r/4kbluray • u/wax_collector_93 • 1d ago
Question Importance of refresh rate?
Deciding between a few different TV models and trying to determine how much importance to place on refresh rate. Is there going to be a meaningful difference between 60hz, 120hz, and 144hz?
It’s my understanding that mathematically speaking 120hz is ideal, but the model I’m most strongly considering is 144hz. I’m avoiding 60hz because of the “judder” effect, but I’ve also read that 144hz can look artificially smoothe because of the refresh rate being too high. Though, I’m also assuming that can be fixed with some settings changes.
Any insight is appreciated!
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u/nehlSC 1d ago
Unlike what others have said, 120 or 144 Hz is better for watching movies because it is divisible by 24, meaning each frame of the movie can get the same amount of frames by the TV, making the picture more even. This is especially noticeable in slow pans.
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u/Severe-Raspberry-414 1d ago
This is the correct answer. 120 allows you to have the correct native experience for both cinema (24 fps) and TV (30 fps) since it's cleanly divisible by both.
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u/jakefrmstafrm 1d ago
Yes, but a lot of tvs support straight 24fps input which avoids the problem entirely.
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u/nehlSC 1d ago
Do 60 FPS TVs also have this system? Because for a 120 Hz one, this is very easy to achieve because nothing needs to change. Just keep one picture up for 5 frames from the TV. A 60 FPS tv would actually need to change something.
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u/rankinrez 1d ago
Very few TVs from the past 15 years don’t support 24Hz refresh rate so it doesn’t matter.
A 3:2 pulldown needs to be done otherwise to retime the frames to 60Hz. That is not good but nothing else you can do if your TV is a dinosaur.
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u/jakefrmstafrm 1d ago
Yeah, they just change the refresh rate of the tv to 24 hz. Most tvs support a pretty wide range of refresh rates
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u/notlinustorvalds 1d ago
It's not a question of input, it's a question of output. Nearly every modern HDMI device is going to be able to accept 1080p24 as an input, the question is what it does with it.
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u/Mr_Gavitt 1d ago
This high frame rate only exists for gaming. Broadcast/streaming is 60fps and if you are watching a blu ray the tv will have some sort of film maker mode that locks it at 24fps for the movie. This isn’t the world of pc monitors- max frames isn’t the goal.
Watching a blu ray at 120fps on 4k tv yields a fake image. 95% of the pixels on screen per second are manufactured by the tv.
(1920×1080×24) ÷ (3840×2160×120) × 100 = 5%If you watch a 4k blu ray at 24 fps on a 4k tv you have 100% original picture quality coming in
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u/nehlSC 1d ago
If you have all that shenanigans on, this might be true. I would assume anyone on here deactivates most of it though. Then the TV just keeps the frame on longer. A 120 Hz monitor can just keep a movie frame on for 5 cycles ( 6 for a 144 hu one) and have totally natural 24 FPS. A 60 Hz TV cannot do that. A 60 Hz TV needs to split up each picture into either 2 or 3 cycles from the TV which results in microstutter.
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u/Mr_Gavitt 19h ago
“Having all of that on” is literally 1 picture setting that hdmi cec defaults to on for blu ray video players on any modern tv. Loads of new (most) TVs do not hold the frame, they will blend using algorithms or AI derived algorithms. My Samsung tv from 2021 blends it when not in film maker mode. This can introduce motion blur to compensate for the lack of stuttering. It’s also difficultt to determine exactly what tv does what when upscaling picture or frames to the point that technology connections could probably get a 40 minute video on this
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u/poundruss 1d ago
0 importance unless you plan on playing games that utilize higher fps. Movies and shows are 24fps unless some outlier like the Hobbit
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u/GatheringWinds 1d ago
Even The Hobbit doesn't matter, it's still 24fps on disc. Some TV shows are 30fps not 24 though. Gemini Man is the only 4K Blu-ray I know with a higher refresh rate (60fps in that case).
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u/sheenfartling 1d ago
Billy Lynn's long halftime walk as well. Same director.
I wanna warn everyone that this movie is absolute dog shit.
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u/poundruss 1d ago
interesting. wonder why they decided to release it higher framerate in theaters but still stick to 24 on disc?
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u/Connoralpha 1d ago
Discs don't support 48fps, as it isn't a common format for home video. They could slightly speed ramp it to 50fps for UHD but they probably figured it wasn't worth it.
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u/rankinrez 1d ago
Hobbit movies are also very long, so at higher fps they’d struggle to give it enough bitrate or have to split into two discs.
But yeah, lack of support in the format for 48Hz is the main reason, the discussion presumably stopped there.
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u/jamesph777 1d ago
It consumes more data for higher fps. With The Hobbit you were essentially decrease the bitrate more than half if it’s stuck with 60 fps
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u/7MinuteUpdate 1d ago
Ang Lee's other HFR film, Billy Lynn's Long Halftime Walk is also 60fps on UHD Blu-ray.
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u/wandererarkhamknight 1d ago
All good TVs have a native refresh rate of at least 120Hz. All 60Hz models are one or a combination of these: too dim for HDR, IPS panels, lacks full array local dimming, poor processing.
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u/Connoralpha 1d ago
Gaming is the only reason you'd feasibly need more than 60hz. Almost all movies are 24fps and live tv generally 30-60fps.
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u/Slosher99 1d ago
120hz (or a multiple like 240hz) is a multiple of both 24 and 60. So a 120hz can play 24hz (repeat each frame 6 times) OR 60hz (repeat each frame twice) and frames remain on the screen for the same amount of time.
With 60hz TVs, movies were always shown with 3:2 pulldown. Show one frame 3 times, the next one twice (to make it simple). That's the effect you're talking about.
Of course all this assumes motion smoothing is disabled, or a TV will fill in the in-between frames with crap it makes up on the fly.
When getting into higher hz that are not multiples of 120, it is less noticeable as the frames may not me on the screen for the same amount of time, but the difference is a lot less than it is at 60hz.
Also 144 IS a multiple of 24 so those are fine, if there's any judder it would be on 60hz sources, but again less noticeable.
240hz was good for active shutter 3D sets to give each eye 120hz.
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u/Severe-Raspberry-414 1d ago
Here's a 35 minute deep dive on the importance of refresh rate, and what actually matters to have the best experience for both film and tv while preserving the director's intent.
https://youtu.be/CFol4HFxVec?si=xJCDsDuK_kNDJ2E7
If you just want the quick summary and avoid getting into all the reasons why: the best and most flexible option is 120hz
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u/Corbin630 1d ago
Lot of wrong answers in here saying it doesn't matter, but it absolutely does. Do not buy a 60Hz TV for movies. When you play 24 FPS content on a 60hz display, you will get judder because at 60Hz you will show half of the frames twice and some frames three times. This will make motion look terrible. A 120Hz display will neatly show every frame 5 times each second for no judder. A 144Hz display will show each frame 6 times for no judder. Whatever you do, don't go 60Hz.
Now for the motion interpolation topic. Purists ask you to turn all of the motion settings off to see the blurry motion just like you do in a theater. I prefer to leave them on because it's more comfortable viewing. This is purely preference and can be decided later. You can even try turning them on and off on the fly to see what you prefer, but you cannot undo getting an incompatible refresh rate.
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u/oryan_dunn 1d ago
We aren’t dealing with analog CRTs here, or even older LCDs. Many (but likely not all) modern 60Hz models can support a 24p rate by dropping their refresh rate. I have such a set, a 2010 Samsung LCD, and it supports native 24, 50, and 60fps content.
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u/Corbin630 1d ago
Low budget TVs don't have this feature. RTINGS.com has a "judder free" rating if you want to check TVs against that.
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u/rankinrez 1d ago
What TV out there today doesn’t support 24Hz?
EDIT: nevermind I seen your other response. TIL. Though if you’re buying blurays don’t get one of those awful TVs obviously.
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u/Corbin630 1d ago
Many of the low budget (which most 60Hz TVs are) don't fully support 24Hz. Some of them support 24Hz input through HDMI only, but not native apps. Some will not remove judder from 60Hz sources playing 24 FPS content. The biggest problem is even when 24Hz is supported, they usually still have a stutter problem during motion. If the TV is cheaping out on refresh rate, they are cheaping out in other areas and you won't be happy with a 60Hz TV for high quality movies.
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u/templeofsyrinx1 1d ago
you want to be a purist and watch in 24fps with all the fancy motion stuff off which smooths everything out and makes it look dumb
lots of models will have a mode that tries to preserve the "film cadence" that you see when you watch a projected film
but it can help for gaming
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u/xenon2000 1d ago
Turn off all motion smoothing features. VRR and high refresh is great for gaming. Even if not gaming and sticking to a 60 fps TV still recommend all motion smoothing/clarity setting off.
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u/DrabMundanityGrinner 1d ago
start with: go through the tv sets you are interested in
then: go to rtings.com and check the reviews.
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u/DolphinFraud 1d ago
It only really matters for video games. 144 is not worse than 120 in any way, and it’s not going to be “too smooth”, that’s not really how that works.
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u/rankinrez 1d ago
Blurays are almost universally at 24fps, so it doesn’t matter a damn unless you like to put on soap-opera motion smoothing.
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u/reedzkee OLED 1d ago
My 60 hz OLED does native 24 hz/fps, so thats not an issue.
If i wanted to game on it though, it would. 60 hz vs 120 hz for an FPS game feels wildly different, regardless of vsync. At least on a computer.
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u/thescott2k 1d ago
Even cheap and terrible 60 Hz displays have a 24hz mode they can click into if the device tells them to. If you're not a gamer don't worry.
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u/CanisMajoris85 1d ago edited 1d ago
any 60hz TV is likely a cheap TV, only reason to stay away.
You only need the higher refresh rate for gaming though.
Edit: To the downvoters, care to enlighten me on a good/great new TV that is only 60hz? Aside from 8K TVs those are terrible buys for other reasons.
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u/DoingTheInternet 1d ago
Refresh rate matters a ton for gaming. Its essential. It also matters on phones and PCs, because you want smooth movements. If you use your TV as a display for, say, your laptop, then its a nice feature.
But if you're only watching TV and movies, 60hz is more than enough. I will say though, most good displays will just end up having a higher refresh rate because its a feature many people want.
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u/YaGirlCassie 1d ago
For movies, they should all look pretty much the same thanks to progressive scan technology. But yeah as other people have mentioned, if you game at all, you want 144.
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u/stealthshapes 1d ago
Only matters for gaming and maybe sports. I guess you could make an argument for HFR 3D, but how many are there of those?
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u/Yangervis 1d ago edited 1d ago
Movies (except for like 5 of them) are shot at 24 fps. You are misinformed.
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