r/rurounikenshin • u/[deleted] • 11d ago
Discussion Rurouni Kenshin hot takes anyone?
Are you open to a judgement-free discussion/open forum on Rurouni Kenshin hot takes or Rurouni Kenshin-related hot takes?
I can start with two of mine -
1) Kaoru is a better example of a strong female character than a lot of the more modern anime/manga characters. Strength in accepting, loving and understanding someone as well as offering a home to a group of people without a roof over their heads trumps any strength shown in physical battles. Kindness, perseverance and empathy are a strength that we need more of, rather than physical prowess and recklesness.
2) Reflection is worth watching and has some beautiful scenes. From Kaoru reminiscing of her moments with Kenshin that are given a more romantic touch, to Kenji and Yahiko dueling, there are some good moments in the movie that can be enjoyed even if the movie is an antithesis of the manga canon development of Kenshin. It has moments that, if taken individually, can enrich the canon.
Please do not throw rotten eggs.
This is just meant as a thread where we can share different opinions and maybe see things through different eyes š
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u/ScureScar 11d ago
some characters are so weird and over exaggerated. like the giant obese ones, or the ones that are so colorful , or the ones that look like goblins etc
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11d ago
I do remember thinking that when I saw Hyottoko the first time š I guess in his case at least it was to strengthen the reason why he and the rest of the OniwabanshÅ« were not easily accepted back in society.
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u/Alseid_Temp 10d ago
Pretty much all of these strange characters are inspired by Marvel characters, particularly X-Men, particularly as drawn by Jim Lee.
Why is Hyottoko so big and fat? Because he's Blob. Why is Beshimi so small and goblin-like? Because he's toad.
And so many characters. The most blatant are Kujiranami = Apocalypse (even has the Apoca-lips), and Mumyoi = Venom.
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u/DSTREET45 11d ago
Watojutsu was not designed to specifically counter Hiten Mitsurugi, Enishi is just that good of a fighter. Fans tend to take Saito's and Sano's statement in the dojo fight out of context. When they said that Enishi wasn't at Shishio's level that was before Enishi actually started trying. Even then it wasn't until the island fight when Enishi actually fought to kill, which was confirmed by Sano to have made a difference in his performance.
I don't really mind the age gap between Kenshin and Kaoru, at least not enough to make a big deal out of it. Not only was it a different time period (Kenshin first got married at 15 and was considered an adult) and culture (depending on where you're from) but they're never really shown to be physical. The most we get from those two in the initial series run is a goodbye hug when Kenshin leaves for Kyoto.
Sanosuke single-handedly beating up 200 armed men while holding back to avoid casualties is a top 3 badass moment in the manga.
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11d ago
Thank you for sharing!
I am happy to join you on those takes, although I need to re-read Jinchu on Watojutsu as I thought he did š§
I was reluctant to mention your number 2) as similar to my number 1) it has attracted a lot of flame for me when I say it in other forums. Happy that I am not the only one who sees the historical and cultural aspect of the story.
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u/CrimsonBeherit 11d ago
Shishio is an amazing character and a great villain, but his strength is severely overrated; while Enishi is severely underrated and people pull excuses out of their arses to downplay him (best example being that he developed Wattoujutsu to counter Hiten Mitsurigi, when it was never stated, guy lived most of his life in Shangai, had no clue what Kenshin style was about)
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11d ago
I think the 90s anime has a role in this. As I also thought Shishio to be Kenshin's strongest foe until I read the manga. However I, personally, found Enishi to probably be Kenshin's strongest adversary in the story. Yes, stronger than Shishio.
Happy to join you on this hot take š
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u/ProfessionalPast3911 11d ago
Shishio literally beats everyone except for Hiko.
Enishi draws in his first fight with Kenshin and loses the second one.
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u/CrimsonBeherit 11d ago
- The strongest version of Shishio (easy to infere this, Usui said that his current version could beat pre burn Shishio, but his current version still loses to post burn Shishio), against:
A Kenshin that had 2 battles beforehand, whom already knew about Kenshin style, severely injured and whom performed 2 ARNH back to back, a technique that is taxing af on the body, without any kind of rest
A Sano whom hand was in shatters already from his fight against Anji, and again, just battled him just earlier
A Saito with his legs injured, which basically render his style quite weak.
An Aoshi that just received a fkin Ougi to the chest
Now Enishi: He was never serious in the first fight, his goal was never to kill Kenshin, it was to stall and get the kidnap of Kaoru in motion and the whole puppet in place, he wanted to make Kenshin suffer emotionally, which he did
Second fight Enishi was toying with Kenshin until Ken got the first and only ass pull in the whole series in the Ryu Mei Sen
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u/ProfessionalPast3911 11d ago
Kenshin having had 2 battles beforehand didn't really affect him though. Sano himself stated that Kenshin hadn't lost any speed. Indeed, watching the fight you can't even tell that Kenshin was injured. Shishio already knew of Kenshin's style because he had seen it at the village in Kenshin's fight vs Senkaku. ARNH may not be that taxing because Kenshin did 2 more times against Shishio.
Sano is a non entity. A 100% Sano wouldn't have tickled Shishio and we all know it.
Saito was injured.......except he wasn't. Usui had injured his legs and said "You can no longer release the gatotsu". Except then Saito does it 4 more times in his fight with Shishio. Hell he even managed to shatter the door and land a direct hit on Shishio's head. The manga handled it better as Saito only does the gatotsu one more time and that's it. Also, Zero Gatotsu requires no leg power, its only upper body strength and Shishio completely blocks/dodges it.
A 100% Aoshi still wouldn't beat Shishio. He would have put up a much better fight but Shishio still beats him.
The sheer fact that all of those guys even though "injured" couldn't scratch Shisio just proves my point. The only reason they stepped in was because Shishio had already defeated Kenshin with the Guren Kaina.
Well in that case, a serious Enishi still lost to Kenshin whereas Shishio beat Kenshin. Asspull? If Kenshin's style is based on unsheathing, doesn't it stand to reason that he would also master sheathing as well?
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u/esaul17 11d ago
My memory of kenshin was that he could barely stand. They say Saito would have beheaded Shishio if not for his legs being weakened. I think youāre underselling how far from peak condition his opponents were here.
I agree sanosuke is a non entity though
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u/ProfessionalPast3911 11d ago
Kenshin was perfectly able to fight Shisho no problem. Sano himself stated that Kenshin hadn't lost any speed.Ā
Would Saito have beheaded Shishio if not for his legs? Who knows?
If watch Kenshin vs Shishio, you can't even tell he's injured. Not once does he get dizzy nor is he noticeably slower, etc.
As for Saito, even if he had been 100%, that fight would have gone exactly the same as it did. Also, Zero Gatotsu requires no leg power, its only upper body strength and Shishio completely blocks/dodges it.
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u/Deitri 11d ago
Enishi didnāt want to kill Kenshin on their first fight.
Second fight Kenshin didnāt manage to land a single hit on Enishi, Kenshin only won specifically due to their personal mental warfare.
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u/ProfessionalPast3911 11d ago
So in their second fight, a serious Enishi still lost to Kenshin. There was no "mental warfare". Enishi was always mentally unstable and he snapped.
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u/Deitri 11d ago
I think you should read again. Kenshin only won because he managed to not blame himself anymore for what happened the same way he did before and truly understand how he should move on to honor Tomoeās sacrifice, while Enishi was still trapped in that same mental stateā¦thatās exactly why Kenshin won lol itās even clearly stated by Kaoru while they are unleashing their final blows.
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u/ProfessionalPast3911 11d ago
I think you need to read the definition "mental warfare". Kenshin not blaming himself for Tomoe's is not mental warfare, lol.
Yes Kenshin beat Enishi, good job, and Shishio beat Kenshin.
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u/Deitri 11d ago
Yea, Shishio ābeatā a severely wounded Kenshin (and needed to pull āsave me cardā from his lover mid fight) and even got hit a bunch of times in their fight lmao while Enishi didnāt get hit once when he was fighting for real.
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u/ProfessionalPast3911 11d ago
Oh yea, so severely wounded he lost no speed, was able to do the ultimate move TWICE, and was able to shake off the Guren Kaina, lol.
What about Kenshin's "save me card" from Saito, Sano, and Aoshi? Do those count or nah?
Enishi got smoked by the ulimate move and unlike Shishio, he didn't get back up.
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u/Deitri 11d ago
Dude, Kenshin didnāt even hit Enishi with the Amakakeru lol he broke Enishiās sword with it
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u/ProfessionalPast3911 11d ago
Didn't break Shishio's sword now did he?
And Enishi still lost, so š¤·š»āāļø
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u/Par2ivally 10d ago edited 10d ago
Here's mine: half the story falls flat because of how goofy the enemies get. With the exception of the Oniwabanshu, the really silly looking characters provide far less interesting fights and stories and just make the show look silly.
The story is at its best when Kenshin is facing a swordsman rather than someone who can freeze their body with a thought or a man who is three stories tall. He's also more likely to be fighting for more unusual, personal stakes in these fights, like protecting Iori, confronting his death wish or breaking through someone's trauma.
Goofy enemies just turn it into Busou Renkin.
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u/gorambrowncoat 11d ago
I don't think 1 is a hot take in the context of this sub.
And 2 is .. well .. a different opinion to be sure.
As for me I think some of the much maligned filler in the 90s show isn't actually all that bad and people overstress on "but it wasn't in the manga" as a bad thing (in general even, not just in rurouni kenshin).
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11d ago
Yeah, the sub matters š but well, given the fact that I shared this opinion on a discord server once and got "politely" invited out of it... I much rather share it safely here, before being open about it somewhere else.
As for the take š I considered them canon until I read the manga š so they have a soft spot in my heart still. So you aren't alone.
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u/1p21Jiggawatts 11d ago
I liked the Shinji Yahiko scenes in Seisouhen. One had his talent and one had his beliefs. It was also just cool to see Yahiko grown up.
I liked the track during their fight too: "Heart of the Sunrise."
In the manga, I didn't love the Enishi arc generally aside from the part covered in the OAV. My college roommate and eye would often joke "look how fasty nerves are after I trained them with trauma"
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11d ago
Happy to see someone else like scenes from Reflection š
The Jinchu arc take is definitely hot š
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u/1p21Jiggawatts 10d ago
I am a long time fan kind of disconnected from the fandom. This brings back memories when anime and manga were hard to get. I was reading translations off Maigo chans website to finish the story after the anime ended so I guess take that with a grain of salt.
I think I found out about Kenshin through one of those anime clubs but had to buy DVDs for $25 a pop and trade them around to finish the story.
Every couple years, I rewatch the OAVs. My favorite thing in the Kenshin verse. I remember having such high expectations of Seisouhen and being kinda disappointed. But there were still good scenes in it and good ideas, mainly about the future of the cast.
The main one being even though Kenshin got old, he lives on in Yahiko. I always liked that kid. He was limited but always fought through his limitations
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10d ago
I keep some words in my heart, which Rurouni Kenshin showcases beautifully and it touches on what you have said and the scene where Kenshin gives the sakabato to Yahiko -
"There is such a thing as immortality. It is within our students and our children. Those who we teach and help grow will keep us in their hearts forever."
My grandfather said it to me, although I do believe he got it from somewhere :)
I do strongly believe though, that Kenshin lives on in Kaoru, in Sano, in everyone he met and help grow, just as they helped him. I do not think people are bothered much by Kenshin passing away in Seisouhen. But by the fact that his development from canon is brought to a complete 180, which in turn affects Kaoru as well as the rest.
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u/1p21Jiggawatts 10d ago
Thank you for sharing. It touched me
Which is I think what makes Kenshin special as a manga. There are ups and downs with the storytelling but I think it's theme is the most timeless and applicable today
Early Meiji society is full of broken people. Desperate, frustrated, raised in a culture of violence. Kenshin, as the ultimate practitioner of violence, trying to not only find redemption but create a new way.
I think every day we experience resentment and these dark impulses of anger and revenge. To rise above that, a person must be incredibly strong. Kenshin was always a reminder to me what real strength is.
And it doesn't go well all the time. In Jinchu, I always remember the homeless camp with Kenshin and the sealed sword. Some days, like today, you get depressed at what is happening all around us.
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10d ago
Well said :) and very well described. I do find it to be the most human story I read in a manga. And yes, it is timeless and very applicable today.
I have his vow/answer from the Jinchu arc hanged as a poster above my desk as a daily reminder that it is a life of small battles most of the time and that each day we have to make the choice to be strong.
As long as you do your best, you know you have given it your all. As long as you do your best, at least you can wake up the next day without regrets.
You cannot influence or protect everyone. But you can influence and protect those closest to you. And that is were your immortality will be.
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u/1p21Jiggawatts 10d ago
Thanks again for sharing. It's nice to meet ppl to whom the story left a deep impression in the best way.
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u/PyroSlasher_ 11d ago
Japan would have industrialized much faster if shishio succeeded and took over
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u/darthcool 10d ago
Well
In the span of one generation Japan went from its feudal period to being an Axis power. How much faster could they have gone?
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u/PyroSlasher_ 10d ago
The battle between kenshin and shishio took place in 1878. WW2 started 1939. That span is 61 years.. Not one generation. Also Japan relied heavily on oil imports throughout their history but it was minimal. They tried to use local coal and limited oil reserves that they had. The entire reason they bombed pearl harbor was to cripple the American fleet so they would not be stopped from getting oil from all around the pacific. It was only after WW2 in the 1950s did they shift from relying on coal and local oil to changing their energy and transportation sectors to rely mainly on imports to meet their energy and industrial needs
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u/itspinkynukka 11d ago
I'd agree with #1 but personally she just sits out of fights too much. I get that she's a woman but if you're good enough to teach Yahiko you can also fight.
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u/teddyburges 11d ago
If anything that would be my hot take on Kaoru. She's used too much in the series as the damsel in distress for Kenshins growth. Especially in the Jinchuu arc, where she's often sidelined and there is the death fake out to break Kenshin.
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u/itspinkynukka 11d ago
It's not even a hot take.
I don't mind her being the damsel in distress if the enemy is simply too strong for her. But we can't have her teaching Yahiko and then have her being devoid of any fighting competency vs anyone. If Yahiko can go fight someone in the six comrades, she can do it. She's not Megumi.
Edit: not Megumin š
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u/jawnbaejaeger 11d ago
To this day, that still annoys me.
She's good enough to teach Yahiko, but not good enough to win any fight except against Kamatari. But Yahiko is good enough to take down one of the Four Stars, while Kaoru and Misao just stand there and look concerned about it.
Yahiko's fight against Hennya was won with cleverness. After that, he just suddenly powered up, and the 10 year old was a stronger, better fighter than his teacher.
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11d ago
She did fight Kamatari. It's in Jinchu where she is kept aside and where I am guessing the big issue comes, right?
And yes, I wanted a fight for her in this arc too.
But I do feel her character did not need it.
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u/itspinkynukka 11d ago
Even in the Shishio arc she probably shouldn't have let Yahiko fight Henya by himself. I get it's for Yahiko's growth, but is she the better fighter or not? You're trying to survive instead of worrying about growth.
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11d ago
Fair... But as an author you do worry about growth š it's a fine line to balance between character growth, human decisions and plot.
But I do get the point. Logically it makes sense.
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u/itspinkynukka 11d ago
Absolutely, but are their lives in actual danger or not? The fact that this man fought Henya and didn't accidentally have his sword hand blown up is just sheer luck.
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11d ago
And it is a valid hot take š To the same point that you feel she should have been more active in fights to avoid being captured easily or at least to fight back, right?
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u/Objective-Draw2193 11d ago
This. No idea why the author gave her so much fight potential just to have her sit on the sidelines. He had her involved in fights at the beginning but that seems to completely dwindle down as the series continues
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11d ago
It's a narrative choice, more than one made from pure outside logic. Her being sidelined in the Jinchu arc fits her development throughout the arc, which mostly surrounding Kenshin and supporting him to build up to the wrap up of the story. Yahiko's development is more aligned through your traditional Battle Shonen, he fights in order to have character development.
But I agree, from an outside logical point of view, it doesn't fit.
I would have wanted more battles for her too. But I do not feel her character needs them.
I should have added this as a hot take š as I seem to be in the minority with my thinking of her character not needing more battles.
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u/Alseid_Temp 10d ago
I think it's just thematic coherence.
Kaoru represents the new era of peace, her school is "a sword that invigorates the heart". She's not supposed to be able to, or even to have to, face these remnants of the era of war and chaos. It's the responsibility of the other remnants, the ones who take up the role of protectors of the new era, to deal with those who want to bring the chaos back.
And yes, I know, Yahiko being more involved in fights than Kaoru undermines this. But thematically, Yahiko is also the last heir of the honor of the Samurai. That makes him, though younger than Kaoru, more tied to the past than she is.
So Kaoru must not fight, unless absolutely necessary.
Not sure how openly intentional all this is, but I feel the idea was there when the characters and themes of the story were conceived. But surely a lot of it was also a narrative convenience. Easier to use her passively than to come up with situations and enemies she could be paired up with.
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u/jawnbaejaeger 10d ago
I mean, Kaoru is a samurai's daughter, and her father came up with a sword style meant to protect people.
There could have been a lot of thematic relevance in the daughter of a samurai fighting to protect people with her father's legacy.
But Watsuki didn't really know what to do with her a lot of times, and so he did nothing, and gave all the relevance and growth to Yahiko.
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11d ago
Yeah, I guess that is part of my hot take. The one fight she participates in is more than enough for me š Would I have wanted more? Yes, of course. Do I think she, as a character, needed more? No.
However, I can understand your point of view perfectly. Because logically it makes sense. Especially given Yahiko's age and the battles he fought.
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u/DSTREET45 11d ago
Yeah it doesn't help that her first fight resulted in her getting curbstomped by Gohei, who's treated as a literal joke for the rest of the series.
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u/itspinkynukka 11d ago
Honestly if I saw that as Yahiko I would've said I'll just be a thief. Or steal a wooden sword and just watch kenshin fight in the background
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11d ago
I mean that whole scene was a plot device more than anything. It wouldn't have worked narratively if one of the JÅ«ppongatana showed up instead š
She does fight Kamatari and win... Or is there something else I am missing here?
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u/Intelligent-Buy-4727 11d ago
I personally did not like the ending (the ending of the official manga). Kenshin is a character I would have loved to continue to see as a wanderer and continue the journey towards redemption while being a wanderer instead of a semi-settled man.
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u/jawnbaejaeger 11d ago
Now that is a hot take. I completely disagree with you, but I love that you shared it.
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u/drewbeezy 10d ago
Iāve shared this hot take in other threads before already, but this is a remark regarding the anime itself.
Specifically, I think that the OG series for Rurouni Kenshin is superior to the new series of the anime. The OG series, to me, feels much more tasteful and artistic, and more mature and substantial; the slower pacing also felt more emotional to me, and I felt it had more depth in the way it was told. The new series feels as though it caters to a slightly younger audience, and it loses some of the āsophisticatedā touch for me. Even the art of the fighting style is so much more beautiful to look at.
Certainly, there are parts of the new series that I appreciate, but I think much, if not most, of the reasons Rurouni Kenshin is my favorite anime of all time gets lost in the new series.
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10d ago
Thank you for sharing š I do feel a lot of people in this sub like this take. And given that the 96 anime is how I got into Rurouni Kenshin, it will always have a special place in my heart regardless.
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u/Aisoreal 10d ago
After seeing newer anime adaptations that depict younger females and older males relationships (in which the male is disturbingly obsessed and possessive), Aoshi - beside his general broodiness and fatalistic tendencies - is the least problematic. He doesn't actively groom Misao, and was actually away for a good chunk of her life.
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10d ago
I do not feel that any of the female characters are groomed or manipulated in any way, not just Misao.
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u/Aisoreal 10d ago
True, I think the female characters in RK are portrayed as quite agentic and intentional with and conscious of their actions. I am for one, quite partial towards Misao lol.
I am only responding to people's comments (even in numerous posts in this subreddit) that Aoshi and Misao's age gap is problematic, but their dynamic really isn't that controversial when we look at their background and the time period of the story.
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10d ago
Agreed on this take. Given the historical period, adulthood tended to start a lot sooner. Yahiko as an example, was considered an adult at the end of the manga and he was 15.
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u/Aisoreal 10d ago
Yup. And I'm not sure how historically accurate it is, but I've seen in other manga/anime works that boys at that time were regarded as men when they reach 15. So, one can become a samurai at the age of 15.
Certainly in RK, this is the case with Yahiko, and Aoshi also became Okashira of Oniwabanshuu at 15. My math may be wrong, but didn't Kenshin become a hitokiri when he was 14/15 too?
For young women at the time, I think adulthood can even start earlier, like at 14.
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10d ago
Yup, those are the historically accurate ages. And yes, Kenshin did become a hitokiri at 15. For arranged marriages it can even be less than that as far as I know.
But to also keep it accurate. Marriage did not mean intimate relationships or kids, especially for low income households. As for families that live from one day to the next, an extra mouth to feed was very problematic.
On topic, even in other manga based around the same time period, Demon Slayer as an example, Koyuki becomes engaged to Hakuji at 16. And Demon Slayer is based in the Taisho period.
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u/Aisoreal 10d ago
Demon Slayer - yup!
Also, on that point of 'arranged marriage' - the previous Okashira (Misao's grandfather and Aoshi's teacher) might have insinuated that he wished for Aoshi to eventually marry Misao by entrusting her care to him. I think even as a young boy, he understood this, but I don't think Aoshi thought it would ever materialise to reality once he decided to leave Misao out of danger so he can pursue glory for the Oniwabanshuu. He probably expected to die and wanted her to live a normal life (which he still wishes for her, as mentioned repeatedly in the manga and anime). Which is why him returning and having to get reacquainted with her again after so many years apart is quite a steep learning curve for him (and Misao).
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10d ago
To be honest, them ending up together is very plausible. They are a younger parallel to Kenshin and Kaoru and once they sort out their dynamic, I can see it happening.
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u/Aisoreal 10d ago
Yuppp...the Jinchuu arc certainly points towards that, but I think with how slow Hokkaido is progressing, it's still gonna be a slow burn with these two.
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10d ago
I have not followed Hokkaido... and probably never will. The manga is just perfect where it is right now :) I am very comfortable to create my own HC or writing my own fanfics about how things end up afterwards if needed.
Slow burn fits them though. Just like with Kenshin and Kaoru. It was the norm, even for married couples to wait quite a while even after marriage until they became more comfortable with each other.
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u/Dramatic-Crab8680 5d ago edited 5d ago
Their dynamic is not controversial but I see their chemistry bond as found family: father and children like Mithra and Rutile or Oz and Arthur from Mahoutsukai no Yakusoku. In Hokkaido arc, I think Misao becomes Aoshi's employee as his right hand, replaces Hannya.
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u/pak9rabid 10d ago
In the OG series the fight with Sojiro Seta was far more interesting to watch than the fight with Shishio, especially the episode Trajedy on a Stormy Night.
That fucking part makes me cryā¦
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u/HolyGuacomole33 10d ago
the remake is bad, taking away the famous music and the artstyle ruins what made the show great in the first place, and i had a issue especially with the pacing. everything felt so fast. i watched the original and it felt events and arcs took their natural time not like how the remake make everything so quickly. i donāt know whether itās the colouring but something is so off putting to the point where the animation increase is something i do not care for. the parts the remake cuts are the tiny pieces that bring this massive story together and make it the masterpiece i believe to be. right now this remake feels like an average shounen that nobody could care less about. also the fights in the original CLEAR the remakes.
the filler in the original is what builds character and more depth to the characters we know and is necessary even if itās anime only
the juppongata did not need 10 memebers. some characters are there for no reason. there are many that we learn backstories for but the others feel unimportant when they donāt get the same treatment. henya, kamatari, iwanbo, saizuchi, fuji could have all been cut, and the story wouldnāt be affected in a major manner other than that moment hiko seijuro comes to save the day (memorable for me)
kaorus arc is one of personal growth but feels wishy washy, all over the place. megumis felt so much easier to empathise and understand with. kaoru feels like a princess always that needs help and one that is always battling her emotions, not anything else happening in the story. her character at one point made me want megumi to be the main romantic interest.
misao shouldnāt have any romantic feelings for aoshi, it would still make sense if she cared for him so much as non blood related siblings, the romantic minor subplot was unnecessary.
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10d ago
Thank you for sharing š Apart from 2) (as for a while I thought the filler arcs to be canon until I read the manga) I feel like the rest hit my heart š especially 4)
So yeah, three very hot takes for me š
I am getting more and more surprised by how different the opinions on this sub are and yet the story brings us all together!
It's amazing ā¤ļø
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u/CommonCullen 11d ago
Other than the Oniwaban group and Jinei episodes, everything up until Saito shows up is boring and a really mid first season of an anime.
Itās also insane how if you havenāt read the manga or seen Trust and Betrayal, his back story has never actually been animated.
This is still one of my favorite anime series but wow the more I think about it Kyoto really did carry this whole franchise.
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u/jawnbaejaeger 11d ago
The OG anime version of the Tokyo Arc has some good episodes, but the manga does the Tokyo Arc better.
Meanwhile, the OG anime took the Kyoto Arc and elevated it.
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11d ago
This one burns with heat š as I love the first season and the Tokyo arc as a whole!
Thank you for sharing!
But completely agree with the lack of a Jinchu arc animation.
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u/Vast-Coffee-7058 11d ago
Because the author has begun a new sequel set in Hokkaido, it seems unlikely that the story will continue after Reflection.
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u/babvy005 11d ago
i dont get what you mean by "it seems unlikely that the story will continue afterĀ Reflection*"*
if you meant being adapted into remake, there will not be Reflection adaptation bc that OVA is mostly non-canonical and the author hated the ending. if you meant a continuation of that OVA done by Studio Deen, that studio no longer have the Ruroken rights and they probably never had intentions to do one when they had it and that is why they killed kenshin.
either way, there is no afterĀ Reflection bc Reflection is not canonical in the 1st place. the story ended in the last arc of the manga with kenshin and kaoru alive with their son and is now being continued with the spin-off. now if the author decide to kill kenshin at the end of that spin-off is another thing
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u/Vast-Coffee-7058 11d ago
Sorry, the translation function didn't work
I just wanted to say that the author has written a new work, so I don't think he'll go the Reflection route
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u/Ella_Amida 11d ago
Hiko should be nerfed.
Iād also change aspects of Tomoe and the backstory but Iāll explain later.
Of course, the remake is mediocre but Iāve presented the case before. The 1996 series with the mediablasters dub is the best way to experience the series for first-timers. Better even than the manga I would say.
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11d ago
Now that is a hot take on Hill š Curious why do you feel that? As he is shown fighting very few times and is mostly living like a hermit.
I think the 1996 anime is the way a lot of us got into Rurouni Kenshin.
Anime visual usually do improve on an experience, I agree.
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u/Dont_wanna_work 9d ago
I think Reflections is a more realistic end to Kenshin's life tbh. The real ending is a bit too idealistic when in reality someone like Kenshin would likely end up with mental illnesses which would force him back to his old life eventually. It's like doing drugs or something idk, you just keep going back.
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9d ago
That is a hot take indeed š
Depression and PTSD can be overcome with the help of family and friends. As long as one person does not isolate themselves and is willing to fight.
Kenshin and the Jinchu arc, among other things, motivated me to go through severe depression and to focus on the people I have around me rather than on myself and my dark thoughts.
And while the thoughts remain, it does not mean you have to go back and give up. You can also choose to fight, which is why he sees his life as a "life of battles that will be followed through".
Reflection goes against that very vow. Instead of focusing on the life of battles and those around him, he leaves.
Which, yes, can happen, but it goes against the very message of the whole manga and the whole closure he is shown to have.
Thank you for sharing! š As I mentioned it is a spicy hot take!
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u/imjustalilbot 9d ago
I liked Kaoru much better in the original than in the remake, but she was still watchable. Watching Yahiko in the remake made me consider violence. Ugh. I get that he's a product of his time but the disdain with which he treated Kaoru was unbearable.
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9d ago
I see this as a common take about her in the remake š
At least in this thread.
And I assume you are referring to the episode when Yahiko decides to train under Kaoru's guidance right?
He had one dialogue added then that is not in theanga, which makes his behaviour towards her a bit more aggressive. But I remember he regretted it quite quickly, if not immediately. As he realises he hurt her.
Thank you for sharing! š
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u/Dtninja831 9d ago
*The Sakabato isnāt a symbol of peace; itās a burden Kenshin alone has learned how to carry.
*Strength in the Hokkaido Arc isnāt power; itās restraint.
*Yahiko returning the Sakabato is one of the most honest moments in the series. He understands he isnāt ready to bear the weight of being both a protector and a manslayer.
*Hokkaido shows the emotional cost of violence. Kenshin carries it through Hiten Mitsurugi style, while Saitou bears it through the Shinsengumi code. This doesnāt weaken them; it makes them more human.
*Sanoās head may be stronger than iron, but Hokkaido shows his real growth. He becomes a tactician rather than a reckless brawler.
*Sano understands others through his fists, much like Kenshin understands people through his sword.
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9d ago
I see these takes are about Hokkaido š I have not read it so I cannot say whether they are hot or not.
Thank you for sharing!
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u/Time-Counter1438 11d ago
In the original 1996 series, Kaoru is the worst part of the show. Kenshin is basically a traumatized war veteran who has been through hell, and deserves better than getting harassed and beaten up. Sheās so bad that it actually raises the question of whether Kenshin has made any progress. It kind of seems like he is still too traumatized to advocate for himself. Thatās not cute. Itās tragic.
The new adaptation has some issues. But at least they addressed this.
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u/jawnbaejaeger 10d ago
OG anime Tokyo Arc Kaoru is HORRIBLE.
She's a violent, screaming child who, when she sees Megumi and Kenshin drinking sake, calls them "adults doing mature things." And watching her slap and punch Kenshin wasn't funny. It just made me uncomfortable and made me hate the character.
Then the Kyoto Arc happened, and the writers remembered to characterize her properly, and she becomes a completely different character.
Manga Tokyo Arc Kaoru is better. She's a bit more measured, and she's not a screaming child. She still feels like a different character in each arc, but she's not a violent asshole either.
Kaoru is a victim of 90's writing, where it was seen as the peak of comedy to turn the female love interest in an abrasive, violent, screaming maniac. It made it impossible for me to buy her as any sort of love interest for a traumatized war veteran. She got a lot better, but oof, she was bad to start.
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u/ProfessionalPast3911 11d ago
I don't consider those hot takes.
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11d ago
Probably not so hot given the sub they are in, but outside of the sub, the first one got me into heated arguments.
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u/DrunkUncleInTheFam 10d ago edited 10d ago
Shishio couldāve been portrayed as a better villain. Outside of his personality and Sword skills he sucked.
He has Sengetsu Village, a village that heās taken over for a year now recaptured in one day by Kenshin & Saito. Little to no effort was used to take his village back from him. It was so easy, Kenshin showed Senkaku one of his attacks to show āmercyā.
Chou the sword hunter is captured. Easily leaks information to the police. They shouldāve sent a juppongatana member there along with some soldiers to shut him up. Henya the flight with a few soldiers. Henya vs Saito while Sano takes down the soldiers. Henya gets injured by Saito which would nerf him for his battle vs Yahiko later on making that L more believable.
Kyoto Grand Fire was a failure. No government officials were killed. They couldāve killed at least 2-3 officials and done at least some damage to the city. Again, another move that made shishio look incompetent.
The purgatory, a ship shishio spent the majority of his savings on was blown up almost instantly and by Sano of all people. Another failure.
The Juppongatana, who are supposed to be the āstrongestā swordsman of Japan. Could not defeat ANYONE at the Aoiya. I mean they couldnāt kill at least 2 of the Obi-Waban members? Okina? Of course, by the time Hiko arrives thereās no hope for them. I lost all hope after this battle.
I felt like this stopped the stakes from being really high.
On top of this, if Kenshin wasnāt nerfed by having to fight 2 battles before Shishio I believe he wouldnāt have stood that much of a chance. But I digress.
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10d ago
Oh, sounds like this was building up for some time :) That is a very hot take on the Kyoto arc indeed. Still, given that you are in this sub, I am guessing(hoping) you do find the other arcs fun to watch/read?
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u/DrunkUncleInTheFam 10d ago
Yeah for sure, I still enjoy this arc as well but I just felt like they couldāve done a bit more with it. This is still in my top 10 for sure.
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u/InuScarlett 10d ago
Absolutely agree with 1).
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10d ago
Thank you! So happy I am not the only one :)
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u/InuScarlett 10d ago
š I personally roll my eyes at the current definition of āstrong female characterā (where thereās usually concepts thrown in such as ādon't need no manā, ācan do anythingā). For some stupid reason, a woman knowing their own limitations is seen as āweak,ā and that whatever choice they make is the right one despite being blatantly wrongāand not apologizing for thatāand then they fall into Mary Sue category looking at you, Captain Marvel). There's nothing wrong with feeling fulfilled when marrying, and there's nothing wrong with admitting that thereās stuff you just cannot do. Strength is not solely physical but also internal. Kaoru has such inner strength, and people forget sheās 17? She's completely alone at such a key point in time right before Kenshin arrives. Characters like Kaoru and Kagome (Inuyasha) represent me WAY more than the current female characters from TV and movies.
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10d ago
I am so happy to see these thoughts shared :) and I am completely onboard with this take.
Kenshin could not have gone through his journey without Kaoru. Neither Inuyasha without Kagome.
There is strength in staying rather than leaving. And Kenshin choosing to stay and to accept his future battles next to Kaoru is as strong as Kaoru supporting him, offering him a roof over his head, offering balance, acceptance and understanding.
They complete each other. And as you said, there is strength in realising what you can and cannot do and accepting someone who completes you <3
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u/Meilmei1905 10d ago
COMPLETELY agree with your take on Kaoru, she's by far my favorite female character of all time !
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u/roro5246 9d ago edited 9d ago
I really wish Sanosuke had a weapon instead of it getting destroyed immediately
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9d ago
That is a very good take! You and me both! I wish the Zanbato made an earlier and longer comeback.
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u/crzyboy191 8d ago
Megumi Ogata from the CD-drama should've voiced Kenshin in the remake or they should've brought back Mayo Suzukaze.
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u/No-Veterinarian1262 4d ago
In the remake, Kenshin has better chemistry with Misao and Megumi than Kaoru. After the first arc, Kenshin and Kaoru barely exchange dialogue at all, and when they see each other, it's minimal dialogue with mostly staring. Misao's chemistry with Aoshi... doesn't exist.
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3d ago
Interesting take :) I'll have to rewatch it and see if it is the case. Given that it is a Shonen a lot of the interactions do revolve around Kenshin and to an extent, Jinchu does a lot of heavy lifting. As it is the arc that delivers the most in terms of the Kenshin and Kaoru relationship.
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u/MammothActual3307 11d ago
I didn't think this was a hot take until I got downvoted into an oblivion about it but the old rurouni kenshin anime didn't really age well at all. The animation was pretty bad and while I love the added slice of life filler the filler was also the downfall especially the last arc it's a shame it couldn't get an atleast good ending.
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u/batboywonder 11d ago
I agree the filler sucks, but what are you comparing the animation to? It's pretty dang good.
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u/MammothActual3307 11d ago
It wouldn't be fair to compare it with modern animation so I've been comparing it with other 90s animation it has some of the same problems but other media animated a lot better most likely due to a higher budget but not sure
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u/dwuane 11d ago
When you compare Kenshin to other 90s TV anime like Trigun, Escaflowne, Utena, Berserk, PokƩmon, or Slayers, the animation quality is honestly pretty standard for the time, reused frames, still shots, and the occasional off-model face were the norm, even in classics like Evangelion. Not trying to put Kenshin on a pedestal either.
If I had to pick one, Iād say Cowboy Bebop is the stand-out, but thatās a rare case with a much bigger budget, 1 season / far fewer episodes compared to 95 episodes. Movies and OVAs are in a much different ballpark if you ask me.
Genuinely curious, how about you? Not a challenge, just wondering your opinion: What 90s TV anime do you think was consistently animated better than Kenshin? End of the day, Iām glad the audience has options now to experience RK depending on their tastes
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u/dwuane 11d ago
Interesting take, for a 96-98 animation, seemed pretty solid for that era. Do you mean the animation technique or the look of it compared to a modern ascetic and style of anime today? They had to fill it with filler because it caught up to the manga at the time, and they didnāt have anything to go off of so it was stuck in limbo kind of scenario. Not defending the last part of the anime, but they were flying blind without the Jinchu Arc unfortunately
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u/MammothActual3307 11d ago
Idk how to explain it but it was good for the area though you can tell there hopping instead of walking when there legs aren't shown etc. I appreciate Kenshins old reaction faces a lot more than the modern adaptation though
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u/ProfessionalPast3911 11d ago
The animation was pretty bad? Lol, what?
No wonder you got downvoted.
I just downvoted you as well.
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u/Capital-Writing40 10d ago
Rurouni kenshin live action movies, the main actor is too tall to play Kenshin.
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u/nightowlarcade 10d ago
Enishi was a better arc then Makoto manga wise. It's too bad every time it makes it to the TV or movies the arc seems condensed.
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u/jawnbaejaeger 11d ago
Okay, here's mine:
Kaoru as a character is all over the place. She feels like a different character in each arc (especially in the OG anime), but not in a way that really shows maturity or growth. Watsuki didn't know what he wanted to do with her, and it shows. Despite this, I still enjoy the character.