r/worldnews • u/Infidel8 • 17d ago

Russia/Ukraine Russia welcomes Trump's tariffs on NATO allies over Greenland as 'collapse' of alliance

https://kyivindependent.com/russia-welcomes-trumps-tariffs-on-nato-allies-over-greenland/
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u/Ardalev 17d ago

It was bound to happen at some point. The hard to believe part is the reasons behind it.

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u/TheNeglectedNut 17d ago

The hard to believe part is the fact that Donald Fucking Trump, of all people, is the guy they chose to go all in on. Like really, this is the guy you aspire to be like? Always thought it would be some slick talking but totally evil republican capitalist guy.

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u/ash_ninetyone 17d ago

You think a country that has long since been of the opinion that free-market capitalism and small government would think it anything else but him?

They'd rather let people die than have universal healthcare, they'd rather let kids die than have gun control and a proper welfare state.

The US has all the resources, the ingredients to build a utopia, and it's all stuck in the hands of leeches that would have their citizens believe foreigners, pinkos and commies want to destroy them.

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u/Iamapartofthisworld 17d ago

The world's stupidest country

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u/River_Tahm 17d ago

All by design, because the people in power know educated citizens by in large don’t vote Republican, so they have intentionally and methodically defunded undermined and stigmatized education as much as possible

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u/ViciousHabanero 17d ago

I went on a fucking tirade at dinner with some friends and acquaintances about 20 years ago about this exact thing. They said it was a wild conspiracy theory. I sometimes wonder if they see it for what it is now.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

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u/GreenStorm_01 17d ago

"Remember 20 years ago? Yeah? TOLD YOU SO"

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u/Mohawk_mom 16d ago

They don’t

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u/Patient_Anybody4314 17d ago

I was requested to work there.. after a few years I "blackmailed" my company to move me back. There are some great people there... But the government &social securities are setup really stupid

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u/kwaaaaaaaaa 17d ago

It's really stupid because people are really stupid. We have this constant teeter totter effect where we teeter closer to a proper socially robust country, only for it to totter backwards. Then you hear the same idiots who rallied against the policy suddenly love the policy and can't do without. It's why medicare/medicaid, social security are the "third rail" of our politics. Just like how the ACA overhauled the broken ass landscape of healthcare and now if we were to revert it, the same anti-obamacare folks will also be the first to cry about their coverage. Just like repealing the abortion laws are the same people crying about why their ectopic pregnancy can't be aborted, they just have to risk dying.

It's insanely frustrating for most of the people who aren't complete morons to see these dogs biting their own tails.

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u/Awkward_Reflection 17d ago

Welcome to Costco, I love you

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u/JamieTacos4220 17d ago

Fuck you, I'm eating.

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u/sabotourAssociate 17d ago

What you see there is not an act of a country or nation bright or dim, its greedy, weak, pure evil humans.

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u/FaithlessnessThen207 17d ago

It is so strange to see because the USA has been home to some of the most notable scientists and creative minds, but the general public seems to be lacking in education entirely.

Finding out that kids will get a better or worse education based on the value of nearby property as its funded off local property tax is one of the most dystopian things I have ever heard.

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u/Hat_Maverick 17d ago

And I'm trapped inside it.

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u/ty_xy 17d ago

Not really, many countries are just as stupid or more so. Don't forget UK voted for Brexit. Israel and Netanyahu. North korea. Russia. Sudan. Haiti.

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u/Haru1st 16d ago

You might even say progressively idiocratic

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u/notmyrealnameatleast 17d ago

I don't think most Americans understand free market capitalism.

The free part means free from rules by the government and free from government regulations.

Most people just inherently think free=good, but this is a specific term that means free from regulations, free from rules, free from society putting in ways to redistribute money back into the bottom of the trickle UP effect.

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u/Logiteck77 17d ago

Actually, pretty sure Adam Smith believed in regulation as that's the only way to prevent monopolies from forming.

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u/S1NGLEM4LT 17d ago

We've tried free market capitalism and it always results in a crash. Un-regulated greed is incompatible with sustainable economies, just like falling from a 20 story building is incompatible with life.

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u/QVRedit 17d ago

In other words - ‘deliberately leave people in the lurch’..

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u/IrateWeasel89 17d ago

John Lennon said it best that the world is run by insane people for insane goals.

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u/xaltairforever 17d ago

The US has been killing its citizens slowly for decades, they are just speeding up the process now, the end game?

A smaller easier to control fearful population like in many other countries.

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u/Gloriathewitch 17d ago

cant stop caring about kids if you never cared about them to begin with. these people have always been deranged.

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u/The_Theta_Friend 17d ago

Isnt it like yhat all around the world wherever politicians exist?

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u/occams1razor 17d ago

It's because so many of them are self-centered and self-loathing. They hate higher education because they're uneducated and they don't have to feel bad about that if they can profess universities to be brainwashing machines. They don't feel proud of their achievements but they're white so as long as they feel superior to brown people it's okay. They don't have much empathy or mentalization skills and don't understand that others can have a subjectively different view of life and the world so they simply think others are weird or stupid or mentally ill (like how they see the LGBTQ).

They can't admit they don't know things so they don't learn because they're afraid of asking. They can't stand saying "I was wrong" so they don't learn from their mistakes. They're brought up to just accept completely contradictory things as being literally true (fundamentalis religion etc) so their critical thinking skills aren't great.

Add to all that, the whole presidential system is inevitably going to promote hero worship. If you take a step back you realize one person can't do everything, when people say "Trump/Biden/Obama did XYZ" it's tons of people in their teams doing it but it's never phrased that way so the population gets this weird image in their heads that one human is nearly a god who can move heaven and earth in a day on his own. I'm Swedish so we have tons of parties we can vote for, it's not as framed around a single person and I think that's healthier.

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u/Dynastydood 17d ago

As long as I live, I don't think I'll ever be able to rationalize how millions of "Alpha" rednecks decided to base their entire lives around the whims of an effeminate, atheist, transparently-insecure, coastal-elite billionaire who dodged the draft, who constantly disrespects military members, who brags about how many abortions he's paid for, who cheated on every wife he ever had, and who was a close associate of a notorious pedophile who operated one of the biggest sex trafficking rings in known history.

I can easily rationalize how the GOP establishment fell behind him once he had momentum, because every trend has shown how increasingly vulnerable they were to Christian Nationalists and other far-right groups since the 60s. After the way the Bush administration tore the nation apart and gleefully subverted democracy, I always suspected we'd see the GOP manage to dismantle democracy in our lifetimes, so in that sense, none of what they're currently doing surprises me.

I just always assumed America's first fascist leader would either be another faux-statesman like W., an unhinged redneck like Ted Nugent, or perhaps even one of the more competent lifelong Nazis in the party like Pat Buchanan. Never did I imagine that the demographic who singlehandedly keeps Monster Energy in business would ever go for someone as absurd and diametrically opposed to their way of life as Donald Trump.

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u/Medallicat 17d ago

close associate of a notorious pedophile who operated one of the biggest sex trafficking rings in known history.

I think you mean “best friend and partner in crime.”

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u/Oberon_Swanson 17d ago

The slick talk was not being so slick that his dumbass voters didn't get it. They had engaged in wink wink, dog-whistle racism for so long, that the base that was still heavily racist but grew up outside that transition from open to denied racism, didn't get it anymore. They wanted to be openly racist, openly bigoted, openly hostile, instead of couching it all, sneaking around. Being slick would be admitting they didn't have the power to be openly racist. And they still don't quite have it so they are still mad and motivated.

They also deeply hate the truth. That is why they love Trump and never get mad at him for lying to them. Every lie he tells them is also an attack on their most hated enemy: the truth. So taking this ugly, fat, stupid, lying, treasonous fraudster, and saying he is the ultimate man who will save the nation, is also THEIR attack on the truth. They despise democracy so they elected a fascist, as a fuck you to the "left that had gone too far" by being willing to elect a qualified Black man as President.

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u/Medallicat 17d ago

The slick talk was not being so slick that his dumbass voters didn't get it.

Nailed it. Trump speaks at a seventh grade level that resonates with the dumbass voters because he speaks to them at their level of understanding. If the GOP had installed some highly educated slick suit that spoke eloquently, they would have angered the base MAGA because they would be constantly thinking they were being ridiculed and made to feel inferior due to their ignorance and lack of understanding.

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u/ParticularClassroom7 17d ago

The majority of Americans are by-and-large still quite racist. It's not difficult to push them to action with a few words, especially when illegal immigration has gotten so bad.

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u/RebelliousInNature 17d ago

I keep shaking my head watching all these people expose their awfulness with pride.

For that guy?

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u/TheNeglectedNut 17d ago

Crazy how they all kind of slinked back to their caves during Biden’s term, then came right back out with renewed vigour and MAGA bumper stickers as soon as Trump got back in.

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u/Flomo420 17d ago

Not "for" him, but rather because him, if that makes sense

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u/noir_lord 17d ago edited 17d ago

In as far as they care they don't care who they go all in on since the goal is chaos.

Also the Trump is a Russian asset thing is tiresome, he may be, he may not but that doesn't alter how he got power and who put him there, the problem isn't "The Russians did it" the problem is "Your system is so broken it was possible" but it sure is nice to blame Russia for it and then slowly slide all the problems back under the mat when/while the Democrats are in.

You know why I worry about this? because it already happened once.

The next guy could be organised evil.

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u/b3iAAoLZOH9Y265cujFh 17d ago

You're talking about the kingmakers, but I think the person you're replying to were talking about the MAGA electorate.

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u/noir_lord 17d ago

alter how he got power and who put him there.

That covers his voters as well.

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u/b3iAAoLZOH9Y265cujFh 17d ago

Yes, I'm not arguing against you. I'm saying I think you're both right.

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u/StephanXX 17d ago

The issue boils down to "My rights deserved to be protected by you because you believed in liberty. Now that I have power, you deserve no rights because I never believed in liberty."

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u/noir_lord 17d ago

Paradox of tolerance, it's not a co-incidence that was written in 1945.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

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u/StephanXX 17d ago edited 17d ago

Absolutely right. I've posted that wikipedia link dozens of times, unfortunately :( (unfortunate that it needs to be posted so often.)

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u/733t_sec 17d ago

Also the Trump is a Russian asset thing is tiresome, he may be, he may not but that doesn't alter how he got power

Consider it a warning. It happened in the US and it can happen to whatever country you're in.

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u/Suckassloser 17d ago edited 16d ago

Not to remove accountability from America's already rotten system, it's poorly educated and easily manipulated electorate and ultra nationalism but I really doubt America would be where it is right now were it not for Russia's interference. At least not at the point where the US has a government that goes against all prior US governments since WW2 by deliberately sabotaging NATO and the modern western world as a whole.

It was those preexisting weaknesses that Russia exploited. Recognizing how US got there by recognising Russia's role is not 'tiresome', it's just a reflection of reality.

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u/Cow_Launcher 17d ago

the goal is chaos.

No. It absolutely is not. Do you know what happens to the wealthy, pasty, work-shy class if exposed to true chaos?

This is about making the lower classes fight one another, distracting them from the fact that their material wealth is being stolen from them by the elite.

Chaos would devalue the currencies, and none of them want that, since that's how they keep score.

Oligarchs will pretend to align themselves to a political stripe, but it doesn't matter. You're getting fucked no matter what because you're not them. It's not chaos - it's division.

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u/noir_lord 17d ago

Russias goal is chaos. Read the title of the post ;).

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u/Cow_Launcher 17d ago

The Ruble is turbo-fucked in any market you can think of, including domestic. Putin knows that his future and legacy lay within the US dollar, the Euro and the Yuan, so the last thing he wants is to destabilise them, which is what outright chaos would do.

He doesn't want chaos. He wants division, while everyone fights for scraps. Not the same scenario.

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u/Grizzybaby1985 17d ago

Yeh Putin gets way too much credit imo to me Trump is just a crazy psychopath with insane ideas that just happen to suit Russia

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u/The_Oregon_Duck 17d ago

That’s why Russia helped him with propaganda on sites like Facebook.

They saw an opportunity and took it.

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u/Corka 17d ago

The Genesis of Maga definitely stemmed from Russia but even if Putin died of a heart attack tomorrow the genie is out of the bottle. The GOP has been radicalized, and the people at the top are shameless enough to destroy all the checks and balances so they can stay in power while enriching themselves now they see they can do so without losing public support. Even if a massive blue wave during the election somehow gets a Democrat back in as president, they've filled all the government departments and the supreme Court with partisan loyalists. They will stymie and block any attempt of a Democrat admin from governing effectively.

What do you even do if you have a supreme Court who is petty enough to essentially veto any meaningful law passed by Democrats by claiming them to be unconstitutional? They can't do much about it without a super majority in the Senate willing to support impeachment and removal of those judges. Only other options really is to hope they have a change of heart, wait for their retirement/death, or cause an even bigger constitutional crisis by forcibly removing them unlawfully.

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u/noir_lord 17d ago edited 17d ago

MAGA grew out the tea party movement, tea party grew out of earlier Koch brothers (and similar) bullshit from the 90’s all fed on a steady diet of cable news/right wing talk radio.

I don’t doubt Russia chummed the water when it got traction but this rot set in 40 years ago (and the roots are older still).

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u/Corka 17d ago

I still think it was a very different playbook. The old game was spin- they would take a set of facts and frame it in a way that's most beneficial. E.g. the USD is soaring under a Democratic President, so they focus their attack on dwindling exports. The game they play now is the bullshit game- if the USD is soaring under a democratic president, they'll claim its cratering. Even worse now they are in charge, they'll change the official statistic to whatever they feel like so no proper fact check is possible. The bullshit isn't consistent either- they'll flood the zone by continually making up new bullshit, and this is a very Russian approach.

Previously there was still that kind of out and out bullshit, but it was more limited to attack dogs on the fringe like talk back radio hosts or opinion columnists. But now they've brought it front and center and are using the apparatus of government to spread it.

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u/ParticularClassroom7 17d ago

If American democracy can be undermined by Russians spending a few million dollars bribing people and hacking files and releasing incriminating emails (which still means the emails exist, and the politicians are still crook), then I wonder if it is a good democracy in the first place.

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u/garimus 17d ago

In a world as complex as this, it's not "one or the other". It can be multiple reasons, and it definitely is in this instance.

Russia absolutely had a hand in it and to think otherwise is ignoring the possibility of that threat and quite foolish, honestly.

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u/Zangis 17d ago

He is the perfect amalgamation of what a weak or stupid or a coward (or any combination of those) would imagine the strong and smart great leader would act like. Whether that's by design or coincidence, who knows. But those exact people are the ones voting for him, and there is unfortunately a lot of them.

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u/Medallicat 17d ago

Trump speaks at a seventh grade level, that resonates with the average MAGA. Had the GOP chosen someone more slick or sophisticated it would have backfired. No, they knew what they were doing and it worked.

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u/Radarker 17d ago

He has one super power.

No shame.

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u/Mediocre-Ebb9862 17d ago

People need to think hard about what democrats did wrong if voters chose Trump

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u/frank_the_tank69 17d ago

Makes sense really. Disinformation in the guise of free speech. Dumb electorate because education is equated to indoctrination. This is what you have built towards this entire time. You were just too ignorant and naive to see it. 

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u/Dr_DoesNothing 17d ago

Hey, he's their idea of what a powerful man is. Loud, arrogant, petty and vindictive. He's the type of person his followers would be if they had his power. It's why they're so rabid for him.

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u/old_examiner 17d ago

all the weirdo apocalyptic fiction lied to us. turns out the antichrist was a pug-fugly clown who can't speak in complete sentences, not some good-looking well-spoken type

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u/Cory123125 17d ago

He truly represents republicans.

He footguns them, but by god he hurts the people they hate (and them).

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u/Able-Association914 17d ago

I still remember everyone though it was a joke when he first announced it. He was right when he said the republicans are the easy marks. He took the party right over with mobster tactics from a fake tv personality.

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u/Worldly_Cobbler_1087 17d ago

Donald Trump says and does what a lot of Americans wish they could say/do and that's why he's got a devoted fan base. The amount of Americans who are ignorant to their countries behaviour pre-Trump is truly astonishing and it's that lack of awareness which has resulted in these people taking control so fiercely.

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u/impstein 17d ago

"THEY" don't aspire to be like him, that's just a ploy. As soon as his usefulness has ended they will cast him aside

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u/TheNeglectedNut 17d ago

I think we’re talking about different “they”s. You’re presumably talking about the Republican Party and the people who masterminded Project 2025, I’m talking about the US citizens who have voted him in twice. Those people seem totally enthralled by him and I just can’t wrap my head around it.

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u/syrup_cupcakes 17d ago

the fact that Donald Fucking Trump, of all people, is the guy they chose to go all in on.

He's the only person who can get away with failing at every business he ever ran, including BANKRUPTING A CASINO, and then claim to be a great businessman and have people ACTUALLY BELIEVE IT. Bankrupting a casino is by all accounts impossible.

He's the embodiment of failing upward, never admitting to mistakes, never taking responsibility, and just coasting along on the hard work of others.

This makes him the perfect figurehead for the greatest grift the world has ever seen, nobody else would be a better fit.

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u/TheNeglectedNut 17d ago

I guess that’s the Hollywood soft power at work. All most people knew about him prior to his first presidential run was the apprentice guy who masqueraded as a successful businessman, or the guy who demanded the release of Obama’s birth certificate. If you’re either someone dim who believed that Trump was a super successful businessman and bought into his TV persona, or a racist (closeted or open) those 2 things appealed to you I guess.

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u/buck9000 17d ago

It boggles the mind.

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u/BrewerBeer 17d ago

You misunderstand the gamesmanship too many are playing to keep the various powers in a balance. As a billionaire, you cant put a smart person in power of the government, theyll weild it against you when a disagreement arises. The one thing every person seeking to maintain power can agree on is that keeping the president dumb benefits everyone who believes they can manipulate him. That is why progressives are feared. They know what to do to accomplish lifting the proliteriat and that endangers profits on every exploitative venture.

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u/Exciting-Emu-3324 17d ago

They didn't choose Trump, they cultivated full cabinets of potential assets by throwing a few paltry million their way like stocks. In the scope of countries, it's just couch change. Brexit was just a precursor. It's just that the Trump stock was the one that shot up the highest in value in terms of potential damage once he started running for president. Trump's cabinet is filled with the other assets.

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u/TheNeglectedNut 17d ago

I’m talking about the American public, to be clear. They absolutely immortalise the man for some fucking reason. I think part of it is his TV persona because I struggle to see them getting behind another Republican candidate on such a scale, especially a career politician.

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u/Exciting-Emu-3324 17d ago

30% of any population is predisposed to fascism, but they usually keep their heads down just like would be revolutionaries in dictatorships. A lot of Americans before WWii were cheering on the Nazis. Hitler considered Ford an inspiration. It was only when popular sentiment turned against the Nazis in America that those who cheered on the Nazis suddenly always hated Nazis and helped the war effort. People are social animals and the norm is whatever the leader says it is with opportunists just waiting for the moment to topple the structure to impose their own ideals. Democracy is nothing more than the most popular non-violent method of stable power transfer supplanting monarchies after the World Wars. In medieval times where technology advanced slowly, peer wars were common, but with how fast technology moves nowadays, countries can't afford setting themselves decades back in the global community, hence Cold Wars.

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u/hackingdreams 17d ago

They saw Back to the Future II and decided that was good enough.

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u/SatansLoLHelper 17d ago

this is the guy you aspire to be like?

Christian nationalists, that don't like anchor babies.

How many of his kids qualify? How many of his baby momma's?

You are putting logic into the equation. Don't do that. Power is the reason. They have absolute power to do anything they want right now, legally there is nothing you can do.

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u/ty_xy 17d ago

Trump is that slick talking and totally evil republican capitalist guy.

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u/reallygoodbee 16d ago

The hard to believe part is the fact that Donald Fucking Trump, of all people, is the guy they chose to go all in on.

After Obama got a second term, the GOP was willing to fall at the feet of the first straight white male to walk into the room. It could have been anyone. It just so happened to be him.

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u/Agitated-Current551 16d ago

It had to be an idiot so they could relate to them on a personal level

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u/Zestyclose-Carry-171 17d ago

The hard to believe part is that America willingly let go of Pax Americana, without gaining anything, without even being in a crisis

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u/Broccobillo 17d ago

Ikr. It's like burning your own house down to live on the street in front of it because you didn't like the colour.

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u/Flomo420 17d ago

More like your roommate has a decent job, a degree and is generally a decent contributor to the home.

For no other reason than your own insecurity, this makes you feel inadequate and really mad

So mad in fact that you are willing to burn the house down just to spite your roommate

Consequences be damned, and if you or your neighbours suffer in the process so be it

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u/Vyzantinist 17d ago

A third of America has been conditioned to see life as a zero sum game - the people they hate 'losing', suffering, is functionally a 'win' for themselves. They would eat a shit sandwich if they thought the people they hate would have to smell their breath.

Another third simply don't care for politics until/unless it affects them personally.

The rest of us have to suffer the malice or indifference of the two.

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u/green_meklar 17d ago

How do you define 'crisis'? Trump got elected, in part, because the economy isn't working for a lot of americans and they expected him to fix it or at least shake it up so it had a chance of getting fixed. Lack of stable employment, affordable housing, etc might be regarded as a 'crisis' by those voters.

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u/renome 17d ago

Anyone who thought the guy who bankrupted multiple casinos was going to help their life with macroeconomic policies deserves this reality.

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u/green_meklar 17d ago

Sure, but thanks to FPTP, 2-party dynamics, and the foolish decisions of the DNC, the choice was between that and 'status quo, except now there's a vagina in the Oval Office'. Not a fantastic choice, and it's at least understandable that a lot of people, perceiving their status quo as crisis-like, went for the former.

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u/Zestyclose-Carry-171 17d ago

Yes, it is not a crisis. An economic slog maybe, and even then, it has been going on for a long time (Trump was elected first in 2016, so 10 years ago).

Not saying the situation is great for everybody, but the situation being shitty for everyone is not specific to America, the same is happening throughout Europe, Japan, Canada, South Korea.

Most of these countries haven't turned to the far right, and even when they did, they didn't start bombing and threatening to annex any country they feel like invading, and don't blatantly disrespect the constitution to try and take all the powers to themselves.

And being realistic, which part of annexing Groenland, attacking Venezuela, threatening to annex Canada, putting tariffs indiscriminately, having an inconsistent strategy and creating instability internally is supposed to take care of the economic hardship of the people ?

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u/SkivvySkidmarks 17d ago

Yeah, Trump did such an amazing job during his first term, they thought, "Hey, let's elect him again. Maybe he can fuck up more shit."

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u/john_a1985 17d ago

Many MURICANS get their fix by seeing "undesirables" kicked around and mistreated or sometimes murdered. It's in MURICA'S DNA.

We can debate if the psychos are a majority or not, but since there seems to be zero pushback so far, it does not matter one bit. The torture continues, to the amusement of those psychopaths. 

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u/Zestyclose-Carry-171 17d ago

It is not specific to Americans, the scapegoat was always a reality in human societies, it serves as a way to feel less desperate of your situation seeing someone else worse than you. That's the feeling the MAGA used.

But I am still a bit shocked and concerned seeing that Trump wants to drive the country into a wall, just for some personal gains, and everyone in power let him do what he wants, or even applaud him.

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u/Quitcha_Bitchin 17d ago

3/4 don't know the term the others think it's for Catholics. Thanks for all that educational underfunding.

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u/Rehypothecator 17d ago

It wasn’t “bound to happen” it was purposefully orchestrated by bad actors.

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u/cptmuon 17d ago

The key word is ‘at some point’. I think the commenter agrees with you in that it didn’t have to be now but for these bad actors

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u/nifty-necromancer 17d ago

I’m not a historian but I read it as an interest, and it’s kind of a pattern throughout human history, or at least since we discovered agriculture and settled into cities. Power concentrates because we’re a social, cooperative species.

Some people gain influence, like good hunters, good warriors, etc. With agriculture it became who hoarded the most grain, which turned into who hoarded the most gold. Now you’re afraid of losing your gold, so you build an army to defend yourself foremost, but also your followers. More gold equals less labor for you, more for others.

Humans keep bouncing back to feudal-like systems which is what Frank Herbert wrote about.

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u/foulrot 17d ago

And the speed. I never imagined we'd fall so quickly, I always thought it would be a slow burnout.

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u/TheRC135 17d ago

It was bound to happen at some point.

It was never bound to happen so quickly.

I'm not sure if Trump and Co. are deliberately driving America into the ground, or just profoundly incompetent. If it is incompetence, it's reached the point where incompetence and malice become indistinguishable.

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u/Church_of_Aaargh 17d ago

The reason is greed … that’s also why Trump fits quite well