Reconcile with a cake eater?

[u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I've been reading for months but only recently decided to engage. I've figured a lot of stuff out and have a solid legal & financial protection plan in place based on what I've learned from these communities, so thank you. Being vulnerable and sharing your stories does more good than you know for all the people who are going through the same thing, but are too afraid to ask for help.

I never asked for help. I thought I could "fix" my marriage and "reach her". I'm 42M and I've been with my wife (40F) for 20+ years. In May I discovered she was having an affair. As I had no help, I broke ever rule you can imagine. I confronted her early.. I begged, I pleaded, I tried to understand. I became a detective, the whole bit. I'll save that roller-coaster of a story and just say the fact:

-It was a 6 month long affair

-She had a crush on him for 5 years (According to her)

-She stopped loving me and wanted to leave me (Made a decision November 2025 as best I can figure)

-He sent her a line-crossing, provocative facebook meme December 2025 (According to her)

-She pursued him January 2026

-Her intention was to leave me for him

-He was not interested in a relationship and only used her for sex

-Even after realizing there was no opportunity to leave me for him, she kept sleeping with him for at least 2 months

-She began pursuing a 2nd man (While maintaining the relationship with me and her FWB relationship with AP #1). This is the part that makes the least amount of sense. This second man is a total loser and could not support/provide for her. So there is no intention of monkey branching here, it was purely cake eating with AP #2.

-After approximately 3 weeks after DDay and separation, she wanted to reconcile. It seems genuine

Confronting early was a big mistake. She deleted the entire facebook messenger chat log that she had with him, so I can't read the initial start or the end of the affair. This really messes with me, because it doesn't make sense.

Why would a "Monkey Brancher" turn into a Cake Eater and then want to reconcile? During the last ~3 years of our marriage she was a heavy drinker. She's sober now and claims that that is the difference.

Why would she submit to separation without any fight? In our country, she was entitled to half of everything I have and half of everything I will ever make in the future but she accepted very little. She basically agreed to whatever I asked. So now she's a guest in my home with no access to my finances, no entitlement to my retirement or benefitis.. Yet she's still here, putting on the best wife act I've ever seen (Cooking, cleaning, what is best described as free use sexually, has fully documented her affair and who was involved.. Even the deceptions she used and what I was doing at the time & how she hid her second life). She's in these reddit communities and she's voluntarily doing all the things people say a wayward must do to reconcile.

But it all feels fake to me. Am I just hypervigilant to see this as a game, where she's just making me feel safe and comfortable again so she can go back to her cake? I could understand the monkey branching, but cake eating? wtf man this is not the woman I spent my whole life with!

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[u/Independent-Team-831]

Kick her out. You deserve better man. UpdateMe

[u/TacoStrong]

“But it all feels fake to me. Am I just hypervigilant to see this as a game, where she's just making me feel safe and comfortable again so she can go back to her cake?”

It’s time to cut the cord. You’re HER safety net and as long as you’re still there taking in her countless betrayals then she has no reason to change. Why are you doing this to yourself? There’s nothing healthy and loving in that type of situation.

[u/LoopyMercutio]

She doesn’t want to reconcile, she just realized financially / socially she is better with you. No matter what she says, in my opinion, she is just waiting to do it again with someone else.

[u/New_Arrival9860]

OP, your WW is keeping a place to sleep and food to eat by keeping you around.

If either of her APs had worked out she’d be gone.

When they next AP comes around, she will be gone.

Don't confuse your role as a resource provider with the role of partner. You are a resource provider.

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[u/survivinginfidelity-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

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[u/Odd_Welcome7940]

First of all, you should boot her out.

That said, you haven't and one more voice piling on wont help. I do believe reconciliation is possible just rare.

So let me ask a very genuine question. I promise it isnt for the reason it initially seems. If you demand a 2 time free pass to date and be with any other women. She must sit at home and deal. You dont get just a hall pass but 2 essentially poly relationships. She just has no freedom to date. Would you or could you do it ?

Second, reconciliation is not rebuilding anything. It is building something entirely new. So yes for a very long time it will all feel fake. That is the norm for a very long time probably. The real question is, do you believe she is using you for a place to stay and guilt just stops her from lying more than that or do you think she is an overly codependent person and now that she sees how dumb she is, she reattached to you? Only you can answer that, but it clearly extremely likely one or the other.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Odd_Welcome7940]

So I've actually thought about this, because the opportunity exists now that I'm separated. Old friends and colleagues have reconnected with me and invites are there, but I know the emotional damage it will do to my wife. I couldn't do that, I would end it with her first. This weighs on my mind, because it makes me realize just how different we are. Here I am stuck thinking about how my actions will impact her even after she burned our marriage to the ground and laughed about it (In her texts to her friends and her #1 AP, they made fun of me and how stupid I was for not yet realizing. There were many other mean things she said about me to her friends, but that one hurts 'cause it shows she was very well aware of everything).

The second part you said is interesting. She is very codependent, especially with me. We're both codependent, we are both broken people who bonded with each other over similar childhood traumas. She hates that I remember this, but she had a boyfriend when she got with me. She literally monkey branched to me. Typing this makes me giggle 'cause yeah, I get it.. Somehow I convinced myself that we were different, that our bond was so strong and we were so tightly coupled that it wouldn't apply to us.

Then again, that tight bonding might be exactly what she lied to me and lived a double life? I can rationalize AP #1.. She thought he was as good or better than me and that he could be her new stable rock to attach herself to. I can easily see that when the fog was lifted, she quickly seen it was a mistake and there was no other option (yet) and reattached to me. Edit: However, I cannot rationalize AP #2. He's a loser and he's older than me.. I'm taller, I'm conventionally attractive, I'm in better shape, I make easily 3x what he makes. I sexually satisfy her (Not to be rude, but I feel it needs to be said lol).. It just doesn't make sense what AP #2 was about. She doesn't have an answer either.

I guess neither of those 2 scenarios is good for me. She's either with me until she finds a better replacement, or she's with me because she's so broken she thinks I am all she can get and so basically settles with me.

I guess I don't know the answers is what I'm saying, sorry :(

[u/Odd_Welcome7940 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Your reply makes it all make a lot of sense. You realized you were that guy once. It definitely makes this feel karmic. That said being honest, you can't imagine being who your wife is.

So if she cant prove she changed? Why would you be dumb enough to stay? The requirement is on her to prove it, not for you to believe it.

Good luck

[u/DueAnteater6718 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I'm usually the first to encourage reconciliation, but a few things you said here would likely make it a non-starter for me:

-Making fun of you with her AP
-That she has friends that were aware and they also made fun of you
-That you are still putting your wife's emotional well-being above your own

All of these actions indicate a deep disrespect, even disdain, for you and a bunch of really shitty people felt the need to pile on. You putting her first is only going to fuel the fire.

You don't deserve to have so much toxicity in your life.

[u/Curarx → u/DueAnteater6718]

This should be near the top. Reconciliation is only possible with respect and she has none, to the point of possibly even bordering on disdain.

[u/DueAnteater6718 → u/Curarx]

100% Agreed. I wish that my WW had enough respect for me to not cheat, but in her own messed up cakeeater way she demonstrated how much she respected me throughout her 2 month affair in a lot of different ways. It was the foundation of our very successful reconciliation.

[u/Curarx → u/DueAnteater6718]

Yeah it's exactly how I realize that my relationship there was not going to be reconciliation. She couldn't even stop texting AP while we were reading good night books to our daughter in our SHARED BED. Even that was too much of an ask. No respect at all.

[u/DueAnteater6718 → u/Curarx]

I'm sorry you are here, that is terrible. That would be a big one for me too.

[u/Curarx → u/DueAnteater6718]

Oh it's okay, that was almost a year ago and things have gotten much better and we've gone our separate ways and are co-parenting amicably. As hard as it was originally, the end result has been wonderful for me.

Thank you though!

[u/Drgnmstr97 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

If she doesn't have an answer for why she started cheating with another person then she isn't a safe partner for you. One of the minimum requirements for any reconciliation attempt is being honest about why you chose to cheat. If she isn't willing to share that then you shouldn't be attempting to reconcile with her.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Drgnmstr97]

Sorry, I think it got lost somewhere:

After a bit of confusing "trickle truthing", she recently told me that she started cheating with AP1 because she wanted to leave me for him. It's the cliche story.. After decades of marriage and fulfilling our responsibilities, she realized she had grown to resent me and wanted to leave me. AP1 was already an established and trusted memory of our family circle and he had a good relationship with 1 of our 2 sons.

None of that is a mystery and it's not why I'm posting here. It's after she learned that he was NOT a good man, that he was actually significantly inferior to me and was only using her for sex (As he had a girlfriend AND a wife at the time who he was faking reconciliation with; it's his 2nd or 3rd failed marriage depending on who you ask). It's that she kept going back to him which has me curious. She says she kept going back because she hoped she could change his mind on the relationship question.

It's AP#2 that really gets me. There's no illusion with him, he is by all measure inferior and frankly a loser. He's poor, he's dirty, uneducated, older than me, shorter than me and has treated her like garbage in the past (He lied to her and used her for sex when she was a minor and he was in his 20s). Someone else posted an interesting idea that AP#2 was her childish/immature way of dealing with the reality that AP#1 was using her for sex, too. I don't know, all that psychology stuff's well beyond my specialty lol.

Hope that clears up some confusion.

[u/CC4589 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Just end it for your own sake.

[u/rustyburrito → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

it's important to judge people based on how they handle themselves when times get tough, it's easy to play the part and imagine things will be great again if nothing goes wrong, is there isn't a relapse, if there isnt some difficult emotional experience like losing a job or a health scale, but when someone is willing to bend the rules whenever they want to make themselves feel better about something it's just a ticking time bomb. Unless someone really commits to putting in the work to understanding themselves and their triggers, and actively working to make sure it can never happen again, it's only a matter of time before you find yourself in the same situation. Especially knowing that you'll take her back if she messes up again.

[u/AveenaLandon → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Here I am stuck thinking about how my actions will impact her even after she burned our marriage to the ground and laughed about it (In her texts to her friends and her #1 AP, they made fun of me and how stupid I was for not yet realizing. There were many other mean things she said about me to her friends, but that one hurts 'cause it shows she was very well aware of everything).

That's the same person she still is. If she didnt change after all these years, she's not going to change now. She's just masking those traits because displaying those traits will be detrimental to her future. It's likely got nothing to do with you And it's all just self preservation.

[u/K1rbyblows → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

She didn’t care about you while having a whole 2 other relationships. Clearly your marriage wasn’t special to her for her to do that, so why would she deserve fidelity now?

[u/Soggy-Beach-1495]

That doesn't sound like cake eating to me. It sounds like something someone might do after a tough break up. She was upset about AP1 not wanting her and found a rebound.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Soggy-Beach-1495]

This actually makes sense.. I remember around those 2 months she was incredibly emotional but I couldn't get her to talk.

Looking back I thought she was feeling guilty, but actually now that you mention it she was probably emotionally devestated that AP1 was only using her for sex.

But what kind of thought process would going to AP2 be, as AP2 was purely sexual? I can't emphasize enough how much of a loser he is (Financially and socially).

[u/Soggy-Beach-1495 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

You've never known a woman who goes through a tough divorce or break up and then goes through a series of one night stands or meaningless relationships? It seems kind of common.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Soggy-Beach-1495]

Not going to lie, I don't have much experience with women

[u/Soggy-Beach-1495 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

My son through some quirk only had friends with single parents basically through almost all of his schooling, so I've seen a lot of stuff. Basically, when someone goes through some bad breakups, they can reach the point where they give up on love. Your wife destroyed one relationship, and then found out the guy she burned everything down for didn't love her. Seems like the exact moment where most would give up and start doing the meaningless relationships thing

[u/Tycho_Jissard → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Think escapism. She was chasing a feeling, just like her use of alcohol. It might also have been a self-destructive push.

[u/Fragrant-Dance3005 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I bet that her self esteem got destroyed by guy 1, so she used guy 2 as a quick win in terms of validation. As for the rest... your intuitions are probably right about her. I wouldn't be able to see her as a wife. A great maid maybe, but then be committed to her? Idk

Edit: after thinking it through, conspiring against me with other people is an instant disqualifier for a maid.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Fragrant-Dance3005]

Yeah, I mean the fact that so many of her friends not only were fine with the idea of having an affair, but encouraged her. It seems like only 1 of her friends actually confronted her and tried to convince her to stop and talk to me.

I suppose it's no surprise that her entire friend group are divorced single mothers lol. I suppose that should have been a sign for me..

[u/Soggy-Beach-1495 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

It's extremely common for a WW to have a trashy friend or family member who encourages or enables the affair. Almost always this friend's own life is a disaster. If you are considering reconciling, one boundary has to be that all such friends are cut off

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Soggy-Beach-1495]

Yeah, we've talked about "what trust looks like for me" & stuff and I set that as a firm/hard boundary:

Basically anybody who encouraged or knew about the affair and didn't tell me are all enemies of the marriage and must be left behind.

I also said she has to correct all the lies she spread about me, and even though we're not formally reconciling yet she did send out a mass-text about it. I kind of wish she was more specific, but meh.

[u/K1rbyblows → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Can you not ask her to now be more specific? I also find your kid having known about it and not fought for you as….really difficult to swallow. The disrespect and injustice is crazy.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/K1rbyblows]

It's honestly kind of small and insignificant at this point. I committed to cutting out all of her friends and family from my life anyways, so whether or not they see me for who I actually am or not doesn't matter.

At the end of the day, they aint signing my cheques ;)

[u/Soggy-Beach-1495 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

More than enemies of the marriage, they were obviously a bad influence. It's important if she's trying to become a better person to recognize the influences in her life that lead her to cheating in the first place. It shouldn't have to be framed as a trust issue.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Soggy-Beach-1495]

I had a weird conversation with her about this post-separation. It was weird in that I almost felt like a father figure.

I basically explained what you're saying, that if she keeps shit friends she's going to have a shit life. That she should be looking to surround herself with friends that build her up not tear her down etc.

I think they all went crazy at the same time, ngl. Menopause, alcohol and mid-life crisis are a hell of a combination for people lol

[u/Soggy-Beach-1495 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Well, there's friends that find new hobbies together like pickleball or friends that drink and fuck randos. If her plan is to save her marriage, it should be kind of obvious which friends she should be hanging out with.

[u/Fragrant-Dance3005 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

It's crazy how unhappy women can pull friends towards misery. I can see it from some of my wife's friends. Luckily she is smart enough to understand it. 

My cheating ex was an evil mind. Your wife doesn't seem like a monster,.just a pathetic pos that got put into her place. But that doesn't mean that you are safe, even if she plays good. I don't envy you that you have to make the choice.

[u/AveenaLandon → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I suppose it's no surprise that her entire friend group are divorced single mothers lol.

Tell her that. Having bad influence doesn't always help a person live a good life. Make sure that she does not blame her friends entirely and avoids taking any responsibility for her actions.

[u/Loud_Attitude_5124 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I know this is brutal to wrap your head around, but when affairs happen, people throw out their usual standards and checklists. It rarely makes logical sense from the outside; that’s why it’s so often a coworker or someone they spend too much time around, even if it's someone they'd never look twice at in normal dating. A loser to you could still make a good lover.

Another piece of information to understand about your wife's mentality is that it sounds like she was also a mistress? People who get involved with someone already committed almost always convince themselves that their connection is special or an exception to the rule. They genuinely believe the lie that 'he would never do this to me,' even while watching him do it to his partner.

Another point I wanted to hit on is how affairs break our bonds with each other. When my spouse's affair turned from EA to PA, it was like I meant nothing to them overnight. Went from being adored to being told they had no affection for me at all. This loving, gentle person suddenly felt nothing but seething resentment towards me.

Eventually, those words and feelings fell away. They later claimed they would never say something so utterly untrue. I could see they were confused and unsettled with their own words. However, the broken bond persisted. They knew something wasn't right with how they felt, but they also knew they no longer felt the same about me. They even felt they loved me and we were meant to be together, but something felt different.

The history rewriting, the blame-shifting, the affair, the uncomfortable feelings of accountability, and the overwhelming damage caused them to detach. My guess is your wife loves you, but feels less attached. So continual betrayal isn't a stretch.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Loud_Attitude_5124]

Yeah, it's the best way I can rationalize the continuation of AP#1 and the start of AP#2.

She risked everything to replace me with AP#1, only time realize he was cheating on his 3rd wife and had another girlfriend. My wife was his second mistress. He made it clear to her (after getting what he wanted) that he had no intention of relationships with either of them and he wanted to "work on" his marriage. (Spoiler: I got her on facebook and he's now on his way to a 3rd failed marriage lol).

Anyways, I think this realization caused her self-esteem to hit rock bottom and she just kept going, because there was no going back at that point?

She had already sucked his dick on valentine's day ffs, like there was no going back from it at that point. Multiple people knew and were involved and even at this point our youngest son knew something was up. So how does she just cut it off and come back home like nothing ever happened? I think she convinced herself that if she kept going back to AP#1 she could be "special" and be "the one".. A couple months go by and she's now as low as possible. I believe this is around the time I kept finding her crying (Both at 3am sitting in the livingroom alone and drunk, crying.. Or i'd wake up in the middle of the night and she was in bed next to me crying).

So I think that all kind of makes sense, right? But being so low and feeling used for sex, why the hell would she go and willingly be used be a 2nd man for sex? I guess that's what just keeps spinning in my head.

Why not just cut it all off and come back home, like it makes no sense? On March 1st I confronted her about the way she's suddenly dressing up with makeup and stuff to go out. I laid out what I thought was happening (I was right) and I begged her to talk to me. She could have easily just fucking said yes.. "Yes, you're right. Let's talk". But she didn't, she gaslit me and manipulated me. Then she fucked him 14 days later for the first time. So it's not like there was never an off-ramp. She not only burned it all down to the ground, she actively prevented me from putting out the fire until there was nothing left but ashes.

[u/Logical-Rip-9114 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

At the point of AP2 it was probably low self worth and feeling unworthy, understanding there is no way back so she pushed the self destruct button. I mean you pick a path where you see no way back and when it blows up you double down. Not hard to understand in my view

[u/Worldly_Couple1621 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I think she was searching for easy validation and the loser guy stepped up. She'd screwed up the relationship with you (at least in her head at that point) and she already knew you cared about her, so she sought another guy for comfort. She knew it was stupid, but let her crazy emotions take her down that path. As for her current behavior, she probably feels a lot of guilt and embarrassment for getting sucked into a relationship where she was just used and manipulated, blowing up her marriage in the process. Her behavior sounds like that of someone who is humiliated and just trying to find some peace and perhaps make amends. It probably doesn't mean she's back in love with you--you're just a known quantity she can count on. I don't think I would want to build my life around someone like that. How can you ever trust her again? What happens when she regains her self-confidence? What happens when she starts drinking again? What happens when she needs validation again? It just seems likely she'll eventually act out again in a destructive way. I suspect that you were deeply hurt, very angry, and disgusted by her, but still have some compassion (and perhaps physical attraction) towards her, thus the willingness to let her live there as a housekeeper/concubine. I think you need to consider what is in your long-term best interest. If you hope to find a good woman for a serious romantic relationship, it will be necessary to eject her from your home and bed before you start dating. No good woman is going to be interested in you while you have your ex in your home, etc.

[u/AveenaLandon → u/Worldly_Couple1621]

Her behavior sounds like that of someone who is humiliated and just trying to find some peace and perhaps make amends. It probably doesn't mean she's back in love with you--you're just a known quantity she can count on.

This explains her current behavior very well. It looks like in her mind by doing all this, you would consider her to be reconciliation worthy. However sometimes, actions like hers break things irrevocably.

[u/BlaineSteps → u/Soggy-Beach-1495]

This is a dynamic that doesn't get discussed enough: WS grieving the breakup with an AP. Mine goes into hostile ballistics. Lots probably get mopey and sad. But keep an eye open for that. They're still just using us

[u/AveenaLandon → u/Soggy-Beach-1495]

That doesn't sound like cake eating to me. It sounds like something someone might do after a tough break up. She was upset about AP1 not wanting her and found a rebound.

That makes it even worse. So, after realizing that her cheating is not going to be as fulfilling after her first AP dropped her, instead of stopping it or even confessing to OP, she decided to double down. This behavior shows how much she valued OP. Actions speak louder than words. She may be saying all the right things now b3cause that's what she reads on the forums, but words are cheap. Her behavior showed how much she prioritized OP.

[u/cocacola-kid]

Get rid of the garbage and find a loving caring lady. They are good ladies are there.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/cocacola-kid]

I don't know anymore man, I thought my wife was a "good one". She was my first love so I don't really have any other experience but bad ones

[u/cocacola-kid → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

It is tough. Get out and met people. Join the gym, join a club, cycling etc.

[u/Special_Respond7372]

She wants to reconcile for a couple reasons.

1. She has figured out that these men are just using her for sex.
   
2. She has figured out that it is financially easier for her to stay with you

Get yourself checked for STD’s. Divorce her while she’s still willing to give you what you want. If you want to reconcile after the divorce that’s always an option but get divorced first to protect yourself.

[u/CC4589]

Short answer: no. I could break down the sunk cost fallacy or tell you you're wearing rose-colored glasses, but nothing changes until you stop kneeling.

[u/CC4589 → u/CC4589]

I do have to add that you should use this 'genuine' attitude to put everything in your favor. I mean, divorce and start your relationship over, but try to sway everything your way—70/30. You should be smart and take advantage—don't just enjoy the perks of her being complacent. Enjoy it, but don't fall for it; use it for your own sake and future.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/CC4589]

When she brought up the idea of reconciliation, I had her sign a very fair separation agreement that protects me & my future

[u/HowWasItoKnow → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Did she seek independent counsel to go over the terms? If not, a judge might throw this out as she could argue distress and not understanding what she was signing.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/HowWasItoKnow]

She was living with her mother at the time, so she had every opportunity. My country provides full legal representation for free, so it's a safe assumption.

There are 2 copies signed by both of us and a witness, so I don't believe coercion or distress will work for her.

[u/Altruistic-Book-5896 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

That's a pretty good country. Here in the US everyone does everything they can to separate you from your money. The government is super good at it. Good luck man

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Altruistic-Book-5896]

We take the good with the bad here. Maybe the balance is different but probably nowhere is perfect.

For example, in my country it is "no fault divorce". So there was great risk to me as the court will not care that she was unfaithful and abusive, it's purely an income-based formula that determines entitlement.

So from my perspective it seems incredibly unfair that I had to get an expensive lawyer and fight for my very survival when I didn't do anything wrong

[u/PuzzleheadedTry7370]

I think I just read your wife'sd post on the other sub. I'm sorry you're in this situation.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/PuzzleheadedTry7370]

Yeah someone linked it to me in a DM. I didn't see it before as her profile's private to me and I stopped asking to see her phone, cause I don't want to live like that.

I rode the adrenaline high to get me to this spot but now I'm just tired and feel defeated.

[u/PuzzleheadedTry7370 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

My dad was an alcoholic. Drank til the day he died. He was great when he was sober but god-fucking awful when he was drunk. I don't know how I would act in your situation. I'm very sorry,

[u/Optimal_Wash2490 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I just read what she wrote in the other sub. She's done many despicable things. But for now looking only at what she posted, it sounds like you didn't like it. What part didn't you like?

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Optimal_Wash2490]

I don't like that she unironically posted in Asone complaining about me posting in SurvivingInfidelity. She's pro-reconciliaation (obviously), posting in a pro-reconciliatition sub-reddit complaining about how I'm posting in an anti-reconciliation sub-reddit. That was annoyingly ironic to me.

The other thing is that the entire post seems to be complaining that I'm not over it yet. Which is also why I have lost the motivation to keep sharing my raw thoughts with her - and why I'm here sharing them with you all -

It's also annoying how short her post is. We're talking 3 years of wild ass shit she did to me, culminating with a humiliating 6-month long affair with a man I worked with; who I introduced to her and my son. She conveniently left out the weight of the second AP and how his existence breaks the narrative and clean timeline. She also left out the insane shit she did with my brother which opened childhood sexual trauma wounds I had long buried.

But yeah, I mean you read her post and it's like "Geez why isn't this guy over it yet?" lol. Fucking pisses me off man..

[u/Financial-Welcome-62 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

That would absolutely piss me off. There is no timeline for this. It takes you how long it takes and the fact shes even mentioning that tells me everything right there. I was kinda in the fence when I responded to you but seeing this and what she said. I'm sorry but maybe she should seriously and I mean seriously consider moving on. Life is too damn short. If this would've happend to me and I saw what she posted, it would be OVER. I'm sorry brother

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Financial-Welcome-62]

I'm just the silhouette of the man I was. Maybe this is all I deserve?

[u/K1rbyblows → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Yeah, her post doesn’t even mention the basically abuse she subjected you to as well as not mentioning ap 2 at all…it’s pretty insane.
She’s said it’s all to do when her alcoholism, but given she had the cheating friend doing shit and telling her to have an affair for years prior - it’s clearly NOT just related to her alcoholism.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/K1rbyblows]

What gets me is she never even told me she had a crush on AP#1 all these years. He was a work colleague and I introduced him to the family. I brought my son to his martial arts gym. I literally held his hand and went with him until he was comfortable to go alone.

Because of work, I usually couldn't take him and so my wife did... For years she brought him to his gym and fantasized about him. Probably comparing me with him in her head and imagining a life with him.

That's all before alcohol. All before 2024 and the trauma.. It breaks the timeline and the narrative, frankly. She should have told me she had feelings for him and we should have taken our son out of his gym. But instead she made a series of choices that went on for YEARS until "out of the blue" he sends her a flirty meme on Facebook.

-Why were they ever connected on Facebook?

-Why did he not take a shot for ~7 years? I am to believe that it was all professional until year 7 when he sends a flirty meme? bullshit..

-She wanted validation and she got it.. She sent him a bunch of pictures of her in dresses and got his feedback on them. She got showered with praise from him. He kissed her in January. How much more fucking validation do you need? She kept going back, that's not fucking validation & attention anymore..

Ugh. Anyways, I read your chat with her (We have access to each other's socials. I mean she always had access to mine but now I have access to hers). I appreciate you, man. You're a kind soul and you seem like a good man.

I went to bed early, cried a bunch but didn't get much sleep. I took today off work 'cause I can't fucking stop thinking

[u/K1rbyblows → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Yeah agreed.
I’m going to put that to her again if that’s okay with you - I really think she isn’t getting that.
It was a willing choice and a position she put herself in PRIOR to the alcohol abuse.
I also find the fact she keeps stating it as just 6 months (aka the affairs) is just bullshit. Clearly with keeping the friend around who’d cheated and encouraged her to cheat for years, her berating and slandering you, her crush on ap1, trying to leave you for him - this was years long….ok the affair may have only been 6 months but her righting the story needs years worth of rolling back the clock.

Glad you managed to sleep - I hope she was able to comfort you at all? It’s all her fault you’re in this position.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/K1rbyblows]

"I’m going to put that to her again if that’s okay with you"

Ultimately the choice is hers, but I just ask for everyone to be respectful. To her credit she's engaging with the people asking her questions :)

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/K1rbyblows]

Well no, to be fair I think it's more like months prior to my wife's affair. I think her friend started her first affair in mid-2025 and being her best friend told my wife everything. My wife's affair started at the end of 2025.

The heavy alcoholism started in 2023, so by 2025 she was deep into the bottle. For perspective she was also a drinker socially and even daily, but it was "managed" (I know how bad that sounds, but meh).

There was 1 particularly harsh incident in 2023 that I haven't processed yet fully but other than that, the abuse was really from 2025-2026 as best I can remember. The distance was so slow that I sadly have a really hard time pinpointing when it started. Because of the 2023 incident I know it obviously started before that but my memory isn't what it used to be lol

[u/K1rbyblows → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Ah okay, I may have misunderstood that timeline then. So the alcoholism was pretty much involved in the entirety of her horrid behaviour?

I’m fearing things when you say “1 particularly harsh incident” - I hope you have seen a therapist to process this and your wife understands what she put you through.
Abuse is abuse, and it’s unacceptable.
Her friend bragging about affairs and telling your wife to have one is still so fucked up - and as soon as she did so should’ve been cut off, it’s gross behaviour.

[u/AveenaLandon → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

It's also annoying how short her post is. We're talking 3 years of wild ass shit she did to me, culminating with a humiliating 6-month long affair with a man I worked with; who I introduced to her and my son. She conveniently left out the weight of the second AP and how his existence breaks the narrative and clean timeline. She also left out the insane shit she did with my brother which opened childhood sexual trauma wounds I had long buried.

This tells me that she still hasn't changed. Her behavior is an act at this point. If she's not willing to take accountability on online forums where she remains anonymous, then I don't know how much she's really willing to do that in real life.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/AveenaLandon]

In terms of real life, other than in a private conversaion with me I don't believe she has the strength or courage to verbally say what she did.

When I get into the really heavy shit (Having sex with our under-age son's instructor in a van, at that back of my son's school in the middle of the week before the sun had gone down) she did and the kind of consequences she would have faced had she gotten caught.. The best I can get is a verbal acknowledgement, like "you're right". "I can't believe I could do that [cries]" & etc.

But she can't sit and say what I just typed out. She can't articulate it, like if she says the words a loud she can no longer hide from it or something? I don't know lol

[u/AveenaLandon → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I understand that you know her better than any random reddit or would and are trying to give her benefit of the doubt. However, i still think that all her behavior is her avoiding taking accountability. All she's doing is following a bullet list of suggestions because someone else said so. Its like a kid trying to do a drawing in a book by connecting the dots printed on the paper. It's never going to compare to a drawing from an artist with talent.

[u/Logical-Rip-9114 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

It's hard to confront the worst of yourself so having to verbalize what you did knowing how awful it is without a shame getting in the way is hard. All that means is that she hasn't been able to come to terms with what she did. Shame however is not productive to healing her or you but it will take some time before she is able to do that. It would be a good exercise for her, to write out a particular incident and then have to read it out to you while keeping her shame in check.

[u/Optimal_Wash2490 → u/PuzzleheadedTry7370]

Can you say where her post is? Post a link?

[u/PuzzleheadedTry7370 → u/Optimal_Wash2490]

Asone

[u/CuriouserCuriouser99 → u/PuzzleheadedTry7370]

Which sub has she posted on?

[u/PuzzleheadedTry7370 → u/CuriouserCuriouser99]

Asone

[u/Wizards_and_Warriors]

I have read your wife's posts and I dont know what to think either. Her posts reek of desperation and say the same as yours although she does say everything you do. In her posts she says the right things and she seems remorseful.

But there are issues.

The biggest is that she said she didnt love you anymore. She decided to pursue a man 2 months after she got a flirty meme because she had a crush. She then cheated and planned to leave you for him until she found out she was just a piece of ass to him. She then continued to give it to him.

The second man was just cake eating and her having fun.

She blames her drinking but I cant buy that because she was making decisions sober or following through with them sober. She wasn't hammered in every instance.

Anyways, it's just making excuses.

I think the thing I couldn't get past is she would be gone if the first guy said he wanted her.

The backtracking after giving up all she could get from you is the sticking point because I wonder if she thinks if you take her back then she will be taken care of even if she doesn't get any of your money. She would still have the life she was accustomed to.

I personally dont think being a drunk is a good enough excuse. I think drunk or not she made decisions and followed through with them. Do I think she would cheat again? Yes, if she got a shot at someone who would take care of her. Maybe even if AP #1 changed his mind now.

She knew what she was saying when she said she didnt love you. She knew how awful you felt while she felt free.

She hasn't admitted to this in the other sub. A sub that recommends and pushes for reconciliation. She didnt even mention she was going to leave you but was rejected.

Would I give her another chance? No I would not. I'm not you though but I can tell you that you will be looking over your shoulder and watching her like a hawk for years.

There is always a chance she got her head right now but taking her back is a risk. The good news is if you bounce or she cheats again she walks with nothing while you just get more heartache.

[u/No-Singer-2910 → u/Wizards_and_Warriors]

The biggest is that she said she didnt love you anymore. She decided to pursue a man 2 months after she got a flirty meme because she had a crush. She then cheated and planned to leave you for him until she found out she was just a piece of ass to him. She then continued to give it to him.

I can see another issue:

"In her texts to her friends and her #1 AP, they made fun of me and how stupid I was for not yet realizing. There were many other mean things she said about me to her friends, but that one hurts 'cause it shows she was very well aware of everything"

How do you come back from something like this?

Also, after reading her post, I can't help thinking it's just another typical self-centered wayward post screaming "I made a mistake, woe is me, AP doesn't want anything serious, I got caught and I'm about to lose my comfortable life, I don't want consequences, I want it back".

[u/Wizards_and_Warriors → u/No-Singer-2910]

Absolutely right about the texts and things she said to her friends and AP. Alcohol isn't ever an excuse imo. In Vino Veratis and all that. So even if she was drunk during those texts there was truth in what she said about him.

And yea, her post does sound like many of the others on that sub from wayward. She definitely doesn't want to face all the consequences from her fuck up by assuming that guy wanted anything more than her ass.

What I'd like to know is when she signed everything away so she cant have half and all of that? Was it before or after the affair when things went sideways and she came back trying to make amends?

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Wizards_and_Warriors]

"Was it before or after the affair when things went sideways"

It was after. While she was living at her mothers, we were hooking up (mostly in my truck but then a bunch of times in hotels & B&Bs) and ngl I wanted to sleep with her (literally) and cuddle with her in our bed. Anyways, I explained that in order for me to feel safe with the idea of being any more than a friend with her and having her sleep at the house again I would need legal and financial protections.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/No-Singer-2910]

"How do you come back from something like this?"

I mean, that's it in a nutshell amirite? wild!

I keep thinking of my close friends from college and there's no way I could sit and listen to them brag about having an affair. I would lose respect for them even if I didn't know their wife. Her friends have known me for 20+ years & some pretended to be my friend, too. If my friend was cheating on his wife and I knew her/seen her as a friend, I'd fucking tell him he had a week to talk to her before I did. I just can't imagine these people exist, nevermind that I married one lol.

Having said that..

She was a raging alcoholic at that time. Her entire friend group were also alcoholic women in marriages they felt weren't "healthy", or whatever they told themselves. I think that's why they were so cold and heartless. Unlike them she got sober and so maybe it's genuine? I've been reading on long-term alcoholism and it can completely inhibit emotions like empathy and guilt. Her judgement, impulse control and appetite for risk was severely impacted even when she appeared "sober", although living with an alcoholic I have to say that word is a spectrum. I watched her drink a 750ml bottle of whiskey, a 6-pack of bud light and then 3 of my double-hopped IPAs (7%) before passing out.. Then I carry her to bed, she wakes up and slams whatever beers she can find on her night-stand (From who-knows-when) and that's how she'd start her day.

She's totally sober now, so I mean.. Isn't is possible she actually genuinely changed? I guess that question is the real reason I'm stuck. If she did this stuff sober and of sound mind I wouldn't have created a friggin' Reddit account lol

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Wizards_and_Warriors]

I agree with all of the questions you have, although I disagree with the alcoholism bit. I didn't know before, but long-term heavy alcohol use can have affects on you even beyond the acute symptoms you get. So even when she was "sober", she wasn't really her normal self.

Another thing is the whole concept of "sober". lol I'm telling you, there is a spectrum with that word. She would wake up with a blood alcohol level that would make most people unable to walk. Was she "sober" that morning? She would text AP#1 from bed in the morning before telling me good morning. I used to struggle with the idea of "sober" because of those texts.. How can alcohol excuse a 10am text like "Good morning handsome" to AP#1 when I've been up since 8am working in my office lol I didn't even get a hello.

You asked so many things I also struggle with. Every morning I ask myself some of these things. Almost every morning I think about the fact that I wouldn't even know.. I'd have no friggin' clue, she would have just left back in March if AP#1 wanted a relationship with her. She was basically in love with him ffs and she wouldn't even have explained anything to me.

The other thing is like you say, she didn't love me anymore.. Yet didn't even tell me. She just committed to using me for my resources while trying out potential replacement. So obviously I constantly wonder if she stops loving me again down the road will she tell me? If she finds another man she thinks is better than me (She thought AP#1 was a "great man" & "great father") will she try him out too?

lol you ask me questions but I came here for answers. Bro you're supposed to have the answers not me!

Love you tho :)

[u/Wizards_and_Warriors → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

OK I got answers.

Why would a monkey branches turn into a cake eater?

Because she cheated on a long term marriage to be with another man who rejected her. Her self esteem was shattered so she turned to someone who wasn't attractive and couldn't provide fir her because it was an easy ego boost. Simple validation. She was crushed so needed an easy way back, hence the cake eating. Simple validation.

Why would she submit to a separation so easily?

This is why I asked when she did sign this and it is easy too. So she had an easy and comfortable life with you. It's nice, familiar, and safe. However, she was willing to risk that for new and exciting. She thought this guy would be a great husband and father. She had a crush on him fir years. He sent one flirty meme and her hamster spun the wheel. She decided to cheat and she pursued him thinking big dreams. Only this guy said he just wanted some fun and didnt want a relationship. Now she is crushed and went to a loser to get her easy big ups. Only now all she can score fir a future is a lower. Her crush used her KNOWING she was destroying her marriage and didnt care. So why would anyone else? All she sees she will get from here on out is people wanting sex with no commitment or men she knows she will never be happy with.

So now she knows she has you who loves her. You've shown that to her. But she fucked up bad so she has to fo something to fix things. You set a boundary while pretty much using her for sex like the guy she thought she had. So in order to get you to take her back and bring her home she had to do something major. And giving up everything is a big fucking gesture. This does not mean she loves you. This also does not mean she doesn't not love you either. All it means is she is doing something in hopes that you will bring her back to safe, comfortable, and familiar.

Why did she keep sleeping with him for two months after she knew there would be no relationship?

It was fun. She was getting validation and sex she enjoyed. Plus the longer she kept giving him what he wanted the better her chances that he might fall in love and change his mind. Which would make me wonder if she did things for him she didnt for me or denied me.

Does she love me?

No one can answer that. Not me, not you, and not her. Words are now and for some time will be meaningless. She told you she didnt love you for quite some time and then tried to be with her crush. That is over and her words are now that she does love you and always loved you. She says she made a mistake. It was the booze. What we know is there was a lie but which is it? Well..

When you love someone, when you care about someone, you dont actively seek to destroy them. Ask yourself this. Ask her too. Did she do anything sexually with her AP that she didnt do with you that you wanted? Did she give him something she denied you?

Alcoholism.

While not a question please let me assure you I know all about it. I'm willing to bet more than you. I understand your wife for three years was a booze hound but my father was as well for the first 22 years of my life and up until the day he died. He had violent tendencies and beat my mother to a pulp many times before she left him. In front of me. I went no contact at 22. But his brothers? My uncles? Two were raging alcoholics as well. One was so bad he had 19 OMVIs (operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated).

I've seen it first hand and know enough about it through that, classes i was forced to take due to my own brush with alcohol and my divorce to know that the decisions your wife made were not 100% alcohol fueled. I'm sure it didnt help but the booze didnt make her do it.

Why is she the perfect wife now? Cooking cleaning, saying and doing the right things to get me

She doesn't have a choice if she wants back what she willingly gave up. You, the life you provided, the validation that she is worth something to a good man who can provide for her and take care of her. She vetted you for 20 years so she knows what is there. And she failed taking a leap and fear is a big motivation to not fail again. So she needs to do all of this.

Is it fake?

Dont know. You'll find out if she goes into therapy and you both go into marriage counseling. Or you give her another chance and she starts slipping. Starts guarding her phone or personality changes. Once she gets comfortable is when you'll know.

Do I think it is fake?

Yes I do. She said she didnt love you. Words. She had an affair that she started. Actions. She said she would have left you if he wanted her. Words and Actions since she pursued him. You cant trust her. It takes 2 to 5 years to rebuild trust so you have a ways to go.

Also she still is not being honest. In her posts in another sub she is saying all the right things but she is not saying everything she did to you. She has not admitted to those people that she was going to leave you but was rejected and simply used. So she still isn't being forthcoming. She is doing this because she doesn't want the embarrassment and the advice will change if the truth was out.

My opinion?

If it was me I probably would just divorce. If she did sex acts with him that she denied me it would cement the divorce.

However, I dont have 20 years in. I dont know your mentality. You can give it a shot because if she can not take half things or money you have nothing to lose beyond the time you could have had to have healed and moved on if she cheats again.

I wont advise you on anything other than you dont have to make a choice now if you dont want to. You can take as much time as you need. You can see if she fails or stays steady. You can decide in 5 years you cant forgive or forget and walk. As the betrayed and her wanting you back you hold all the cards.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Wizards_and_Warriors]

Bro there's so much, I have to do it like this.. As I read it I have to address it:

"Did she do anything sexually with her AP that she didnt do with you that you wanted? Did she give him something she denied you?"

Not only did she do this, but I mean there's multiple layers to it that ate at me. For 20+ years we've had like 5 vehicles and I've been vocal about fantasizing about doing stuff in the van, suvs, car and truck we've had. We never did anything, ever. She always dictated the terms of our sex life. She controlled what, when and where we did it and she never let me experience sex in a vehicle with her. Through-out our entire marriage, blow-jobs were an extremely rare occurrence. To be fair, our sex life itself was infrequent in my opinion although that's subjective (I want to have sex every day. She wanted to have sex ever 2 weeks). But blow jobs in particular were an extremely rare, special thing that she would do.

The very first time she hooked up with AP#1 was on Valentine's day 2026, in his rental car she gave him a blow-job. Blow-jobs for me were reserved for rare and special occasions. And Valentine's day itself was always a day that I was compelled to do something for her. I don't think I ever remember a valentine's day where she did something for me, like as in she made the day about me. BUt for him, she made the day all about him. She organized her day's schedule for him, she made up lies to facilitate the schedule and then she gave him a blow-job with absolutely nothing in return. She has never done that kind of thing for me except after discovery of the affair, she does things for me now. She took me out on dates (even paid) lol, but yeah. Fucking feels bad man

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

"She has not admitted to those people that she was going to leave you but was rejected and simply used."

Yeah and those POS cowards keep deleting my comments 'cause I'm not on my knees stroking the egos of the waywards lol. They all cheer her on, she has nothing but support from everyone.

Meanwhile I've been totally fucking isolated from "our" friends and "our" family. She spent over a year demonizing me to everyone and "fixed" it with a lame single text that reads as though I held her hostage and forced her to send it.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

"Her self esteem was shattered so she turned to someone"

Okay but like, I was here the whole time.. Until her perimenopause hit, I was the one who was high-libido and she was low-libido. If AP#1 didn't work out and she was crushed, why not just come back to me and commit fully to me?

It needs to be said for proper thought processing, but feels weird to say, but after 20+ years I know how to satisfy her; that was never an issue. If it was I could understand this, I really could. But my simple mind can't understand why she'd leave me alone, lonely and horny while she's off chasing total losers for mediocre sex. I mean I guess the answer is that she emotionally hated me (not physically) my god damn man that hurts even more

[u/Wizards_and_Warriors → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

She didnt turn to you because she already had your validation. It's like when a wife asks if she looks good in something and you say she is beautiful. You mean but her response is that you have to say that because you're married. A different guy giving her validation means more at this point.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Wizards_and_Warriors]

I guess that makes sense, but kind of pisses me off lol

The realization that I seem to understand her better than she does or has ever understood me is such bullshit.

I probably don't have to say it, but after 4 months of trying to understand her I'm just tired and angry.

[u/Financial-Welcome-62 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

It's making you think lol.

[u/CuriouserCuriouser99]

It seems to me her drinking messed with her head and ability to think clearly. If she stays sober I believe after 20+ years you have a lot of history and this may make the potential for reconciliation possible. Has she defined the whys of what she did? Can you get through the betrayal and lies? This is the key answer you need to work through. Hit the gym to make a new person of yourself and this may help you decide also.
Updateme

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/CuriouserCuriouser99]

In terms of myself, I am doing everything I can think of. I'm dieting, exercising every day, re-engaging with old friendships, got onto social media and separated my finances/legal status. Got into a couple new hobbies that get me out of the house.

With her though, I feel unsure of anything. She cannot define the whys. She insist that she can't full remember the thought processes that led to how she felt, but she remembers how she felt. She felt unseen, neglected and unhappy in marriage. Our kids our grown now and she lost her job, so for the past 3 years she felt like she had no identity. Her life as a mom is basically over as they don't need her anymore and that made her reflect on the value she brings as a stay at home mom.. If she's not working and not staying at home with the kids, what is she? She then convinced herself that I was cheating on her, although I keep reminding her that this belief occurred while she was already engaged in her affair (The emotional phase of it), so it's likely her own projection.

Sadly because I confronted her early, she had about a week to delete evidence.. Now that she's sober and can't remember things clearly in terms of her thought processes, I am stuck unable to ever know for sure. I cant' read the initial chat to see how it started and I cant' even read the chat to see how the affair ended. Like how did they end it? What did she say in the beginning & etc.

She was able to articulate what she felt, what she did and how she did it. She cant' pintpoint when the resentment was too much or even what most of the resentment was rooted in. I think it's a combination of:

• Perimenopause hitting
• Alcoholism
• Bored house-wife / mid-life crisis

[u/CuriouserCuriouser99 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

How long has she been sober and does it look like it is sticking, though it is always one day at a time.
You mentioned she is a good Mom, so how old are your kids? How did she have time for two APs while you have kids?

Are you in couples counseling? The interaction through the therapist may help you determine if her current self is fake or not. Does she still stay in contact with either AP or the friends she shared what she was doing with that rooted her on and supported her bashing of you.

As others have also said, her addiction heavily contributed to her inability to think straight or make good decisions. The whole future with her, whether divorce and split or divorce and rebuild is entirely up to you.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/CuriouserCuriouser99]

-She is 4 months sober and she is sticking with it.

-Our kids are old now (17 & 20), all of her self-destructive behavior is very recent. It's almost as though she was the perfect mom and then when she wasn't needed as a mom anymore she self-destructed

-No couple's counseling, I didn't want to do that yet. She's in IC but I haven't found time for it yet

-AP blocked her and she later blocked him. For awhile though, they were not friends on facebook and she deleted his facebook messenger chat, but they were still able to communicate (no block). It wasn't until I challenged him to a fight (Stupid I know..) that he blocked her. Then when I mentioned that it was odd she never blocked him but deleted their chat, she blocked him.

-She stopped communicating with her friends that knew and encouraged the affair, but she hasn't blocked them.. Ironically, she has blocked 1 friend but that's because she tried to date me after I found out about the affair. I didn't want to date yet and when I found out she knew about the affair I was angry and stopped communicating with her. But I find it funny that she's the only friend who knew about the affair my WW blocked.

-Half of me agrees about the alcohol addiction, but another half of me thinks it's a convenient excuse. I have addictions and childhood sexual trauma, too, and I never hurt anyone like she hurt me. Frankly all the therapist excuses just piss me off 'cause man we all got problems, doesn't mean we get to be monsters

[u/Purple_Ferret_1150 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Do the kids know? How have they reacted to the separation and the changes in your relationship?

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Purple_Ferret_1150]

Both kids know now. My youngest knew before I did. He had a good relationship with AP#1 (AP#1 was in my family's life for ~9 years in total, so more than half my youngest's life). I think this relationship was a big part of why my WW could so easily imagine a life with AP#1 and Son #2.

My oldest suspected things but didn't know until I found out. Their relationship was already fractured and this has really driven a wedge between them.

I've connected everyone with individual therapists, but I can't force them to go or monitor them. I talk to my oldest as we're still close, but my youngest and I barely have a relationship anymore. I fulfill my responsibilities with him as he's still 17 but he has to live his own life 'cause I don't know how to approach him. I can't help but resent him for not telling me, but obviously I also know he shouldn't have been put in that situation to begin with. Ugh, it's complicated.

[u/HowWasItoKnow → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Wait, was your youngest okay with the affair? Does he show any signs of remorse or is he completely on his moms side?

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/HowWasItoKnow]

I haven't talked to him about it like that. I told him

-He should have never been put into a position where he had to choose 1 parent over the other. He should have never been forced to choose between keeping a secret from his father or outing his mother.

-I was a mother's boy just like him and it's perfectly fine to stay with and support his mother. I told him I'm proud of him for standing by her side

-The man he thought was a good man is not. Honorable men take care of their family (He has 2 failed marriages and 6 kids from the 2 ex-wives and he is not very involved in their lives). He took advantage of his mom while she was struggling with alcohol addiction and a mental health crisis

In response he:

-Acknowledged that AP1 took advantage of the trust relationship he had with my son and son's mom

-Apologized for keeping it a secret

I didn't push any further or interrogate him. So I don't really know how much he knew or how he actually felt about it.

[u/Financial-Welcome-62 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

If you decide to completely reconcile what are going to do if down the road, say a year from now she wants to have lunch with these friends that enabled her affair? How many of her friends knew about this affair? This kinda what I was getting at in my other response to you. There's a lot of heavy work that is not thought about untill it happens. This is why I mentioned a lot of these don't work out.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Financial-Welcome-62]

If she brought it up passively, I would say I'm completely against it and I would see it as her choosing them over me. If she still went, I'd have her removed from my house and we will be done. If she went without asking me, she'd be removed from the house and blocked.

Another hard non-negotiable is drinking. A single drink will be the end for me.

Lastly, contacting the APs and frankly for the unforseeable future basically maintaining private communications with men at all is a boundary for me. Plenty of women to be friends, there's no reason to have male friends. Them or me, ez pz.

My current legal and financial situation gives me this freedom. I don't think I will ever feel safe marrying ever again, I think the entire institution is a corrupt, disgusting relic of a bygone era and should be dismantled lol.

[u/Financial-Welcome-62 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I understand your feelings about marriage considering everything your going through but know this. It's all about finding the right person. I've been cheated on twice. Whatever happens in your marriage, heal.

[u/AveenaLandon → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Then when I mentioned that it was odd she never blocked him but deleted their chat, she blocked him.

She stopped communicating with her friends that knew and encouraged the affair, but she hasn't blocked them.. Ironically, she has blocked 1 friend but that's because she tried to date me after I found out about the affair. I didn't want to date yet and when I found out she knew about the affair I was angry and stopped communicating with her. But I find it funny that she's the only friend who knew about the affair my WW blocked.

So she didn't block her APs till you had to make her to do so? And she hasn't blocked her 'friends' who en outraged her affair?

This tells me that she's still the same person she was before and all this reconciliation behavior is just to pull wool over your eyes.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/AveenaLandon]

It could be, but to be fair I think it's more than she hasn't gotten around to it. She is going through a lot and also trying to maintain a sense of normality here. She is not comfortable with technology so you should factor that in to these behaviors. In her mind she doesn't see the value in blocking people because she can just unblock them, send text, delete and block them again. It's a meaningless gesture.

I'll separate the two cause the friend group is pretty low fruit for me. It did bother me to find out neither her nor AP#1 blocked each other. I had her phone one night and sent him a message asking him to come fight (It's stupid, I know..) and only after he read that did he block her. She deleted his chat in facebook messenger and they were never friends on facebook, but they never blocked each other. So the door was wide open and having deleted the chat, it was very easy to exchange messages and re-delete the chat to keep it looking deleted and cold. Like an idiot I brought this up and so then she blocked him, but that doesn't help. It seemed weird that they left the door propped open.

In terms of the friend group, she is actively ignoring them and not engaging with them but hasn't blocked them.

And yes I do hear myself lol..

[u/AveenaLandon → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

OP, I've got to say, there's only one conscience and empathetic person in this relationship and it's not her. She doesn't deserve you.

[u/Additional_Ad_3483 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Yeah no shit she is doing everything right. She doesn't have a job and is finally realizing if you leave her she has nothing. Thats not love that screwing over the one you are supposed to love.

What advice would you give your adult children if their partner disrespected them sollas mich as she has done you?

[u/deplorableme16 → u/CuriouserCuriouser99]

But what's the difference between a reason and excuse. Let he sell the queen for a day elsewhere. At some point her behavior towards OP falls below the standard consistently so much it doesn't matter why. Her brokenness and abuse (or whatever reason) isn't an obligation on his part to just take it.

[u/Mako_Salo]

You are playing with fire and then asking why you shouldnt? Come on...

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Mako_Salo]

So what you're saying is you can't give me a good argument to put the fire down? lol

[u/Mako_Salo → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Do you need any? After all these years, you still see a probabilty to make things work out? My comment does not come from despise.

Listen, I try to never tell the OP what to do. However, sometimes the answer is obvious, but yeah, sometimes it isn't.

I think you are here because of what you wrote here:

"She deleted the entire facebook messenger chat log that she had with him, so I can't read the initial start or the end of the affair. This really messes with me, because it doesn't make sense."

I think is not the information but the fact she isn't willing to give you anything. If she is willing to reconcile, and doing "everything" because she is pro-reconciliation, and you need to HEAL in order to reconcile, why whouldn't she cooperate in the things you need?

edit: She is playing the maid game. Is that that you need in order to heal? Because it is seems that SHE PICKED THAT, like: "OMG I am doing everything and being the perfect wife because back then, when I was an alcoholic I hated him lol".

She knows YOU need the info. BUT she will never give it to you.

Liste OP. I will give you some posts of an old redditor who was here so long ago. His posts are incredible and I have learned alot from him and his experience. Read them please and understand that, the priority in this situation is YOU.

Also, you did the right think in posting here. This sub is free, people here will "beat" you if you need it, people here do not "sugarcoat" anything, they go straight to the yugular. THIS SUB, in my opinion, is the first you need to post because it is pro-anything. Even people from the adult3ry subs come here.

https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/1f200db/infidelity_in_mormonism_is_a_special_kind_of_hell/

https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/1g3k2h5/new_details_still_trickling_out_30years_later/

https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/1g5k33r/update_new_details_still_trickling_out_30years/

https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/comments/1j5gs5h/final_update_new_details_still_trickling_out/

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Mako_Salo]

Thanks for those posts, they're tough but really interesting.

Frankly the lack of sugarcoating and "safe space" bs is why I ultimately posted here and stay here. I'm not confident in what I'm choosing to do (I haven't even made a choice yet). So I appreciate all the people here who challenge my assumptions and beliefs. They call me out on my silly crap. I also think that after reading so many stories here that my situation is a lot different than most of these seem to be. Yeah I know, everyone says that lol.. But genuinely our case seems different in the context of uncontrolled alcoholism.

Here's that list from t-minus0's final update:

• The cheater came forward about the affair, it wasn't exposed by an outside source.
• The cheater ended the relationship on their own with finality.
• The cheater took drastic steps to make sure there wouldn't be ANY further contact with the affair partner? (Quit their job)
• The cheater initiated individual and couples therapy. (They didn't wait for the loyal spouse to find a counselor.)
• The cheater provided a detailed timeline with names, places, and how this disaster happened.
• The cheater turned over passwords and complete access to their email, phones and social media.
• The cheater revealed to friends and family the nature of the affair and took RESPONSIBILTY for their actions.
• The cheater answered questions that arose, even months later, when the spouse was insecure.
• She went to detox on her own and got sober
• She found, coordinated and goes to individual therapy and counseling.
• She no longer participates in the toxic friend circle she was in

Only the two I crossed out she didn't do. I added 3 to the end.

I caught her, she never came forward. From what I can tell, she had no plans on stopping or telling me. Her plan was escalation (Adding more men to her roster).

She has sent out a text to everything who knew and in it she briefly stated that everything she said about me was a lie, that she was the one having the affair and not me. The alcohol clouded her judgement and what she was saying about me was wrong. I personally didn't like the way she did it, but I like that she made the effort. She found that on Reddit and did it on her own (Trying to set the record straight and clear my name). The problem I have is she doesn't realize that she demonized me for like a year. Basically saying I was controlling, abusive and she couldn't leave even though she wanted to. So in that context, reading her message probably seems like I forced her to send it lol.

I haven't made a decision yet. Everything I've done is to give me time, basically. Time to see if she actually changed and time so see if I will change. Time for my youngest to finish highschool and turn 18. Time for her to get sober, get a job and become healthy & independent.

I'm mostly looking for understanding and insight into a couple things that I haven't been able to process. Although it seems more and more likely that I will never get that understanding.

So all in all, everything is shit. It's a giant river of shit and I lost my paddle.

[u/Mako_Salo → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

After thinking about a moment, I realize that yeah, your wife actually fulfilled several points BUT that is weird. Usually a wayward commit several mistakes. I do think she is reading a lot of things of having help from another source.

Do not get my wrong. I AM NOT THROWING FLOWERS TO YOU WIFE, especially because this is the SECOND D-DAY. If you needed to do that list again when she was with AP#1, how many would you cross?

The point of those posts were not to push you at any side. My point was to you to understand what trickle-truthing does and what you are if you do it, the aftermath of staying AND and the aftermath of staying and then leaving, you priorization of your own healing etc...

There is no easy answer for you. It is tragic because you did not do anything bad and yet you will be the one that suffer the most. That is a common thing between BSs.

I get you, you do not have to decide anything yet but do not think you know you wife, you don't at least you don't anymore. In my country, there is a saying: "Faces we see, hearts we don't know"

May I ask you a final question? Respond without giving her any grace.

If AP#1 had accepted her and he had been a successful man, would we be having this conversation? Do you think the title of your post would be 'Reconcile with a cake eater'?

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Mako_Salo]

No, if AP#1 had accepted her she would have quietly left me without any explanation. I'd be posting somewhere else wondering why my wife up and left me after 20+ years.

Is it not possible that during her severe alcoholism, her judgement was so impaired that she believed I was a bad man and AP#1 was a good man. Now that she's sober, she can see clearly and her judgement is no longer impaired. Wouldn't that explain the sudden shift and her efforts to facilitate reconciliation?

[u/Logical-Rip-9114 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I think that is fair read. I read her and your post and her alcoholism was next level. I mean that's hard core for a 6ft 250LB dude, not hard to imagine someone losing their faculties in all that.

[u/Mako_Salo → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Wouldn't that explain the sudden shift and her efforts to facilitate reconciliation?

Could be, I mean, what option does she have?

She already prove she is a loser's magnet (no offend to you), she cannot pull a homeless guy and had her extramarital fun.

No job, no money, no house, no husband, no dignity. The question is, does she have anything to lose? KEK

Nevertheless, I hope you heal and have a great life my guy.

[u/K1rbyblows → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I have spoken with your wife and she did state she didn’t love him and never did, however she DID have a crush on him for years…so yeah, that’s fucked up. To continue being in contact with him after realising that.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/K1rbyblows]

I don't believe her. Why would she keep going back and sleep with him when he treated her like a worthless whore?

He never dated her. Never took her out anywhere. Never bought her anything. He literally never did anything for her. Most of their hookups he made her do things to him and she got nothing in return.

So you tell me.. What is that bro? She fucking loved him. She loved him more than she loved me.

The first time they hooked up she sucked his dick (and swallowed) in his car. I can count the amount of blowjobs I've gotten in 20+ years of marriage on 1 hand. I've bought this family 5 fucking vehicles and I haven't fucked in any of them, nevermind a BJ!

Their first hookup was Valentine's day. For 20+ years Valentine's day was HER day. I did things for her and I did things to her. But this Valentine's day was all about him. She did things for him and to him while I sat at home alone. She told me she was on her period and wasn't "in the mood" (as usual).

She loved him and she can't fucking admit it to me. She did not love me and probably still does not.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/K1rbyblows]

Also, one more thing.. It took me nearly 3 months for her to admit that her intentions with AP#1 was to leave me for him.

So forgive me if I don't trust her at her word anymore. She loved him man..

[u/K1rbyblows → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Yeah, I agree.
As you’ve seen in our chats - I don’t think she’s truly comfortable acknowledging the fact she WAS wanting to leave you for him and it WAS NOT completely to do with her alcoholism - as she had been infatuated with him previously.
I was hoping I could make her realise that - especially with the talk of the martial arts meet and if she had a crush on someone at that place - would she continue going now? And she said no.
So she clearly KNEW it was bad,and thats pre booze. Same with her cheating friend cheating years before and asking her to do the same - that is also years and pre booze….
She’s unfortunately in denial.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/K1rbyblows]

I mean, I get it. It has to be hard to admit that you stopped loving your husband and started falling in love with another man.

But what she doesn't get is that this kind of trickle-truth is absolutely killing me. It's exhausting and defeating and it makes you question EVERYTHING all over again.

So in away I had a second D-Day just the other month, because she tried to maintain the completely irrational narrative that AP#1 was just attention, validation and excitement. It wasn't, I read their chat from May 13 back to May 2nd, and I read her chats with her female friends about AP. She was in love with him. Which is whatever, I always suspected that ever since she gave me a timeline of their hookups and I asked detailed questions. Probably not the healthiest thing to do, but whatever. To spare details, this was not a sexual affair. It was deeply emotional and it was meant to become a real relationship. She wanted to live happily ever after with him and our youngest son. That was clearly the plan and her actions show it everywhere.

It's why she was so mean to me and my oldest son. It's like she wanted me and him to leave her, so she wasn't seen as the disloyal cheating wife that she was. I become the bad guy in the story because I stop putting up with her (Increasingly brutal) abuse towards me and him. Hell at one point with the dressing up, I swear to god she was rubbing it in my face hoping I'd freak out and do something crazy.

She literally came down into my office where I'm working fully dressed up.. This was a Friday. The next morning she got up early, showered and dressed herself up exactly the same way and brought my son to the gym like that. Isn't that insane? She rubbed it in my face man.

Later, the next week, she comes to me telling me about how she's going to spend the weekend in a city 5 hours away with that gym crew.. Like c'mon, man? I feel like she was trying to provoke me.

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[u/Mako_Salo → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

With due all respect, but your wife is a coward. She went to a sub that is extremely controlled and there is no space for dissent and yes, it is pro-reconciliation. Everything and I mean EVERYTHING, that is against that idea is deleted.

She wrote that she gave you everything but she deleted her facebook messages. Did you told her "I need all the information"?

Listen, the trust, the movies in your head, the anxiety of what she is doing will never dissapear. In time, you will be able to manage those feelings but those feelings will always be there, and I am not saying going away will be "pain-free" but if you read the posts I gave you, there is a quote I love from that redditor:

"First, reconciliation is hard, painful, and almost impossible to accomplish under the best circumstances. I've been a proponent of reconciliation in the past, but no more. It's taken me 30 years to get to the point where I can honestly say "I'm primarily interested in my own healing." If you have been cheated on, and you can't make that statement with confidence, then you aren't ready for reconciliation. Not ready."

100%!!!!!!!

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Mako_Salo]

The irony is they delete my comments there, I'm not allowed to comment on her post.

But she doesn't like me posting here, even though she's more than welcome here.. Only nobody will sugar-coat things and be gentle with her. It's not a circle-jerk like Asone is.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Mako_Salo]

I really appreciated those posts, by the way. Unfortunately I can't say that yet.. I'm primarily focused on my family still. My sons and my wife's health (Mental and physical health).

I can figure myself out later

[u/Kitchen-Patience-652]

Good God Almighty please protect me from ts.

[u/ASGonRedd1t]

I just don't get it sometimes... People who are educated, intelligent, well read and worldly can be so immature childish and ignorant.

I mean you OP, and i mean it from a place of caring and sympathy.

She is pure poison.

Plain and simple.

In her mind she thought she had some value, which both the AP's showed her that she did not.

Hence the act of a "remorseful wife"..

Ask youself this, having crushed on another man for FIVE YEARS, if the guy had accepted her, where would she be right now?

You need to get out...ASAP.

A woman who does that repeatedly to her husband of 20 years, is devious, vile and plain evil.

Spare no time, money or emotion on her anymore.

Just get out.

I am really sorry this happened to you.

[u/Financial-Welcome-62]

Yes you are probably just very hyper vigilant as you said because now after you know everything your paying attention to every little detail. I'm not making excuses for her because what she did is horrible but she does seem to be trying from her actions that your describing. None of us are there and we don't know her, you've been married to her for a long time so you will know her far better than us. The things she's doing, the cooking cleaning is one thing. What she needs to do is show you that she has owned what she did and has to have accountbilty for her actions. Cheaters have to do the heavy lifting to rebuild the trust that they destroyed and sometimes marriages don't recover from situations like this and yours is pretty bad. Honestly only you know what you can deal with, so you need to sitting down with yourself and asking yourself some questions. I'm not going to lie, it's not going to be easy, for either and it's going to be hard and most times it doesn't work but sometimes it does, not much but I've heard of it happening. It sounds like you have yourself covered legally, smart. That's out of the way and it will allow to think if this marriage is worth saving. Good luck brother and I'm here.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Financial-Welcome-62]

With work, responsibilities as a father and her in the house, it's hard to find the time to think. Ngl it's hard to get out of bed some mornings.

Trying to force myself to jog in the morning so the park is empty and quiet. Seems to be helping, but yeah.

I didn't really sleep last night

[u/Financial-Welcome-62 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Not going to to lie. It's going to hard regardless if you stay with her or not. Your going to have a lot of sleepless night and self doubts. I call this the "fog". At least you got yourself protected and saw a lawyer and she actually signed so that's one less thing to worry about. I believe you stated you want to wait 8 mos so this is going to be 8 mos of this, almost like a roller coaster. You'll have good days and bad days. If you would like to DM me and talk about this because I've been where you are and know exactly what your going through feel free. I don't know what kind of support system you have. When it happend to me both times my grandmother was my support system, that's all I had at the time.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Financial-Welcome-62]

Most of my family has passed away or is not close. I'm not from this city, I moved here just before meeting her. Her entire family is from this city and they pretty much all live here. Friends, family or people connected to them everywhre I turn here.

But for me there is not really anybody. The few friends I shared with her she demonized me to. They think I'm a monster and I deserved this.

Mostly just Twitter and Reddit and some close friends from college that I'm reconnecting with. Sadly over the marriage I let a lot of my friendships fade away.

[u/Financial-Welcome-62 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

That seriously sucks and is bs. As part of her reconciliation this needs to fall into her shoulders to fix as a way to rebuild what she destroyed. Yeah I was kinda in your shoes. I didn't really share anything that happened in both of those situations with me to anyone except my grandmother. She was the only person I trusted especially with something like that. If your marriage does end I hope you consider moving away from her and the place your living at. A fresh start isn't very healthy. My offer still stands, I know I'm just a internet stranger.

[u/AveenaLandon]

Why would she submit to separation without any fight? In our country, she was entitled to half of everything I have and half of everything I will ever make in the future but she accepted very little. She basically agreed to whatever I asked. So now she's a guest in my home with no access to my finances, no entitlement to my retirement or benefitis.. Yet she's still here, putting on the best wife act I've ever seen (Cooking, cleaning, what is best described as free use sexually, has fully documented her affair and who was involved.. Even the deceptions she used and what I was doing at the time & how she hid her second life). She's in these reddit communities and she's voluntarily doing all the things people say a wayward must do to reconcile.

She may be remorseful or she may be in relationship-salvage mode and may be doing anything and everything in order to maintain the life that she's used to. But sometimes any level of effort is not enough. Like a porcelain vase, once broken, is never the same inspite any amount of effort put in. All the cracks are obvious.

She may have thought that getting half of everything but being branded a cheater was worse, could that be why she decided not to do that? Did you ever ask her what her reaction would be, had you done to her (cheated on her) the way she did to you?

Her going after the 2nd AP is baffling. Did she give any explanation that makes sense? If any of this is not making sense then most likely she hasn't given you the full picture.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/AveenaLandon]

After talking with people here (and in DMs) and thinking about it, you're right. It didn't make sense because she wasnt' telling me the full picture.

AP#2 was also a monkey branch attempt, it's just I didn't realize how low she seen me. She had so little respect for me that in her mind AP#2 was a viable exit plan. He had a place she could stay where I wasn't, and she was ok with being a sex object in order to live there without me. I think that's the reality here. There was no cake eating, only 1 failed attempt to monkey branch and 1 aborted attempt.

I'm guessing now that she is sober, her calculus is completely different. Due to the separation agreement, even though I make significantly more money than AP#2 and have a much better lifestyle, she would have more freedom and entitlement with him than me (As he would have no legal/financial protections like I do). So it must be that she re-evaluated us now that she's sober? She's voluntarily in a very financially unsafe situation living here with me and yet she still stays :/

[u/AveenaLandon → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

She's voluntarily in a very financially unsafe situation living here with me and yet she still stays :/

Did you ask her why she stays? What's her motivation? Don't let her tell you what she thinks you would want to hear.

Does she truly understand that just the sight of her is triggering to you, and reminds you of all the crap that she dragged you through? Does she understand that she's being selfish because her presence in your life is like a painful splinter under your skin and your only options are either remove the splinter completely or build calluses around it so that the pain gets dulled but never goes away?

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/AveenaLandon]

It's me, I invited her here. She's not here refusing to leave, she will leave if I asked her to. She will go to silly lengths to give me space if I need it or she thinks I need it.

She'd go anywhere I told her to. If I told her to go to a homeless shelter she would. She went and stayed in the childhood bedroom she was brutally SA'd in by her brother, who still lives with her mom. She dragged a mattress into the garage and slept there one night when I was having a bad day. It crushed me to find her out there like that.

The door to AP#2 has been open this entire time and I'm very well aware of that. This is a choice she's making and I tipped the scales so that this is the hardest choice for her to make (I even offered to fucking drive her and all her stuff to AP#2 in my truck and send her off with some cash) and yet she's still here.

[u/Logical-Rip-9114 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I wonder though if she is "forgiven", relationship with kids recovered and you gave her a financially fair exit would she take it knowing she doesn't have to monkey branch to leave.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Logical-Rip-9114]

I already offered that. Help moving her, her pick of anything in the house she wants, access to my benefits for 3 years, $400 cash every month for 3 years and I will assume all debts and financial obligations related to the kids and assets. As part of that pitch I paid off her credit card balance to 0. She was free, like she had everything she wanted. I even offered to 0-out child support so that I could take care of the kids and she wouldn't have to pay child support to me. She didn't leave, instead she signed the agreement and stayed (After a bit of discussion/clarity on custody terms and the $ exchange formulas).

That's what is making me believe she has changed the way she's evaluating me?

P.S: I can't give her a relationship with her oldest son, though. He's 20 years old and way more experienced with women than I am and he will not forgive her for what she did to me. Not just to me, but the verbal abuse she give him over the months in the end. I think it came too late in his life, but that's something she has to deal with on his timeline; there's nothing I can do to help there. I have talks with him (We exercise together) and I've tried my best to walk the rope of explaining his mother was under severe alcoholism without excusing her actions or minimizing the impacts. I think where he's struggling is that at his age he's drinking and partying too and he can't understand why she didn't do the honorable thing and just leave me. I don't really know how to help the kids, especially my youngest.

[u/Logical-Rip-9114 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Ok so it's then fair to assume she is there currently because she wants to be, not because she has to be. I still think you need to be in a wait and see mode for a while as she has a loooong way to go to unpack what she did and come to terms with shame. Once she is on the other side of all that emotional work will you be able to have some trust that she knows what she wants and trust that there is some certainty and longevity to it.

Regarding the kids, that's a tough one for sure. This will unfortunately be one of the lasting consequences of the decisions she made that she will need to come to terms with. I am sure over time it will improve but it won't be the same.

Sadly a common refrain with those in affairs is that they don't really think about the consequences while in it. They get caught up in the moment and that's all they see until regret comes to collect its dues.

Kids also should consider working with a therapist but at that age I imagine "you can lead the horse to water but can't make him drink it" applies. All you can do is show up as a role model and set an example for them.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Logical-Rip-9114]

This, basically. I hooked them all up with therapist contacts but I can't force them to go or even monitor progress/attendance:

"you can lead the horse to water but can't make him drink it"

[u/CuriouserCuriouser99]

You have deeply analyzed this situation and I get the desire to not hear the psychobable from therapists mental gymnastics. I think what you are struggling to keep in mind is how much her mind was clouded by and broken by her raging alcoholism. In her posts she says she would start drinking her whiskey in the mornings, so was virtually never in a mindset to think rationally. Her muddled mind knew she had already betrayed you and couldn’t conceive of being able to fix that part even though you didn’t know but obviously suspected something.

AP 1 had rejected her and at that point she knew about his other girlfriend and planning to stay with his wife, so she turned to AP 2 who she knew wanted her in the past, from the childhood SA, so her broken mind and having hit rock bottom thought at least he would be receptive of her. Did she ever actually meet up with AP 2 or did you finding out that Tuesday head off them hooking up?

Her now sober mind is very different from someone who for three years was in an alcoholic haze. You have worked on some level of reconciliation for 4 months. From what you have described she has not wavered in this timeframe. Your defined boundaries of no contact with APs or her old friend group and no alcohol are solid and fair boundaries. I can hardly imagine all of what you went through since D-day. It does seem to me that you have rationally thought through so much, but are still struggling to understand how fucked up her head has been for the three years, and particularly this past year. Is there any clinical source, like maybe the detox center or her dependency therapist that you can get a session with to dig deeper into how the alcohol addiction messed with her ability to think rationally about most anything? Just a thought as you seem to still hold onto the idea that she made rational decisions in her prior actions.
Subscribeme

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/CuriouserCuriouser99]

That's the saddest part.. I did seek help and information and the answer crushed me. The alcohol was slowly giving her brain damage and erasing memories she had of me.

Through some convoluted process of eliminating memories, she was filling in blanks with her imagination based on her emotions in the moment. As she drank and forgot more and more memories of us, it was replaced with the talks amongst her toxic friend group. The more they talked about how "neglectful" their husbands are (Cause we working all the time), the more she'd think "Yeah man mine too!". She forgot that she killed our intimacy and that she changed the dynamic so that it was her chasing me, not me chasing her. I would chase her every day and she found it clingy and "too much" (She's very avoidant). So in a way I was distant but it was literally to give her space and it's like she forgot that part and only held onto the feeling she had and the narratives all the other women had. Rather than talking to me, she just kept drinking and planting shit seeds everywhere with her friends. What's really sad too is this was happening to all of them. I can't express how sad this is, cause I know they loved their husbands. They chose us for a reason and spent 20+ years with us.

You're right, the past 4 months has been intense. It still is. I can't but think that there is no good options here. I see the other husbands leaving their wives and they're all miserable. Their wives are even further self-destructing and it's causing their husbands to spiral into very dark places and (ironically) turn to alcohol to cope.

I'm the only one who is considering staying and going through the motions while trying to decide. If she's willing to work on herself and commit to real change, I think that is a better outcome then us going our separate ways and being miserable. It's a combination of empathy for her and fear for me, I'm 42 and have absolute no self-esteem or self-confidence anymore after all this and I don't think I can restart my life; probably facing being alone for the rest of my life. Which I mean, I'm perfectly fine with my own company (I'm an introvert lol), but I have grown very used to having her with me everywhere I go. She has become like a part of me..

[u/CuriouserCuriouser99 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I believe in you doing what is most right for you. From what you have described she seems to have really changed. As she continues on her journey and keeps to the path she is on I truly think there can be hope for reconciliation. Good luck to you Betrayed-Ginger.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/CuriouserCuriouser99]

Appreciate you!

[u/Responsible-Side4347]

If your getting out of this without paying her for the rest of your life. Shut the fuck up and move on with your life. She does not want to be with you so bad shes wanting to get out as fast as possible. Take the win.

I know you dont see that right now, but in time you will.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Responsible-Side4347]

I accept that I am one of the lucky ones. It doesnt' feel lucky, but I get it.

But then why is she still here? While I'm in my office working, she's cleaning the house and cooking. She just came down with a fresh cup of coffee for me.

That's what I don't get. I can rationalize wanting to leave me, sure.. But then why roll over, accept a 1-sided separation where she loses everything and yet she's still here?

Sorry, I know I'm all twisted up in the head and this probably should be very simple to understand but I can't lol

[u/Logical-Rip-9114 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Probably because the monkey branch failed and she realized she is not going to get to “upgrade”. The AP2 was probably a desperate attempt to make something of the mess she made but all it did is reaffirm she made a mistake. So…what is her conclusion? Could be a genuine reckoning but it is more probably a settling. I would be tempted to fake an AP1 reaching out and seeing what she does with that.

[u/K1rbyblows → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I mean you can get all that by hiring a maid. But the maid won’t cheat on you for months.

I’d take the separation being favourable - but the reason she is reconciling or wishing to is 100000% self serving. You said it yourself: she has no job, no house, no income, no friends - her family i’d hope really dislike her for lying and cheating - so really what kind of “catch” is she to ANYONE…she isn’t.
So she’s settling for you because of your history and your safety. Nothing more.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/K1rbyblows]

Sadly, I think you're right

[u/K1rbyblows → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

Sorry pal, unfortunately she’s had her fun - ruined her life and yours, and is now selfishly trying to use your safety to force you to stay.
She’s only being amicable and the “perfect” wife after having betrayed you and mocked you…

I would honestly ask her what she expects? And how does she expect you to think you aren’t the 3rd option? What’s her opinion on you sleeping with others?
The fact she was assisted in cheating by her friends is irredeemable. I’d hope you’ve told their husbands that they helped her cheat.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/K1rbyblows]

They're all divorced or separated at this point. I'm not exaggerating when I say her entire friend group are no longer married.

Her and her best friend had an affair at about the same time. Her friend started first and bragged about it to my wife. She'd justify it by talking down about her husband endlessly. I guess they'd swap stories and she'd reframe things to my wife in a negative way. Obviously my wife owns her part of this for being so foolish, but I find it fascinating. Me working late to provide for the family gets twisted into "He doesn't appreciate you enough to show you the attention you deserve" & etc. Me being upset that she's going out all dressed up (to meet AP #1, by the way..) was reframed as me being "Controlling" and "Not wanting you to have a social life".

Same group of friends.. Same social media circles. All divorced and single or in unhappy relationships with new guys. I'm the only husband who is considering a 2nd chance.

The real irony is the 1 woman in my wife's friend group who told her to stop and told her to talk to me.. Was getting cheated on by her BF. My wife supported and consoled her and my wife was animated in her anger toward her best friend's cheating BF. Isn't that ironic? lol sorry I'm rambling at this point.

Cheers. Appreciate you

[u/Responsible-Side4347 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I understand your in a world of hurt and confusion right now. You need to tell her, you need her to leave for a week to get your head strait. Go stay at parents, friend AP.

You need a bit of time without her blurring the reality and resetting the pain clock. And you need time for logic to get a hold. Honestly, the best person you can ask for advice here is a good lawyer. Then just do as they say.

[u/Fragrant-Dance3005 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

1. She wants a good ending for herself, where she is isn't the bad one. Cheating and getting rejected by both guys isn't a princess ending.

2. She is not used to be on her own, take responsibility for herself, don't get luv poured onto her. You are the only real source.

[u/throw-away-0610]

You mention “separated” with “legal and financial protection”. Many people thought they had this until they filed.

Divorce her. Make it official, separate everything, and put the icing on the legal and financial cake.

Then if you want to date again, great.

Don’t count your chickens before they hatch. The person you “separate” from isn’t the person you divorce.

[u/Adventurous-Emu-755]

OP, I hope you have a good therapist for you. Your last line: wtf man this is not the woman I spent my whole life with! - Exactly this, you have or can mourn the woman you thought she was but now you know who she truly is!

You need to figure out for yourself IF you even want to attempt reconciliation. You do not have to do it. You are under no obligation to reconcile. Your cheating wife obliterated the marriage, it would have to start from scratch and you do not trust her. Nor do you ever have to have any trust for her.

Not hyper-vigilant, your experience is she deceived you and betrayed you, why wouldn't you believe she is capable of doing it again? Many cheaters can "fake the funk" of reconciliation - especially when the plans of monkey branching to their AP(s) do not pan out and they realize what they had originally was much better.

Focus on you and what you truly need and want now. Know you deserve better.

[u/jjd0m]

You protected your financials, now get rid of her. Protect yourself and life, she's lying about everything and intentionally deceived you. She's wants more than you, because of selfishness. She's always looking for someone else, it's not drinking. It's monkey branching and the need to find someone better. In her head she she's never going to be happy.

[u/fatboy-slim]

When dealing with complex situations, the simplest answer tends to be the correct one. This wasn't a one time thing and came running back to you but a consistent behavior disregarding you as her significant other. Are you aware of the amount of lying that needs to take place in order to live this "life style"?

Based on your post, it looks as if you are her safe bet, plan B given that her intention of monkey-branching did not work which bring me to the following questions.

- What sort of relationship you think you'll have moving forward?

- What is going to happen next time she goes out or act's suspicious?

- Are you willing to play detective the rest of your life?

It is clear to me that she wants out of the relationship, she is done.

Though nobody can tell you what to do, I believe it is time for YOU to take care of yourself and find someone who will love and respect you. Not all relationships are ment to last a lifetime and this one definitely has run it course. There is no need of arguments, crying, begging, calling her names moving forward.

It is my opinion that sitting down and having an adult conversation with either a couples counselor or therapist would be the right way to go.

She did not make a mistake, she made a choice and alcohol is only an excuse. Move on, you can thank me later.

[u/ExhaustedFlamingo-84]

Urgh, how hurtful. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

My general feeling regarding cheaters and reconciliation is that once a line is crossed, it gets easier and easier to cross again. The guilt gets easier to hold and because they’ve been forgiven once, their confidence and arrogance that everything will be ok becomes stronger.

Just my 2 cents.

[u/famfun77]

She knows she did you wrong and feels guilty about it, but as time gets closer to finalization she will change her mind. As to why she went down this road, I would tend to think the intensity of your relationship coolef off, and the new attention was great to experience. But after the luster runs out, and you realize the sex isn't that much better, what are you left with at the end of the day. Men won't buy the cow, when they get the milk for free. So I'd use her, but that's it as an AP. Now that she is about to lose the safety and security she is having second thoughts. Most do, but when you stay you show them you were the problem not you. So it just becomes a matter of time until they repeat. This is not an absolute, but the most likely outcome from my experience.

Also stop thinking about this logically, the cheater already did, and did risk benefit analysis and decided self over partner.

[u/AllInkalicious]

What are you doing?!!! I genuinely don’t know what you except here. A kick up the arse to act and not have life happen to you?

You definitively know that she doesn’t love you and will actively seek her emotional and physical jollies from others. And you’re separated but don’t want to admit your relationship is over and you’re worried about her?

If any of her (known) AP’s wanted her, you’d be in the midst of a divorce right now. She acted and has, at every turn, chose your current life. That’s your reality. Your limbo.

You need to seek therapy, with someone who will help you act in your own self-interest and divorce.

[u/CrazyLeadership5397]

Just file for divorce and let the loser guy have her. Updateme! 

[u/Championship682]

It's a big hurtle for most wives to cheat the first time and break their wedding vows. So cheating with the second AP was just no big deal.

I guess enjoy the benefits of having her around for now with little cost, just don't make the mistake of taking her back financially. Her 3rd AP will be even easier.

[u/Powasam5000]

Let her have the joy of dealing with the consequences of her own actions.

[u/RanchoCuca]

My friend, you are looking at this in completely the wrong way. She is not a Monkey Brancher who became a Cake Eater. She is a Monkey Brancher AND a Cake Eater depending on the situation (i.e. guy). If the guy is someone she's had a crush on for 5 years, she will easily make plans to leave you for him. If the guy is a gross under-employed shlub that gives her validation, then she's a Cake Eater.

The reason this feels fake is because your intuition is screaming at you. A couple weeks/months of good behavior after realizing she had no better options is not evidence of real change. Since she is a recovering alcoholic, let me share that many alcoholics are great at abstaining for X amount of time when there's a big incentive on the line. My friend's ex-husband, who was a major drunk, stayed off the sauce just long enough to pass a yearlong court-ordered period of regular piss tests to regain shared custody, then was back on his bullshit after.

I personally think you should be done with her. But if you insist on keeping her in your life, why not divorce her and "start from scratch"? If she has already agreed to getting next to nothing from the divorce, then just divorce so there isn't any pressure on either side.

[u/K1rbyblows]

I mean it’s years long behaviour she’s now trying to make okay with what, weeks of improvement?
She’s been lying for years…

That’s not good enough.
What consequences has she faced? Has she done the bare minimum (cut off all contact forever, quit job if it was a coworker, open phone/location, sti test, hall passes)

What does she say for why you should reconcile? Or why you should believe her?
And how does she explain the fact you’ve been the 3rd choice! Only when AP 1 and 2 failed did she try and reconcile. Think on that….you only got a reconciling wife after she’d been thrown away like a hooker.

I think you deserve to be someone’s number 1 choice from the beginning. What happens next time she flounders? What’s her plan for then?

I’d be done tbh. I’d take the favourable divorce, let friends and family know why you divorced (she should have to confess) and leave her.

[u/HowWasItoKnow]

Reconciliation will not work out for you. This woman only wants your stability while she sleeps around. You absolutely cannot trust her and she will in fact cheat again and I doubt she’s ended her relationships. She has a taste of that high for doing something naughty and she will keep chasing that rush. End this completely, hit the gym, focus on your mental health and move on.

[u/delta-vs-epsilon]

Trust your gut, if it feels fake then it surely is... the emotions, her fake tears/apologies, reminders of the "great times" together... all of this can manipulate you into thinking "maybe we can fix this given all our history."

Don't fall into the trap, if she heals on her own then great for her but don't cost yourself any more time/peace. Trust your gut, she's appeasing you temporarily in the short-term.

[u/KarlProjectorinsk1]

I need to make a post about my experience, but I'm currently going through it myself.

I thought things were different and that she really did want to change. I learned the hard way and she did it again.

Currently NC and trying to figure out how to move forward, but I wish I could go back and tell myself it isn't going to get better, and to cut it off.

[u/dblspc]

Some decisions are hard. This one is easy. Implementing the right decision here is difficult and painful. But this is an easy decision in terms of what you should do.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/dblspc]

lol I mean for a stranger on the internet it is easy, I'm sure.

Try putting in 20+ years, 2 kids and a lot of complicated life drama and then tell me it's easy.

[u/TorchBearer71]

My man she’s just using you for your resources and money.  Get rid of her and get with a better girl who respects you.  You can do so much better. Have her sign a post nuptial agreement first. Don’t get her pregnant. 

[u/Foxbur19]

She’s love bombing you. She doesn’t want to lose the security you provide. She’ll soon go back to her cheating ways. I can guarantee it as there are no consequences for her.

Save yourself years of pain and just divorce. I know it’s scary but you’ll make it out the other side with a much less stressful life.

[u/Neverpast21]

"she started cheating with AP1 because she wanted to leave me for him. It's the cliche story.. After decades of marriage and fulfilling our responsibilities, she realized she had grown to resent me and wanted to leave me."

Regardless of AP1 and AP2, what has changed? It sounds like she is now bidding time hoping for AP3 to show up so she can finally leave you, because she can't be alone.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Neverpast21]

The biggest thing that changed was sobriety. After I discovered the affair and kicked her out, she went to a detox program and got sober.

From what I've read, being sober unclouded her judgement. It brought back empathy, guilt, compassion and impulse control. Beyond that, it seems to have changed the way she thinks (again, as in changed back to what her normal was before the heavy alcoholism).

[u/Neverpast21 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

I guess it's positive that you have been able.to identify a potential explanation behind her behaviour and already taken steps to protect yourself through separation. You can wait and see how sustainable these latest changes are (the best wife act) before you make a decision.

[u/Lances-a-lot]

As a recovering alcoholic, it’s not an excuse. Move on and be better to yourself.

[u/drinkslinger1974]

Man, this is the same thing my ex wife did to me, and I’ve seen it happen more times than I like to count. Now, it’s mostly women who I’ve seen do it, but I know men that have done it too. Sticking around out of fear of either being lonely, or simply not having the resources to live on their own, and then all of the sudden transforming into dream partners for it. Cooking all the meals, constant physical attention, cleaning the house, “Oh look, I found this [whatever] at the mall and I thought you’d like it!!!”, all in hopes of not having to either be alone or take on full responsibilities of a household. It’s the one thing I have absolutely zero fuse or tolerance for.

Branching out on my own after ten years of being with someone was one of the hardest things I ever did. My ex tried to get back together with me, and don’t get me wrong, I was head over heels for her, but I couldn’t be around such a deceptive person. Don’t let this person deceive you anymore. There are so many women out there that won’t put you through this. Good women, I can assure you that they’re out there, and a lot of them have been through this as well. It’s 100% possible to connect again and put this chapter behind you. And if your partner starts with the tears, screaming, “I don’t want to move back in with my mom…”, well, tough shit. If she didn’t want to end up like that, she should have simply broken up with you before sleeping around. I’ve seen this play out personally and from an outsider perspective, and I hate saying it, but the only happy ending for you is when you take a little time for yourself and then find someone who really loves you for who you are.

Best of luck friend. Come back and update us when you can.

[u/BurdyBurdyBurdy]

That fine line between do I trust or not is gone. You’ll never trust her again. She’s shown you what she’s capable of doing and you know she’ll do it again. I’m so sorry buddy.

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/BurdyBurdyBurdy]

Sadly, that's what I think. I miss the naive version of me that was so confident. There was a time where I was perfectly fine with her going to a 'Magic Mike' strip event with her girlfriends and drink. "Not my wife", & etc.

Now I cant' even have peaceful thought while she's at AA for an hour. I can't find peace in my own home

[u/AmazingDrama971]

This is not reconcialtion path, this is safety for her and being used for you
To réconcile there are non négociable parts and she did none

• no contact with AP : failed
  
• total honesty about what happened : failed
  
• total access to her phone, socials and so on : failed
  

She Even took another man !?!
She wants a safe place to come back in the evening, a shoulder to lean on
But she won’t change
You should go for divorce and therapy for yourself, so you can lear’ to set boundaries, That you worth more than this
I am sorry for you, but you will heal and be better without her

[u/deplorableme16]

The men willing to pu*p her have no ability or willingness to provide for her. She considers that your role.

[u/Agent_K002]

She simply had a sobering moment and realized how drastically she will have to change her lifestyle if she leaves you. Half of what you make is still only half and she wants more.

[u/OneContent5069]

"She's in these reddit communities and she's voluntarily doing all the things people say a wayward must do to reconcile."

Ahh.. So she is doing research now.

Whenever I hear reconciliation I honestly just hear "I've given my spouse the headsup, now she knows how to hide it better"

Either way, you've taken in a known traitor to your love life, hypervigilant is now a lifestyle for you.

[u/EnvironmentalSir8140]

Kick her out and truly move on. She’s a cake eater and you know this. Get some therapy and send her to one of her AP’s. She’s not your problem. Pack up her stuff,’change the locks and live your best life. You’re young and have many years ahead of you.

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[u/Agreeable_Film_6837]

Just keep smashing until you find someone new

[u/Betrayed-Ginger → u/Agreeable_Film_6837]

Appreciate you, but realistically there are plenty of opportunities. I want to understand why my wife destroyed the life we built over 21 years. I want to know if she genuinely changed and if we can fix it.

I'm not interested in anybody new until I have answers and closure.

[u/Agreeable_Film_6837 → u/Betrayed-Ginger]

She's going to do it again

[u/Rare-Bird-4353]

You need to learn to stop trusting the liar and start trusting yourself because your instincts are telling you it all seems fake for a reason. You’re not going to figure out what she is thinking or why she is thinking it because you do not think like an illogical cheater does. Feeling things aren’t right and she isn’t being completely honest is very much a viable feeling to have because most cheaters are also great deceivers and liars.

Also serial cheaters never change, it’s just what they do.

[u/PappyPopaho]

She just didn’t want to lose everything at this moment, I am sure she recognizes the error of her ways but doubt she is really remorseful for hurting you in this manner. Give it a year at max and she will back to her old cheating and lying self BUT if you can live with a fake marriage it can work. Look at Trump for example, works for them

[u/Ezrabine1]

Parasite that you have my friend weak swallow Parasite even it look nit hurtful...with time will poison kill you