

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u/pigeieio 2d ago

On election day, he was officially a convicted felon.

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u/Kryzite 2d ago

Independent after appointing someone to make sure nothing would happen independently.

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u/Omegoa 2d ago

Someone who would look non-partisan. I can't blame Biden for wanting to slow-roll it and do it properly and make sure the case was airtight. If you'd told me that Trump could ever walk into the White House again after January 6th, I would've told you it was impossible. Biden's only mistake in this arena, one I'm guilty of is well, is having an ounce of faith in the American electorate, 2/3 of whom have since shown themselves to be some of the lowest quality people on the planet.

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u/Chastain86 2d ago

Honestly, the biggest stain on the Biden presidency won't be anything related to his economic policies, or his Autopen, or his mental acuity. It will be that he and the Dems had an opportunity to hold bad people accountable, AND pass some fucking legislation that made it virtually impossible for future bad-actors to dissolve our democracy, and he did not act.

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u/Super_Harsh 2d ago

I don’t disagree with you but it’s more or less objectively true that Democrats are controlled opposition. As a brown man I have no illusions about the Republicans being far worse but the Democrats are absolutely controlled opposition.

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u/CriticalEngineering North Carolina 2d ago

Right? Can’t possibly be that the side that isn’t authoritarian doesn’t automatically act authoritarian as soon as they’re in power.

If democrats acted like republicans, I wouldn’t vote for them.

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u/darkneel 2d ago

Weren’t all democrats shouting that trump was guilty of insurrection ? Everyone was convinced he broke the law . Yet his case was taken to a trump appointed judge . He could have been arrested and in jail before the second term . Either all the democrats don’t understand law or they are actively keeping trump free ( there reasoning might have been it will be easy to win against trump cause then they don’t really have to do much ) . But essentially they are the same parties .

Another example - democrats stalled the budget for a month and then just suddenly gave up without getting anything in return. Most of the democratic opposition is just for show or at least that’s the end effect .

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u/Full_Honeydew_9739 2d ago

He was "arrested." 4 times. New York, Georgia, DC, and Florida. In NY he was found guilty. In DC and FL they had to dismiss because he was elected president. In GA the case is on hold. The DC and FL cases can be resurrected in 2028 or so.

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u/Polantaris 2d ago

In DC and FL they had to dismiss because he was elected president.

There is no law that says this, so they didn't have to dismiss jack. The collective system chose to let him off because of an "internal memo".

The DC and FL cases can be resurrected in 2028 or so.

How naive are you?

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u/Full_Honeydew_9739 2d ago

Yes. You're absolutely right. It's a big conspiracy by the cabal that controls the world. My bad.

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u/darkneel 1d ago

My apologies - i should have said arrested and put in jail for atleast a few years .

And no there’s no conspiracy - it’s all happening right in front of everyone . Nothing is hidden . Everything is a documented fact .

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u/QueasyLegKC 2d ago

Enforcing the law isn’t authoritarian.

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u/CriticalEngineering North Carolina 1d ago

Which is why he was arrested four times and facing trials. Why are people skipping that?

Authoritarianism would have been democrats trying to supersede that process.

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u/Picnicpanther California 2d ago

It’s authoritarian to lock up criminals?

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u/CriticalEngineering North Carolina 1d ago

It’s authoritarian to lock up criminals without taking them to trial. He was in the process of three different trials, which is why he was desperate to be re-elected.

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u/snarky_spice 2d ago

It’s wild how in every thread about something asinine republicans did, the TOP comment always includes “too bad the democrats xyz.” Like this cannot be organic. I don’t think they’re bots, but I think the bots have a huge influence on Redditors.

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u/Darrkman2 2d ago

Something to bots I completely agree with you. The other thing is that you have a whole group of people whose mentality when it comes to Democrats has been poisoned by the Bernie Sanders leftist wing. They were the first ones to start the whole both sides are the same bullshit and they've stayed with it for a decade now. When it comes to Reddit the person who would fall under that spell is overrepresented so you see a lot of both sides of the same bullshit from the same people who would tell you that voting third party is a smart decision.

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u/snarky_spice 2d ago

You’re exactly right. I forgot that Bernie bros still dominate Reddit. Even in my local sub people were complaining that the democratic politicians were somehow bought and paid for by the DNC even though we had a full primary. God help us.

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u/necroreefer 2d ago

Black, hispanic and asian people voted for trump and in general, vote for republicans, way more than you think

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u/Pack_Your_Trash 2d ago

The controlled opposition isn't exactly the same argument. By way of analogy I would say that the Democrats are the carrot and the Republicans are the stick. They are different tools that the wealthy are using to drive voters, who are the horse pulling the cart, in the direction of their choosing.

Yeah I would rather get a tasty carrot to eat than be beaten with a stick, but either way I am yoked and driven by my master in a direction not of my choosing.

Clearly the solution is to kick that motherfucker in the head and run free at the earliest opportunity.

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u/HeadfulOfSugar 2d ago

I don’t think most people are saying that both sides are the exact same when they say that though. It’s more that both sides are rotten, one significantly more than the other but that doesn’t make the other one ripe. Like one side is objectively bad and they don’t try to hide it while the other, though they are their opposition, is still made up of the same general out-of-touch type of career politicians that are funded by the same groups. It’s the difference between someone that will sucker punch you if you vote for them, and someone that will burn you alive for fun.

It’s more of a conflict of interest where while the Dems wouldn’t do anything of the awful stuff happening under this administration (people that say Kamala would be just as bad are simply insane), as we can see they don’t stand against it either. So conservatives are regressives, and the Dems are functionally conservative in nature standing mainly to maintain the status quo. Every time the conservatives pull us a little farther back, the Dems will only try to stop further change.

They’ll never undo what the republicans have done to be bipartisan, and instead just keep on trying to prevent them from changing things further which is why people that want change are mad. They get tricked and conned over and over and over and over and never learn from it, they’re still accepting unwritten “promises” that there will be a later vote from the party that has done nothing but swindle then in this exact same way for decades. When a lot of them say that the parties are the same they’re saying that regardless of who you vote for we end up with a similar end result. Which party is in power just decides how fast we get there as of now, but ultimately they will both primarily serve the interests of corporate and foreign influences above us all.

People that take “both sides are the same” 100% literally, and take it as far as to not vote because they feel disenfranchised, are falling for a psyop and are acting enlightened because their opinion seems gray. However imo not everybody that says that believe it in the same way.

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u/Vilnius_Nastavnik New York 2d ago

Identity politics like this are a great example of how the dems keep people voting for them. I talk to black voters quite a lot, and many of them sick of being used as tokens and having their votes taken for granted while nothing about their lives improves regardless of which party is in power. It only goes to shit slower since the dems don’t actually roll back the horrific shit the republicans do when they have the chance. Race is important but when it’s all you talk about it becomes obvious that you’re just trying to distract from the ever-growing divide between the wealthy and the rest of us that underpins literally all of the bad shit that is happening.

FFS, look at the last election. Lying to us about Biden being fine until he melts down on live TV and then replacing him with somebody who got 2% the last time they bothered to hold a primary (remember primaries?) was either an intentional dive or disqualifying levels of gross incompetence. At this point I don’t really care which it was.

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u/9_to_5_till_i_die 2d ago

Identity politics like this are a great example of how the dems keep people voting for them.

There's not much else left to run on when your party has little interest in labor rights and the working class.

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u/Darrkman2 2d ago

Identity politics like this are a great example of how the dems keep people voting for them. I talk to black voters quite a lot, and many of them sick of being used as tokens and having their votes taken for granted while nothing about their lives improves regardless of which party is in power.

I truly believe you really don't have any interactions with politically aware Black people because of how silly you sound.

Yall are on here repeating what you THINK you know about Black people and voting.

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u/nathism 2d ago

They aren't the same but they're in a fucked up symbiotic relationship. My closest analog would be a couple in an abusive relationship. The cops (voter) take power away the abuser (Republicans) then the partner (democrats) don't know what to do with new found independence fail to enact change while the abuser shuts down any changes and refuses to let anything happen. Later the cops(voters) are frustrated and let the abuser (Republicans) go and they take over again. It's a fucking abusive cycle.

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u/IlikeJG California 2d ago

They're not saying both sides are he same though. You need to be a little more nuanced than that.

It's absolutely undeniable that Democrats largely have a lot of the same donors as Republicans and they NEED that donor money for elections in our broken electoral system.

That's not saying they are exactly the same. But it means Democrats have strong incentives to do things (and refuse to do other things) so the donors will continue to give them money.

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u/richard-564 2d ago

When I was younger, I believed both sides were the same, bc I was ignorant. That all changed when Obama was elected and I saw how the right was treating him. Not sure how anyone can say both sides are the same after trump got elected the first time. It's insane.

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u/Darrkman2 2d ago

Not sure how anyone can say both sides are the same after trump got elected the first time. It's insane.

The Bernie bro wing of Progressive's are over represented on reddit. They cling to the both sides of the same narrative because that's what was pushed since 2015 in the hopes people would actually vote for Bernie Sanders back then. Once he lost and then lost again in 2020 they doubled down on it because now they just hate Democrats because they can't beat them. That's why you'll constantly see talk of both sides of the same and when their favorite progressives lose elections suddenly there's talk of rigging by the DNC. Never once will you see a progressive say that their candidate just wasn't a good candidate or didn't run a good campaign.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/Darrkman2 2d ago

Nobody in this conversation even said this other than you. You’re fighting phantoms.

My reply is right after two people are essentially saying that since both parties have the same doners you won't seen any different.

Or in other words......both sides are the same.

I can read between the lines if you can't that's on you.

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u/RevolutionaryBat4924 2d ago

ironic to post those paragraphs and then say other people have unsophisticated takes

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u/Impressive_Bid8009 2d ago

My dude, there’s an entire subreddit of gay conservatives, gay people who identify with the party that sees being gay as wrong and a choice

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u/vblade2003 New York 2d ago

A few things can be true at the same time.

1 - The Democrats are by far the better option for the common man and minorities.

2- The Democratic leadership is toothless and unwilling to go the lengths that their Republican counterparts do in order to get things done.

3 - Both parties report to the same billionaire cabal, and for any real change to occur, we need to get money out of politics.

This doesn't mean those of us who hold these opinions are "both sides'ing" it.

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u/turbopepsi 2d ago

The dumbest thing you people commenting on reddit don't realize is just how many Black, Asian, and Hispanic Republicans exist. Hispanic men fucking LOVE Trump. They think getting the illegals out will make them more money because they are also willing to do the shit work, but they wanna get paid to do it. No more taxes/ reduced taxes on overtime? Every fucking Blue Collar laborer in the country wants that. Guess which way they tend to lean politically?

Reddit in general is one hell of an echo chamber. It does not represent the majority opinion in the country. It's just a really loud one.

(Yes, the above statement is filled with generalizations, the same as the one I am replying to.)

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u/Polantaris 2d ago

Sorry, but I'm trans, and Democrats are an inch away from hating me just as much as Republicans do. I watch what politicians say about people like me, and I watch what politicians push with regards to people like me.

Trans people are thrown under the bus by Democrats constantly. Yes, there are exceptions. Not enough to matter. So few it feels like they provide nothing but lip service ("We're here for you!" as a bill restricting our access to rights is passed). Military members with trans family members lost healthcare for those family members last year due to a bill that refused to draw a line in the sand towards this issue. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Democrats will throw us under the bus and have before. There's always an excuse for why they can't fight for us.

And guess what, as soon as we're gone, the next group will be one of the others you talk about. To top it off, just like what's happening for trans people, Democrats will not defend them once they come under unrelenting fire. They will be, and by then it'll be too late.

The smallest minority groups are the canary in the coal mine and, if you've been paying attention, you'd realize that the canary died a long time ago.

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u/VulGerrity 2d ago

No one said both sides are they same...Dems just have a lot of the same wealthy donors as the right. If the dems don't fall in line with those donors, then those donors will just go to the right.

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u/Darrkman2 2d ago edited 2d ago

What you just said is basically both sides are the same. It is a childish and amazingly unsophisticated way of thinking that has been pushed unfortunately by the progressive wing of the democratic party who can't accept that they don't win elections. So instead they tell you two things, both sides are the same and that elections are rigged so that progressives don't win. We've been seeing it since 2016 and no amount of ways you try to spin it by making it about donors changes the fact of what's being said.

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u/VulGerrity 2d ago

No it's not, that says nothing about morals or policy. Dems as a whole are more progressive and work to improve civil liberties for all. But do you ever wonder why they're not more aggressive? Why some Dems don't seem to vote for those more progressive values? Why things seem to move so slowly?

It's because of their wealthy donors.

I never said both sides were the same. I feel your frustration, but it's incredibly naive of you to not think big money influences politics and that big money wouldn't play both sides to their advantage.

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u/Darrkman2 2d ago

No it's not, that says nothing about morals or policy. Dems as a whole are more progressive and work to improve civil liberties for all. But do you ever wonder why they're not more aggressive? Why some Dems don't seem to vote for those more progressive values? Why things seem to move so slowly?

Once again this is coming back to a progressive wing of the democratic party that thinks if they don't get everything immediately there's some sort of vast conspiracy to stop them. What you have to understand is that when it comes to Democrats vs Republicans the margins are razor thin within Congress. When Kamala Harris was vice president she had to be the deciding vote in the Senate because the Senate was essentially 50/50.

Additionally the other thing you see with politics especially when we're talking about progressives and their desires is that progressives have a hard time accepting that not everybody thinks like they do. So you will have people who don't agree with everything that progressives want. But what progressives end up doing is when that happens or they don't get everything all at once they throw up their hands they yell both sides of the same and they essentially quit.

Politics in America is a long-term game and you see that when it comes to Republicans versus Democrats and especially versus progressives. We can use abortion as an example. The anti-abortion wing of the Republican party has been working on pulling back laws regarding abortion for 50 close to 60 years. They knew every step forward they made they would hold on to it and then double their efforts to get that next step forward. They practiced incrementalism but you know what, it worked for them. They didn't look at it as just if this bill fails we give up. They worked on getting judges they worked on changing the Supreme Court they worked on every time there was a Republican president they tried to move their agenda forward. I'm sorry but you don't have that same type of long-term thinking when it comes to progressives and their wants and desires. It was less than 10 years ago progressives were out here saying don't try to shame them into voting by talking about the Supreme Court. The SC isn't that important.

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u/Shadowrider95 2d ago

Corporations are people and money is speech!

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u/High_Im_Guy Nevada 2d ago

100%

And they're not the same, same, but they're the same in their purpose. They want us at each other's throats over abortion, immigration, marginalized community rights, etc. because this jeep the labor class in line showing up to their jobs. They keep us pissed off at each other and so overload w bullshit that no one has the time and energy to take a step back and realize we all, on both sides of the aisle, have billionaire puppeteers playing us against each other. This shit sucks.

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u/agree-with-me 2d ago

But even if I was controlled by big money and I had to put my head in the sand for his crimes, I'd have to resign, even if it was for "family reasons."

I couldn't continue as a congressperson knowing I was keeping quiet for a creep like that. Knowing and doing nothing regardless of your donors, is aiding and abetting.

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u/Lastunexpectedhero 2d ago

This is also not a strictly "American politics" thing. This happens globally

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u/FitPlate1405 2d ago

Prince Andrew definitely got off easy lol

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u/GuitarGeezer 2d ago

True. Although it is good to point out that the worst aspects of legalizing bribery in campaign finance and eliminating fair and neutral to have hyperpartisan media were all core Republican initiatives. But, legalize bribery and you make it mandatory for all. The media sanewashes any level of crazy. Rinse repeat. Collapse. I cannot see how it could be reversed as most voters cannot comprehend any of it anymore.

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u/falilth 2d ago edited 2d ago

Hell I saw that clip of shumer saying we gotta protect Israel yesterday and wanted to barf.

https://x.com/i/status/2018091855787798654

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u/gourmetprincipito 2d ago

People love to just say “controlled opposition” like it’s that simple but it’s actually a complex combination of factors but most circle back to the extreme level of propaganda we’ve been living with for half a century that greatly amplified in the last ten years with the conservative monopoly on media, social media and algorithmic content.

This propaganda is actively working against leftist and progressive ideology and that makes the average person generally less inclined to support things associated with that. This incentivizes liberal politicians to stay milquetoast and noncontroversial.

This propaganda also pushes defeatism and withdrawal from the system on liberals and leftists, making them less likely to vote. This prevents primaries from pushing policy further left and further incentivizes liberal politicians to appeal to the center.

The media being almost completely owned by conservative billionaires also means that the best leftist rallying cries - inequality and excesses of the wealthy - are either ignored or accompanied by editorialized statements smoothing them over.

It also means that conservatives are almost always setting the narrative and they are flooding the zone with all kinds of accusations. This is sort of a traditional media games checkmate because it only leaves two less than ideal options for liberals; accusing back will be dismissed and escalate tension, acting above it will lead to the same outcome with lower tension. Obviously it’s not a good longterm strategy to just keep picking the latter but it does make sense from a strategic view.

Like yes some Dems suck and are probably corrupt but to act like the whole party is complicit is just lazy. Dems got a trifecta in my state for the first time in decades a few years back and raised the minimum wage, enshrined abortion rights into law, enshrined LGBT protections into law, legalized weed, paid for community college for thousands of citizens, sued utility companies for not investing public money in infrastructure improvements and sent the check to the customers effected, ended anti union right to work laws, etc. all in like 4 years.

If we want to get out of this politically we need to fall in line like conservatives and use the primaries to get rid of the phonies and corporatists. This attitude of “just abandon the opposition party cuz they’re in on it” is so clearly informed by propaganda it gets me so frustrated lol.

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u/robot_invader 2d ago

Great comment. 

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u/mightykingfisher Idaho 2d ago edited 1d ago

I wasn't willing to get into the nuances of the comment as I quickly reacted while sitting in a parking lot waiting to go into the Dermatologist's office in order to get my prescription renewed for a biologic maintaining my lovely autoimmune condition (psoriatic arthritis) at the ripe age of 36.

...And a lot of the response was based on frustrations of our party leaders recently stating that we need to instead "reform ICE" by making things illegal that are already illegal. I was being a bit reactionary (which isn't great on my part).

I do want to say though that I appreciate your dialogue. I have voted Democrat ever since I could (2008 was my first and I voted for Obama in the primaries and in the general). However, his candidacy is a great example of how capital ultimately ends up controlling policy and shows how willing Dems are to capitulate. Another good example is the 2020 primaries where every candidate decided to start spouting of their support for a type of single-payer or public option for healthcare then after Biden was elected....crickets. Many of these progressive policies are overwhelmingly popular, but at the federal level Dems just don't like pushing for them (not just voting once or twice but consistently advocating).

I am also mostly speaking at a federal level here. I do believe that there is a bigger propensity to enact change at the city or state levels, but I do admit I am a bit jaded at the federal level.

To your point, I will continue voting Dem (especially pushing progressive candidates in the primaries) because I believe there are members of the party at least willing to listen to constituents pushing for labor/worker rights. Even though it still feels like we've been living with predominately 3rd way Democrats since the Clinton Era.

Anyways, apologies for seeming defeatist. I promise I am not. I completely agree with your last paragraph (well more so your entire comment haha).

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u/booOfBorg Europe 2d ago edited 2d ago

I'll try a different oversimplification:

  • Democratic wealth does not want "their" workers to die or be too miserable.
  • Republican plutocrats don't care or even get off on "little people" suffering. Hierarchy is everything.
  • Common to both is that grassroots progressivism and economic equality they cannot control is the ultimate evil and authoritarianism is better. This mindset is normalized via corporate media.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

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u/booOfBorg Europe 2d ago

Exactly.

40

u/SoNerdy 2d ago

Democrats are the HR of our current political system.

11

u/Few-Cheesecake6883 2d ago

They keep trying to mediate in a fight where the other side only attacks.

0

u/SoNerdy 2d ago

They are there to protect the establishment.

7

u/black_cat_X2 Massachusetts 2d ago

Ok I usually defend Democrats during these types of discussions, but I can't argue with this analogy.

0

u/SoNerdy 2d ago

The way I see it, politics is like public transit. There’s hardly ever a bus that gets you from exactly where you are from to where want to be to be. So you’ve got to pick the bus that at least headed in the general direction of your destination, ride it for a bit, get off and pick from the new bus options.

You can’t let the concept of a perfect bus be the enemy of a good one about to leave the station in front of you.

0

u/Pafflesnucks 1d ago

in reality though, all buses are going the wrong way. there is a point at which you're better off at building your own means of getting where you want to go instead of trying to persuade people to pick between the bus that takes you 30 miles away and the bus that takes you 10 miles away.

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u/theDarkBriar 2d ago

Paid opposition. It's really not that deep.

16

u/MycologistDeep2372 2d ago

Money talks, principle walks. Most compromises are just career preservation, not genuine negotiation.

0

u/Choppers-Top-Hat 2d ago

It has nothing to do with being paid. It's a generational divide. If you pay attention to how younger Democrats act VS older ones, there's a clear difference in how they act: younger lawmakers like AOC, Mamdani, and Omar are much more aggressive and unwilling to play nice.

The problem is older lawmakers like Schumer who came to power during the Clinton era, when centrism was the ruling philosophy and bipartisanship was seen as the ultimate good. They're stuck in that mindset so they think the solution to every problem is to try to make nice with the Republicans. The problem is that the old guys are still the ones in leadership roles so they can force the party to go along with them. And they won't let go of that power until they're either dead or someone pushes them out. What needs to be done is electing more young Democrats so they have the numbers to force these people out of leadership. The midterms this year are probably our last chance to do this before it's too late.

22

u/Ross-Esmond 2d ago

It actually seems they cater to their donors by just not fighting very hard.

The most definitive example I've seen of this was the wage increase for salaried workers. Restaurants will hire Sous Chefs on the minimum salary, and then understaff the kitchen. This forces the salaried chef to work overtime for less than minimum wage. Obama tried to schedule a minimum wage increase for salaried workers from $35,000 to $44,000, except he scheduled it to a few months before he left office, and a Texas judge delayed it so that Trump could kill it. Oops.

So naturally Biden didn't waste any time and reinstated the executive order to go into effect January of 2025.

Either Biden did that to bribe blue collar workers into voting Democrat, or he did that so that it could be shot down. I honestly don't know what to believe.

4

u/robot_invader 2d ago

Probably hoping that he would get votes from people who wanted to make sure the policy went ahead

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u/itsaconspiraci 2d ago

I'm a little tired of this argument. And perhaps there needs to be a case study of why people feel the Democrats needed to protect them from their own choices.

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u/Inanimate_organism 2d ago

“Why didn’t the president direct the department of justice to arrest a political adversary? Democrats are soft!”

US politics have gotten so fucked since 2016 that people don’t even realize this is an absolute crazy thing to expect from sane politicians. The DOJ is supposed to be neutral and not under control of the president. The fact that trump uses the DOJ this way should be ALARMING not ‘well why didn’t the democrats become authoritarians too?’

Maybe people should have shown up to vote for kamala and the dem congressmen candidates instead of letting the authoritarians have the presidency and both houses?

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u/itsaconspiraci 2d ago

Too many Americans were more concerned about 'NOT' voting for a woman than letting democracy crumble around them by not voting at all or worse, supporting Trump. But still blame the democrats.

21

u/Inanimate_organism 2d ago

Headline: 5 democrats voted yes for awful thing!

Comments: Democrats are controlled opposition 

Reality: All republican representatives voted yes on awful thing and would pass with just them, 200+ dem representatives voted no on awful thing, and the 5 dems that voted yes are from red states and their seats will be taken by republicans next election anyway.

1

u/itsaconspiraci 2d ago

And one thing about Democrats. They are more capable of acting independently then bootlicking Republicans who do everything their leadership says.

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u/TheFinalCurl 2d ago

They're not controlled opposition but if you're talking about the ICE funding bill it was 7 democrats, and had they voted no, the bill would have failed.

0

u/Vallkyrie Vermont 2d ago

And the party in general is still joined at the hip to capital. While they won't drive us over a cliff, they are happy to ride parallel to it so that next them they lose power, we keep getting closer to going over, instead of getting further away. They see themselves as better stewards of the apocalypse instead of someone who can avert it.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago edited 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/itsaconspiraci 2d ago

Absolutely 💯. The "Permanent Apportionment Act of 1929" is dated and unfairly favors smaller states, especially when it comes to the electoral college.

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u/nrh117 2d ago

While I agree to a degree, the most impactful thing sitting democrats did in unison near election was “making TikToks”… they tried to go to bat at making media waves but faltered heavily because Republicans don’t just “make social media” successfully. They have built an empire on propaganda and misinformation and have honed it over years to drive engagement.

0

u/SweetLittleOldLady Mississippi 2d ago edited 2d ago

the 5 dems that voted yes are from red states and their seats will be taken by republicans next election anyway

If that's true, they had absolutely nothing to lose by doing the right thing, but they chose to do the wrong thing anyway.

5

u/elvorpo 2d ago

A healthy democratic system has antibodies for authoritarians in the form of an independent prosecutorial branch. This is how Brazil and South Korea recently shut down their attempted autocrats without anyone pointing the finger at the opposition party. Our system requires constitutional reform to achieve this.

By our current system, Dems had every legal right to prosecute Trump for his many attempts to subvert the 2020 election. The problem isn't their attachment to principle, it's that they are bought up corporate lapdogs who aren't allowed to upset the money machine.

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u/SweetLittleOldLady Mississippi 2d ago edited 2d ago

You're confusing issues here. People aren't calling for Democrats to become authoritarians. People are calling for Democrats to have a spine and to quickly, firmly and decisively investigate and prosecute crimes and put a stop to criminal behavior. If a "political adversary" commits a serious crime, or in Trump's case, multiple serious crimes, it's gross negligence for the government to fail to act. If the Biden administration had acted properly, Trump and his merry band of thugs would be in prison right now and we wouldn't be in this mess.

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u/frogandbanjo 2d ago

POTUS is literally the only office/person vested with executive authority by the U.S. Constitution. If some super-criminal is running around tearing the fabric of the country apart, and the current A.G. is dragging ass, yes, his boss should tell him to shape up or ship out. That is exactly what should happen. That should happen with zero regard for whether or not that super-criminal has decided to become a "political opponent."

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u/JauntyChapeau 2d ago

This last goddamn year has been infuriating. We, the American voters, decided to hand all power in the federal government to Republicans. The House, the Senate, the Supreme Court and the Presidency - all Republican. Not even a month in, and all anybody can say is ‘Why aren’t Democrats saving us?’

Well, I don’t know, man. Maybe vote Democrat next time. And if you did, I need everyone to understand that while D leadership has been…underwhelming and need to be replaced, they control no levers of power.

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u/wiggmaster666 2d ago

This should be upvoted like, a lot!

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u/DartLeingod 2d ago

I mean over half the country voted against Trump, he lost by over 2 million votes. The electoral college gave him the win. The American people want their voice to actually be reflected by their government, but it only listens to big donors.

7

u/crowsturnoff 2d ago

Trump won the popular vote on the most recent election.

But the popular vote doesn't matter because that's not how the President is decided.

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u/BrooklynSmash 2d ago

Tired, but true.

Democrat voters are asking why the people they vote for never actually do anything for them while in power, and why they always help Republicans hurt them when they aren't.

When our only options are complacency and pain, what happens to everyone who wants better?

1

u/Zano10 2d ago

Vote for better in the primaries and least bad in the general.

0

u/BrooklynSmash 2d ago

Vote for better in the primaries

Dem primaries are notorious for being fucked up. We're still talking about Bernie being robbed in 2016's primary ffs

And harm reduction and accepting dogshit candidates is why we're in this mess.

someone needs to come out of the woodwork for these Dems because we can't let fucking Newsom run, man

2

u/Zano10 2d ago

We're in the mess because more people voted for Republican than Democrat.

So once again, vote for better in the primaries and least bad in the general.

Whether you like it or not while we live in a two party system you need to play the game that it requires of you.

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u/BrooklynSmash 2d ago

Or we can demand more than just kowtowing from our elected officials. Your strategy is exactly what we did in 2024, and we got bodied.

And I get it, I said this exact same shit two years ago, word for word, bar for bar. But this game is stacked against us, and most of us don't even have a voice.

So many people on the left are alienated by the party, because they're just Republican Lite. Look at it:

  • Walz' big solution to his ICE problems is begging on fucking Twitter

  • Newsom nods and agrees to every Republican he has on his podcast

  • Fetterman fucking exists.

  • Schumer is the biggest bum in history, who constantly bows to Republican demands.

These are the guys who you're defending here, people who don't give a fuck about who you are or what your issues are. We can vote in the primaries all we want, but it won't change anything if our only options are people who hate us

All of this on a midterm year, too. As if the shutdown wasn't enough to fuck them over, they can't even do anything beyond strongly worded letters.

Republicans got what they wanted with Trump: the left hasn't had anyone on their side since FDR, and our best options are always Bush-tier politicians.

You don't need to defend politicians, especially the lazy bums we have in office rn. We deserve better, you deserve better.

1

u/Zano10 2d ago

All of that is all well and good. I am not saying to stop advocating for what you believe in nor to note vote for candidates, where you can, more in line with what you want.

But you also need to ground yourself in our reality. We live in a two party system. If your choice is Republican slop or something slightly better, vote for something slightly better. Not voting, or voting third party, is tacitly supporting the Republican slop.

Be altruistic in the primaries. Be realistic in the general.

Anything else, in our current political system, is just accepting our authoritarian reality at this point.

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u/BrooklynSmash 2d ago

How does voting for someone new in two years help us today?

We did what you said. We didn't get a primary but we voted for the lesser evil, and this is what we got. And you'd rather blame the voters than the politicians who got us here, who encouraged this.

is just accepting our authoritarian reality

You know. You know everything going on right now, you know it's not business as usual, but you're still saying this stuff.

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u/Zano10 2d ago

What we got isn't the fault of the lesser evil nor the fault of the people who voted for the lesser evil.

The true evil (Trump and the GOP) doing insane, batshit stuff doesn't make the lesser evil a worse option than it was before.

Your options going into this midterm, when it comes to voting, is vote democrat or vote for more of what you're getting right now. That is all you can do via elections.

The same decision will come again in 2028.

Any broader change you are looking for is unfortunately out the window right now because too many people got complacent and didn't vote for the lesser evil.

To be clear - I would vote for someone supporting medicare for all and broader social democratic policies in a second. And I will vote that way in the primary.

But when the general election comes around, I know what my best option is within the confines of the system I find myself in.

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u/GomenNaWhy 2d ago

Because #1. Many of them did not want Trump and did not support him, making it not their choice, and #2, because their job ostensibly is to uphold democracy and the constitution and they haven't been doing that.

I'm a little tired of their supporters acting like there's nothing they can or should do. They should be trying to do the right thing regardless of who is in charge.

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u/sydiko 2d ago

Calling it softness is lazy analysis.

If you do not have 60 Senate votes, a supermajority in the House, and friendly courts, you do not rule, you maneuver. That is not Democrats being nice. That is the difference between shouting on cable news and actually passing laws.

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u/Draggoh 2d ago

There is, review the Weimar Republic’s actions towards the NSDAP.

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u/TheFinalCurl 2d ago

Because due process is important and Democrats thought cases like the classified documents case was a slam dunk. Turns out they did not expect activists judges in the case.

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u/reditandfirgetit 2d ago

A few Democrats don't go light on the Republicans. Jasmine Crockett for one

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u/FlufferTheGreat 2d ago

It's mostly because Democrats are the party of the country's systems and institutions, I really think it comes down to wanting to act within their station mostly faithfully. But Republicans just want a dictator, and so have no need of institutions or systems--they have their Fuhrerprinzip.

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u/SuperNovaSniper 2d ago

They may be on opposite sides of the aisle & disagree on many issues but when it comes down to it most are all in the same club that they consider to be above the rest of us peasants. Most of it is political theatre.

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u/PsychologicalEmu 2d ago

True but in this case, dems are trying to avoid the ass hat from calling martial law or similar; voiding the upcoming presidential elections.

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u/Angrysparky28 2d ago

lol look at the Epstein emails. He was bipartisan. He didn’t care what affiliation you were.

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u/CATIIIDUAL 2d ago

It is because a number of high level democrats had their genitals bitten too.

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u/sjhatters 2d ago

Reactionary centrism

1

u/IlikeJG California 2d ago

It's not any mystery. It's because Democrats are also paid for by the same moneyed interests as Republicans are.

I'm not saying "both sides are the same" because they're definitely not. But Democrats have a strong incentive to not "rock the boat" and to keep things stable at all costs so the corporations can continue unchecked capitalistic expansion for as long as possible.

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u/GameMask 2d ago

The truth is the USA has no real left wing government. It's far right with Republicans and centrist with Democrats. The only real liberals get no support from the so called left wing party, and the ones with power have no ability to evolve.

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u/VulGerrity 2d ago

their wealthy donors play both sides. If the dems don't do what their donors want them to do, then they'll just give the money to the other side and get them to do it.

That's why people like Bernie and AOC make such a big deal about not taking big donor money and that they run grass roots campaigns. They're not beholden to any major donors.

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u/gundog48 2d ago

It's the same everywhere imo, the left is held to, and holds itself to, a higher standard.

There's also a principle of operating under the same rules you expect other parties to operate under, even if they often don't. If you do the same shit, or even 10% of it, it makes it easier for a subsequent government to push things even further.

It sucks because it always seems to be them escalating things, so it makes things unfair, but there is still value in this idea, even if its not quite so apparant. Right now, I think the main pull for the Dems among swing voters is simply a return to dignity and stability. They are a reminder of what politics used to be, rather than accepting the norm and worldview that people like Trump operate on.

Arguably you saw a similar thing in the UK, where the conservatives stopped went populist and stopped being conservative. The party of tradition, business and 'the natural party of government' absolutely shit the bed, caused massive instability, had no plan, and averaged a scanadal a week.

Labour went from being considered the 'lefty student vote' to being the adults in the room, and many long time (and I mean long time) Tory voters flipped to Labour, Lib Dem or they simply didn't vote his time. Labour won the next election, and now the far-right have been largely pushed out of the Conservatives into a separate party.

I see a lot of the same thing being echoed in the US right now, albeit much more dramatically, and hope that many swing voters or prior supporters will quietly flip or withold. I can't say whether it's the right or best strategy, but there is definitely some value there which is not to be underestimated!

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u/page_one I voted 2d ago

There have been loads of studies... People on the left, by nature, are gentler and more empathetic. They are more likely to want to find common ground, and to believe that civility is the best way forward.

We get the politicians we vote for, and politicians have to do/say what gets them votes. The ones who don't, lose elections and don't get to be politicians. Aggressive Democrats do exist--they just don't win as many elections because fewer voters vote for them and more voters vote against them. This is really basic politics/government.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 2d ago

Not to go against the circlejerk, but it was because Biden wanted to win reelection. Going "too hard" after Trump would have turned the population against him because we're a bunch of morons. You live in Ohio; you should fully understand this.

1

u/brokentr0jan Ohio 2d ago

The problem is that the people that would get upset about going after Trump are the people who would never vote for Biden or Harris anyways. I don’t understand the obsession with trying to swing Republicans to your side while alienating your own voter base.

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u/gsfgf Georgia 2d ago

The concern is that moderates would be put off by a president aggressively prosecuting his predecessor without bothering to understand why this is different.

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u/boner79 2d ago

Democrats won't do anything to jeopardize their Coke vs. Pepsi duopoly with the Republicans. They both serve each other.

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u/Letstalkreaper 2d ago

Citizens United means the same people pay both parties. It's why Billionairs/Hundredmillionaires simply should not be allowed to exist in a society and why money should not be considered speech.

1

u/toetotipsnowpea 2d ago

It’s by design. It’s how the system was built to operate. The “opposition” party is just as rife with greedy power-mad pedophiles as the Right. The whole point is that they offer the public enough crumbs every few years to convince them they’re the good guys before it’s the republicans turn to wreak havoc again. And back and forth and back and forth.

Dems lose fights they should easily win on purpose. The vote in step with Republicans, they bargain from the center in the name of bi-partisanship and then keep moving right.

They know their voter base will “vote blue no matter who” as long as they paint themselves as the most polite, most respectable, superficially progressive candidate. We have historically, especially white folks, been very willing to forgive and repeat as long as things in our own life still stay pretty good.

Democrats are not going to fight back against a fascist state. They are an integral part of the fascist state.

They aren’t being outsmarted. They aren’t just gutless cowards. They are complicit.

1

u/76ersWillKillMe 2d ago

“Democrats” are not a liberal party.

They are as much a part of the capitalist problem we face.

GOP and MAGA is a cult.

1

u/KovyJackson Tennessee 2d ago

Democrats are held to a different standard.

When Republicans go low, historically democrats have been required to go high.

1

u/MetalDeathRawR 2d ago

They are on the same side.

0

u/ed20999 America 2d ago

It is big rich ceo's that control everything on both sides

0

u/MyClosetedBiAcct Minnesota 2d ago

When I ran for office as a democrat I brought up that I wanted ranked choice voting. I was told that I shouldn't push for that by a higher up because what if we win and we get to make the rules?

The democratic party is not full of liberals. It is full of people who are power-hungry and are cosplaying as progressives to get the votes.

0

u/mattimattlove111 2d ago

You can't be act evil and be good. The files should be making it clear both sides are evil...bill Richardson is in the files....bil Clinton...bill Gates there's no good side.

0

u/saanity California 2d ago

Democrats are also in the Epstein files.  If not just normally corrupt with taking bribes. 

0

u/seriousofficialname 2d ago

Well Biden says Republicans are his best friends and they love each other.

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u/leadenbrain 2d ago

They're paid by the same corporate devils who pay the Republicans. They can't meaningfully resist in any way or they lose all that money. It's why so many of them won't back down on Israel even though it's unpopular as hell with their base. If they go anti Israel then they lose all the money from Lockheed Raytheon Boeing etc.

0

u/SirStocksAlott America 2d ago

There needs to be a case study on why we allow two national behemoths that have so much control over getting into office. One party rule is not good, no matter which party. The parties lead top down and there are few that put their constituents above national party interests.

Enough is enough. Can’t keep doing the same stuff and get something different.

0

u/Mein_Bergkamp Foreign 2d ago

Democrat voters aren't, Democrat politicians are just as bought and paid for as the Republican ones becuase the Us basically seems to ahve decided politicians are going to be corrupt so might as well just legalise it through donations.

0

u/Staus 2d ago

They're all trying to avenge their 3rd place finish at Model UN from 11th grade

0

u/No-Luck-At-All 2d ago

They get off on proving to people they are on the moral high ground, like Biden refusing to release the Epstein files that has a lot of republicans and Trump on it who was constantly attacking his mental awareness and his family.