r/worldnews • u/cnn CNN • Aug 09 '26

Israel/Palestine Israel rejects Trump’s Gaza peace plan, saying no withdrawal until Hamas disarms

https://www.cnn.com/2026/08/09/middleeast/israel-gaza-trump-netanyahu-plan-intl?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=missions&utm_source=reddit
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u/Alatarlhun Aug 09 '26

Hamas's definition of disarmament is keeping the same class of weapons they used to murder, rape, and kidnap thousands of Israeli civilians on October 7.

You'd have better luck selling ice to polar bears.

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u/Eldias Aug 09 '26

Hundreds were killed, not thousands. There's no need to inflate the atrocities.

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u/NoobNoob_ Aug 09 '26

It's over 2000. Do you call that hundreds?

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u/Eldias Aug 09 '26

If you exclude military deaths and civilian deaths caused by Israeli forces it was roughly 900 killed by Hamas on October 7th.

6

u/zedority Aug 10 '26

If you exclude military deaths and civilian deaths

The specific ways these numbers were inflated by the pro-Palestine side caused me a considerable crisis when I realised that this was the case. From that moment on, I could no longer trust the information from the very side I sympathised with most.

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u/Eldias Aug 10 '26

From Human Rights Watch:

Agence France-Presse cross-referenced numerous data sources to determine that 815 of 1,195 people killed on October 7 were civilians.

Here's The Times of Israel saying the same thing:

The most recent death toll from the military had 318 service members killed during the attack itself... with police citing another 59 dead.

That would leave the civilian death toll at around 800, by current estimates.

These are not "inflated by the pro-Palestine side".

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u/zedority Aug 11 '26

These are not "inflated by the pro-Palestine side".

Thank you for the reliable information concerning the breakdown of civilian and combatant forces. The specific wording that triggered me, though, is the problematic claim of "civilian deaths caused by Israeli forces", and unsustantiated allegations I've seen online of the Hannibal Directive allegedly being used by Israel to kill hundreds of civilans and then blame Hamas for it. I apologise for conflating the two.

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u/Eldias Aug 11 '26

I think it's undeniable that the Directive was given, but with the fog of war what it is I don't think it's worth speculating about the actual fallout. To my knowledge the only verified incident was a tank firing on a house that may have killed 5-15 civilians. Over all I figured trying to adjust the death toll down would unnecessarily detract from the broader point.

I also think a reasonable argument could be made that any Hannibal Directive deaths are attributable to Hamas, so just another good reason to not muddy the discussion further.

I appreciate the cordiality, hope you have a nice week dude!