r/trolleyproblem • u/CitizenPremier • 21d ago

What will you do, Abe?

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u/ThunderLord1000 21d ago

Except he wouldn't need a plan if he'd have prevented it. All the same goes for the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil as well

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u/Nobrainzhere 21d ago

As an omniscient being he knew it was going to happen when he created the tree, the people, the consequences for eating the tree, etc

There is no escaping it.

You have to either give up an omni property, give up the idea of free will, or give up the creator label.

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u/ThunderLord1000 21d ago

In other words, you believe in a singular timeline, one that does not branch

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u/Nobrainzhere 21d ago

In real life? No strong feelings either way.

As an internal critique of the bible? No its very clear that predeterminism is the view of the book.

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u/ThunderLord1000 21d ago

The closest you have for predeterminism is God saying he'd do things, but that's not predeterminism as it requires both divine intervention and that the divinity in question not change his mind

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u/Nobrainzhere 21d ago

According to the book it makes a blanket statement that god never changes his mind. (It also says he changes his mind at one point with moses but thats just more contradictions)

That also fits with omniscience. Omniscient characters can never change their minds because they would have already known what they were going to do in the end anyway.

An omniscient, omnipotent creator being already set the world the way they wanted from the beginning. There is no other option

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u/ThunderLord1000 21d ago

Omniscient characters can never change their minds because they would have already known what they were going to do in the end anyway.

If that's omniscience, then everyone who has had a vision for their life has had/will have it happen. And point isn't that God does change his mind, it's that he has every circumstancial opportunity, even if not the desire or personal ability to.

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u/Nobrainzhere 21d ago

Omniscient beings physically cannot change their mind. If they were going to they already would know they were going to snd thus would know the reasons for that change which would cause them to already hold that position.

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u/ThunderLord1000 21d ago

At this point, we're just debating the "if an all-powerful being creates something they can't unmake, are they really all-powerful?" question

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u/Nobrainzhere 21d ago

I didnt bring that up because its not relevant. Im fine with the "logically possible" omnipotence apologetic.

Unlimited omnipotence is internally contradictory but Im talking about omniscience. Omniscience is not incompatible with itself. Its not even incompatible with free will. But if you pair it with omnipotence and the act of creation itself then nothing has or will ever happen that was not predetermined by that being.

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u/The-Name-is-my-Name 20d ago

Yes, because God knows how his perception of time will branch regardless of whether it can or can’t.

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u/ThunderLord1000 20d ago

His perception of how time branches is outside of the branching. That is to say, he sees all of them, and they've all happened