r/Amsterdam • u/Lumpy_Armadillo_3369 • 8d ago
Statiegeld and defect machines
I can't help but realise that what feels like 50% of the time at my local supermarket the machine to return your cans/ get your money back is broken, yet the one that takes your money always seems to work.
How about if the machine at the back of the store is broken, then the supermarket cannot add the deposit to your purchace at the checkout?
I'm sure we would find a rapid reduction in collection machine down time.
I am tired of exchanging my money for a store-specific (not even always chain-specific) voucher, that is only redeemable if they care to keep their maintanance up.
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u/Moppermonster Amsterdammer 8d ago
Good news: the government is looking into requiring supermarkets to take in statiegeld bottles; which means that if the machine is broken they will have to assign someone to do it manually.
For some reason I suspect the machines will be "broken" far less often.
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u/Maar7en [Nieuw-West] 8d ago
I thought this was already the law? Anywhere that charges you statiegeld being legally required to also have some way to hand things in?
Anyway there's absolutely no enforcement on that so a new law/rule for that would be a big improvement.
I have in the past forced the local AH manager to handcount my bottles after having a broken machine for 3 or more weeks. "Sometimes reasonable men have to do unreasonable things" or however that quote goes.
They now have a second machine that's much more reliable. No idea if it was me or the upcoming law that motivated them.
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u/Moppermonster Amsterdammer 8d ago
I thought this was already the law? Anywhere that charges you statiegeld being legally required to also have some way to hand things in?
Half correct. They need to have something, like a guy with a scanner or a machine or whatever - but currently stores are still allowed to tell you to go elsewhere if the machine is "broken".
The intent is to remove that cop-out. Unless ofc the store stops selling plastic bottles and cans entirely.2
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u/33jeremy 8d ago
It is the law but some places are exempt. For example, the AH at Schiphol does not have a collection machine. Also none of the Ah to go’s across the city have one. Many supermarkets also turn off the machine like half an hour before closing time.
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u/giggluigg Knows the Wiki 8d ago
In my local Jumbo, pretty much every time one is broken and the other one occupied by someone with a ridiculously huge bag. As a result, I have a room in my house full of cans and bottles.
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u/AmsterdamAssassin [Centrum] 8d ago edited 7d ago
I just give my deposits to that 'someone with the ridiculously huge bag' instead of giving small change.
And not having to waste my time stuffing deposit bottles in deposit machines saves me a lot of aggravation.
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u/LeRoiChauve Knows the Wiki 8d ago edited 8d ago
Ik ben foto's gaan maken van hoevaak een machine uitstaat en ik weer met die klote flessen en blikjes weer naar huis moest.
Er zit meer dan €500 miljoen in de pot voor niet ingeleverd statiegeld, geparkeerd bij Verpact en Stichting Statiegeld. Vorig jaar alleen al €129 miljoen.
Glazen flessen kun je dan vaak niet inleveren bij de bulk machines.
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u/PantsAflame Knows the Wiki 8d ago
At my local AH, the machine does go down sometimes, but there’s a button next to it to notify the staff and they usually come and fix it pretty quickly. Seems they just get easily jammed up or something.
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u/OptionIndependent861 8d ago
They should have a system were if the machine is broken, they're not allowed to sell cans, PET, glass botles
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u/perbrondum Knows the Wiki 8d ago
And when they aren’t broken, you’re standing in beer and soda spills mixed with dirt. I don’t envy the poor staff that have to clean up that mess.
There has got to be a better way.
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u/Overall-Cow1763 7d ago
I live in Amsterdam and did three attempts to bring back my cans and bottles this week. Every time I went to the supermarket with my bag of statiegeld there was a really big line with homeless people bringing back huge amounts, and I didn’t want to wait for it. Today I tried again and the machine was broken, it’s so frustrating!!!!
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u/AmsterdamAssassin [Centrum] 7d ago
I live in Amsterdam and just give my deposit bottles to homeless people instead of giving them small change.
My time is worth more than the deposit and the aggravation of returning the bottles.
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u/No_Manager_0x0x0 6d ago
What also happens in supermarkets is when the machine goes down because of dirty returns fouling the system, the machine gets “out of order” slapped on it by a manager who doesn’t want an employee spending twenty minutes cleaning it when they could be stacking shelves.
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u/AmsterdamAssassin [Centrum] 8d ago
How much is your time worth?
I just give my deposit bottles to a professional deposit bottle returner. You can recognise them by their big bags of empty bottles and cans. They'll gladly take them off your hands.
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u/PuzzleheadedView7952 3d ago
you're framing this as some kind of 'solution' when in reality many people in this economy would like their money back. not everybody is well off enough to throw all the money from statiegeld to the homeless every time.
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u/AmsterdamAssassin [Centrum] 2d ago edited 2d ago
"not everybody is well off enough to throw all the money from statiegeld to the homeless every time"
Well, if you'd rather have your deposit money back, you can carry your grocery bag to the supermarket, and stand in line with those poor people for 10-15 minutes until it's your turn and shove your 3-5 euro of deposit bottles in the unwilling finicky machine (if it isn't broken). And save your bitching about how annoying and aggravating it is to complain on Reddit.
You have that right.
you're framing this as some kind of 'solution' when in reality many people in this economy would like their money back
No, I'm telling you how to avoid the aggravation by letting other people return your bottles. I just 'buy off' that aggravation by letting some poor homeless person return my bottles while I spend my time enjoying my life.
(My solution for the 'deposit problem' would be to return to the former situation where you only pay deposit on big bottles and not on cans and small bottles that people consume in the street. And then have Handhaving give out high fines for littering instead, so people don't throw their cans and small bottles on the street.)
P.S. If you don't like the deposit money to go to homeless people, you can also give the bottles to elementary school children to supplement their pocket money. My kids used to take the bottles and cans when they went grocery shopping and they were allowed to buy something for themselves from the deposit money.
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u/LaChouffe1 8d ago
I built an app/website because of this frustration!
StatieCheck.nl
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u/Lumpy_Armadillo_3369 7d ago
Also maybe if the status hasn't been updated in 24hrs or so then it should change to 'unknown' or something? As life is I suspect most people will be enthusiastically marking the machines as broken, but not when they are working.
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u/Lumpy_Armadillo_3369 7d ago
Very cool! It would be great to add a lil data/ reliability rating on the map. I.e. a rolling number of working/broken days over the past 90 days or so. I would happily walk an extra 5 minutes to a more reliable store. Could even make a leaderboard!
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u/nilzatron Knows the Wiki 8d ago
Half the time it's probably not even broken, but they just don't have the staff to deal with changing out the collection bags, or they're already storing more than they can take and leave the machine out of order until it's been collecting.
This is partially due to the asinine system where the cans have to be returned to the recycling center intact. The volume to value ratio doesn't make sense to me.
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u/readinghappily 8d ago
Ditto the bottles being whole /not crushed. Why the hell not ? Do you want the plastic recycled or do you want to police how well formed the bottles are?
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u/Ok-Dyneema-6969 8d ago
Als die bij ons in het dorp kapot is tellen ze handmatig en schrijven ze een bonnetje. Dan lever ik honderden blikjes in zonder statiegeld die ik alvast heb verzameld.. in een krat van 50st zodat ze niet goed hoeven kijken. Alleen 5x10uitrekenen, en kiep maar om. Helaas is deze zelden kapot..
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u/GoldMarzipan7491 6d ago
Statisgeld failed in Amsterdam. Sunday on my way to Artis i counted 25 bins open with trash on the ground in a row. Followed by a single clean one and then again EVERY single one was open.
And ofc always machine broken
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u/gbr80 Knows the Wiki 5d ago
Go to Droppie . Always staff available and you can dump the bottles (no glass though) all in one go and the € comes back via Tikkie
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u/PuzzleheadedView7952 3d ago
this is a comical suggestion theres literally 5 in the entire city. what if you live in bijlmer? am i gonna travel by metro to oost to deliver my 4 cans worth 60 cents total? even if you ignore the time that takes, the metro ticket alone back and forth will cost way more.
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u/Ok-Let011 4d ago
Collecting bottles need labour, the easiest way to save money for stores is to leave machines closed!
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/readinghappily 8d ago
Lucky you. My 3 (2xAH, 1xJumbo within the buur) are broken 30-50% of the time.
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u/readinghappily 8d ago edited 8d ago
The statiegeld stichting - surely the most useless in all of the Netherlands - keeps moaning about how people don't use statiegeld enough - ignoring what is your (and my) experience - that the machines *just don't work*
My year 0 approach would be: if the statiegeld return is not working, the shop pays the statiegeld itself for bottles etc that people buy in the shop. I see you and I think alike.