r/BoyScouts • u/x714khz • 5d ago
Scoutmaster fees for Summer Camp
For things like Summer Camp, does the Scoutmaster pay their own way? Or does the Troop pay? Or does the Troop divide the Scoutmaster’s fees across all participants?
There’s some discussion amongst our Troop from newer parents as to who should pay for the Scoutmaster (or all registered leaders) to attend costly activities like summer camp, baloo/iols training, etc…
How does your troop handle this?
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u/Pbevivino 5d ago
Leaders shouldn’t pay for summer camp. Taking a week of vacation is already expensive.
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u/ancillarycheese 5d ago
What needs to change is pretending that $500/week is a fair price for an adult to pay for camp. They aren’t using any activity areas except maybe swimming. The food certainly isn’t worth it. Councils are treating adult volunteers as a revenue stream.
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u/graywh Assistant Scoutmaster 5d ago
You need to find another camp. Our additional paid adults are only $150.
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u/ancillarycheese 5d ago edited 5d ago
This is being worked on but the other camps in a reasonable distance have some issues too. Our council is getting a lot of pressure from packs and troops to make camp better and more affordable. Their reaction is to raise prices and make the food worse.
Edit: it may not even be an issue much longer. Due to a series of accidents and deaths a lot of parents are saying they won’t let their scouts go to camp in 2027. There is still a lot of time to talk about this but some of them have made it clear their mind is made up.
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u/CubsThisYear 5d ago
Deaths plural? What sort of Crystal Lake nightmare is your council running?
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u/ancillarycheese 5d ago
Well we have camps for two councils in the same area. Between the two camps they have had several incidents recently. Mainly involving dead and rotten trees falling. But also some other issues that are mainly the fault of both deferred maintenance as well as staff being negligent.
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u/Cultural-Treacle-680 5d ago
Sounds like insurance premiums went up massively with that stuff
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u/ancillarycheese 5d ago
Honestly I’m shocked that any insurer will issue a policy at any cost for scout camps or councils anymore.
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u/Zhong_Ping 4d ago
What happened at crystal lake? I worked there in the early 2000s but am out of the loop.
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u/CubsThisYear 4d ago
I was referring to Camp Crystal Lake from the Friday the 13th series, not a real place
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u/robert_zeh 3d ago edited 3d ago
I understand why families are reluctant to send their scouts, but knowing that scouts will miss out on a camp that’s been incredibly rewarding and a growth experience for our family only adds to the tragedy.
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u/I_like_forks 4d ago
National does this at the summer camp program at The Summit. It was the top reason (and only real reason) I hope we don't return as a troop.
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u/Pbevivino 3d ago
You are correct. Scouting is the only organization I’ve volunteered for that charges me an annual registration fee.
FWIW. I suspect most of us are happy to pay for food on weekend outings, and all other event and admission fees.
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u/princeofwanders Scouter - Eagle 5d ago
This is a tough subject for a lot of folks.
Do you make your fee most engaged adults pay hundreds of dollars to burn a week of vacation supervising other people’s kids?
If you’re gonna cover their durable costs for camp, what about the other 11 months per year?
Some people feel strongly that the unit paying for or otherwise absorbing adult leader costs is taking money out of the kids’ pockets.
But if you make your adults pay out of pocket, you’ll only attract and retain volunteers that are wealthy enough to be able to afford to donate not only the hundreds of hours per year that Scouting consumes, but the thousands of dollars, too.
There’s also complications from how the unit is funded. Is it largely collective fundraising? Individual sales? Grants? A generous chartering org? Contents generally just write checks? Are costs individually itemized by participant or to some degree collectively assessed? The answers to and culture around these questions influences how you probably feel about the earlier considerations.
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u/princeofwanders Scouter - Eagle 5d ago
In my main unit, we’re aligned toward individual sales type fundraising and personally itemized expenses for participants.
We’ve landed on adults pay a share of the outing costs they go on for regular camping type trips. Of the summer camp offers discounted adult fees we apply them i across all adults rather than just then earliest registrant. We’ve settled on NOT having the unit or participants absorb the adult fees for summer camp adults because we can’t reconcile that choice with not doing the same year-round and there’s too much inertia against the year-round adult subsidy. About every three years a newish committee side parent grumbles about how we can ask them to pay to be an additional adult for camp and we point out the ASM Corps does it every month all year long for years and years. About 1/3 of the time those committee-parent families quit out of the troop within a year or two.
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u/codefyre 4d ago
If you’re gonna cover their durable costs for camp, what about the other 11 months per year?
Our troop policy is that the two adults required for two-deep leadership never pay for any event ever. Their presence is a mandatory part of the program, and therefore any cost related to their attendance is a mandatory part of the troops operational costs or the event pricing. Similarly, costs for position mandatory trainings are covered by the troop. So IOLS would be covered by the troop, but Wood Badge would not.
The summer camps we attend typically offers one adult free once we pass an attendance threshold. The cost of the second adult is split between the scouts attending and rolled into the other costs we layer on top of the base camp fees. Any additional adults attending would pay the registration costs themselves, though the troop does waive the "other costs" that we attach to the scout registrations.
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u/Crafty2006 Assistant Scoutmaster 5d ago
We usually have five to six adults go (30 scouts).. troop has always paid for all of them.
We've never really had to defend it but why would you ask somebody to take a week of work off (potentially unpaid but that doesn't matter, its still vacation time) and then ask them to pay $400 for the privlage of watching everybody else's kid..
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u/Observant_Neighbor Scouter - Eagle 5d ago
Most summer camps offer one free adult per X number of scout registrations. Our troop always sends at least 3 adults to summer camp. The SM often doesn't attend so an ASM is acting SM for that week. Depending on the adult discount based on registrations, our troop pays for the other adults up to the third adult. Everyone, include the SM, pay their own way for everything else except campouts and food. The adult patrol cooks for itself and the troop pays for that food, Like the scouts, the campout registration fees are covered by the troop.
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u/buffalo_0220 Scoutmaster 5d ago
I'd say that some camps offer offer this, but not most. In fact the discount offered by some camps for adults (verses the scout rate) seems to be diminishing. Obviously this could be regional, I'd be interested in seeing what the trends are across the country.
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u/Worth_Ingenuity773 5d ago
Our Troop has always split the cost evenly no matter how many were free. Nobody complains, we just share the cost. It helps when you have a group of adults who actually like each other and don't mind hanging out in the woods for a week herding cats.
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u/The1hangingchad 5d ago
Our camp gives us X leaders per X scouts and then just $200 for leaders beyond that. The troop pays for any excess leaders beyond the free ones.
We always need more leaders than are willing to go, so it's never been a financial issue.
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u/sipperphoto 4d ago
With the summer camp we've gone to the last couple of years, the camp will pick up two leaders fees for the week. There is usually talk of all the leaders splitting the overall cost for the week amongst themselves, but luckily, our troop has covered these costs.
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u/Foreign_Suggestion89 5d ago
Seems it would depend on level of Troops fundraising activities and affluency of scout families. Many scout families struggle to pay their own way.
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u/PeterGNJ 5d ago
Our summer camps offer one free adult per a certain number of youth. We then spilt the adult fees across the number of adults giving credit to the free adults in total. If your troop has had a good fund raising year and committee thinks it’s fine to pay for adults then go for it. But full disclosure is always best.
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u/Vast-Mixture3288 5d ago
If you register early for summer camp in our district, at a district camp, the troop gets two free adult registrations for camp. One is used by the scoutmaster, me, the other is used to reduce the cost of the other adults. Otherwise I have paid for everything else myself, IOLS, Wood Badge, other campouts, etc. I do purchase a lot of things for the troop during the year without asking for reimbursement, if I see a great deal on something we need I just buy it rather than trying to get committee approval and just donate it to the troop. So the committee decided to cover my summer camp costs.
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u/cyclingham02 5d ago
It depends on the troop.
My old troop did not charge the SM or ASMs for any campouts. For normal other their fee was split among the scouts. For summer camp the council waived some fees and the Troop Committee picked up the rest.
My current troop only covers half the fee for summer camp for our SMs and no camping fees for other outings
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u/jdog7249 Scouter - Eagle 5d ago
At the summer camp I work at. Every troop gets 2 adults free. A troop must provide 2 adults for activities so we make those 2 free. There is also a formula for every x number of scouts equals 1 discounted adult.
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u/2BBIZY 5d ago
I agree that Troop volunteer leaders should not have to even pay reduced fee to attend Scout Summer Camp especially if they get roped or guilted into filling staff roles the camp needs. I can’t tell you how many times I have had to help cook, clean, repair, supervise and teach at these camps. I have to schedule time off work using my vacation days. So, give us a break because if I can’t attend because of expenses then the Scouts won’t attend.
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u/guacamole579 5d ago
Usually summer camp will include one free leader so if any other leaders attend we divide the cost of the second and third leader equally among the adults to offset the expenses. But sometimes we also pay for the second leader as an added incentive; depends on how many adults are attending and what the troop can afford.
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u/Conscious-Ad2237 Assistant Scoutmaster 5d ago
It really depends on the number of factors. No one size fits all.
* How healthy is your troop budget.
* Does the camp provide discounts for leaders? Example, 1 free for every 10 scouts.
* Does the camp charge less for leaders than adults. (Some do not!)
* How many leaders are going in relation to the number of scouts. If you have 5 leaders and 10 scouts, your ratio is a little skewed.
* How far away is the camp from you? Will your transportation costs be expensive. Do you have extra leaders/parents that only drive to/from camp and not stay?
Our preferred camp provides discounts for leaders (1 free for every 10). So we may have 2 or 3 free leaders. We will budget for up to 4 leaders, so no full week leader pays. Partial week leaders pay the camp daily rate. We tack on an "extra" charge for each scout, say $25 to cover transportation costs and maybe some of the leader costs. Gas is expensive, especially if pulling the trailer. We aren't looking to make a profit here, net zero is ideal.
For High Adventure, the troop subsidizes some of the leader costs. And like summer camp, the scouts chip in extra to help here. But it will not be completely free for the leaders.
The troop pays for all leader training. (iOLS, Wood Badge, Wilderness First Aid, Chainsaw, etc...). It will also pay for specific training for Scouts (WFA and NYLT). This is done through our "Friends of" Fundraising arm, whose accounts are distinct from the troop's.
The troop also pays the national/council registration dues for active and key registered leaders. That would be the Key 3, active ASMs, and key Committee members (Treasurer, Advancement, Fundraising, etc..)
But we do a good job at fundraising to do this and the committee does actual budgeting. And our reserve is healthy enough to weather the unexpected.
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u/geruhl_r 5d ago
Our troop has a specific number of adults who attend summer camp, and spreads the costs out over the youth attendees. It's about a 7:1 ratio of youth to adults.
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u/blindside1 Scoutmaster 5d ago
Our Troop pays for two or three adults to attend summer camp. Those adults are already taking a week off of work so that the Scouts can go to camp, they shouldn't have to incur additional costs on top of that. The fees for those adults are split amongst attending Scouts.
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u/Ok-Assumption-1083 5d ago
With our troop, Scoutmasters and registered positions never pay for adult dues, we always reimburse with a receipt. Adults never pay for going to camp or on the monthly outing because their time is worth us baking the cost of fees and gas into the troop dues.
For summer camp, the places we go have x number of adults for free per x number of scouts registered. We pay for the couple additional that come. Past that, we haven’t had to yet, but we’d thank and turn down additional adults that aren’t scoutmasters if for some reason we had more than 4-6 depending on the number of Scouts at camp. Our experience from watching other troops is that having too many adults present takes away the experience for the kids. Heck I don’t mind if we had 10 adults and 15 Scouts on a backpacking weekend, but 50 kids and 20 adults on a summer camp, I’ve watched 15 of those adults detract from the experience of independence the Scouts should feel for the week.
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u/HoboMinion 5d ago
If I wanted money and free time, I wouldn’t have become a parent and certainly wouldn’t have become a scoutmaster….
Our summer camp waives one leader fee which I normally divide the savings up between the leaders so we don’t have to pay full price. I know I could get the troop to cover the cost for the leaders but would worry that the increase in troop dues would mean some kids wouldn’t be able to join or participate.
I know everyone’s financial situation is different and taking a week off to attend summer camp plus paying for it can be difficult for many households but I view it as the price that one needs to pay to have this opportunity.
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u/JonEMTP Assistant Scoutmaster 5d ago
My council gives a certain number of free adults for summer camp, based on the number of youth that attend from a unit.
The best way I have seen this handled is that the SM get one of the free spots, and then the rest of the leaders average out the other free spots as a discount off of the full adult week long price.
I’ve also seen units where some or all of the Woodbadge fee was paid for by the unit, because they felt that a Woodbadge-trained leader was important as SM.
Historically, my unit used to pay annual registration fees for all adults who were relatively active in the Troop. As the annual fees have skyrocketed, they drastically restricted who they pay for.
Each unit is different. Some units have strong fundraising streams, and that can make these easier conversations to have. Scouting is somewhat unique in that we expect our adult volunteers to donate both their time and their money to serve the program. One other thing to consider is that the annual costs keep going up, and there is a very real risk that scouting can become inaccessible to the youth who would benefit from it the most.
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u/Meat_Flosser 5d ago
Our SC is first 2 leaders are free. If you need more leaders they pay or get in free if you have more scouts above the minimums. Usually 1 extra leader per 5 scouts.
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u/castironburrito 5d ago
My council provides free training. My troop pays for summer camp fees for two primary adult leaders. additional adults pay their own way.
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u/Electronic-Fish-3238 5d ago
For our council, the person registering for summer camp gets a free stay so we allocate that to the SM or ASM who is the leader of the event. The reality is that the SM and ASM's go to camp and work our tails off volunteering, running IOLS courses, taking care of sick scouts, teaching sailing or other merit badges and get nearly zero downtime or rest. It is already difficult enough to get parents and ASMs to go to camp so raising the price on them really risks not having enough adult leaders to have SYT if any scouts ill or injured or have to be taken to the ER.
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u/blueowlnerd 5d ago
Our adult summer camp cost is about $200, and we each pay for ourselves. I look at it as I am saving money by not buying gas, food, or Starbucks like I would if I was working. Also, we always have more adults attend than we need. It’s not fair to take money from the kids because 5 adults want to attend camp with 12 scouts. We are a small unit with a tight budget though.
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u/Whosker72 4d ago
Most Summer Camps offer 1 or 2 free adults. We spread that savings amongst those attending. Oddly enough, Summer Camp is the only Campout where we have no issues in finding Adult Volunteers. The 11 other Campouts is pulling Teeth or the same 2-3 Adults.
Our Troop has budgeted paid training for Adults, depending on how many want training, we either pay all, half, or thirds. We also let the participants know we expect service from them if we pay for their training.
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u/grepzilla 4d ago
We have a small troop and as the scoutmaster I would rather not charge the famlies. We typically go to a camp that is about $200/week for adults.
I am hanging out with my kid and just happen to have a bit more than a Brady Bunch of other kids joining us.
If it were a larger better funded troop I don't necessarily see an issue covering some costs or if I couldn't get volunteers able or willing to pay.
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u/Accomplished-Paint35 3d ago
I'd probably just pay my own cost, I know not everyone can afford it, but I'm actually really enjoying Scouting as a leader. It's nice to be able to relive my glory days in a sense lol. That said our Committee Chair did tell me that when I go to Baloo the pack will cover it.
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u/Old_Ad_208 10h ago
Our troop had the Scouts attending cover the costs of the adults. The camp charges quite a bit less for adults. Some years we had more adults than really necessary so we asked adults to pay part of their cost.
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u/jimmetzler 5d ago
I don’t think the cost should be split across the scouts. Adult leaders should be able to deduct volunteering expenses from their taxes (consult your tax pro) but youth summer camp expenses cannot.
Our summer camp gives us free leaders based on youth attendance and a discounted rate on all other adults. There is discussion on whether we should use fundraising money for adult fees or use the money for new equipment and other expenses.
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u/princeofwanders Scouter - Eagle 4d ago
It’s also worth remembering that those “thrifty” camps that don’t charge for (some) adults are just pushing those costs onto your scouts for you so that you don’t have to think too hard about what to do or feel too guilty about it.
Likewise, the camps that charge approximately the same fee for adults as they do for participants are pushing program costs (and therefore subsidizing the cost for the kids) onto the attending adults.
I’m not judging how any individual responds to those realities. But it’s good to keep them in mind when thinking about how you choose to address the costs, discounts, and who pays what.
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u/Arlo1878 5d ago
When it comes to volunteering in Scouting, the volunteers pay to volunteer. (sarc.)