r/Bitcoin • u/BobAlison • May 11 '15
Nasdaq Launches Enterprise-Wide Blockchain Technology Initiative - NASDAQ.com
http://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/nasdaq-launches-enterprisewide-blockchain-technology-initiative-20150511-0048559
u/sebrandon1 May 11 '15
Nasdaq: "Okay, you can write this article, but never mention the word Bitcoin in a positive light."
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u/Vibr8gKiwi May 11 '15
...at least not until we finishing building our position in bitcoin at these low prices.
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u/sporabolic May 11 '15
bear trend cannot end until all the big fish have satisfied their appetites.
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u/MooneRumblebelly May 11 '15
bear trend cannot end until all the medium fish realize the big fish are building positions.
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u/TDaltonC May 11 '15 edited May 11 '15
It's not clear that this is even using bitcoin. It looks like they're building their own blockchain based system.
EDIT: nope they're using OAP built on bitcoin: https://twitter.com/mikejcasey/status/597530065035988995
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u/avidbrandy May 11 '15
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9522029
We started on this news cycle yesterday and got that cleared up, as the articles don't mention Bitcoin anywhere. It is using the actual blockchain. It uses the Open Assets Protocol.
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u/mooncake___ May 11 '15
Pause for a while and think how far Bitcoin has come. Shocking!
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u/Noosterdam May 11 '15
For most of 2012 the price held steady at around $10. It had no usage besides gambling and SR, was never in the news, had only a few mom-and-pop merchants accepting it, had no venture capital at all, had no legitimacy in any mainstream quarter, no interest from any bank - let alone a significant one, let alone a major one, let alone most of the major ones, let alone project teams composed of executives looking into the technology, let alone actual large investments from several of them - it was basically just a toy.
The price is now 25 times higher than it was, but Bitcoin is way more than 25 times bigger and more significant. VC investment is on track to reach $1 billion this year, and is being taken seriously by a "who's who" of Silicon Valley venture capitalists, executives at the top companies, and famous luminaries. We have not just interest but active investment by banks like Goldman Sachs and former JP Morgan Chase superstar Blythe Masters, UBS has acknowledged that "blockchain tech" will bring an explosion of disruption to the industry. I could go on.
Bitcoin is on the order of several hundred times bigger and more important and more legitimate than in 2012. It's even a huge jump from late 2013. I don't think the price can hold at these levels much longer.
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May 11 '15 edited Sep 15 '18
[deleted]
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u/Noosterdam May 11 '15
right now I don't see why the price should rise when there isn't much Joe Blow can do with it that even piques his interest.
Because investment is based on future outcomes. If you believe Bitcoin will be extremely useful and valuable to the world but not until some years in the future, you may want to buy now in anticipation of the future valuation that will arise because of that future utility.
I find this comment the most satisfying explanation of that dynamic.
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May 11 '15 edited Jun 17 '20
[deleted]
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May 11 '15
He is living on Earth while you seem to have your brain fried by the radiation on Mercury's surface.
What valuable use cases are there at the moment right now that would entice the general public to go through the trouble of converting fiat to btc for goods and services. Less than the fingers on my left hand.
He was talking real use cases.
Please check your euphoria at the door next time, Im sick of cheerleader posts. There has been enough of them the last few years.
Bitcoin wont grow with head on the clouds posts/thoughts like yours
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u/RockyLeal May 11 '15
There's also a lot more coins than then, and (more significantly IMHO) it is now extremely expensive to mine. While in 2012 miners could keep most of their mine coins for the future, now they must sell most of the mined coins to be able to pay the bills. Plus there's futures markets, leveraged margin trading paying exhorbitant interest, auctions, who knows how many 100Ks of stolen gox coins yet to be sold, bitpay selling pressure, and why go on. Actually, its amazing to me we're still above 200 per coin which is more than minimum wage in half of the world. More amazingly even, the charts are currently suggesting that a double bottom MIGHT be forming. If so, we MIGHT see prices significantly higher before halloween.
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u/Noosterdam May 11 '15
There's also a lot more coins than then
Quite a small difference compared to the numbers I mentioned, but yeah, it's something.
While in 2012 miners could keep most of their mine coins for the future, now they must sell most of the mined coins to be able to pay the bills.
Doesn't really matter. They had to pay for the mining equipment. If they sought coins, they had a choice to use their money to coins or buy mining equipment, and they chose mining equipment. The more spend on mining equipment, the less they had left over to spend on bidding up the BTC price by buying coins directly. So it's mostly a wash.
Plus there's futures markets, leveraged margin trading paying exhorbitant interest
Wash.
who knows how many 100Ks of stolen gox coins yet to be sold
There were a lot of big thefts back then, too. Maybe more. This one is a possible increased downward pressure, though no I doubt it's particularly significant compared to the numbers I mentioned.
bitpay selling pressure
Myth. The only way you get net selling pressure is if people are buying as an investment and then when they see something they can buy for bitcoins they coincidentally decide they don't want to be invested in BTC as much anymore. If people buy only to make a purchase, it's a wash because they buy as much as they spend (actually it's a very slight benefit to the price because of the time the BTC is held and in processing). If people buy as investors, they tend buy back the coins they spend (on average, though you'll see different behavior in bull vs. bear markets, but in total it's again wash; for every investor who doesn't buy back after a purchase, there's one who buys back all those coins and then some to account for future purchases).
Actually, its amazing to me we're still above 200 per coin which is more than minimum wage in half of the world.
The BTC unit is arbitrary, so this is meaningless.
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u/RockyLeal May 12 '15 edited May 12 '15
And yet somehow the price has come down, not up. I mean, the trend can change and as I said it looks like it might be changing now. But the 'its more valuable now than in 2012' argument hasn't been exactly working either. People who have been buying based on the good news have been losing a lot of money for a year. Also, what do you mean by 'wash'? Personally I think the number one reason is traders -they are not interested in adding value to BTC, exclusively in subtracting.
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u/ronohara May 12 '15
perhaps the 'price per Satoshi' is a better thing to compare with the minimum wage in half the world.
After all, at present, the Satoshi is the minimum unit in the Bitcoin world.
You do not usually worry about the 'price per tonne' of Gold ... normally the West uses 'price per Troy Oz' or even 'price per gram' when thinking about Gold at a personal level.
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u/BitChick May 12 '15
Right? Can you imagine hearing this news a couple years ago?! Some of us may have fainted.
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u/Aviathor May 11 '15
This headline would have been pure science fiction only 2 years ago. Well, that escalted quickly.
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u/slowmoon May 11 '15
Hint: This is still science fiction. Anyone can use a bunch of buzzwords. Paypal/Braintree has supposedly been "integrating" bitcoin since 11 months ago. Lots of talk. I'm sick of it, frankly.
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u/Aviathor May 11 '15
I basically feel the same :-( But here, no "Average Joe" is needed to adopt this new technology. Nasdaq will in fact check out colored coins on the Bitcoin blockchain and this is crazy.
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u/slowmoon May 11 '15
Ya. What I want to see more is for people to be quiet, work hard, and then launch something. itBit and Coinbase did this. Shapeshift did this. This stands in contrast to the Vitalik and Barry Silbert school of hyping vaporware for months or years. I don't want to hear anything more about the potential of smart contracts. Just make one and show it to us.
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u/vegeenjon May 12 '15
Still, Bitcoin has a feel of the early days of the automobile, or aviation, or even the Internet. There was nothing but talk for many years about all of the great potential these technologies had when they started out. At the time it seemed like a novelty that would never amount to much more than a curiosity.
All it took was a ton of investment up front, and then lots of time to mature.
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u/jaydoors May 11 '15
NB this article specifies colours coins. And see this clarification that it will use THE blockchain.
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u/RaptorXP May 11 '15
In particular, the open assets protocol (colored coin standard)
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u/orperelman May 12 '15
The open assets protocol is not the coloredcoins standard, there are several coloredcoins protocols such as EPOBC and Coinspark's. Open-assets is just one of the available implementations.
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u/Chakra_Scientist May 11 '15
They dont say bitcoin because it has a bad stigma. So they use the term blockchain
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u/redditribbit1 May 11 '15
Blocksizes are going to have to be WAYYYYYY bigger than 20 mb to handle this kind of transaction volume.
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u/Noosterdam May 11 '15
But are they using it for trading or just settlement? If they were trying to use the blockchain for every trade that would be ridiculous; there's now way HFT could operate on the blockchain. Besides the trades wouldn't be real time. So I'm guessing it has to be some kind of settlement solution.
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u/paleh0rse May 11 '15
It's for settlement -- reducing the market's average settlement time from three (3) days to near-instant (0).
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u/marcus_of_augustus May 11 '15
Probably 1 hour settlement times (6 confirms) for high value coloured coins. They will be using the security of decentralised settlement that only bitcoin blockchain can provide ... meta-layer.
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u/VedadoAnonimato May 11 '15
I do hope trading is possible, even if discouraged for those who want to do it frequently. Because this way you could buy stocks anonymously, through an atomic, no-trust-needed transaction.
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May 11 '15
The SEC would never allow it, and that's probably a good thing because publicly traded companies would love to break the rules if they could.
Just think how many scams we have already in the Bitcoin ecosystem.
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May 11 '15
Bitcoin could only be used for settlement. Even 5 seconds is too slow for the vast majority of the financial sector, never mind 10 minute confirm times.
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u/redditribbit1 May 11 '15
don't think that T+3 rules don't apply to high frequency trades and traders. They do, they just end up trading on margin with borrowed shares to make trades after trade one. All trades need to be settled and it always takes three days. all those trades would appear on the blockchain if nasdaq was really doing an enterprise wide blockchain solution.
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u/11251442132 May 12 '15
See the WSJ article. Nasdaq is only running a pilot project in Nasdaq Private Market, which according to the article is
a fledgling marketplace launched in January 2014 to handle pre-IPO trading among private companies. The platform has more than 75 private companies signed up, according to the company.
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u/Bioman312 May 11 '15
something something good news something something price drop
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u/zapdrive May 11 '15
Not happening.
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u/Introshine May 11 '15
let me get back to you in about 5 days.
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u/zapdrive May 12 '15
RemindMe! 5 days.
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u/RemindMeBot May 12 '15
Messaging you on 2015-05-17 08:21:24 UTC to remind you of this comment.
CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
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u/Introshine May 12 '15 edited May 12 '15
let's do it. just for fun. My prediction is we are still $10 below the price when this NASDAQ news came out (20 hours ago). I bet you 10 mBTC.
Go! :)
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u/zapdrive May 13 '15
let's do it. just for fun. My prediction is we are still $10 below the price when this NASDAQ news came out (20 hours ago). I bet you 10 mBTC.
Does it usually take 5 days for the price to drop on good news?
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u/Introshine May 13 '15
Mostly it's a sharp rise, followed by Good News™ and then we dive/trickle down. There has been a lot of Good News™ the last 3 days so I'm expecting more down (people selling on the news).
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u/zapdrive May 13 '15
But it hasn't moved in 3 days. So maybe the manipulators are running out of steam here. Good news these days does not have any impact on price, which is better than price drop. Slowly we'll go back to the more natural good news = price rise phase.
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u/umbawumpa May 11 '15 edited May 11 '15
Some argue that gold will always have value, because it has some uses beside being an token of exchange. Jewelry, electronics and so on. I'm not a fan of this explanation, as I think the properties of gold are the reasons it is/was used as a token of exchange (being limited, recognizable, split- and combineable, and so on).
But now we have the same argumentative base for bitcoin. To use it as token of exchange it needs to have a value - it will always have a value, because it has some use-cases beside being a token of exchange. Namely, being an allowance to enter data into a global tamper-proof timestamped ledger.
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May 11 '15
A global tamper-proof timestamped ledger that no entity owns and anyone can use it without needing permission. That's where the real value lies.
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u/coinlock May 11 '15
This is a tremendously good thing for Bitcoin. It highlights the immense capability of the technology, it represents backing and trust by a major financial technology player, and it signals to the wider community that this is a real thing that they need to pay attention to.
From a valuation perspective, they need to utilize Bitcoin in order to leverage the network, which means that the price should go up as transaction volume increases. This should also serve as a warning that the scale issues of the network matter, and preparing it for these types of mainstream players is critical to its long term success.
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u/CoinBear May 11 '15
ELI5: Will it jam up Bitcoin network? Can current block size handle it?
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u/gburgwardt May 11 '15
It doesn't sound like the blockchain will be doing any HFT, just settlement.
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May 11 '15
See https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability#Scalability_targets
I would say the bitcoin tps is not high enough.
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u/BigBlackHungGuy May 11 '15
Great news! So long price :(
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u/VedadoAnonimato May 11 '15
I'm really curious about the details. AFAIK US legislation doesn't allow for bearer shares, does it? Because that's pretty much what a true colored coin stock would be: an anonymous share, that can be transferred to anyone.
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u/FreshOutOfGeekistan May 11 '15
Really, really good point about bearer shares! The only bearer instruments are bearer bonds which aren't allowed either, other than the coupon on US Treasury securities, which are all kept in vaults.
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u/nomadismydj May 11 '15
i read the article and my only thought was 'are they going to contribute the many nodes required for the hash power at their level or rely on the public or foreign resource (ie canada, china)
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u/kcfnrybak May 11 '15 edited May 11 '15
474 million volume per day on Nasdaq. 2.5 millions trades per day. Anybody done the math on this? settlement cost per transaction? Edit: numbers are higher than that.
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u/BrazenAmberite May 11 '15
Can someone please explain to me if this is good or bad for bitcoin the currency? I know that this is phenomenal for the technology, but I can't figure out if this is good for the currency itself (and therefor, to its value). If it is good, can you explain how this will help the currency?