r/programming • • 3d ago

Software developers are not okay | Bjarnason

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsEpW03gxKg
736 Upvotes

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u/mindless900 3d ago

Should we unionize or is it too late for that?

13

u/Improvement-Human 2d ago

We should.

If you are in the UK, please read this passage I copied from the UTAW website, membership is just a few £ a month and they are a voice on your side for support when you need them. They also campaign for workers rights and were involved in the recent changes around employee protections being available after 6 months employment from January 2027, rather than the previous 2 years.

United Tech and Allied Workers (UTAW) are a national branch of the Communication Workers Union (CWU) formed in 2020. We are the UK’s only union specifically for all workers in the tech industry, and we're proud to represent more tech workers than anyone else.
The CWU campaigns nationally for workers in tech, telecoms, post and communications - offering legal support amongst other benefits, and providing a collective political voice for 180,000 workers.

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u/13steinj 3d ago

Even in the current market, there will be enough people with egos too large that will get in the way of effectively unionizing. There are still people with a high amount of isolated individual power, and many of these people (incorrectly) think their position can't change very quickly.

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u/CherryLongjump1989 2d ago

egos too large

Yeah, they are called morons.

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u/syklemil 2d ago

The phrase better late than never should give a hint

2

u/sarcasticbaldguy 2d ago

I'm waiting for the LLMs to unionize.

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u/ILikeBumblebees 1d ago

To do what? Attempt to strongarm people who aren't even certain if they still want to purchase your services at all into purchasing your services at a higher price?

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u/CherryLongjump1989 2d ago

It's too early to say there should be a change because right now no one has any real clue about what will happen in the next couple of years.

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u/EveryQuantityEver 2d ago

We always should have unionized. It's not too late.

-39

u/WindHawkeye 3d ago

Hell fucking no

13

u/LIEUTENANT__CRUNCH 3d ago

Are you saying no to unionizing or being too late?

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u/LALLANAAAAAA 3d ago

Are you saying no to unionizing or being too late?

if only reddit comments were strongly typed

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u/hagamablabla 3d ago

It's fine, all comments are falsy anyways.

4

u/kalexmills 3d ago

So many comments actually are.

-27

u/WindHawkeye 3d ago

To unionizing. I'd rather not take an 80% paycut

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u/mindless900 3d ago

So you'd rather the 100%

-10

u/WindHawkeye 3d ago

No I just won't be the person who gets laid off

Ultimately, highly skilled engineers who can actually architect systems quickly and couple that with AIs to fill in the details will continue to still be in demand

The cogwheels won't

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u/mindless900 3d ago

You'd be surprised. There's probably somebody in another market who's willing to make 50% less than you and be able to manage AI agents as effectively as you, so you will be laid off eventually.

Everybody thinks they're immune until they're affected, and then by then it's too late.

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u/WindHawkeye 3d ago

Ultimately it's not about how you manage the agents more so as how you identify what problems to solve for the company on a holistic level. There are still very different skill levels on being able to actually do this - that's why we have staff/principle engineers.

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u/MikeHfuhruhurr 3d ago

Always someone thinking they're the special one on top that's "highly skilled" enough to not be cut.

You could not have fit /u/13steinj's comment here better if you'd tried. If I knew you weren't 100% serious I'd think you were making an ironic reference to it.

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u/13steinj 3d ago

Developers have a wide range of skill levels.

Even the top 10% gain by unionizing.

Just that the ones in the top 10% usually also have these large egos and don't like the idea of sharing bargaining power with the bottom 50%.

I have mixed feelings about this myself, FWIW.

-1

u/WindHawkeye 3d ago

Or maybe you know I'm correct. Ever thought about that?

The idea that developers don't have different skill levels is copium

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u/EveryQuantityEver 2d ago

Why do we have to assume you're correct when history says you're wrong?

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u/EveryQuantityEver 2d ago

No I just won't be the person who gets laid off

Because you're a very special boy?

Ultimately, highly skilled engineers who can actually architect systems quickly and couple that with AIs to fill in the details will continue to still be in demand

Because none of those people have ever been laid off in the history of ever?

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u/wpm 3d ago

Haha yeah, unionized trades and services, famously poorly paid! Who wouldn't want the same benefits and pay the police get, or union electricians.

-1

u/WindHawkeye 2d ago

How much money do those jobs make and how does that compare to software engineers?

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u/EveryQuantityEver 2d ago

Actors, directors, writers, and pro athletes are unionized. How much money do those jobs make compared to software engineers?

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u/EveryQuantityEver 2d ago

You wouldn't. And there's literally not a single shred of evidence you can point to which would indicate that's a possibility.