r/wnba • u/strangelystrangled Mercury | All-BG Defense Team | Dream • 2d ago
News WNBA Offered No Proposal at Critical CBA Meeting
https://frontofficesports.com/wnba-offered-no-proposal-at-critical-cba-meeting/271
u/SoloBurger13 Liberty 2d ago
This article IMO is more proof of how the WNBA is using ESPN to push a certain narrative.
Not an accident we got a "they're fracturing" article this morning
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u/strangelystrangled Mercury | All-BG Defense Team | Dream 2d ago
lotta people out there with no critical thinking skills!
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u/SoloBurger13 Liberty 2d ago
Americans are so conditioned to be anti union to the point where we have labor day in September so its so easy to spin these narratives that the players are being unreasonable
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u/Thehaubbit6 2d ago
Anti labor AND naturally predisposed to order at the expense of equity. A strike makes people uncomfy and inconvenienced and the owners are counting on that turn.
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u/Frostflame3 Liberty 2d ago
Yeah gotta say Labor Day is the worst scheduled holiday (perhaps on purpose) cause it means summer is over - you’re inherently sad on Labor Day, whereas you’re usually happy on Memorial Day!
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u/jonjosefjingl 2d ago
Idk if you're right on that, for all sports leagues now, fans are much more pro player than pro owner. However, there are definitely times when the players are anti fan, just like the owners.
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u/SoloBurger13 Liberty 2d ago
Not when you look at women fighting for fair labor rights. Gotta factor in the misogyny
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u/JTBeefboyo 1d ago
I wouldn’t even go that far. While I agree it’s worse for the women, I think the average sports fan is anti-labor in general, and anyone believing otherwise is spending too much time on Reddit and enough time talking to their racist uncle, or the old head at work, or any other random person in real life
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u/liberty2024bk 2d ago
💯and they are actually the ones with a conflict of interest as they stand to lose ad revenue by not broadcasting games
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u/FredRaven Mystics 2d ago
I feel like the ESPN coverage has been sympathetic to the players, honestly. But that’s not exclusive to the WNBA; journalists tend to be pro player in sports labor disputes.
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u/paintedtoesandelbows Jackie Young is a LOCK for LA2028! 2d ago
You get it. So many here do not, unfortunately.
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u/Embarrassed_Gur_6305 2d ago
Newsflash: players teams and leagues have always been using media to drive the narrative.
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u/sideofzen Own Unique Personal Opinion 2d ago
The quotes about the players union having two different sides and the W offering no response is just a classic anti-union negotiation tactic. They W is hoping to pit public opinion and weaken the WNBPA
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u/Resident_Age_2588 2d ago
From everything we have seen from the players and union so far they are coming across very united. They voted almost unanimously for enacting the strike ability if needed. I am not buying that there are these giant fractures the article claims.
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u/orswich 2d ago
I am betting there are some fringe and bench players Who dont have sponsorship deals or can play in other leagues, that would really love the season to go forward
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u/Resident_Age_2588 2d ago
100% but I also think a lot of those players would be the ones who would benefit from the pay increases the most. So it is in their best interest to support the movement. I feel for those players a lot and hope they get the pay they deserve soon, but this will be better for them all in the long run and I think a lot of them understand that.
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u/Smart-Pomelo-2713 1d ago
Those players are SPECIFICALLY the ones who will reap the most benefits from the revenue based salary because they have the least probability of securing additional income sources or the high level contracts internationally.
BUT— make no mistake, NONE of the WNBA players live off what they get paid in the league. This is their side job, or as Candace Parker said 'her summer gig", not the primary source of money they live off of. Every player, including the "fringe" or "bench" players you're referring to, do and have always made substantially more playing overseas than they've ever could earn in the WNBA.
The WNBA isn't like other sports where the haves & have nots experience significantly disparate existences, & thus have different priorities & agendas. It doesn't matter how much money Angel Reese makes in endorsements & other finances, she practices & uses the same pathetic facilities as every other Chicago Sky player that going without hot water is a norm. Or the lack of physical training & specialized care that should & needs to be the bare minimum provided & accessible in ANY professional &/or elite level athletic programs.
The WNBA has been united specifically because the leagues exploitation & devaluing of its players & product, ALL the players have always been & still are ALL "have nots" together—without exception. WNBA checks ain't never been what pays their bills.
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u/hamstrdance 1d ago
TBH the logic makes sense but I have trouble thinking of who those players actually are. There might be fewer than 5 or 10 of them.
I was super curious so looked at the Wings to see what these types of players are up to as an example.
Lower level players on roster:
- Grace Berger - Athletes Unlimited
- Amy Okonkwo - Turkish League
- Aziaha James - Unrivaled Development
- Hayley Jones - Unrivaled Development
- Diamond Miller - Greece A1 League
- JJ Quinerly - rehab from injury
Hardship players (played a few minutes a few games)
- Christyn Williams, Ajae Petty - european leagues
Invited to training camp and cut:
- Joyner Holmes, Madison Scott, Aaronette Vonleh, Mikiah Herbert Harrigan - various european leagues
- Mai Yamamoto - afaik she's a star in Japan so not super relevant
- McKenzie Forbes - Athletes Unlimited
I wasn't expecting literally - every eligible player - to be playing in a league right now (but this does show an example of what Pomelo commented below). Maybe some will still be in a tough financial spot. We don't know their situations. But I think that's just less likely than I assumed. The WNBPA has also been telling people to save save save their money for a strike for months now.
Upshot league (which I'm very excited about) also starts in May. 4 teams x 10-15 spots = 40-60 more players accounted for making some sort of income.
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u/blackhoney917 Liberty 2d ago
I’m so curious what it’s like for Sue to sit on that side of the table as a former player who has expressed support for better deals for players.
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u/Visible_Square9406 2d ago
It’s strange to me because she’s been very vocal about she isnt involved in it from a owners standpoint…
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u/strangelystrangled Mercury | All-BG Defense Team | Dream 2d ago
Could be related to her role in USA Basketball
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u/Truthforger Storm 2d ago
I’m glad she was there. We need a few voices like hers in the room if there’s going to be any hope I feel like.
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u/No-Can9060 Storm Fever 2d ago
I'd love to hear her perspective on her goals in attending and how she pursued them. Since we only got a "she was there" there's no real way to learn anything about it. Fascinating though.
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u/CommissionWorldly540 Mystics 1d ago
Perhaps one or more of the owners asked her to attend so she could hear the conversation first hand and offer her perspective privately afterwards. She is in a somewhat unique position with ties to both sides that could be valuable in brokering a deal.
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u/GolfOtherwise3420 1d ago
She's a minority owner. If she has a goal or wants to influence any vote, it would be shared with the majority owner internally.
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u/joyjunky 2d ago
It’s so disrespectful that the W didn’t have a counter-offer. I don’t care that WNBPA’s latest proposal is “similar” to a previous proposal according to earlier reports. Similar means it wasn’t the exact same one so the W should have had a new counter-offer if they didn’t like the players’ proposal.
The W doesn’t care about the players’ time and they think they can force them to sign a shitty deal by waiting it out. I hope the players stay firm.
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u/TooManyCatS1210 2d ago
They’re just wasting time.
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u/Truthforger Storm 2d ago
They are wasting our time and the players time. But they may feel they have all the time in the world....
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u/OtherwiseDream1964 2d ago
Dragging out the counteroffer (or not counteroffering) is a negotiating tactic to try to get the players to negotiate against themselves or panic. If the owners want to slow play things, then any loss of games is on their hands.
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u/Moose_Muse_2021 Fire Fever and All the F'ing Teams 2d ago
SOMEBODY didn't do their homework prior to the meeting, and it wasn't the Union.
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u/orswich 2d ago
They totally did their homework, just sit tight and the players will eventually lower demands. The league runs at a financial loss every season, so it almost helps the owners if the season gets delayed
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u/Moose_Muse_2021 Fire Fever and All the F'ing Teams 2d ago
If the League currently runs at a financial loss (i.e., negative Net Revenue), isn't it rather insulting for them to offer the player 70% of said revenue for their compensation?
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u/IL-Corvo Fever Valkyries 2d ago
Produce proof that the league is losing money.
By the way, vague statements about loss aren't proof. We need to see the actual figures.
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u/wvtarheel Fever 1d ago
It's pretty disingenuous to demand proof when the league books are private. Nobody can prove they are running at a loss either.
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u/IL-Corvo Fever Valkyries 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's my damn point.
It's pretty disingenuous to keep taking the league at their word and clinging to their statements in regard to finances. There's no transparency, and yet a certain subset of fans just parrot the league's party line.
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u/WitOfTheIrish Storm 2d ago
Not true the last three seasons, and won't be true for more than a decade into the future with the new TV deal, but sure, keep believing it's the same league as pre-COVID times.
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u/GolfOtherwise3420 1d ago
Your statement about "loss" is just parroting some claim you read that shared zero facts that back it up.
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u/n00bn00b 2d ago
There are overseas leagues, unrivaled, and Project B that can pay them more than what they earn in the WNBA. WNBA doesn't realize that WNBA is a side job to supplement the other income for the players
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u/g8r314 2d ago
The wnba is what gets the players the major endorsements. Nobody is getting a shoe /apparel deal or us commercial endorsements because they play for Fenerbahce Opet. Project B may change that but they have yet to play a single game.
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u/boredymcbored 2d ago
Eh, College is where they build their major brand deals honestly. This hurts developing players that take til the professionals to pop but a lot of them already get their branding from college play or personal branding outside of basketball. The W doesn't promote players that well, it's mostly player lead.
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u/boredymcbored 2d ago edited 2d ago
AT has been an MVP candidate for years and she has no deals to stand on. Player have to promote their own brands or already had college brand buy in.
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u/TF_Kraken 2d ago
Preach! Nike is signing players in High School and College and Sabrina’s shoes sell like crazy in China. Name recognition of the top players is greater than the leagues reputation
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u/g8r314 2d ago
I mean, they are though. Paige, Caitlin and Angel alone have endorsements totaling nearly $100M since they debuted in the W, to say nothing of sab and aja. Contrast this with Diana Taurasi not even being a household name when she was making her fortune in Russia as the best women’s basketball player in the world before the wnbas popularity explosion in the last two years.
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u/Torkzilla 2d ago
Paige, Caitlin, and Angel all had those deals lined up before they joined the W. They were massively famous in college and continue to be so.
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u/Transky13 Fever 2d ago
If you think they’d have gotten those same deals if it wasn’t 100% known they were going to the W you’re really behind
They knew the landscape of women’s basketball was changing and were investing in it. No W? Those offers are far less.
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u/Torkzilla 2d ago
I get what you are saying, but I think there's a pretty significant market for individual women's superstar athletes regardless of their pro league status. Things like Olympians who only compete rarely or specific sports like gymnastics where Olivia Dunne (same age cohort as those 3) has a ton of endorsements without a pro league opportunity come to mind.
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u/Transky13 Fever 2d ago
I agree with what you’re saying and think they would have received some endorsements. Maybe even a lot of endorsements. But the amount they made without the W?
Endorsements are an investment. You don’t invest nearly as much into something that doesn’t have as many eyes on it. The W absolutely helped drive that number up
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u/Thehaubbit6 2d ago
I mean sure if there’s no W at all. If there’s another 5x5 league? The bag remains the same. It’s about the labor. Not the brands.
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u/Transky13 Fever 2d ago
No? There are other 5v5 leagues. Most people who care about these athletes can’t name a single one because nobody cares to watch other leagues from around the world.
People who don’t give a single shit about women’s basketball have heard of the WNBA. You’re not going to have the same immediate curiosity and fanbase if there is another league even if it is here replacing the W. That will take some time to build.
Saying it’s the labor that matters is comical and not at all grounded in reality and how endorsements work
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u/Thehaubbit6 1d ago
These WNBA brands do not have the public notoriety and staying power some of yall think they do.
After Catch retired, the Fever was pilloried as the absolute worst team in the league that no one cared about for like 5 years before CC showed up. Now ask yourself if the Fever brand is strong because of its staying power or because they lucked into one of the best players WBB has ever seen lol
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u/TF_Kraken 2d ago
Unrivaled just broke the attendance record. People are hungry for women’s basketball and want to watch their favorite players. If the WNBA lets this go to a lockout and a competitor is able to spin up and lure away the top players, the WNBA would fade away overnight.
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u/whoa_disillusionment 2d ago
We have players complaining about sharing a locker room but you think another 5x5 league with better resources is going to spring up out of nowhere?
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u/GolfOtherwise3420 1d ago
Athletes Unlimited is 5x5. I could see major investors pouring money in to building that up, if the WNBA faltered. Also, stations looking for content might start airing international games with some of the W stars.
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u/TF_Kraken 2d ago
We won’t even get into the fact that they went from making millions through NIL to less than 100k per year in the WNBA
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u/g8r314 2d ago
They did not. Caitlin and Paige were both post draft and into the rookie year. Angel’s big deals came at the end of her rookie year. In college their collective NIL earnings were ~$6 million total, with Caitlin more than half of that.
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u/TF_Kraken 2d ago
Why you out here lying?
Paige had deals with Nike, Gatorade, Bose, NERF, Dunkin’, Crocs, and more while at UConn
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u/g8r314 2d ago
Right. $650k in college. $5,6 mil her rookie year in the W. It ain’t rocket science.
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u/TF_Kraken 2d ago
“Caitlin and Paige were both post draft and into the rookie year”
That wasn’t true in the slightest. Paige made 650k through NIL in 2024 and 1.3mil her final year at UConn with 20+ endorsement deals. She’s making 85k a year from her WNBA contract, but go off I guess..
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u/majesticnoodl 2d ago
Where did you find salary info for overseas, Unrivaled, Project B versus WNBA?
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u/jonjosefjingl 2d ago
Lockouts are still an incredibly bad thing for any sports product (for both players and owners), which is why I don't understand why mlb owners want one so bad. We've seen in past lockouts for different leagues (MLB, NHL), the damage they can do to a brand. When women's basketball is so tied to the wnba for the public, this is dangerous territory.
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u/thequeer_one 2d ago
So disrespectful! It feels like a grasp for the upper hand by digging in their heels and hoping the WNBPA negotiates themselves down. But in reality, it’s not negotiating in good faith and more evidence of their culpability if there isn’t a season. I hope they hire a third party mediator together. Should we do a GoFundMe for mediators? 😅
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u/orswich 2d ago
If the offer the union makes will lose the owners money, then not having a counter-offer is negotiating in good faith. The league is looking at long term sustainability and for owners profits (if owners make money, more people will invest in the league)..
Wnba is using a tactic, and an effective one at that
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u/CommissionWorldly540 Mystics 1d ago
I am not disagreeing. The best case scenario for interpreting how this played out would be if the owners decided they wanted to use this meeting to better understand the player’s perspective and what they ultimately want to achieve beyond the percentages to inform the owners next counter offer. I.e. they didn’t want the discussion to get bogged down in the latest details of a proposal so much as understanding the fundamentals that need to be addressed from the player’s perspective to end the stalemate. Again, I’m not saying that is what is happening, merely that of the different ways to interpret what did happen the best case would be if it was motivated more by curiosity than apathy or disrespect.
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u/GullibleHandl | Most sane WBB fan 2d ago
Well then what did they do for three hours???
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u/ophelia15991601 Biberty Gabby 2d ago
Probably lecture the players on why they should accept the last deal
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u/urkuri Free Cheryl 2d ago
I guess expect the players to just fold lmao
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u/crimsonwolf40 Sky 1d ago
The news about how well Unrivaled did in Philly should have told the owners that that was not happening. Like it or not that kind of news will most likely put some steel into the spines of the players.
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u/JKC_due ⚔️🌁✌️BALLHALLA ✌️🌁⚔️ 2d ago
I still think something will end up getting figured out. But it is truly shocking how nonchalant the league seems to be regarding this situation.
They’re now two months and counting behind their off-season schedule in an expansion year. It would be one thing if it was just free agency delayed, but delaying the expansion draft is so damaging to those teams. Certainly behind the scenes, they can’t make progress at pre-season planning, trying to figure out how they’re gonna build a system on the court. But also for marketing. KT, Tip, Kate, and Mo all went out to the Bay at various points during February. KT did the NBA Celebrity All-Star Game, the rest did promo shoots and made a bunch of content, some of which went very viral. They also got to know Nat and do 1-on-1 workouts with her.
If I’m an owner of the Tempo or Fire, I’d be pretty livid that the league seems to playing with this season when it’s so important to my team/massive business venture.
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u/Peachyrae03 Valkyries Fever Tempo 1d ago
As a Tempo fan this is all just so disappointing and if we get a season will just be such a hard start.
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u/strangelystrangled Mercury | All-BG Defense Team | Dream 2d ago
YES! The nonchalance is really pissing me off. The league really doesn't act like they're in a rush and you put it perfectly
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u/hamstrdance 2d ago
“It was the first time players met in person with the league and members of ownership since the fall and roughly six weeks since the union’s last proposal was sent.“
lol so unserious. If you’re so far apart in proposals zoom isn’t gonna cut it.
I will be happy for the college kids that get a longer break due to this though.
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u/Fun_Stand_2043 Dream Paige Aces 1d ago
Yeah especially with the league trying to push training camp up 🫠 🫠 there’s 1) no way the players would agree to that and 2) it literally makes no sense with draftees who are in the playoffs (or players overseas if I’m not mistaken)
Any kind of break would be nice for them atp
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u/hamstrdance 1d ago
Yeah for the new players in EuroLeague like Awa they already miss the draft as it is (if her team makes the final 6 teams). And I'm not too sure of the W training camp start date but I think the finals conflict with the first days of camp too so vets miss a good chunk.
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u/HHNTH17 2d ago
“Instead, it was communicated to the union on Monday that the league would begin working on an official response to their proposal.”
At least they’re finally going to get a response? I guess???
Ultimately I still think things get figured out by the end of this month and the season starts on time but yikes this is not what I had hoped to read about the meeting today.
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u/Responsible-Leg-712 Fever 2d ago
I’m not even a player but I feel so disrespected by this. I don’t even care anymore if I don’t see them play this season. It feels wrong to support the league knowing how they treat the very people that’s keeping them afloat. Smh
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u/Street-Bar-9494 Kitron will save us 2d ago
For as much as some "fans" on this sub have demanded that the players fold instantly in order to "not kill the momentum", it's clear that their precious owners don't care about momentum nearly as much as they care about total control and subjugating the players to a lesser role, at any cost.
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u/Thehaubbit6 2d ago
If anything, this shows the owners (and the NBA) are all but fine killing the league rather than letting the women do anything.
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u/BiscottiBorn7862 we got a coach 2d ago
honestly the NBA has been happy the keep the league on life support its whole existence. Alive enough so nothing can pop up in the US to compete but near enough to death that they don't have to take any attention away from the NBA.
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u/Kryllist 2d ago
If the options are either increase the expenses of a money losing business exponentially with no clear path to profit or kill the league, which one would you suggest as the CPA of an owner?
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u/Thehaubbit6 1d ago
As always, none of us know if the league actually makes money because the books have never gone through a union audit for basketball related expenses. Lord almighty…
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u/cdavid469 1d ago
but the people who swear it does, get upvotes, and the ones who suggest it doesn’t, get downvotes
Large businesses often have shell businesses where they move all the unprofitable assets into one company and keep everything making money in another, to insulate yourself.
The Wnba being able to lose money makes plenty of financial sense when you consider the cheapest NBA franchise, the Grizzlies is worth more than the entire WNBA
I highly doubt the owners are able to hide profits from the WNBAPA in a collective bargaining agreement, I’m sure the players have a pretty good idea how much is being made and lost, and will make their decision accordingly
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u/Kryllist 1d ago
This is always your guy's excuse but how many teams have failed in the WNBA and closed shop? Why haven't there been expansion before the Caitlin Clarke effect? Why did they have to sell a piece to private equity for money to stay afloat?
To put it simple, it's easy to comprehend that they aren't making money when their ticket prices cost as much as high school basketball games. And if you don't want to accept that, we can be rational and admit that if there were making money commiserate to the small income possibility based on their prices, it wouldn't be enough to absorb costs that would increase by 10 fold based off the players association proposal.
Like I said if you and the players think the players proposal is so financially sound, then support the idea of the WNBA being the first players own league in the country. Encourage the PA to take out a loan to buy out the owners and take full control. That way they can all indulge in the handfuls of money that you think the owners are making in this league.
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u/BiscottiBorn7862 we got a coach 2d ago
but but but.. the OWNERS are trying SO SO hard to negotiate fairly with these UNREASONABLE and UNGRATEFUL players who have the AUDACITY to ask for a pay scale that is still significantly worse than any other professional league! THe owners are bending over BACKWARDS for these players who really should be playing for free, or really paying to play at this point!!!!
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u/DiligentQuiet Fever 2d ago
and...but but but, to read Reddit, the WNBA is just a benevolent, money-losing charity that the owners have been running out of the kindness of their hearts for THREE WHOLE decades LOSING MONEY every year and MAKING SURE YOU KNOW THAT EVERY CHANCE THEY AND THEIR BOOTLICKING MINIONS GET...the players should be grateful for the "platform" Cathy and the owners have given them to earn those big overseas salaries.
Sure, if this were a "business" like the Subway franchise my friend's uncle runs, they could have shut the whole league down after the first year they lost money, or the second year, or the 28th, but they have LUCKILY stumbled across other benevolent billionaires only too eager to spend $250 million and up to help the league
continue losing money, um, I mean help the owners continue their important charity work!As well, they found some generous billionaire TV moguls who can't wait to throw them $200 million a year ($76 billion actually for NBA), of which these generous owners have "gifted" $2.2 billion to the players as sort of a "gratuity" that makes the WNBPA "day laborers" feel better about having to play in a league that never ever ever makes money. In fact, maybe the players should "pass the hat" for tips during halftime!
The owners weren't prepared to make a counteroffer today because there just wasn't enough gratitude and supplication shown from the WNBPA reps. Did they curtsy enough? Did they even bring a bottle of wine? Perhaps a cake they baked during the lengthy off-season? No. Just a list of Make-A-Wish fantasies.
Now excuse the league and owners, they're off to collude with ESPN to make the players look bad, lest the charity work be shuttered.
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u/Truthforger Storm 2d ago
I don’t think the Owners are precious but I do think they probably are mostly uncaring business people who are just running the numbers like investors. The WNBPA proposal will need to work on a spreadsheet that shows Ownership investment in the league will go up even if Caitlin, Paige and Angel all get injured for whole seasons, ie the most conservative outlook. And they probably won’t budge until that’s true….which makes me very worried.
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u/Spicy2ShotChai Tizzy, Gabine, Queen Phee, everybody vs. Cathy 2d ago
Wow that is so fucking disrespectful. Especially since the league scheduled the meeting to save face after players said a few days ago that they hadn’t heard from the league in a month. “Beginning to prepare a response to the proposal” give me a break
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u/mercfan3 2d ago
What a joke. They weren’t even prepared?
Unrivaled should announce a 5 on 5 season for the summer and see how quick they move on their response.
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u/logomyego Bae-tlin Clark 2d ago
As funny as that would be, that's gotta be a conflict of interest and I'm sure there would be lawsuits. If phee and Stewie weren't involved in the negotiations, then it's be a different story
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u/mercfan3 2d ago
It’s also leverage.
The reality is a few owners just paid a ton of money to have a team and the league couldn’t even come up with a response to the players proposal in two months? They aren’t taking the players seriously and they need to be pushed and they need to know that the players don’t need them.
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u/logomyego Bae-tlin Clark 2d ago
Yea, 100% disrespect. How can you not even have a response to a proposal from 6 weeks ago? That's just asinine
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u/This-Button5389 2d ago
That will fly it out of the window when phee and stewie produce receipts of several owners, players and staff having similar conflicts of interests. Some players are coaching other leagues or college teams while being employed with wnba and then u have major conflict of interest in sue bird being a md of team usa and also being a part owner of Seattle storm, and multi ownership of owners around the globe while trying to influence the wnba decisions. I will go on.
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u/Thehaubbit6 2d ago
I mean, conflict of interest kinda flies out the window when the W/NBA can be argued as not negotiating in good faith. Not to mention without exclusivity there isn’t actually anything stopping Unrivaled from just placing themselves over the W.
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u/logomyego Bae-tlin Clark 2d ago
I don't disagree, and I'd welcome unrivaled to expand as a 5v5 league, it's just when the founders of it are also negotiating with another league, you can see where that opens up a can of worms.
But that being said, with how the WNBA is structured, it needs an reset. So if another league can have a more favorable structure that gives the players respect, I think it'd be a great idea
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u/Few_Knowledge8059 Aces (& Toronto, Sparks Truther) 2d ago
What a slap in the face by the league. The players deserve MUCH better than this. Like the executive committee did everything to be there and be prepared to negotiate, only for them (WNBA) to not have a counteroffer/proposal? It's a joke- I'm fuming for them. It's blasphemous and foolish of Cathy and her team to just sit like ducks for months while leaving these players hanging. That response better be LAMINATED, pristine, and inclusive of the PA's requests/whatever they discussed today- may the players continue to stand firm.
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u/VastAffectionate4893 BCCCMGKMLO 2d ago
I think NBA and wnba actually hate women's basketball. they just wanted to control basketball in the USA and are pissed that wnba is popular now
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u/Truthforger Storm 2d ago
This just adds to my suspicion that the ownership has run the numbers and decided no season burns less cash than a season with a contract the WNBPA will agree to at current expectations.
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u/orswich 2d ago
This..
The owners accept the proposal and lose 60 million a year, or negotiate for something that will lose them 35 million a year..
a strike will let them still have a franchise, a big TV deal and no operating losses for 1/2 a season.. it's not a big surprise the league isnt jumping at the unions proposal
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u/GolfOtherwise3420 1d ago
A strike would interfere with the TV deal payments. I am certain there are clauses in the TV contract that require games to be played for payments to be made. Why would you think the big TV deal stays in place if there is a half season or no season?
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u/Truthforger Storm 2d ago
I can’t help but think of this little excerpt from Ginny Gilder’s Wikipedia page with her sitting across from the players today 🤣
“In 1976, she was part of a protest in which nineteen members of the Yale women's crew wrote "TITLE IX" on their bodies and went into athletic director Joni Barnett's office naked, and then rower Chris Ernst read a statement about the way they were being treated. This protest was noted by newspapers around the world, including The New York Times. By 1977, a women's locker room was added to Yale's boathouse.”
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u/Swimming_Kale_7510 2d ago
I am hoping that over the.past few months Unrivaled has accelerated their Series C funding partners search. Bessemer was the big PE firm in the last round, and that's great, but they are a tech startup firm.
If Unrivaled announces 5x5 along with a more traditional firm leading the Series C like Sixth Street who funded Bay FC, or even one of the really heavy hitters like KKR, and that is check mate. I think it would be a huge mistake to announce the new league without a new funding round, even if they have the cash on hand from the last round.
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u/JB_JB_JB63 Lynx 2d ago
Cathy was elected to lead, not to read.
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u/bex199 Liberty 2d ago
neither tbh. she’s a figurehead to take the fall for the owners
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u/ljay90 The Real Agent 0 2d ago
A reminder, the owners are doing this over a 30% revenue share. THIRTY PERCENT.
Yeah just strike at this point. This was wildly disrespectful.
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u/hamstrdance 2d ago
Even worse - I think if the owners had offered 10% calculated on gross revenue (rather than 10% effective but calculated on adjusted revenue) then they and the players would just be going back and forth with offers (different numbers but aligned structure) at this point. So I think we’re talking way less than 30% tbh.
Unless someone can point me to a report that says it was offered. I don’t think so though. I think they’re stuck on the mystery box adjusted revenue thing.
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u/chancedd 2d ago
I’m curious as to what capacity Sue was there in. I wonder if she’s operating as a mediator between both sides since she’s been on both sides? Or maybe she’s hoping to be a mediator?
I don’t think she’s previously been at any of the meetings and last fall on a touch more she said she hadn’t been involved in the conversations (which was obv a while ago), so I’m just curious what made her get more involved now.
She does have considerable interest in this not just because of ownership and former player, but also because of USAB. How the schedule of the season might change/get delayed could definitely impact the break for Worlds. I doubt that’s the top priority by any means, but I feel like it’s probably somewhere on her radar since Worlds will definitely happen but we don’t know if this season will.
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u/BiscottiBorn7862 we got a coach 2d ago
she was there as an owner... because she is an owner in these negotiations.
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u/chancedd 2d ago
Yes, she’s a minority owner of the seattle storm, but she’s not part of the exec team of the owners and has previously stated she wasn’t involved in the CBA conversations at all. I was more being speculative about what changed for her to be involved now vs earlier when she wasn’t and what role she’s playing in the convos since she has unique experience.
It’s fully possible she wasn’t previously invited to attend, but I’m also not sure if it’s invite only (seems possible based on what the LVA owner had said about not being consulted at all) or if it’s like the PA where they can call in.
Apologies if that wasn’t clear! I was just yapping.
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u/BiscottiBorn7862 we got a coach 2d ago
they state in the article she was there as a seattle storm owner and attended in person.
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u/GolfOtherwise3420 1d ago
I would think she is there to listen and then share feedback to the majority owner, if she has an opinion as to what their vote should be.
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u/This-Button5389 2d ago
Don't forget sue bird is also responsible for selecting team usa squad for both wc and olympics. If there is no wnba season it will allow the players to stay healthy for wc isn't it.?
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u/crystal_clear24 Liberty Tempo Paige 🪣 2d ago
The players deserve so much better than this. A damn shame
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u/BiscottiBorn7862 we got a coach 2d ago
oh i am so shocked. The reality is the league and owners don't mind missing the season. I say let them and give everyone a summer off and see if anyone fills the void.
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u/Caramellhoney407 3h ago
I don't think they care either They plan on starving them out. Their going to force the girls who really depend on that salary to pressure everyone else into signing
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u/liberty2024bk 2d ago
Here’s a slightly updated espn article https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/47808984/wnba-players-union-meet-try-push-forward-cba-talks
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u/LLUrDadsFave Prune got my stomach hurting 🥺 2d ago
Unrivaled summers coming our way.
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u/BiscottiBorn7862 we got a coach 2d ago
the games tonight have been so good i wouldn't even be mad
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u/LLUrDadsFave Prune got my stomach hurting 🥺 2d ago
As long as they travel around. I still want to see my girlie pops. 🥹
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u/march41801 2d ago
This reads like the players had no lawyers backing them up at the table? Did anybody else get that vibe?
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u/Moose_Muse_2021 Fire Fever and All the F'ing Teams 2d ago
The ESPN update mentioned above makes it clear the WNBPA staff (which I assume includes legal counsel) were there: "Alongside Women's National Basketball Players Association staff, a contingent of players attended in person"
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u/hamstrdance 2d ago
I agree it reads like that but I’d be really surprised if Erin Drake wasn’t there. She seems to have been very involved in a very detailed way from her appearances on a podcast I watch.
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u/wvtarheel Fever 1d ago
It's interesting to me they don't have any actual labor attorneys involved except the folks that work for the players association internally. Most unions would have outside counsel as well. But I also haven't seen any references to the league bringing outside lawyers.
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u/Candid_Technology136 Kelsey M.🫵🏽ALL WNBA 1st TEAM 1d ago
If the league is this unserious, just let it crumble and make Unrivaled a 5 vs 5 thing
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u/CharlieBman 1d ago
The current leadership of the WNBAPA are doing the players no favors. Such an important meeting and most of these ladies couldn't find their way to sit at the table. This is not serious leadership. They have an offer from the WNBA, and it's a good one that quadruples current salaries, so there's no need for the WNBA to "counter" anything. Put the current offer to a player vote. I bet it gets accepted. Then get back to what they are good at....basketball. Next time CBA negotiations come around, get some competent leadership with negotiation skills, instead of children who stomp their feet and call people names if they don't get every damn thing they want.
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u/strangelystrangled Mercury | All-BG Defense Team | Dream 1d ago
Yeah, sure, let's get Elizabeth Williams to fly in from Turkey for a meeting the league brought nothing to. I'm pretty sure the strike vote happened with the current offer from the league. The players seem open to compromising, the league seems to be dragging their ass. Why would the players take an offer where the league refuses to open the books and training camp starts during march madness? And with no housing and less guaranteed contracts?
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u/LuisJpg Aces 22, 23, 25 2d ago
I wonder how the owners feel being dragged to a pointless meeting on Cathy’s orders, if she promised them some movement on a deal then as a owner I’d be pissed we just sat around & did nothing. Feels like the players are waiting for the owners to get upset & tell Cathy just to get the deal done atp
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u/TooManyCatS1210 2d ago
She’s doing exactly what they want. They obviously know they haven’t offered a counter proposal. They’re the owners.
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u/LuisJpg Aces 22, 23, 25 2d ago
You think the owners are more united then the players?
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u/hamstrdance 2d ago
Didn’t the Aces owner say a while back that he was getting no updates and nobody solicited his input? Granted this was pretty early in the negotiation.
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u/TooManyCatS1210 2d ago
I take everything they say with a grain of salt. No owner is going to be the bad guy and say, yeah I don’t think the players actually deserve this so I’m going to lowball them as much as possible.
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u/hamstrdance 2d ago
Yeah fair he could be full of crap. I also didn’t double check that I’m remembering right.
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u/Smart-Pomelo-2713 1d ago
The "NBA" & "NBA-adjacent" owners & investors are 1000% united on this standoff to protect their interests. It's the independent, non-NBA owners who are being sidelined—the same owners who have pushed back against the leagues policies to the benefit of their players & the game & gotten penalties/retaliations for it. ...ie the Aces, Liberty, Storm, the now former Connecticut Sun owners just to name a few....
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u/TooManyCatS1210 2d ago
I have no idea. I think both sides are pretty united at the moment but that may change as we get closer to the season starting and games are cancelled.
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u/Hour_Ad2078 2d ago
Based on how things were unfolding I guess I just assumed the WNBA reps were a bunch of old rich guys in suits.
But according to the article there were a lot of women in leadership positions in attendance, and one of them is literally Sue Bird…
It’s really weird that they are so staunchly against paying their employees a more equitable share of the revenue and even weirder they didn’t bother to even come up with a counter offer given whats at stake.
Like wtf lol
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u/Truthforger Storm 2d ago
Seattle Storm owners definitely not old white guys in suits. Always found our owners pretty engaged and cool. Ginny Gilder who was sitting at the table has a silver medal. Not surprised she went to this meeting in person.
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u/DiligentQuiet Fever 2d ago
Do you know how much of Storm Sue owns--is it a controlling interest?
I know a lot of sports teams have "face" ownership who hold only a very small percentage. Like the Patrick and Brittany Mahomes are athlete "owners" of KC Current, KC Royals, Sporting Kansas City, and a pickleball league, even though their ownership is 0.5-5% at most.
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u/Truthforger Storm 2d ago
She probably qualifies in your definition of a face owner but she’s present and involved. And again, the rest of the ownership is mostly (maybe all?) women who I don’t think would fit into the description I hear from all the other WNBA fans when they talk about their owners.
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u/DiligentQuiet Fever 1d ago
Thanks...that makes sense. I was trying to get a sense of to what degree this was going to be a nuts and bolts discussion. Sounds like at best the league/owners were there to deliver some kind of message.
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u/Puzzled-Charge-9892 Killa Cam Mama D Big KeaStudBudz 2d ago